Why is shacklebreaker more sought after and trainee obsolete?

WhoThenNow7

I see people using shackle because they talk of all the resources they get from it. Why is trainee not used anymore?

Ragnarock41

Its overall a good set but Its used a lot because of how much versatility it gives.
Trainee just gives you pure stats and thats it, meanwhile shackle has regen, damage and max resources.
so in the end of the day shacklebreaker is a well made set, a set that benefits people who want to have a little bit of both.

Didgerion

Trainee doesn't give you as much resources as shackle.
Look at the stats:
Shacklebreaker Set:
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery and Stamina Recovery
(5 items) Adds 2000 Max Magicka and Max Stamina.

Armor of the Trainee Set
(2 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(5 items) Increases your Max Health, Magicka and Stamina by 1250.

And some quick notes here:
129 Weapon Damage is better then 1096 Stamina
2000 Stamina and Magica is better than 1250 health stamina and magica.
Health is not a good resource. If you need more health better get it from your stat points or tri-glyphs
Recovery on item sets is very good as you can put 174 Weapon damage glyph on your jewelry instead of 169 Stamina recovery glyph.

All above makes Shacklebreaker a much better set - simple mathematics

Sandman929

Didgerion wrote: »

Trainee doesn't give you as much resources as shackle.
Look at the stats:
Shacklebreaker Set:
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery and Stamina Recovery
(5 items) Adds 2000 Max Magicka and Max Stamina.

Armor of the Trainee Set
(2 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(5 items) Increases your Max Health, Magicka and Stamina by 1250.

And some quick notes here:
129 Weapon Damage is better then 1096 Stamina
2000 Stamina and Magica is better than 1250 health stamina and magica.
Health is not a good resource. If you need more health better get it from your stat points or tri-glyphs
Recovery on item sets is very good as you can put 174 Weapon damage glyph on your jewelry instead of 169 Stamina recovery glyph.

All above makes Shacklebreaker a much better set - simple mathematics

If we're doing comparisons, Trainee is actually 2,346 Magicka and Stamina and 2,456 health

Sandman929

I think Trainee suffers more from Not-As-Awesome-As-It-Used-To-Be syndrome more than anything. It caught a nerf with overall stats, but gets a huge benefit from finally being able to transmute. It's still good, particularly if you're comfortable with lower regen. If you're not as concerned about your health, shacklebreaker is better.

ToRelax

Sandman929 wrote: »

I think Trainee suffers more from Not-As-Awesome-As-It-Used-To-Be syndrome more than anything. It caught a nerf with overall stats, but gets a huge benefit from finally being able to transmute. It's still good, particularly if you're comfortable with lower regen. If you're not as concerned about your health, shacklebreaker is better.

Well, it really can't compete with the stats offered by Shackle or Amber nowadays. When it was nerfed, there was no Shackle and even then the nerf was considered too heavy by most.

Ragnarock41

forgot to mention that having extra hp is poop and has little to no value.
You only need ''enough'' hp to not get bursted. If trainee had pure magicka and stamina Im pretty sure it would be a bit more popular.
Also what @Sandman929 said is true, after the nerf people kind of forgot about it. Just like the black rose, it became obsolete. You can still run it but there are better options.

Sandman929

ToRelax wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

I think Trainee suffers more from Not-As-Awesome-As-It-Used-To-Be syndrome more than anything. It caught a nerf with overall stats, but gets a huge benefit from finally being able to transmute. It's still good, particularly if you're comfortable with lower regen. If you're not as concerned about your health, shacklebreaker is better.

Well, it really can't compete with the stats offered by Shackle or Amber nowadays. When it was nerfed, there was no Shackle and even then the nerf was considered too heavy by most.

Yeah. I never really went back to it after the nerf and Shacklebreaker existed, it didn't really seem to have a place anymore. I think you can make the case pretty easily that the spell or weapon power part is wasted on Shacklebreaker depending on whether you're a stam or mag build, and in that case the health, while not significant, is better than nothing. You could also say that on a mag build, extra stam is more useful than weapon damage and vice versa for a stam build using magicka skills as utility.
But all that assumes you're fine without the added regen that Shackle offers.

ak_pvp

Wrong thread.

Didgerion

Sandman929 wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Trainee doesn't give you as much resources as shackle.
Look at the stats:
Shacklebreaker Set:
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery and Stamina Recovery
(5 items) Adds 2000 Max Magicka and Max Stamina.

Armor of the Trainee Set
(2 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(5 items) Increases your Max Health, Magicka and Stamina by 1250.

And some quick notes here:
129 Weapon Damage is better then 1096 Stamina
2000 Stamina and Magica is better than 1250 health stamina and magica.
Health is not a good resource. If you need more health better get it from your stat points or tri-glyphs
Recovery on item sets is very good as you can put 174 Weapon damage glyph on your jewelry instead of 169 Stamina recovery glyph.

All above makes Shacklebreaker a much better set - simple mathematics

If we're doing comparisons, Trainee is actually 2,346 Magicka and Stamina and 2,456 health

I was not summing up the stats.
I was referring to the 5th items bonus - as this one is the most impactfull when picking up a set.
Also I have notes about other stats as well. Again was not summing the stats.

Didgerion

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

forgot to mention that having extra hp is poop and has little to no value.
You only need ''enough'' hp to not get bursted. If trainee had pure magicka and stamina Im pretty sure it would be a bit more popular.
Also what @Sandman929 said is true, after the nerf people kind of forgot about it. Just like the black rose, it became obsolete. You can still run it but there are better options.

That is correct - but with the current burst power out there the recommended health is 23k+. That means that you need to put some points into health.
But there are more optimal ways to increase health - tri-glyps or attribute points for example.
Health bonus on armor sets is not that good usually.

Ragnarock41

Didgerion wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

forgot to mention that having extra hp is poop and has little to no value.
You only need ''enough'' hp to not get bursted. If trainee had pure magicka and stamina Im pretty sure it would be a bit more popular.
Also what @Sandman929 said is true, after the nerf people kind of forgot about it. Just like the black rose, it became obsolete. You can still run it but there are better options.

That is correct - but with the current burst power out there the recommended health is 23k+. That means that you need to put some points into health.
But there are more optimal ways to increase health - tri-glyps or attribute points for example.
Health bonus on armor sets is not that good usually.

I can easily get 25k hp on my stamDk thanks to tri stat glyphs. No need to sacrifice a strong 5 piece bonus for that imo.

On very limited cases extra hp can be good tho. My stamsorc friend runs an alchemist build with almost 30k hp and he is pretty comfortable with it, also for myself I have tried experimenting with 30k hp on my dk so I could use GDB to heal but in the end it was weaker than my regular build.