Why players are so dumb and keep stacking in one campaign?

ManDraKE

Seriously, 100+ players in the PC/NA Vivec queue waiting to join the lagfest, meanwhile Shor is dead empty (except for the classic AD *** zergball rolling over a dead campaign with perma-emp chasing pugs and solo players across the map). Why instead of waiting 1 hour to join a lagfest where it takes 5 tries to cast 1 skill, you go to Shor and try to actually have fun at the game?

I know that you have been taught not to use your brain and follow the crown blindly, but still, what can possible be the reason to keep stacking over each other at Vivec? ....

Lexxypwns

ManDraKE wrote: »

Seriously, 100+ players in the PC/NA Vivec queue waiting to join the lagfest, meanwhile Shor is dead empty (except for the classic AD *** zergball rolling over a dead campaign with perma-emp chasing pugs and solo players across the map). Why instead of waiting 1 hour to join a lagfest where it takes 5 tries to cast 1 skill, you go to Shor and try to actually have fun at the game?

I know that you have been taught not to use your brain and follow the crown blindly, but still, what can possible be the reason to keep stacking over each other at Vivec? ....

Because nobody wants to deal with the tryhard guild group farming pugs when all their friends are on Vivec.

It’s backwards logic, but it’s the top excuse

geonsocal

checking in on this thread to get some insight in to stupdity...

Urza1234

"Why players are so dumb and keep stracking in one campaign?"

I never strack.

Joy_Division

ManDraKE wrote: »

Seriously, 100+ players in the PC/NA Vivec queue waiting to join the lagfest, meanwhile Shor is dead empty (except for the classic AD *** zergball rolling over a dead campaign with perma-emp chasing pugs and solo players across the map). Why instead of waiting 1 hour to join a lagfest where it takes 5 tries to cast 1 skill, you go to Shor and try to actually have fun at the game?

I know that you have been taught not to use your brain and follow the crown blindly, but still, what can possible be the reason to keep stacking over each other at Vivec? ....

You answered your own question.

CyrusArya

It’s a negative feed back loop. Ppl assume no one will be there, so they don’t queue for it, thus creating a self fulfilling prophecy.

In fact the fights are pretty good and the campaign has a lot of potential if ppl gave it more of a chance.

Beardimus

It becomes and endless cycle.. As the above posts show.

Unsure how to stop it. Be good.if Zos made other incentives.

Personally want to stack Sotha for decent no-cp action but no one wants to make it home campaign, even tho the playstyle is way better.

Peeps are hard work.

Master_Kas

Beardimus wrote: »

It becomes and endless cycle.. As the above posts show.

Unsure how to stop it. Be good.if Zos made other incentives.

Personally want to stack Sotha for decent no-cp action but no one wants to make it home campaign, even tho the playstyle is way better, in my opinion .

Peeps are hard work.

Fixed that for you

Prince_of_all_Pugs

ManDraKE wrote: »

Seriously, 100+ players in the PC/NA Vivec queue waiting to join the lagfest, meanwhile Shor is dead empty (except for the classic AD *** zergball rolling over a dead campaign with perma-emp chasing pugs and solo players across the map). Why instead of waiting 1 hour to join a lagfest where it takes 5 tries to cast 1 skill, you go to Shor and try to actually have fun at the game?

I know that you have been taught not to use your brain and follow the crown blindly, but still, what can possible be the reason to keep stacking over each other at Vivec? ....

Its because they are all Zerg Surfer's, they need to surf a ZERG to make AP, if there are no zergs then they cannot PVP.

dennissomb16_ESO

Outside of the occasional to long que not everyone has the same issue as OP in Vivec. I have rarely had extended lag issues in Vivec even in some of the biggest fights ( I did have all the loss of sound issues that recently happened but that does seem to be fixed).
I did play in Shor for about a month with a guild dedicated to playing there. Truth is for me it was incredibly boring. Beside the empty population in the mornings (8-10 a.m. EST) the evening population was always one sided. One faction would have 3 bars while the other 2 would be one bar. The dominate faction would face roll the map, get EMP and then log out. Rinse and repeat with other factions at different time of the day.

Vivec is the last campaign in PC NA that has any chance of even populations in prime time.

zyk

I would guess more than half the players in any campaign aren't interested in PVP. They're there for the large oticks. ZOS needs to stop awarding AP to players for activities that do not involve PVP. @ZOS_RichLambert you guys are killing what's left of Cyrodiil with this terrible scoring system.

