Which is better.

Lestorn

So I'm resetting my character's skills and going assassination(stamina) this time around, instead of Shadow(Magicka).

So I have the following questions In the long run, as I do both PvE, and PvP(Recently) is it better to have Penetration, Raw Crit damage, or to boost the damage of my Disease, Physical, and Poison damage.

Is it better to have higher Regen from heavy attacks for my stamina, or raw stamina regeneration?

And I'm just at an utter loss where to place my warrior points, as I am no longer a vampire. While I still feel like Elemental Guard is the best choice, I am beyond uncertain. If someone could please help me out, by giving me detailed answers for these questions, I'd GREATLY appreciate it.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

https://youtu.be/f1vXGrDcFQc

Watch that. Live that.

Morbash

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

https://youtu.be/f1vXGrDcFQc

Watch that. Live that.

/thread

Lestorn

Admittedly, I do NOT have the patience to watch this, because of how much he side tracks with the repeated "You could do this, but I'd suggest this, though you could still do this, but I still suggest this." thing that probably padded the time for this video by a good ten minutes.

I mean honestly how hard is it to say "Raw Crit over Penetration" so on and so forth. I don't need a long drawn out explanation of why it's better, I just want the flat answer.

Wizball1987

there isnt a flat answer..some builds are better in some situations

Lestorn

Wizball1987 wrote: »

there isnt a flat answer..some builds are better in some situations

I'm not worried about the build. That much I have figured out. I just have no clue what to do with my champion points as an assassin. This is why I'm asking simple questions like Crit damage or penetration. But where I'm REALLY confused as to what to do, is my warrior points. Is Elemental Defense really the best stat to dump into? What's the resistance cap?


Also, is there a hard crit cap like 75% crit(Not even sure if you can reach that high) Actually, if I had some numbers like hard or soft caps, I could go from there on my own. And every time I try to search it on my own, all I find is REALLY old posts or wikis that are LONG outdated, and likely useless. I'm talking so old, that it still refers to attribute overcharges.

Wizball1987

For offence stam builds you will need to fill out -The ritual-

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

So you want someone to just tell you want is best for you?

All right, you want at lest 10% from mighty, 17% from master at arms and thaumaturge, and at lest 17% from precise strikes in the CP system. That is the basic non optimalised stam setup that used till I put effort into the calculations.

Then you want to get to an overall 9k pen, either from sets or CP. You will need an add-on to see this number or actually add all sources up. You will be over penetrating in overland if you use suprise attack but in dungeons you will be fine.

For the red CP, you put 11% into Hardy and eledefender, then 16% into thick skinned and iron clad. Again this is the basic, covers everything evenly.

You want at least 30k stam. 17k health. 50% crit. 3500 weapon damage.


and my biggest concern is that you think that one skill line is for magic and the other is for stamina, the fact is that all the skill lines have something for both stam and mag and the fact you feel otherwise is worrying.

Lestorn

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

So you want someone to just tell you want is best for you?

All right, you want at lest 10% from mighty, 17% from master at arms and thaumaturge, and at lest 17% from precise strikes in the CP system. That is the basic non optimalised stam setup that used till I put effort into the calculations.

Then you want to get to an overall 9k pen, either from sets or CP. You will need an add-on to see this number or actually add all sources up. You will be over penetrating in overland if you use suprise attack but in dungeons you will be fine.

For the red CP, you put 11% into Hardy and eledefender, then 16% into thick skinned and iron clad. Again this is the basic, covers everything evenly.

You want at least 30k stam. 17k health. 50% crit. 3500 weapon damage.


and my biggest concern is that you think that one skill line is for magic and the other is for stamina, the fact is that all the skill lines have something for both stam and mag and the fact you feel otherwise is worrying.

Could you send me a friend request in game @Lestorn Please. I'd like to talk more with you about CP allocations and such, as well about what is and isn't feasible, with trying to be functional, without having to min/max.

LiquidPony

Lestorn wrote: »

Wizball1987 wrote: »

there isnt a flat answer..some builds are better in some situations

I'm not worried about the build. That much I have figured out. I just have no clue what to do with my champion points as an assassin. This is why I'm asking simple questions like Crit damage or penetration. But where I'm REALLY confused as to what to do, is my warrior points. Is Elemental Defense really the best stat to dump into? What's the resistance cap?


Also, is there a hard crit cap like 75% crit(Not even sure if you can reach that high) Actually, if I had some numbers like hard or soft caps, I could go from there on my own. And every time I try to search it on my own, all I find is REALLY old posts or wikis that are LONG outdated, and likely useless. I'm talking so old, that it still refers to attribute overcharges.

There's no cap on crit aside from 100%.

