Wha happened to pvp weapons

rteezy

i used to see streamers and guides tlaking about maelstrom weapons for pvp..and recently all i see is master weapons, now that i noticed them they do seem better pvp wise for the classes i play but, did anything changed? i didnt i hear about them before?

sucks cuz, i was happy i managed to finish vma so i could farm my own weapons..but DSA seems hard to get a gorup going..

kojou

The enchants were changed to set item bonuses and the weapon damage portions of the bonuses removed. Master Weapons have bonuses more useful in general for PvP.

VMA 2H and Dual Wield need a buff...

Rohaus

Remember back when vMA dual wield weapons were great? Then people called for the nerfs... nerfed twice now... RIP

kojou

Rohaus wrote: »

Remember back when vMA dual wield weapons were great? Then people called for the nerfs... nerfed twice now... RIP

The sad thing is the 2nd nerf happened after they weren't relevant anymore.

brandonv516

Because most of the vma weapons aren't worth it anymore for PvP...

They lost their additional bonuses.

Betsararie

VMA weapons are literal garbage now. You might as well just use your fists or the broom, because they were ruined

At least for stam most of us are using the Asylum 2H now, very easy to get (far easier than VMA), and one of the single best items in the game for PvP. Master's bow is a popular option for stamblade. More time consuming to get, but worth the effort.

Toast_STS

I like the maelstrom resto. The sustain got a nice buff

Vapirko

ZOS nerfed the flat damage bonus for no reason whatsoever. No one asked for it, not a single person. The only reason they could have had was to make people by CWC so they could have access to the now better Asylum wpns.

ToRelax

Vapirko wrote: »

ZOS nerfed the flat damage bonus for no reason whatsoever. No one asked for it, not a single person. The only reason they could have had was to make people by CWC so they could have access to the now better Asylum wpns.

The reason might have been that you can now enchant them? They're also still not bad. Quit whining.

lazerlaz

It's was a pure money grab for ZOS. Nerf vMA weapons to the dirt so everyone feels inclined to get CWC and collect that $$$. Scum move for those of us who have already been paying for years and would rather the old VMA weapons over asylum.

Enchants are weak in PVP compared to double dot poisons.

Sad.

raasdal

I can't understand how anyone could call vMA 2H "bad". If you are using Crit Charge as your Gapcloser, vMA 2H is probably the single best thing to have on your bar. Especially if are having it on backbar, which many people are (for rally / fwm). Unless you expect to be outnumbered 1 to 4 all the time, and spamming Cleave, vMA 2H poops on the Master 2H. Remember; Not only did they buff the damage proc by 50% - it will now ALSO proc your poison or enchant.

Mostly, ppl focus too much on the removal of WD/SD and fail to realize that many vMA actually got hugely buffed for certain PvP usages. Like the vMA 2H.

Xvorg

lazerlaz wrote: »

It's was a pure money grab for ZOS. Nerf vMA weapons to the dirt so everyone feels inclined to get CWC and collect that $$$. Scum move for those of us who have already been paying for years and would rather the old VMA weapons over asylum.

Enchants are weak in PVP compared to double dot poisons.

Sad.

Depends on the enchant: those that increase wpn/spell dmg are quite strong. Oblivion dmg also can be an option and lit giving minor vulnerability also helps. In general poisons are stronger but also more expensive

kojou

ToRelax wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

ZOS nerfed the flat damage bonus for no reason whatsoever. No one asked for it, not a single person. The only reason they could have had was to make people by CWC so they could have access to the now better Asylum wpns.

The reason might have been that you can now enchant them? They're also still not bad. Quit whining.

The Resto staff got a pretty good improvement for PvP, and the Destro and Bow are better than they were for PvE. The daggers/axes were already irrelevant and maintained their irrelevance.

IMO the 2H set bonus is not enough damage and the fact that is it s a DoT proc that can't crit ruins it. They only reason it was used before CWC was the weapon damage. If they double the damage it does then it might get some use again...

Currently it is "Critical Charge deals an additional 6000 Physical Damage over 5 seconds." that is a 1200 damage per second DoT that will be halved to 600 per second by battle spirit. Its better than nothing if you have the extra slot, but the Asylum 2H is easily a better choice.

