Who's Bright idea was the new Guild Bank Viewing 'Feature'

AyeshaBelladonna

According to Brad at ESO, who recently replied to concerns we had concerning the fact that folks could deposit into the guild bank but not see the contents..... Apparently during the Clockwork City update bank Viewing Privileges are now linked to Bank Withdrawl Privileges. Am I the only one who sees this as problem??? WHY ZOS, WHY? If you weren't going to have a separate setting avail in the guild bank rank settings right away, then what made it seem like a good idea to make it so folks couldn't view the bank??? This is ridiculous. Now- if folks that are new to guild want to donate something to the guild, it creates extra work for the officers that have access to the bank because they are now always mailing with a 'Hey, can you use this?" or a " Didn't know if you had one already" and instead of checking guild bank first now to reinvest directly in the guild finances if they need something they shop elsewhere in other guild stores. Which means we have new people way overpaying for stuff we put in the time and effort to have on hand already for them because they don't know its there. 90% of your guilds do NOT allow access to the bank for withdrawals outside of officers and trusted members. this does not mean that the contents aren't there for the lower ranked folks...it just means we don't want some new guy looting the bank without pitching in! PLEASE FIX THIS. This is a huge pain and creates a ton of extra work for all guild members involved and was COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY as far as an 'improvement' to the banking system!

AyeshaBelladonna

Seriously- you added a separate setting for whether certain ranks could view guild bank Gold.... Why wouldn't you allow us to change whether or not a rank can see guild bank CONTENTS?

Kagetenchu

It's always been that way on consoles.

Acrolas

It disincentivizes theft by removing the ability to target specific guilds based on bank contents. It's now a bigger gamble for the thief than the guild, which is a step in the right direction.

Blame the *** hats who rob guilds, not ZOS.

OutLaw_Nynx

Kagetenchu wrote: »

It's always been that way on consoles.

THWIP71

*Whose

Tasear

*nods head,

It's time to upgrade the guild system.

MLGProPlayer

Acrolas wrote: »

It disincentivizes theft by removing the ability to target specific guilds based on bank contents. It's now a bigger gamble for the thief than the guild, which is a step in the right direction.

Blame the *** hats who rob guilds, not ZOS.

No. ZOS could have come up with a much more user-friendly solution than this.

THWIP71

Tasear wrote: »

*nodes head,

It's time to upgrade the guild system.

Somebody's been farming mats too long...

MLGProPlayer

The biggest problem is you can't see your own deposits. This way, you don't know if you've been hit by the bank deposit bug or whether the guild tools are being slow to send you confirmation of your deposit.

For those that don't know, the "guild bank deposit bug" is a long-standing bug that (not infrequently) eats up whatever you deposit in the guild bank. You lose the gold/items and the guild bank doesn't receive them. Support will refund the items/gold, but it's a PIA to have to email support every time it happens (especially for smaller sums of gold).

I need to be able to see deposits so that I can deposit another lump sum if the first one got eaten up.

Tasear

It was an upgrade to trade guilds but a downgrade to everyone else. Either way it wasn't good Design

MakoFore

in terms of interface- whoever designed it for this game is incompetent and obviously hasnt seen how the world has progressed in terms of intuitive design.
the email system
the banking system,
the inventory system- all need fixing. if the commuinity has an add-on to fix ur work- i.e. someone can do your JOB better than you can - for FREE. than you dont deserve the job- they do.
but of course- they probably have an IT job- which means they re doing their job- AND your job better than you are.
e.g ashes inventory insight- great add on- but an embarrassment to ZOS - zos? THIS is how the mind works- we like to sort things by heirarchy and organise things in a fanning system- that is able to expand and contract in a logical branching system. not the idiot mess that you have- with mail for example- with NO sorting. its been 4 years- and things that were in development are now just neglected.

AyeshaBelladonna

I think one of my biggest issues with this is that, lets say you have harvesters that go out to specifically harvest materials. You dedicate your guild bank to keeping a heavy supply of those materials on hand. For your crafters, for potion sales, whatever. you have harvesters who's contribution to the guild is making sure the bank stays stocked on certain things. this is what they want to do to contribute. WHY do they need withdrawal access to see if the GBank is getting low on something? Wouldn't attaching it to the ability to deposit make SO MUCH MORE sense???
-
As for targeting banks..... i don't see how this is now a bigger gamble for the thief than the guild. If anything- this means that guilds that may have less valuable items- but no less time invested- will lose more than a guild that has millions in items and gold because the of the worth those items had to THAT GUILD. Smaller guilds then are at higher risk because they are being forced to trust strangers with minimal vetting or spend all their time trying to help folks know whats in the bank, instead of a couple times a week just cod'ing something to someone.
Thats a lot of extra time and effort for folks and i think we can all agree that Work is not why we are playing this game! It should be fun!
-
All in all, this will add to the already huge problem new and old players complain of, that of folks treating guild banks as junk overflow instead of a resource designed to benefit the whole group.

AyeshaBelladonna

Acrolas wrote: »

It disincentivizes theft by removing the ability to target specific guilds based on bank contents. It's now a bigger gamble for the thief than the guild, which is a step in the right direction.