Personally not a fan of the video guides myself. Obviously Gilliam is a fantastic player who has forgotten more about combat mechanics in this game than most of us will ever know, but 45 minute videos just don't do it for me. I miss Jeckll, no one else produces a guide anywhere near as awesome as his was. I want to see spreadsheets and math and the like.

But anyway, as far as crit versus pen versus physical damage types ... there's really no one-size-fits-all answer. Even the most expert players can't give you a great answer, because it just depends on a lot of factors. What's your rotation look like? What race are you? What's your group comp? What content are you trying to run? You using dual daggers or a dagger and axe? What gear are you using? What food are you using? And so on and so forth.

With CP there's a lot of variables and ideally you'll do a bunch of parses and then let a tool optimize your damage CP for you (if you're not a console pleb like me).

I run mine (off the top of my head) something like:

Blue: 56 Mighty, 56 Precise Strikes, 56 Thaumaturge, 44 Master-at-Arms, 18 Piercing

Red: 49 Hardy, 49 Elemental Defender, 66 Ironclad, 48 Thick Skinned, 18 Spell Shield

Green: 75 Mooncalf, 65 Tenacity, 40 Tumbling, 37 Shadow Ward, 13 Warlord

I don't really change the Blue CP at all; I find it works pretty well for me in a variety of content, although it's not absolutely optimal for anything.

Red CP are highly variable. I make significant changes depending on content (e.g., incoming damage in Maw is very different from incoming damage in Sanctum; in Maw I load up on Elemental Defender and Spell Shield and pull points out of Hardy, for instance). I usually throw some in Quick Recovery for Maelstrom or DSA.

As far as Green CP ... just do what works for you. I find that significantly reducing stamina drains (blocking, dodging, breaking free) is worth far more than an extra 1% stamina regen or 2% extra stam returned from heavy attacks (and you get the Treasure Hunter passive all the time if you focus points in Tumbling/Shadow Ward).

For anyone actually interested in understanding how combat works under the covers in this game, I recommend Asayre's thesis on the topic, even if it's a bit outdated now: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/

Waffennacht

Lestorn wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

So you want someone to just tell you want is best for you?

All right, you want at lest 10% from mighty, 17% from master at arms and thaumaturge, and at lest 17% from precise strikes in the CP system. That is the basic non optimalised stam setup that used till I put effort into the calculations.

Then you want to get to an overall 9k pen, either from sets or CP. You will need an add-on to see this number or actually add all sources up. You will be over penetrating in overland if you use suprise attack but in dungeons you will be fine.

For the red CP, you put 11% into Hardy and eledefender, then 16% into thick skinned and iron clad. Again this is the basic, covers everything evenly.

You want at least 30k stam. 17k health. 50% crit. 3500 weapon damage.


and my biggest concern is that you think that one skill line is for magic and the other is for stamina, the fact is that all the skill lines have something for both stam and mag and the fact you feel otherwise is worrying.

Could you send me a friend request in game @Lestorn Please. I'd like to talk more with you about CP allocations and such, as well about what is and isn't feasible, with trying to be functional, without having to min/max.

That's an oxymoron. CP is there to min max, otherwise just do what you want.

Look at the abilities you use, are the DoTs or Direct damage, if you use more DoTs, put more points into thaumaturge.

Just want blanket defense CPs? Do equal amounts into Hardy/ele defender etc

R you Stam based or mag based? Put points into that stats Recovery Tree.

Boom all 3 colors

WatchYourSixx

Like others have said it really depends on what your wearing.

However if you want to know the actual math behind it, check out the pve damage calculation link above.

Another way you can go about it, is go to the uesp build editor, and play around with it's settings. You build a character up and then on the right hand side is your stats. Within the top set of stats there is one called effective spell damage or effective weapon damage. Those "effective" values aren't really particularly related to numbers you would pull, however they are an indication of the maximum theoretical spell or weapon damage.

The effective value includes crit, crit damage, penetration, max Stam or Magicka, your weapon damage, and your damage modifiers. You can swap out different gear, buffs or CP and see how it affects your maximum theoretical damage. The higher the value, the higher theoretical dps you can pull. (Note: monster set 2pc do not show any theoretical gains because it can't be quantified as a damage modifier such as crit or pen)

I love using this editor without actually having to buy the gear and dps test it myself.

For example, I wanted to know if 3 willpower is better than 3 infallible aether. I set my character up in the build editor, and I saw that willpower gave me a slight advantage over infall. So now I use willpower jewelry for my Magicka DK since I don't have any weps of infall.

It's also fun to see things like what's the absolute highest weapon damage you can get on a werewolf (something like 11k iirc), or can you get 100% crit from a build? (Yes)

Personally, my khajiit Stamblade when fully self buffed, has 5k weapon damage, 32.5k stamina, 80.1% crit, 87% crit damage, 992 stamina recovery, 17.3k health, and about 7k self pen.

This is with using 5 NMG, 5 VO, 2 velidreth.