Ragnarock41

Running a 4th piece gives me 120 ish Weapon damage which is much better than a situational, weak dot from a maelstrom crit charge.

VMA nerf was a bit too much imo. Enchant is meaningless when you consider you just lost a huge amount of damage and healing potential.

If you think vMa 2h was buffed then you clearly never used one.

raasdal

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Running a 4th piece gives me 120 ish Weapon damage which is much better than a situational, weak dot from a maelstrom crit charge.

VMA nerf was a bit too much imo. Enchant is meaningless when you consider you just lost a huge amount of damage and healing potential.

If you think vMa 2h was buffed then you clearly never used one.

You are HEAVILY overestimating the value of WD. I mean - really. You think that 120-ish or even the 189 WD/SD translates into "huge amount of damage and healing"? This is exactly what i referred to earlier. Try do run some parses and comparisons - or even just theorycraft the numbers. You will find that you have HUGE misconceptions on what WD does for you, compared to free proc damage.

That "weak" DoT will outperform 120 WD by MILES AND MILES, if you put it into your rotation. I mean, it's the same proc damage as friggin Vipers Stings. Yeah yeah, it is a DoT. Does not really change the fact that it is FREE and unavoidable proc damage.

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

ZOS nerfed the flat damage bonus for no reason whatsoever. No one asked for it, not a single person. The only reason they could have had was to make people by CWC so they could have access to the now better Asylum wpns.

The reason might have been that you can now enchant them? They're also still not bad. Quit whining.

The Resto staff got a pretty good improvement for PvP, and the Destro and Bow are better than they were for PvE. The daggers/axes were already irrelevant and maintained their irrelevance.

IMO the 2H set bonus is not enough damage and the fact that is it s a DoT proc that can't crit ruins it. They only reason it was used before CWC was the weapon damage. If they double the damage it does then it might get some use again...

Currently it is "Critical Charge deals an additional 6000 Physical Damage over 5 seconds." that is a 1200 damage per second DoT that will be halved to 600 per second by battle spirit. Its better than nothing if you have the extra slot, but the Asylum 2H is easily a better choice.

You can present any DoT that way, to make it look weak. The 6k over 5 Seconds is on par with all the other strong DoTs in the game, and is not weak by any means. But you first need to understand the strengths of DoTs and realize that you cannot judge it by the value of a single tick and trying to compare it to instant damage skills.

Ragnarock41

Keep lying to yourself. Vma 2h is always used with damage poisons because poison was and still is stronger than the tiny dot from the vMA.
On a min maxed build 180 Wd is a huge difference because every bit of extra WD you get scales with major/minor brutality. Every bit of extra wd means stronger hits,stronger heals, more pressure, less vigor spams,Its a win win. You just cant go wrong with a high WD build.
This is exactly why after that wd nerf 2h vMA is literally worse than a normal 4th piece.

Also viper is free damage. vMA dot costs 3k stamina to cast. I tried using it on cooldown and it sucked hard. Now Im a stamDk that runs a dot based build. Even I say it sucks. I would rather have an extra 120 WD so my REAL dots get stronger.

KingJ

raasdal wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Running a 4th piece gives me 120 ish Weapon damage which is much better than a situational, weak dot from a maelstrom crit charge.

VMA nerf was a bit too much imo. Enchant is meaningless when you consider you just lost a huge amount of damage and healing potential.

If you think vMa 2h was buffed then you clearly never used one.

You are HEAVILY overestimating the value of WD. I mean - really. You think that 120-ish or even the 189 WD/SD translates into "huge amount of damage and healing"? This is exactly what i referred to earlier. Try do run some parses and comparisons - or even just theorycraft the numbers. You will find that you have HUGE misconceptions on what WD does for you, compared to free proc damage.

That "weak" DoT will outperform 120 WD by MILES AND MILES, if you put it into your rotation. I mean, it's the same proc damage as friggin Vipers Stings. Yeah yeah, it is a DoT. Does not really change the fact that it is FREE and unavoidable proc damage.

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

ZOS nerfed the flat damage bonus for no reason whatsoever. No one asked for it, not a single person. The only reason they could have had was to make people by CWC so they could have access to the now better Asylum wpns.

The reason might have been that you can now enchant them? They're also still not bad. Quit whining.

