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Why play a stamblade?
krachall
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Let me start by saying that I've been playing stealthy, rogue-type characters in MMOs/RPGs for over 20 years. Laugh at my lack of variety if you will, but that is, literally, the only character archetype that I enjoy playing. I played a stealth archer in UO, a rogue in EQ, an infiltrator in DAOC, a rogue in NWN, a rogue in WoW, a Rogue in DDO, and rogues in a slew of single player games as well. Again, it's all I like.
So even though ESO has low, almost-non-existent walls around character archetypes, I chose a stamblade. I played solo to the about CP200 before realizing how low my DPS contribution was. I was, I freely admit, a HORRIBLE DPS stamblade. My first check on a targeting dummy was around 4k. But I found a couple good guilds, some good players to help, and a I practiced. I practiced a ton and still do. I'm happy to say my skeleton dummy DPS is in the mid-20s and I've pulled 29k on several trials bosses.
But when I hear about what mag-based classes are doing, I wonder why the hell someone would want a stamblade in their group, let alone play one. That is, of course, unless you're like me and are going to play the class regardless of performance.
When I look at mag sorcs and magblades and magDKs, I see a huge list of advantages. First, even the newest player with basic crafted gear and a 3-button rotation can pull 25k DPS. But the ones I run with are posting numbers WELL above that. 40k? 50k? 90k?? Yes, I've hears a mag sorc claim he pulled 90k in a trial fight I was in. I contributed 16% of the DPS in that fight and he was almost 4x my DPS.
Second, mag players don't die, stam players do. Ok, that's obvious hyperbole but the advantage of DPSing from range is massive. Combined with the fact that mag players can keep up DPS as the boss moves around and it's almost a joke to play a melee dps.
Finally, mag players all seem to have shields and heals. They solo stuff that my stamblade can't survive for 15 seconds. With flimsy cloth armor and a magic stick, they are the most survivable characters in the game.
When compared to a stam DPS, a mag DPS has it all. There is no tradeoff. There is no balance. Higher damage and higher defense? in 20+ years of MMOs, that's a first.
So...I caved. I built a magblade, donned the dress and the magic stick. Leveled to 50 during the Halloween XP event and gave it a try. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....breath..breath....ROFLMAO......mwahahahahah. Are you kidding me?
With purple seducer armor, blue Mother's Sorrow jewelry, a destro staff, and three, yes, THREE skills, I soloed my first dungeon, solo'd every dolmen I could find, and was pulling high 20s DPS. THREE BUTTONS! My stamblade requires perfect execution of 11 skills and months of practice to get me to 25k and my magblade does it with no practice and three skills.
Well, I gave it another test. I jumped into vMA with my stamblade who is wearing all gold gear. After 15 tries, I cleared Stage 1. I then switched to my magblade. I made it through Stage 4 with those same three skills + the shield that you get from light armor. I died to each boss a couple times but only stopped at Stage 5 because I ran out of time. Again, a magblade with no backbar and a player who hasn't studied anything past Stage 1, made it to Stage 4 on his first try....and probably could have gone further.
Now I understand why I join a trial and it's only the tank and me who aren't carrying a staff.
While this didn't intend to be rant, it certainly ended up as one. So I'll change direction and ask the key question:
What does a stamblade DPS bring to a trial group that a mag-based character does not?
Edited by krachall on December 18, 2017 8:38PM So even though ESO has low, almost-non-existent walls around character archetypes, I chose a stamblade. I played solo to the about CP200 before realizing how low my DPS contribution was. I was, I freely admit, a HORRIBLE DPS stamblade. My first check on a targeting dummy was around 4k. But I found a couple good guilds, some good players to help, and a I practiced. I practiced a ton and still do. I'm happy to say my skeleton dummy DPS is in the mid-20s and I've pulled 29k on several trials bosses.
But when I hear about what mag-based classes are doing, I wonder why the hell someone would want a stamblade in their group, let alone play one. That is, of course, unless you're like me and are going to play the class regardless of performance.
