Will Proc Sets Ever Crit Again in PVE?

GrumpyDuckling

It's tough to want to use proc sets in PVE knowing that a "normal" set bonus that affects all of my abilities will give better damage. Like, why would I use Velidreth once every 10 seconds unless I'm getting the chance (because crits aren't even guaranteed) at a massive damage spike?

I understand that the sky was falling in PVP when proc sets could crit, but could we maybe just slap the non-crit of proc sets onto battle spirit, or something, so we can enjoy them more in PVE?

Qbiken

The blanket nerf to all proc sets was un-needed in my opinion. Not the end of the world but un-needed. ZOS however learned from community response later on and started to treat/change each set individually instead of nerfing all sets at once..

My guess is they won´t revert the changes unless some major overhaul is done in the future.

Danksta

I still get my best damage with proc sets.

Beardimus

Yep they weren't cool in PvP, still aren't really however they were also way too OP for PvE, it's easy enough as it is and as above best damage is already with proc sets so this is not needed

ak_pvp

Yeah, it'd have to be PvE only though, dealing 6k+ skorias would be sure to irritate some.

Qbiken

Beardimus wrote: »

Yep they weren't cool in PvP, still aren't really however they were also way too OP for PvE, it's easy enough as it is and as above best damage is already with proc sets so this is not needed

A lot of PvE builds has stopped using damaging proc-sets in PvE as well, especially on the magicka side. For magDK, magsorcs and magplar the following is a very strong setup:

5 Julianos or BSW (BSW)
2 Slimecraw (Better for vMA but in some raidscenarios your healer can´t have 100% uptime on combatprayer)
3 Willpower (Jewels)
Perfected Asylum Inferno (which in my opinion overperforms a little) frontbar
vMA lightning/inferno backbar.

itsfatbass

I still run Ilambris on my mag sorc and parse highest with it. They are 100% still viable and while the crit nerf was kinda over the top, it doesn't need to come back now either.

SmellyUnlimited

Crit nerf was needed. The damage ‘potential’ was too high with a crit. Players should have the opportunity (or ability at least) to provide a defense when they’re being attacked. Proc (PRogrammed Random OCcurence) has high damage because it is based on a % that it will go off. That RNG damage at 1and a half (I.e. crit damage) was beyond what was typically capable of players to even hope to mitigate. Add TWO proc sets, and you had basically no defense once they went off.

SmellyUnlimited

This is coming from an NB that maliciously used two proc sets in PvP lol.

WatchYourSixx

I think you've got this all backwards. Back when proc sets could crit, it was a significant dps loss if you didn't run them in PvE. Now most builds still benefit the most from proc sets because it's free dps, but running 5/5 armor is now no longer so far behind monster helms. Now, I will agree that there aren't any 5pc proc sets that deal damage that are worth wearing, but monster helms are still tops for Stam and mag builds alike.

I think overall they've been pretty well tuned since one Tamriel.

SmellyUnlimited

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

I think you've got this all backwards. Back when proc sets could crit, it was a significant dps loss if you didn't run them in PvE. Now most builds still benefit the most from proc sets because it's free dps, but running 5/5 armor is now no longer so far behind monster helms. Now, I will agree that there aren't any 5pc proc sets that deal damage that are worth wearing, but monster helms are still tops for Stam and mag builds alike.

I think overall they've been pretty well tuned since one Tamriel.

I think we just have a misunderstanding. When the community at large talks about proc sets, they are not talking about monster sets. Unless specifically mentioned, topics on proc sets traditionally refer to the 5-piece variety. Just FYI.

Qbiken

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

I think you've got this all backwards. Back when proc sets could crit, it was a significant dps loss if you didn't run them in PvE. Now most builds still benefit the most from proc sets because it's free dps, but running 5/5 armor is now no longer so far behind monster helms. Now, I will agree that there aren't any 5pc proc sets that deal damage that are worth wearing, but monster helms are still tops for Stam and mag builds alike.

I think overall they've been pretty well tuned since one Tamriel.

I think we just have a misunderstanding. When the community at large talks about proc sets, they are not talking about monster sets. Unless specifically mentioned, topics on proc sets traditionally refer to the 5-piece variety. Just FYI.