Beyond that, I don't know what the solution is for Shor. My guild made an effort to play there with groups of 6-10, but the PVP was awful because 80% of the players don't know how to play and the other 20% are there to 1-8vX the 80%. In the end, I preferred Vivec because the level of competition was much higher. I would never play solo on Shor because the fights are just bad most of the time.

This game is in desperate need of competitive balance. There needs to be a campaign where casual players can go to fight each other without feeling to need to zerg. This would actually help grow PVP.

ManDraKE

Joy_Division wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Seriously, 100+ players in the PC/NA Vivec queue waiting to join the lagfest, meanwhile Shor is dead empty (except for the classic AD *** zergball rolling over a dead campaign with perma-emp chasing pugs and solo players across the map). Why instead of waiting 1 hour to join a lagfest where it takes 5 tries to cast 1 skill, you go to Shor and try to actually have fun at the game?

I know that you have been taught not to use your brain and follow the crown blindly, but still, what can possible be the reason to keep stacking over each other at Vivec? ....

You answered your own question.

im not sure that is the reason, the group is not even good, any mediocre zergling guild could face them. And even if they weren't there, the people would be still making line to join Vivec and Shor would still be dead for 95% of the time. One single group can't control an entire camaping if it is populated, they can't be in 2 places at the same time

Drummerx04

ManDraKE wrote: »

Seriously, 100+ players in the PC/NA Vivec queue waiting to join the lagfest, meanwhile Shor is dead empty (except for the classic AD *** zergball rolling over a dead campaign with perma-emp chasing pugs and solo players across the map). Why instead of waiting 1 hour to join a lagfest where it takes 5 tries to cast 1 skill, you go to Shor and try to actually have fun at the game?

I know that you have been taught not to use your brain and follow the crown blindly, but still, what can possible be the reason to keep stacking over each other at Vivec? ....

• Everyone in noCP is ironically an elitist noCP snob
• Shor apparently has a perma yellow emp zergball, and no organized resistance on the other factions. Oh please, sign me up for that!
• You called everyone you are trying to encourage a stupid brainless zergling.

Maybe I missed it, where was the upside to joining YOU in Shor?

ManDraKE

Drummerx04 wrote: »

• You called everyone you are trying to encourage a stupid brainless zergling.

So, if i called them "Great Big Scale PvP Top players, masters of the Destro Staff Ult and earthgore shenanigans" they will join Shor? Common dude, don't put this on me.

Lexxypwns

ManDraKE wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Seriously, 100+ players in the PC/NA Vivec queue waiting to join the lagfest, meanwhile Shor is dead empty (except for the classic AD *** zergball rolling over a dead campaign with perma-emp chasing pugs and solo players across the map). Why instead of waiting 1 hour to join a lagfest where it takes 5 tries to cast 1 skill, you go to Shor and try to actually have fun at the game?

I know that you have been taught not to use your brain and follow the crown blindly, but still, what can possible be the reason to keep stacking over each other at Vivec? ....

You answered your own question.

im not sure that is the reason, the group is not even good, any mediocre zergling guild could face them. And even if they weren't there, the people would be still making line to join Vivec and Shor would still be dead for 95% of the time. One single group can't control an entire camaping if it is populated, they can't be in 2 places at the same time

You’re missing the point, that group may not be good, but people already have their friends playing in Vivec. This means that even if their usual group could wipe the big group they’d have to leave a place they’re already getting fights.

Also, consider that these dead server emp groups usually just log out after getting wiped a few times so then you’ve got to re-queue for Vivec anyway.

This is all backwards and can easily be fixed by people just deciding to change it, but with such easy excuses is it any wonder why people don’t bother?

fastolfv_ESO

your forgetting when morrowind hit and clockwork the pop caps were lowered, we have the same guilds we have always had here. The only exception is more pve scrubs who need transmutation crystals that pile on to vivec, but in the end its the same amount of people if not less trying to pvp with zenimax trying to force us off to try and make the game look less dead

ManDraKE

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

your forgetting when morrowind hit and clockwork the pop caps were lowered, we have the same guilds we have always had here. The only exception is more pve scrubs who need transmutation crystals that pile on to vivec, but in the end its the same amount of people if not less trying to pvp with zenimax trying to force us off to try and make the game look less dead

if PvE players go to PvP to get cristals, that's great, more people to Kill, keeps Cyrodrill alive. Eventualy some of them will end up liking PvP. The problem is that EVERYONE is going to the same camaping, when we CLEARLY have enought population to keep both campains active and alive.

zyk

ManDraKE wrote: »

if PvE players go to PvP to get cristals, that's great, more people to Kill, keeps Cyrodrill alive. Eventualy some of them will end up liking PvP. The problem is that EVERYONE is going to the same camaping, when we CLEARLY have enought population to keep both campains active and alive.