When I look at mag sorcs and magblades and magDKs, I see a huge list of advantages. First, even the newest player with basic crafted gear and a 3-button rotation can pull 25k DPS. But the ones I run with are posting numbers WELL above that. 40k? 50k? 90k?? Yes, I've hears a mag sorc claim he pulled 90k in a trial fight I was in. I contributed 16% of the DPS in that fight and he was almost 4x my DPS.
Second, mag players don't die, stam players do. Ok, that's obvious hyperbole but the advantage of DPSing from range is massive. Combined with the fact that mag players can keep up DPS as the boss moves around and it's almost a joke to play a melee dps.
Finally, mag players all seem to have shields and heals. They solo stuff that my stamblade can't survive for 15 seconds. With flimsy cloth armor and a magic stick, they are the most survivable characters in the game.
When compared to a stam DPS, a mag DPS has it all. There is no tradeoff. There is no balance. Higher damage and higher defense? in 20+ years of MMOs, that's a first.
So...I caved. I built a magblade, donned the dress and the magic stick. Leveled to 50 during the Halloween XP event and gave it a try. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....breath..breath....ROFLMAO......mwahahahahah. Are you kidding me?
With purple seducer armor, blue Mother's Sorrow jewelry, a destro staff, and three, yes, THREE skills, I soloed my first dungeon, solo'd every dolmen I could find, and was pulling high 20s DPS. THREE BUTTONS! My stamblade requires perfect execution of 11 skills and months of practice to get me to 25k and my magblade does it with no practice and three skills.
Well, I gave it another test. I jumped into vMA with my stamblade who is wearing all gold gear. After 15 tries, I cleared Stage 1. I then switched to my magblade. I made it through Stage 4 with those same three skills + the shield that you get from light armor. I died to each boss a couple times but only stopped at Stage 5 because I ran out of time. Again, a magblade with no backbar and a player who hasn't studied anything past Stage 1, made it to Stage 4 on his first try....and probably could have gone further.
Now I understand why I join a trial and it's only the tank and me who aren't carrying a staff.
While this didn't intend to be rant, it certainly ended up as one. So I'll change direction and ask the key question:
What does a stamblade DPS bring to a trial group that a mag-based character does not?
2
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Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"What does a stamblade DPS bring to a trial group that a mag-based character does not?"
Higher DPS
BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA10 -
krachall✭✭✭✭✭
✭"What does a stamblade DPS bring to a trial group that a mag-based character does not?"
Higher DPS
That's what I'm hoping. I'm certainly not there yet but I'm making progress every trial and every practice session on the dummy. But is it true? Is a stamblade's overall DPS at peak performance higher than a mag-based character? And does that difference outweight the lack of survivability and DPS drop when out of range?0 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And to think I just saw another topic proclaiming mag is vastly weaker to stam and needed buffs.
I love this forum. ESO reddit doesn't even compare."If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."9 -
serrintine✭✭With the exception of vet Asylum Sanctorium HM, stamina toons bring much higher single target dps to end game PVE content than mag toons. Stamblades are also the only class to leverage major slayer effectively in trials.
Soloing content on stamblade is hard yes, but they are perfectively able to shine in groups.1 -
krachall✭✭✭✭✭
✭And to think I just saw another topic proclaiming mag is vastly weaker to stam and needed buffs.
I love this forum. ESO reddit doesn't even compare.
In PVP? I read that too.
I think a quick take on stam vs. mag can be seen by looking at some experts take on vMA difficulty:
Easy:
Magsorc
Magblade
MagDK
MagTemplar
MagWarden
Hard:
Stamblade
StamDK
StamTemplar
Insane:
StamTemplar
StamDK
Pretty clear. And I wasn't ever talking about PVP in my post above.
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Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"What does a stamblade DPS bring to a trial group that a mag-based character does not?"
Higher DPS
That's what I'm hoping. I'm certainly not there yet but I'm making progress every trial and every practice session on the dummy. But is it true? Is a stamblade's overall DPS at peak performance higher than a mag-based character? And does that difference outweight the lack of survivability and DPS drop when out of range?
All stamina specs out damage their magicka counterparts, some by 10k DPS or more. I will admit though, if you're newer to trials it's probably better to stick with magicka until you get comfortable with your survivability. But yes, it is very much worth it if you can stay alive. My group runs 4-5 stamina depending on content.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭serrintine wrote: »With the exception of vet Asylum Sanctorium HM, stamina toons bring much higher single target dps to end game PVE content than mag toons. Stamblades are also the only class to leverage major slayer effectively in trials.