Monster sets go as proc-sets as well. In total there´re around 65-70 sets in the game that could be considered "proc-sets" (aka having a certain % chance to occur when a condition is applied)

Masel

They don't need to crit anymore...some might need to be tweaked up a bit (sheer venom, flame blossom for example), but in general they are fine.

What bugs me is that every update, help of the sets they introduce are proc sets that are useless for endgame players. Sets like defiler, unfathomable darkness and mad tinkerer might look funny, but that's about it. Other than that they are really bad...

We need more group support sets for magicka players in general. New healer sets so they don't run around with the same stuff for the next ten years, tanks also need sets they can wear to support a magicka only group or magicka players can wear them so they buff other magicka players, especially magicka dks, magicka wardens and magplars need that.

For example a set that gives you and five other players a certain amount of spell critical when using ab ability that costs magicka, or a set that boosts elemental or magical damage taken by the target, stuff like that.

O_LYKOS

We'd like it to come back, but unless they can separate it from pvp I don't see it happening. It would cause another uproar if they implemented it as a whole again.

Bobby_V_Rockit

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Crit nerf was needed. The damage ‘potential’ was too high with a crit. Players should have the opportunity (or ability at least) to provide a defense when they’re being attacked. Proc (PRogrammed Random OCcurence) has high damage because it is based on a % that it will go off. That RNG damage at 1and a half (I.e. crit damage) was beyond what was typically capable of players to even hope to mitigate. Add TWO proc sets, and you had basically no defense once they went off.

Actually, proc is shorthand for procure, as in “when X occurs, procure Y for Z seconds”... for example, when dealing damage, Stormfist has a 10% chance to PROCure a thunderfist, dealing 2013 shock damage, etc. its not an acronym.

Eyesinthedrk

They could give proc crits back. Everyone in pvp is wearing impen anyway. In my opinion, this was one of the most out of touch, missing the mark nerss ZOS ever made.

WrathOfInnos

I would like to see these sets crit again in PVE. It would be nice if proc sets in general could scale on character attributes. Weapon/spell crit would be good, as well as crit damage. I would be in favor of having proc sets affected by weapon/spell damage and max resources as well. Damage effects should do more damage when used by a DPS build than a tank.

I think the PVP nerf was a step in the wrong direction. Especially since crit is much less important in PVP than PVE (with all the impen and damage shields). The lack of scaling also helped create the heavy armor PVP craze. With crit, Skoria was best with light armor and Velidreth was best with medium armor. Without crit, none of the armor passives affect proc damage, so proc + heavy had no downside.

Now that most of these sets have a delay or warning for PVP, they could probably be made to crit again with little effect. If that's a problem, maybe just make this change in PVE (but the devs don't seem to like separating the two).

Overall there are a lot of fun sets (flame blossom, nerieneth, ashen grip) that have been pretty much useless since the crit nerf, let's bring them back!

ArchMikem

The only reason proc sets were nerfed to no longer crit, was everyone complaining about Vipers.

ONE set, caused the across the board nerf. All because vipers was instant damage. Now though its a DoT proc, so essentially, the problem was fixed AFTER the supposed solution went into effect. Vipers no longer a gankers crutch, but PvE is still punished.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Crit nerf was needed. The damage ‘potential’ was too high with a crit. Players should have the opportunity (or ability at least) to provide a defense when they’re being attacked. Proc (PRogrammed Random OCcurence) has high damage because it is based on a % that it will go off. That RNG damage at 1and a half (I.e. crit damage) was beyond what was typically capable of players to even hope to mitigate. Add TWO proc sets, and you had basically no defense once they went off.

Actually, proc is shorthand for procure, as in “when X occurs, procure Y for Z seconds”... for example, when dealing damage, Stormfist has a 10% chance to PROCure a thunderfist, dealing 2013 shock damage, etc. its not an acronym.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Proc

WuffyCerulei

Since the proc sets that were a huge pain in pvp(Viper, Selene's, Velidreth, Red Mountain, Infernal Guardian) were nerfed, there really hasn't been a huge issue with proc sets. The overall crit nerf could probably be removed with this. If any other sets become an issue after that, they can be individually dealt with.