Not really. The PVE players in Cyrodiil are there to surf a zerg for oticks, vigor and caltrops. They will happily grind empty keeps in lag with 60 other players. They're certainly not going to spread out to Shor to get farmed by small scalers and the large raids that poach there occasionally because that doesn't help them accomplish their goals.

If they're not ready for PVP, they'll be easy kills anyway, so are they really adding anything to PVP? If anything this drives true PVP players away. IMO, true PVP players are looking for good competition, not laydowns.

The otick trains are the reason I can't bring myself to play most of the time now. I love dynamic AvA and everything that comes with it including zergs, ganking, kiting, etc, but not if the PVP completely sucks like it does most of the time now.

This game is rotting.

VaranisArano

Because I want to play in Vivec.

I want to play in Vivec with my friends and with my raid. I want to play on a competitive server where I know the groups and how they play the map on my team and the enemy alliances.

If all I wanted to do was fight players, I could go to Shor and have plenty of stuff to do. That's not what I want to do. So I queue early for Vivec or I find something else to do with my evening.

Joy_Division

ManDraKE wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Seriously, 100+ players in the PC/NA Vivec queue waiting to join the lagfest, meanwhile Shor is dead empty (except for the classic AD *** zergball rolling over a dead campaign with perma-emp chasing pugs and solo players across the map). Why instead of waiting 1 hour to join a lagfest where it takes 5 tries to cast 1 skill, you go to Shor and try to actually have fun at the game?

I know that you have been taught not to use your brain and follow the crown blindly, but still, what can possible be the reason to keep stacking over each other at Vivec? ....

You answered your own question.

im not sure that is the reason, the group is not even good, any mediocre zergling guild could face them. And even if they weren't there, the people would be still making line to join Vivec and Shor would still be dead for 95% of the time. One single group can't control an entire camaping if it is populated, they can't be in 2 places at the same time

It is for me. Empty map, with a mass group of potatoes PvDooring and relentlessly chasing down everyone. I have better things to do with my time than trying to 1v24 them.

I get it, someone has to take the intuitive. But people have taken the intuitive many times to create a second viable campaign aside from the vivecs, the truelfames, the wabbajacks, whatever the pop locked campaign de jour is. It's not like it hasn't been tried. How many times have we seen a thread on these forums trying to setup a secondary campaign? But it's damn frustrating to go into that server without a group capable to taking down the tryhard potatoes and it doesn't matter how bad they are as a group, they have numbers and it just takes one NB to set a camp up or one kags rez templar and it's like fighting a zombie horde.

The reason why its empty is mostly because those servers are not a fun to play in. It's been like that ever since the Lighting patch killed off the PvP population. I do recall a brief moment after imperial city when Zos actually had to open another campaign because we had multiple popped lock campaigns, but that didn't last very long.

For as much as people like to bag on the vivecs, the wabbajacks, the trueflames, etc., there is a reason why people such as myself log into it night after night. I am not a masochist. If something isn't fun or enjoyable, I'm not going to beat my head against it. I'l go do something else. What I like about the pop-locked campaign is by its very pop-locked nature, I don;t have to put up with the emp trading, faction-hopping, and other BS that people complain about because the population cap precludes such nonsense. You want to hop factions? Fine, go ahead. You aren't adding to the other population and the person that's replacing you is likely better because they aren't a coward. You want to invite your 23 friends and circumvent the home-guest faction system to try and get emp? Go ahead, you won't get past Alessia. Also, the pop locked campaign is the closest approximation to what the game advertised at Beta. I like large battles and epic keep captures/defenses. I really do. I'm not going to get that on Shor trying to 1v24 tryhard potatoes defending their friend's emperor. Sometimes I want to go to the bridge because I want to pour oil down on the people below. Sometimes I enjoy seeing the names of other players because it gives me hope that there are some people who'll keep playing this game despite its issues. Sure, a 60 que isn't great, but it's not like there aren't other things in the game that I can;t do in the meantime; I craft, I decorate my house, I finish this random quest or grab an achievement or what not. Hell, sometimes Ill just go make myself dinner.

In short, for me anyway, there are reasons many and varied that make it such I generally have fun in vivec, despite what people say about it, and generally do not have fun going onto an underpopulated server.

arkansas_ESO

It's too easy for one side to just dominate on a dead server like Shor. If you've got a solid 8 man with emp you can roll both sides for hours, and by the time they dethrone your group will be ready to log off for the night anyways.