Blame the *** hats who rob guilds, not ZOS.

Thats why there should've been an option to choose, just like with the gold now, whether or not that rank can see. it shouldn't be tied to ANY of the access options. it should be an independent option because the only guilds it really benefits in any way right now are the big trade guilds. this screws over the smaller guilds completely and will open MORE of the smaller guild banks to the chance of theft because they simply don't have the manpower to handle all the extra work zos just created for them.
they just get frustrated new members that can't make use of the bank without help and that keeps them from growing so they CAN manage the extra work. Of course we blame the thieves too- but zoo's 'fix' is utter crap and doesn't actually help that problem.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

It disincentivizes theft by removing the ability to target specific guilds based on bank contents. It's now a bigger gamble for the thief than the guild, which is a step in the right direction.

Blame the *** hats who rob guilds, not ZOS.

No. ZOS could have come up with a much more user-friendly solution than this.

This could've been addressed much more user friendly yes. i totally agree with that!

THWIP71

Tasear wrote: »

It was an upgrade to trade guilds but a downgrade to everyone else. Either way it wasn't good Design

That's pretty much how ZOS works: fix 1 thing, break something else in the process.

commdt

Its not a feature, its broken. As there was no mention of this in patch notes and there was no answer here on forums about this.

AyeshaBelladonna

commdt wrote: »

Its not a feature, its broken. As there was no mention of this in patch notes and there was no answer here on forums about this.

We reported it under the help/bug and Brad @ eso emailed back and said flat out,
"Thank you for contacting The Elder Scrolls Online Team. My name is Brad and I'll be happy to assist you today!

I understand you have concerns about not being able to see the contents of a guild bank. After the Clockwork City update, bank withdraw privilege on PC is now linked to guild bank viewing privilege. There is no current setting to split these privileges. I Hope this clears things up!

If you have any questions of concerns in the future, please don't hesitate to open a new ticket. We'll be happy to help! Thank you for your continued interest and support! "

so whether or not they TOLD us about it in the patch notes- they appear to have done this intentionally. He didn't say anything about it being a case of, "We're aware of the problem and will be addressing it in future patches" or anything like that. So, if we don't raise a stink about this we will never see an answer about it getting 'fixed'

Smasherx74

I thought they added these feature a long time ago. Because for the longest time I Remember not being able to view other build bank items.

AyeshaBelladonna

@Jess

Smasherx74 wrote: »

I thought they added these feature a long time ago. Because for the longest time I Remember not being able to view other build bank items.

there has been 2 other issues with it. a long standing problem that gamepad players had to to go to K & M to view them, and another that made it unviewable due to add ons and disabling add ons solved that. those two have been around since before update 14 for sure. this new one is specific to CC launch and seems to be affecting all new guild member additions. So far i haven't seen a consistent amount of my longtime members with this issue yet. which is odd for something good ol Brad there made sound intentional. but they may get the problem after a rank change or something similar.

LiquidPony

This change is similar to another absolutely idiotic change that came with CWC: guild invites.

Previously, if I invited a player to my guild, and that player was already in 5 guilds, they'd get the guild invite notification, then they could decide whether or not they wanted to leave one of their guilds to join mine.

Now, I can't even invite someone if they're already in 5 guilds. Which leads to a lot of unnecessary back-and-forth. If someone messages me and asks for an invite, are they supposed to just leave one of their existing guilds and hope that I actually invite them?

It's one of those ideas (much like guild bank viewing privileges) that, on the surface, makes logical sense ... but then anyone who actually plays the game would immediately understand why it's a terrible idea. Which just further reinforces my belief (despite their denials) that the staff at ZOS don't actually play the game in the same capacity that most of their players do.

Juju_beans

That's really too bad for a majority of players. New recruits cannot see what's in the bank.

There should be a view only option that guild leaders can toggle on/off for recruits.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Kagetenchu wrote: »

It's always been that way on consoles.

That's a stupid excuse, and it shouldn't be like that for consoles either.

Spaghettiknight

I play using a controller (still on PC, but Xbox One UI) so I'm used to it, but yeah it's dumb. What does it matter if everyone can see the gold and items in the guild bank? It's not like they're gonna be able to steal anything and I really doubt people are going to dedicate months to advancing within the guild for the sole purpose of stealing your materials. Besides if the player is a thief they're gonna steal all the stuff as soon as they can anyway so it really doesn't make a difference.

sigirri

Tasear wrote: »

It was an upgrade to trade guilds but a downgrade to everyone else. Either way it wasn't good Design

I run a trade guild and it is a major pain in the ass for my guildies and myself. We run "pick your own ____" for raffle prizes and auction gear lots, which has been made impossible to do since cwc released because I am sure as hell not linking 2 guild banks worth of items for people to choose from. Also people like to look at the bank contents to see what is coming up in guild auctions, to know if they want to be on to participate, save gold for something, etc. It's sucks for trade guilds, too. I would love for it to be fixed ASAP.

Jamini

LiquidPony wrote: »

anyone who actually plays the game would immediately understand why it's a terrible idea.

Disagree, I loathed random invites. The new system is vastly superior.