Soloing content on stamblade is hard yes, but they are perfectively able to shine in groups.
I drop an ult every other rotation on my stamplar, that gives pretty high uptime on major slayer.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."3 -
Tirps✭✭✭✭Dunno but at least I am pulling way more dps with stamina NB than anything else and i don't have any idea about the rotation, but in trade i feels rather squishy but isn't that why we got tank and healer in group right? So rest of group doesn't have to take all hits and its easier to stay alive?cp1k+ ( ´•౪•`)0 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »
That's my guess"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."1 -
serrintine✭✭"What does a stamblade DPS bring to a trial group that a mag-based character does not?"
Higher DPS
That's what I'm hoping. I'm certainly not there yet but I'm making progress every trial and every practice session on the dummy. But is it true? Is a stamblade's overall DPS at peak performance higher than a mag-based character? And does that difference outweight the lack of survivability and DPS drop when out of range?
Any stam toon can outparse a mag toon by 10k in trials. (Exception being vAS HM as I mentioned above). You have to learn to survive without a shield and to actively position yourself to keep up dps in melee range. The former is helped a lot by deadly cloak and both are improved with experience. It's a steeper learning curve is all.0 -
krachall✭✭✭✭✭
✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »
That's my guess
yeah, sorry, but I think it's easy to see the pattern but I'll simplify:
Magicka = easy
Stamina = hard
Regardless of class.
That help?0 -
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don't mind us we're just teasing. We understand the premise of your post.
Honestly OP, now that you discovered how much fun MagNB can be for PvE, I say play them both. Then, you can focus on learning mechanics the easy way, then graduate to the hard way with your stamNB. Once you understand the mechanics of the end game content for PvE, should make it easier to transition that from magNB to stamNB. Definitely keep playing both though.3 -
Hixtory✭✭✭✭And to think I just saw another topic proclaiming mag is vastly weaker to stam and needed buffs.
I love this forum. ESO reddit doesn't even compare.
IKR this is so funny.
Stamblades outperform even the magblades, the weaving for the spectrum arrow is easier. Maybe the skills or the rotation is what is wrong with what he is using. And I must add, stamblade with sets like war machine are extremely good, for self dps and group dps.
Maybe ask for help in forum, because even with no perfect rotation, basically using the same as any stam build my stamblade khajit pulls 33k easy in the dummy. Sadly I cant pass the 30k mark in magblade.0 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »Don't mind us we're just teasing. We understand the premise of your post.
Honestly OP, now that you discovered how much fun MagNB can be for PvE, I say play them both. Then, you can focus on learning mechanics the easy way, then graduate to the hard way with your stamNB. Once you understand the mechanics of the end game content for PvE, should make it easier to transition that from magNB to stamNB. Definitely keep playing both though.
This^
I've been a Templar player for the longest time, but I'm finding myself enjoying leveling a Mnb and Msorc during the event."If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."0 -
SoLooney✭✭✭✭✭with the exception of vas, stam arent as squishy as ppl think. deadly cloak is the big deciding factor. i feel almost as tanky as mag players with their wards
also those saying they are hitting high with their stamblades, u guys have major fracture and minor berserk in your kit, no other stam class has both of those besides stam warden but they arent hitting as hard a the other stam. in raid, none of that matters since it will be provided by tanks and healers and why you never see stamblades much in ejs game trials. stam dks and a stamplar are better optionsEdited by SoLooney on December 18, 2017 9:14PM0 -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And to think I just saw another topic proclaiming mag is vastly weaker to stam and needed buffs.
I love this forum. ESO reddit doesn't even compare.
In PVP? I read that too.
I think a quick take on stam vs. mag can be seen by looking at some experts take on vMA difficulty:
Easy:
Magsorc
Magblade
MagDK
MagTemplar
MagWarden
Hard:
Stamblade
StamDK
StamTemplar
Insane:
StamTemplar
StamDK
Pretty clear. And I wasn't ever talking about PVP in my post above.
vMA is different though, you need to be self-sufficient there. Magicka classes have the advantage of running shields (light armor skill) and heals (at worst with a Resto staff, otherwise with class based self-heals). Being good at vMA doesnt mean that class has an advantage anywhere else.