This is a bigger issue with the Emperor system and how the winning side gets buffs that help them keep winning, and that PVP has a small enough population that everybody just stacks into one campaign.

VaranisArano

ManDraKE wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Seriously, 100+ players in the PC/NA Vivec queue waiting to join the lagfest, meanwhile Shor is dead empty (except for the classic AD *** zergball rolling over a dead campaign with perma-emp chasing pugs and solo players across the map). Why instead of waiting 1 hour to join a lagfest where it takes 5 tries to cast 1 skill, you go to Shor and try to actually have fun at the game?

I know that you have been taught not to use your brain and follow the crown blindly, but still, what can possible be the reason to keep stacking over each other at Vivec? ....

You answered your own question.

im not sure that is the reason, the group is not even good, any mediocre zergling guild could face them. And even if they weren't there, the people would be still making line to join Vivec and Shor would still be dead for 95% of the time. One single group can't control an entire camaping if it is populated, they can't be in 2 places at the same time

My guild has gone over to Shor. We smashed the map on a prime-time night with half our raid. It was no competition.

That was the problem. Strangely enough, smashing all the out-matched opposition isn't half as fun as playing on a busy campaign where we can smash and get smashed in turn. When a raid likes to play the map and have some good large-scale battles...we found that back on Vivec. Not Shor.

zyk

I decided to pvp for the first time a couple of weeks tonight and it didn't take me long to realize it's the same zergvdoor BS all over the map.

Cyrodiil is basically a PVE zone at this point.

Xsorus

Couple things they could do to help the situation.

Make IC it’s own campaign map.

Make pvp ladders account for all servers and remove the home and friend system as it serves little purpose now a days. When one campaign fills up you would move to a new campaign map and continue playing with no progress lost.

Change the 7 day server and give it new rules like lower group cap of like 8 people for example. This way you could test changes in pvp that might make a difference.

caeliusstarbreaker

Pvp in Vivec- take resource, take 2 resources, go to bridge or mile gates and find pvp.

Pvp in shor- take resource wait while nothing happens... siege keep to gain attention... get double the siege back at you with no one jumpin down to fight. Or take one of your home keep resources and get mobbed by whatever emp swarm is there.

There really isn’t a middle ground.

Lexxypwns

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Pvp in Vivec- take resource, take 2 resources, go to bridge or mile gates and find pvp.

Pvp in shor- take resource wait while nothing happens... siege keep to gain attention... get double the siege back at you with no one jumpin down to fight. Or take one of your home keep resources and get mobbed by whatever emp swarm is there.

There really isn’t a middle ground.

To add to this, the guilds that can manage enough players to compete with an emp group already have some players on Vivec from pre-prime time and they’d have to leave Vivec to field a group to compete

doslekis

Vivec and shore were both pop locked at one point on ps4 NA tonight.

Vivec with 100 person que shor with 15 que.

Beardimus

Master_Kas wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

It becomes and endless cycle.. As the above posts show.

Unsure how to stop it. Be good.if Zos made other incentives.

Personally want to stack Sotha for decent no-cp action but no one wants to make it home campaign, even tho the playstyle is way better, in my opinion, and many many others - like all the people that played BG from launch on no-CP lpving the fast paced action before the CP crutch landed and the zerg boys appeared from vivec following their regular anitcs.

Peeps are hard work.

Fixed that for you

Thanks, fixed that for you too

Beardimus

@Lexxypwns is spot on in this thread.

ZOS can't really fix this. People can, but they won't change, so it won't change.

It's a self fulfilling Catch 22. It just needs people to take a stance.

I guess they could incentivise dead campaigns, maybe higher AP for no-CP. But then I guess we'd just get zerg behaviour.

Who knows.

Morgul667

Dynamic population caps

technohic

So heres the thing with Shor on PC NA. When I first started going there a bit alternating between it and Vivec it was less zergy and a lot of just trying to find a fight. But when 1 guild had a guild night, you knew it because that faction would have a noticeably more than others. One cool thing about it is you start to notice players in duos to maybe 4 or 5 man groups and you realize how much you don't know how to fight like that from the congragation of a bunch of players in Vivec.

It grew to where you'll have fights now pretty even on both sides, with medium size groups and it can be a lot of fun, but its starting to look more and more like a Vivec light. You'll get the ball groups but then not a lot of counter ball groups to go against them.

And yes; one group can be almost anywhere once they control the map. Its not like you can go the other way and fight someone else. Theres not enough people to keep a group like that busy elsewhere so they're free to follow where ever you are.