Marabornwingrion

My skoria can hit in trials for 20k, but still I think that nerf was painful and unnecessary for PvE.

DarkAedin

Im for a FULL REMOVAL of damage proc gear from the game. Most of it was put in to help bad players keep up with good players, but backfired bc good players can use the sets as well. To a higher degree of efficiency.
Relying on gear to do the damage for you is toxic to a game both pve and pvp. Especially one like eso where u need to be actively blocking and dodging, most proc dmg sets are "invisible" damage.

Mister_DMC

Are you guys nuts? The tears for proc set nerfs were overflowing! It was completely necessary triple stacked proc sets were a broken, uncounterable disaster. It made for terrible gameplay. Now as far as PvE is concerned, it had to go as well. 600k VMA scores were powered by proc sets, and yes I know that it's possible to still achieve that but but through more skilled gameplay. Pretty much every build in pve still uses a Monster set, which is still quite strong despite not being able to Crit.

DPS as a whole is still up this patch and it's possible to hit 40k+ on every class. I'd say that balanced. Proc sets are still very strong but now not the ONLY option, they were overtuned and Zos made the right choice.

Reverb

The proc sets were undoubtedly a sore spot for PvP'ers, but they were also overperforming in pve. When my 3 of the top 4 items on my trials damage report were because of what I'm wearing and not what I'm doing, that's a problem. That was happening before the nerfs. It was time for a change, the sets should not go back to critting.

GrumpyDuckling

Reverb wrote: »

The proc sets were undoubtedly a sore spot for PvP'ers, but they were also overperforming in pve. When my 3 of the top 4 items on my trials damage report were because of what I'm wearing and not what I'm doing, that's a problem. That was happening before the nerfs. It was time for a change, the sets should not go back to critting.

I disagree because you're ignoring the non-problem sets when you say that procs should not go back to critting. A change could have simply been longer cooldowns between procs (for specific sets that were overperforming). We didn't need a blanket nerf to all proc sets that harmed the lesser sets which need a proc to be decent.

SodanTok

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

The proc sets were undoubtedly a sore spot for PvP'ers, but they were also overperforming in pve. When my 3 of the top 4 items on my trials damage report were because of what I'm wearing and not what I'm doing, that's a problem. That was happening before the nerfs. It was time for a change, the sets should not go back to critting.

I disagree because you're ignoring the non-problem sets when you say that procs should not go back to critting. A change could have simply been longer cooldowns between procs (for specific sets that were overperforming). We didn't need a blanket nerf to all proc sets that harmed the lesser sets which need a proc to be decent.

While true, you are aware that if by some chance ZoS noticed this thread and changed it back it would be the exact same thing? Just enable crit and back to overperforming proc sets.

They might aswell just increase damage of the bad proc sets now and keep this non crit property of proc sets.

Zagnut123Zagnut123

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

It's tough to want to use proc sets in PVE knowing that a "normal" set bonus that affects all of my abilities will give better damage. Like, why would I use Velidreth once every 10 seconds unless I'm getting the chance (because crits aren't even guaranteed) at a massive damage spike?

I understand that the sky was falling in PVP when proc sets could crit, but could we maybe just slap the non-crit of proc sets onto battle spirit, or something, so we can enjoy them more in PVE?

Veli is still the preferred set for pve so idk why your mentioning that specifically.

Vaoh

Masel92 wrote: »

They don't need to crit anymore...some might need to be tweaked up a bit (sheer venom, flame blossom for example), but in general they are fine.

What bugs me is that every update, help of the sets they introduce are proc sets that are useless for endgame players. Sets like defiler, unfathomable darkness and mad tinkerer might look funny, but that's about it. Other than that they are really bad...

We need more group support sets for magicka players in general. New healer sets so they don't run around with the same stuff for the next ten years, tanks also need sets they can wear to support a magicka only group or magicka players can wear them so they buff other magicka players, especially magicka dks, magicka wardens and magplars need that.

For example a set that gives you and five other players a certain amount of spell critical when using ab ability that costs magicka, or a set that boosts elemental or magical damage taken by the target, stuff like that.

^ Yes

Legit exactly what I’ve said for awhile lol. Plz ZOS