Suggestion for the Queue Problem

Earthewen

All of us experience the huge queues on occasion. However, I am fully aware as are many of you about the issue of group queuing which enables you to queue into cyro while grouped with an enemy faction thereby bypassing your own queue and "gumming up" the queue of the enemy faction. I understand that entire raids are using this exploit. Our guild refuses to use it even though it is quite painful to sit in a queue for an hour and a half.

It did dawn on me this morning though that maybe the answer is to remove group queuing altogether. Why is a group queue even necessary for Cryo? Simply remove it for Cyro only and let everyone solo queue. From what I understand, solo queue isn't any slower so why do we need group queuing? Then everyone can group up once they get to Cryo. This would solve the queuing issues involving the exploit.

Prince_of_all_Pugs

Solution to massive queue= move to another server and stop zerg surfing.

zyk

Earthewen wrote: »

It did dawn on me this morning though that maybe the answer is to remove group queuing altogether. Why is a group queue even necessary for Cryo? Simply remove it for Cyro only and let everyone solo queue. From what I understand, solo queue isn't any slower so why do we need group queuing? Then everyone can group up once they get to Cryo. This would solve the queuing issues involving the exploit.

If a loophole exists, it's just as easy for ZOS to fix that than it is for them to remove the group queue option. It's a function many use legitimately for convenience so therefore should be fixed instead of removed.

Mazbt

I've come across literally one group that would use that whole port into cyrodil with the crown as another alliance. The guilds I run/ran with never utilized it. Is it really that widespread?

VaranisArano

Here's a recent thread for the bug reports on this issue: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/381934/stop-letting-group-qing-into-cyrodiil-please#latest

Yes, it is that widespread. It's been an open secret for at least a year. I've seen several players on my own faction admit or offer to do it, and I'm hearing the same thing from players on other alliances.

A. ZOS has never (as far as I know) confirmed that this exists and works the way we think it does, nor does ZOS seem to have a fix if it does. They did something to the queue during the Midyear Mayhem event, but that change seems to have been reverted.
B. Everyone thinks that the other factions use it but their own faction is made up of saints who would never do such a cheaty thing. I guarantee you that if you think DC is getting hit by this exploit, EP thinks they are, and so does AD.
C. Its a cheat and an exploit to bypass the queue and certainly not something that can be done unknowingly. However, short of players admitting that they do it, its pretty hard for us players to see whether or not its actually occurring. Its on ZOS to investigate and make a fix if necessary, but see point A for how well that's gone.

The easiest fix is to remove group queue. Everyone queues as a solo player and maybe we all see higher numbers in our queue because of that. However, this way we all have the confidence that our population read is accurate and all those players in queue are there for our faction. If ZOS won't/can't do that, they should revert back to what they did during Midyear Mayhem that temporarily fixed that problem.

I play on PC/NA Vivec. The long queues are something I live with because I love the PVP on that server. I don't mind waiting in line for players of my own faction. But when I have to live with a well-known exploit that lets players of other factions effectively cut in my line, I have a problem with that.

zyk

VaranisArano wrote: »

The easiest fix is to remove group queue.

This isn't true. At a programming level, it would be trivial to enforce the proper functionality. It would be just as easy to fix the problem than to remove the option of the group queue. ZOS just doesn't care.

VaranisArano

zyk wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

The easiest fix is to remove group queue.

This isn't true. At a programming level, it would be trivial to enforce the proper functionality. It would be just as easy to fix the problem than to remove the option of the group queue. ZOS just doesn't care.

That's pretty much it. If its that simple, either:
A. ZOS can't fix it - so remove group queue as the fix.
B. ZOS won't fix it - they don't think its enough of an issue to fix it despite it being a clear and ongoing exploit.

To my mind, a clear and ongoing exploit deserves a fix, quickly, whether by fixing the queue so that multi-faction groups cannot be formed for Cyrodiil or properly count toward each faction's queue when they are made, or by removing the opportunity to exploit by removing the group queue.

I think the group queue is useful if fixed, but I'd gladly give up the group queue if it closed off the exploit.

zyk

There is no conceivable reason why ZOS would not be able to fix something like this. It can only be extremely rudimentary. This can be said about soooooooo many issues in the game.

The problem is that any change takes a minimum amount of vetting and managerial overhead and it seems to pain ZOS to spend anything it does not absolutely need to on AvA -- and many other facets of the game.

Drummerx04

So you can't be in a cross faction group while in cyrodiil, and trying to join one generates an error... but somehow no error is generated when using the queue? I guess that's conceivable, but I'm going to test this when I get home.

What I don't find believable is that anyone takes the campaign seriously enough any more to justify using an exploit to try to manipulate the population.

The much more likely scenario is simply that the overall game population cannot really support more than one large front per faction. So given there is only 8 basic ways a 1 front per faction war (with 3 factions) can go... two of the ways are a circular PvDoor (clockwise and counter-clockwise), the other 6 ways necessitate a faction getting double teamed.

Cheating accusations are so rampant in this game, it's actually kind of ridiculous.

Agrippa_Invisus

Drummerx04 wrote: »

So you can't be in a cross faction group while in cyrodiil, and trying to join one generates an error... but somehow no error is generated when using the queue? I guess that's conceivable, but I'm going to test this when I get home.

What I don't find believable is that anyone takes the campaign seriously enough any more to justify using an exploit to try to manipulate the population.

The much more likely scenario is simply that the overall game population cannot really support more than one large front per faction. So given there is only 8 basic ways a 1 front per faction war (with 3 factions) can go... two of the ways are a circular PvDoor (clockwise and counter-clockwise), the other 6 ways necessitate a faction getting double teamed.