Stamina builds all have the highest damage ceiling with respect to their magicka counterparts though, this ceiling can be reached in trials with an optimised group. In 4-man groups its more even.0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
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When I look at mag sorcs and magblades and magDKs, I see a huge list of advantages. First, even the newest player with basic crafted gear and a 3-button rotation can pull 25k DPS.
LOOOOLLLL Magblade having a 3 button rotation, I wish. It's more of a dance than a rotationFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info2 -
krachall✭✭✭✭✭
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Maybe I’ll need a back bar in Stage 5 of VMA? Edited by krachall on December 18, 2017 9:32PM0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
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For insanely high burst.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade2 -
magictucktuck✭✭✭✭✭Sorry I only skimmed post but I saw you’re having vma struggles and just keep practicing. It’s always hard at first but it was the first char I got flawless on. Just know it’s solo you can’t run it exactly like you do in a trial, it’s not just max dps until you know what you’re doing in there. And then max dps will get the job done faster and easier when you know spawns and mechanics by heart0 -
serrintine✭✭with the exception of vas, stam arent as squishy as ppl think. deadly cloak is the big deciding factor. i feel almost as tanky as mag players with their wards
also those saying they are hitting high with their stamblades, u guys have major fracture and minor berserk in your kit, no other stam class has both of those besides stam warden but they arent hitting as hard a the other stam. in raid, none of that matters since it will be provided by tanks and healers and why you never see stamblades much in ejs game trials. stam dks and a stamplar are better options
You absolutely do see stamblades in end game PVE, especially if they run war machine. They are the only class capable of 40-50% uptime on major slayer without giving up their own dps or utility. Stamblades also keep up their own minor berserk 100% of the time. Good luck finding healers who can do that for you if you're not a nightblade. No other stam class has a powerful execute either.
The reason you don't see them as often as other stam classes is because war machine is hard to get and stamblade rotation is hard (and gets even harder with war machine ulting in the mix). But a good stamblade is a valuable asset to the team.1 -
PlagueSD✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stamblades are comparable to Feral DPS druids in WoW. Their rotation is one of the more complex ones to pull off.
1. FULL Rotation(Follow this rotation to stack as high uptime for hawks eye as possible)
Bar 2. Trap - (LA)Hail - Swap
Bar 1. (LA)Rending Slashes - (LA)Surprise Attack - (LA)Blade Cloak - Swap
Bar 2. (LA)Incapacitating Strike - (LA)Poison Injection - (LA)Caltropes - Swap
Bar 1. (LA)Relentless Focus Arrow - (LA)Surprise Attack - (LA)Surprise Attack - Swap
Bar 2. (LA)Trap - (LA)Hail - Swap
Bar 1. (LA)Rending Slashes - (LA)Surprise Attack - (LA)Relentless Focus Arrow - Swap
Bar 2. (LA)Leeching Strikes - (LA)Poison Injection - (LA)Caltropes - Swap
Bar 1. (LA)Relentless Focus BUFF - (LA)Surprise Attack - (LA)Surprise Attack
Note* Bar 1 = Dual Wield bar / Bar 2 = Bow Bar / (LA) = Light Attack
Bar 1(Dual Wield) - Blade Cloak - Relentless Focus - Impale - Suprise Attack - Rending Slashes - Flawless Dawnbreaker
Bar 2(Bow) - Rearming Trap - Leeching Strikes - Poison Injection - Endless Hail - Caltropes - Incapacitating Strike
Video demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dziavpt_4LU
For those of you wondering about Feral DPS rotation comparison, here you go:
1 -
ol_BANK_lo✭✭✭✭✭Let me start by saying that I've been playing stealthy, rogue-type characters in MMOs/RPGs for over 20 years. Laugh at my lack of variety if you will, but that is, literally, the only character archetype that I enjoy playing. I played a stealth archer in UO, a rogue in EQ, an infiltrator in DAOC, a rogue in NWN, a rogue in WoW, a Rogue in DDO, and rogues in a slew of single player games as well. Again, it's all I like.