The Resto staff got a pretty good improvement for PvP, and the Destro and Bow are better than they were for PvE. The daggers/axes were already irrelevant and maintained their irrelevance.

IMO the 2H set bonus is not enough damage and the fact that is it s a DoT proc that can't crit ruins it. They only reason it was used before CWC was the weapon damage. If they double the damage it does then it might get some use again...

Currently it is "Critical Charge deals an additional 6000 Physical Damage over 5 seconds." that is a 1200 damage per second DoT that will be halved to 600 per second by battle spirit. Its better than nothing if you have the extra slot, but the Asylum 2H is easily a better choice.

You can present any DoT that way, to make it look weak. The 6k over 5 Seconds is on par with all the other strong DoTs in the game, and is not weak by any means. But you first need to understand the strengths of DoTs and realize that you cannot judge it by the value of a single tick and trying to compare it to instant damage skills.

Its not a 6k dot its 3k in PvP. You have to remember since its physical damage its effected by physical resistance so it deals even less damage.Which means its trash.

raasdal

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Keep lying to yourself. Vma 2h is always used with damage poisons because poison was and still is stronger than the tiny dot from the vMA.
On a min maxed build 180 Wd is a huge difference because every bit of extra WD you get scales with major/minor brutality. Every bit of extra wd means stronger hits,stronger heals, more pressure, less vigor spams,Its a win win. You just cant go wrong with a high WD build.
This is exactly why after that wd nerf 2h vMA is literally worse than a normal 4th piece.

Also viper is free damage. vMA dot costs 3k stamina to cast. I tried using it on cooldown and it sucked hard. Now Im a stamDk that runs a dot based build. Even I say it sucks. I would rather have an extra 120 WD so my REAL dots get stronger.

LoL i give up.

Viper is just as much free damage as vMA. If you don't get that, i dont know how to get through to you with the rest.

Also the point was never wether Double Dot Poisons were stronger or not. The point was, that now you can get both.

(EDIT: But in case you did not realize, the new vMA 2H is in fact STRONGER than double dot poison, if applied on cooldown. It is pretty easy to calculate. 2H VMA on cooldown is 2 x 6000 = 12000 over 10 seconds. Poison applied on cooldown (10 sec) is 1 x 10000 = 10000 damage over 10 seconds (delivered in 3-6 secs). So VMA actually delivers 20% MORE DPS than Poisons. Only difference is, poisons delivers in a more "bursty" dot fashion. But is also not really possible to proc on cooldown as easily as VMA.)

But hey - enjoy that extra app. 200-300 damage on your tooltip spammable.

IcyDeadPeople

Some of the new Perfected weapon bonuses are pretty strong and certain Master/Maelstrom weapons got buffs, not to mention a lot faster to acquire with transmute crystals, but just depends on the goal for your build.

Sometimes it's better to complete a second 5 piece set, or 3pc willpower/agility, monster helm, etc.

raasdal

KingJ wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Running a 4th piece gives me 120 ish Weapon damage which is much better than a situational, weak dot from a maelstrom crit charge.

VMA nerf was a bit too much imo. Enchant is meaningless when you consider you just lost a huge amount of damage and healing potential.

If you think vMa 2h was buffed then you clearly never used one.

You are HEAVILY overestimating the value of WD. I mean - really. You think that 120-ish or even the 189 WD/SD translates into "huge amount of damage and healing"? This is exactly what i referred to earlier. Try do run some parses and comparisons - or even just theorycraft the numbers. You will find that you have HUGE misconceptions on what WD does for you, compared to free proc damage.

That "weak" DoT will outperform 120 WD by MILES AND MILES, if you put it into your rotation. I mean, it's the same proc damage as friggin Vipers Stings. Yeah yeah, it is a DoT. Does not really change the fact that it is FREE and unavoidable proc damage.

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

ZOS nerfed the flat damage bonus for no reason whatsoever. No one asked for it, not a single person. The only reason they could have had was to make people by CWC so they could have access to the now better Asylum wpns.

The reason might have been that you can now enchant them? They're also still not bad. Quit whining.

The Resto staff got a pretty good improvement for PvP, and the Destro and Bow are better than they were for PvE. The daggers/axes were already irrelevant and maintained their irrelevance.