Cheating accusations are so rampant in this game, it's actually kind of ridiculous.

From those who I've heard have used it, bypassing the queue isn't about population manipulation, it's about impatience to play. Sitting in queue is boring.

Vilestride

Does this bug affect the population? Or does it just bypass queue? Does anyone know? So if for example EP is pop locked and AD has 2 bar does an EP doing this get an instant in, pushing EP above pop lock? Or does it put them at queue position 1?

umagon

Vilestride wrote: »

Does this bug affect the population? Or does it just bypass queue? Does anyone know? So if for example EP is pop locked and AD has 2 bar does an EP doing this get an instant in, pushing EP above pop lock? Or does it put them at queue position 1?

From what I understand about it. The bug uses one faction’s population numbers to bypass another’s queue. So say faction A with 100 players is locked and has 2 hour queue but faction B has only 2 bars and 40 players. When the bug is used by 5 people from faction A queue under faction B’s numbers.

Now faction A players are in the zone counting as faction B players. So when faction A has actually has 105 players in zone it’s not reported as that, instead it’s reported as faction B having 45 players in zone.

Ranger209

There is absolutely no reason to group prior to entering. Everyone should enter singly and group up after getting there. It doesn't save time it is not a convenience it is simply a matter of when, before or after. Entering Cyrodiil as a group should not even be an option. If you are in a group you should have to disband before entering or it shouldn't let you enter Cyrodiil.

Ranger209

Drummerx04 wrote: »

What I don't find believable is that anyone takes the campaign seriously enough any more to justify using an exploit to try to manipulate the population.

I think you are correct. By and large those using the exploit probably don't care about the campaign and aren't trying to manipulate the population. They just want to play with their friends or play the way they want to play with no consideration of how it affects others or the campaign at large. As a result of them playing their way the population is skewed even though there is no intent to do so.

There probably is a small number of people who use this with the intent to manipulate population.

There is also the group that does care about the campaign and would like to see things like this end whether they are being used with intent or not.

VaranisArano

Ranger209 wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

What I don't find believable is that anyone takes the campaign seriously enough any more to justify using an exploit to try to manipulate the population.

I think you are correct. By and large those using the exploit probably don't care about the campaign and aren't trying to manipulate the population. They just want to play with their friends or play the way they want to play with no consideration of how it affects others or the campaign at large. As a result of them playing their way the population is skewed even though there is no intent to do so.

There probably is a small number of people who use this with the intent to manipulate population.

There is also the group that does care about the campaign and would like to see things like this end whether they are being used with intent or not.

Regardless of their intent, the effect is to manipulate the population in a way that calls into question both the basic fairness of Cyrodiil (do we really have the "equal" population the queue bars say we do?) and the accuracy of the population bars as shown by ZOS.

I don't mind fighting outnumbered or waiting in line behind others of my own team. I do object to have other factions hop in my line and manipulate my population for their own benefit, whether that's a faster queue or messing with the population. I also object to players on my own team using it, because shady tactics using exploits aren't any more acceptable when its my team using them.

Ranger209

VaranisArano wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

What I don't find believable is that anyone takes the campaign seriously enough any more to justify using an exploit to try to manipulate the population.

I think you are correct. By and large those using the exploit probably don't care about the campaign and aren't trying to manipulate the population. They just want to play with their friends or play the way they want to play with no consideration of how it affects others or the campaign at large. As a result of them playing their way the population is skewed even though there is no intent to do so.

There probably is a small number of people who use this with the intent to manipulate population.

There is also the group that does care about the campaign and would like to see things like this end whether they are being used with intent or not.

Regardless of their intent, the effect is to manipulate the population in a way that calls into question both the basic fairness of Cyrodiil (do we really have the "equal" population the queue bars say we do?) and the accuracy of the population bars as shown by ZOS.

I don't mind fighting outnumbered or waiting in line behind others of my own team. I do object to have other factions hop in my line and manipulate my population for their own benefit, whether that's a faster queue or messing with the population. I also object to players on my own team using it, because shady tactics using exploits aren't any more acceptable when its my team using them.

Totally agree. There is absolutely no reason to group ahead of queue when entering Cyrodiil. It is just as easy to do after you get there. Matter of fact I, myself, never group until I am in Cyrodiil, and that is no inconvenience whatsoever. Make it only so you can queue in singly and then you don't ever have to worry about it bugging out later.

Anazasi

Mazbt wrote: »

I've come across literally one group that would use that whole port into cyrodil with the crown as another alliance. The guilds I run/ran with never utilized it. Is it really that widespread?

Yes apparently it is. Another EP player sent a message asking one of my guildies to port there EP group in. Of course this created a wonderful discussion and screenies and tickets to ZOS regarding the aforesaid behavior. It's a shame that players want to bypass the locks that are in place to try and balance a campaign.

VaranisArano

Anazasi wrote: »

Mazbt wrote: »

I've come across literally one group that would use that whole port into cyrodil with the crown as another alliance. The guilds I run/ran with never utilized it. Is it really that widespread?

Yes apparently it is. Another EP player sent a message asking one of my guildies to port there EP group in. Of course this created a wonderful discussion and screenies and tickets to ZOS regarding the aforesaid behavior. It's a shame that players want to bypass the locks that are in place to try and balance a campaign.

Ugh. I hate feeling ashamed of my own faction's players, but there you go. Good on you all for reporting it.

Earthewen

I think we have all been able to come to the conclusion that even if one raid group does it, and apparently there is more than one, then it is something that needs to be fixed. It is a flatout exploit and needs to be addressed.