So even though ESO has low, almost-non-existent walls around character archetypes, I chose a stamblade. I played solo to the about CP200 before realizing how low my DPS contribution was. I was, I freely admit, a HORRIBLE DPS stamblade. My first check on a targeting dummy was around 4k. But I found a couple good guilds, some good players to help, and a I practiced. I practiced a ton and still do. I'm happy to say my skeleton dummy DPS is in the mid-20s and I've pulled 29k on several trials bosses.
But when I hear about what mag-based classes are doing, I wonder why the hell someone would want a stamblade in their group, let alone play one. That is, of course, unless you're like me and are going to play the class regardless of performance.
When I look at mag sorcs and magblades and magDKs, I see a huge list of advantages. First, even the newest player with basic crafted gear and a 3-button rotation can pull 25k DPS. But the ones I run with are posting numbers WELL above that. 40k? 50k? 90k?? Yes, I've hears a mag sorc claim he pulled 90k in a trial fight I was in. I contributed 16% of the DPS in that fight and he was almost 4x my DPS.
Second, mag players don't die, stam players do. Ok, that's obvious hyperbole but the advantage of DPSing from range is massive. Combined with the fact that mag players can keep up DPS as the boss moves around and it's almost a joke to play a melee dps.
Finally, mag players all seem to have shields and heals. They solo stuff that my stamblade can't survive for 15 seconds. With flimsy cloth armor and a magic stick, they are the most survivable characters in the game.
When compared to a stam DPS, a mag DPS has it all. There is no tradeoff. There is no balance. Higher damage and higher defense? in 20+ years of MMOs, that's a first.
So...I caved. I built a magblade, donned the dress and the magic stick. Leveled to 50 during the Halloween XP event and gave it a try. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....breath..breath....ROFLMAO......mwahahahahah. Are you kidding me?
With purple seducer armor, blue Mother's Sorrow jewelry, a destro staff, and three, yes, THREE skills, I soloed my first dungeon, solo'd every dolmen I could find, and was pulling high 20s DPS. THREE BUTTONS! My stamblade requires perfect execution of 11 skills and months of practice to get me to 25k and my magblade does it with no practice and three skills.
Well, I gave it another test. I jumped into vMA with my stamblade who is wearing all gold gear. After 15 tries, I cleared Stage 1. I then switched to my magblade. I made it through Stage 4 with those same three skills + the shield that you get from light armor. I died to each boss a couple times but only stopped at Stage 5 because I ran out of time. Again, a magblade with no backbar and a player who hasn't studied anything past Stage 1, made it to Stage 4 on his first try....and probably could have gone further.
Now I understand why I join a trial and it's only the tank and me who aren't carrying a staff.
While this didn't intend to be rant, it certainly ended up as one. So I'll change direction and ask the key question:
What does a stamblade DPS bring to a trial group that a mag-based character does not?
A. Nobody got 90k dps in a trial on any character
B. Stam brings dps...good Stam DKs are in the 60k+ range on test dummies, usually a little less in trial situation
C. Stamblades have the highest burst dps, but are usually used for PVP, not trial PVE.
D. No stam was used for the longest time, because although they had high single target dps, they were too squishy and lacked the big AOE dps. Much of this was changed when ZOS boosted Deadly Cloak and categorized more dungeon damage as AOE.
E. Stam is more difficult in vMA, but the stamblade has also hit 600k like their magic counterparts
F. Play whatever you enjoy, but if you ever want to be in an end-game trials guild (not sure you do), you will have play what fits the meta at the time3 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
krachall✭✭✭✭✭
✭How the hell does killers blade hit for 58k on a practice dummy? Mine hits for 30k max and only 39k in a trial!0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
...for the challenge?Why play a stamblade?
...because it amuses me?
And most of all...
...because it made the most sense for my characters backstory!
Yeah, I fully agree, stamblades are ther most difficult class to handle, and magblades may vie with magplars for the title of "easiest"... but so what?
If everyone played the "easy" classes... think of how bored we'd end up being! 0