All you need to do is check with someone with your words before spamming an invitation. It's not difficult nor un-intuitive.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Ok. Just to agree with OP, yes, it sucks members can't see Guild Bank Items unless given viewing ranks.
But to clear up the myths stated above about "Cleaning out banks and or Bank Robbing"......

** The Original Idea was to block new members/certain ranks from seeing "Withdraws Of Gold" in the Bank History.
This is because anyone could see the amount the GM bid for a trader, and relay that info to another guild and out bid said guild. YES! This was a thing and spying became a problem even in mid sized guilds.
We asked as GM's for ZoS to please address this. They then made it where the History only showed those bids AFTER bidding was closed, but that didn't really help to much.
So they implemented a new permissions to guild ranks : "View Guild Bank Gold".
But it ALSO, through a bug or clitch, made it to include ALL the Guild Bank Inventory, not just Guild Bank Gold.

(NOTE**Besides the "CS Response Mail" posted above, have we seen a response on this from @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_RichLambert , if this is working as intended???)

Yes, I was ALL for this feature at first, and still wish to stop "Bid Spying", but in my Guild, I have the bank access set up for probably 75-80% of my guild, because it belongs to them and they should have access to it, but new members and those without the permissions of a officer cant see ANY of the guild bank and what it has to offer them.
This makes it Real hard as a GM, (as if lack of Guild Mgt Tools doesn't make it hard enough already),to recruit new players and/or returning players, and try and help them get set up with donations from guild bank when they don't know what is there! Or I can make ALL new members have "View Gold" privileges and go back to having "Bid Spying" available and take a chance of losing our trader. This is a "Lose / Lose situation.

TL;DR~ This "Feature" was to stop Guild Trader Spying. It was to block Guild Gold from being viewed. But with CWC it blocked ALL bank items from being viewed. PLEASE @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_RichLambert ,
Can we please hear from you or get this addressed as this is NOT "Functioning as Intended" and is hindering our ability to be an effective GM to new players and guild mates.
Just My 2 Drakes!
Huzzah!!!!

Acrolas

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The biggest problem is you can't see your own deposits.

There's an activity log for all bank activity in the guild interface. That is your proof of deposit.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Jamini wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

anyone who actually plays the game would immediately understand why it's a terrible idea.

Disagree, I loathed random invites. The new system is vastly superior.

All you need to do is check with someone with your words before spamming an invitation. It's not difficult nor un-intuitive.

I think you are confused.
The system we are discussing deals with viewing Guild Bank Contents and has nothing to do with Inviting to Guild or Guild Invite Spams....:)

AyeshaBelladonna

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Ok. Just to agree with OP, yes, it sucks members can't see Guild Bank Items unless given viewing ranks.
But to clear up the myths stated above about "Cleaning out banks and or Bank Robbing"......

** The Original Idea was to block new members/certain ranks from seeing "Withdraws Of Gold" in the Bank History.
This is because anyone could see the amount the GM bid for a trader, and relay that info to another guild and out bid said guild. YES! This was a thing and spying became a problem even in mid sized guilds.
We asked as GM's for ZoS to please address this. They then made it where the History only showed those bids AFTER bidding was closed, but that didn't really help to much.
So they implemented a new permissions to guild ranks : "View Guild Bank Gold".
But it ALSO, through a bug or clitch, made it to include ALL the Guild Bank Inventory, not just Guild Bank Gold.

(NOTE**Besides the "CS Response Mail" posted above, have we seen a response on this from @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_RichLambert , if this is working as intended???)

Yes, I was ALL for this feature at first, and still wish to stop "Bid Spying", but in my Guild, I have the bank access set up for probably 75-80% of my guild, because it belongs to them and they should have access to it, but new members and those without the permissions of a officer cant see ANY of the guild bank and what it has to offer them.
This makes it Real hard as a GM, (as if lack of Guild Mgt Tools doesn't make it hard enough already),to recruit new players and/or returning players, and try and help them get set up with donations from guild bank when they don't know what is there! Or I can make ALL new members have "View Gold" privileges and go back to having "Bid Spying" available and take a chance of losing our trader. This is a "Lose / Lose situation.

TL;DR~ This "Feature" was to stop Guild Trader Spying. It was to block Guild Gold from being viewed. But with CWC it blocked ALL bank items from being viewed. PLEASE @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_RichLambert ,
Can we please hear from you or get this addressed as this is NOT "Functioning as Intended" and is hindering our ability to be an effective GM to new players and guild mates.
Just My 2 Drakes!
Huzzah!!!!

I checked and EVERY RANK was defaulted to being able to see gold in bank. So it may have been caused because they implemented this- but it is definitely linked to withdrawing and not just viewing gold. Otherwise i would happily set it so every person in my guild can see the gold we have accumulated. its no secret for us and we don't bid on traders. Sadly, after double checking, that isn't a quick fix. i was so hoping!

AyeshaBelladonna

@ZOS_GinaBruno Any word on whats going on with this? is there a fix in the works? are we going to get the option to independently set this 'feature' ??? As it stands this makes the Guild Banks Relatively useless except as 500 extra slots to a select few people.