IMO the 2H set bonus is not enough damage and the fact that is it s a DoT proc that can't crit ruins it. They only reason it was used before CWC was the weapon damage. If they double the damage it does then it might get some use again...

Currently it is "Critical Charge deals an additional 6000 Physical Damage over 5 seconds." that is a 1200 damage per second DoT that will be halved to 600 per second by battle spirit. Its better than nothing if you have the extra slot, but the Asylum 2H is easily a better choice.

You can present any DoT that way, to make it look weak. The 6k over 5 Seconds is on par with all the other strong DoTs in the game, and is not weak by any means. But you first need to understand the strengths of DoTs and realize that you cannot judge it by the value of a single tick and trying to compare it to instant damage skills.

Its not a 6k dot its 3k in PvP. You have to remember since its physical damage its effected by physical resistance so it deals even less damage.Which means its trash.

False. That applies to everything in the game, on the same level. The 6k tooltip is DIRECTLY comparable to your skill tooltip, or any other procset tooltip. You are not correctly understanding how Battlespirit and Resistances work. Or at least not how they work related to how comparisons work. Sure, the applied damage is of course not 6k. Everyone knows that. But the same goes for your 10k Surprise attack tooltip... Which makes your statement irrelevant.

Skoomah

Depending on the situation, Maelstrom or Master or Asylum will be best in slot. It's nice how good weapons comes from all types of content (solo, group, raid). They're all competitive depending on your setup. ZOS is moving in the right direction.

What we should all strive for is to be competitive in pvp against most opponents. If one setup dominates and is overpowered against everyone, then it's not fun for people who don't enjoy that set up or build or class or playstyle.

Overall, the game is in a generally good spot balance wise. Nothing is so powerful that everyone runs a certain class or setup.

Solo people have a hard time 1vX against 6-8 opponents but can still deal with 2-3. The game allows numbers that should take out an opponent to be able to do so. Overall, the best outcomes comes from group play which requires a good group of 4-6, sometimes 2-3.

It's an MMO so group play should be what is encouraged. Of course there will be zergs for newer players but after some experience, people tend to form small pockets of 3-6 player groups that perform at a good level.

The best setups in the game collect gear from all sources of content. Monster helms from vet dungeons, monster shoulders from pledge keys, crafted gear as base sets, vet dungeons for jewelry secondary sets, raids for unique weaponry, pvp zones for potion/poison materials. The game rewards you for being a well rounded player.

KingJ

raasdal wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Running a 4th piece gives me 120 ish Weapon damage which is much better than a situational, weak dot from a maelstrom crit charge.

VMA nerf was a bit too much imo. Enchant is meaningless when you consider you just lost a huge amount of damage and healing potential.

If you think vMa 2h was buffed then you clearly never used one.

You are HEAVILY overestimating the value of WD. I mean - really. You think that 120-ish or even the 189 WD/SD translates into "huge amount of damage and healing"? This is exactly what i referred to earlier. Try do run some parses and comparisons - or even just theorycraft the numbers. You will find that you have HUGE misconceptions on what WD does for you, compared to free proc damage.

That "weak" DoT will outperform 120 WD by MILES AND MILES, if you put it into your rotation. I mean, it's the same proc damage as friggin Vipers Stings. Yeah yeah, it is a DoT. Does not really change the fact that it is FREE and unavoidable proc damage.

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

ZOS nerfed the flat damage bonus for no reason whatsoever. No one asked for it, not a single person. The only reason they could have had was to make people by CWC so they could have access to the now better Asylum wpns.

The reason might have been that you can now enchant them? They're also still not bad. Quit whining.

The Resto staff got a pretty good improvement for PvP, and the Destro and Bow are better than they were for PvE. The daggers/axes were already irrelevant and maintained their irrelevance.

IMO the 2H set bonus is not enough damage and the fact that is it s a DoT proc that can't crit ruins it. They only reason it was used before CWC was the weapon damage. If they double the damage it does then it might get some use again...

Currently it is "Critical Charge deals an additional 6000 Physical Damage over 5 seconds." that is a 1200 damage per second DoT that will be halved to 600 per second by battle spirit. Its better than nothing if you have the extra slot, but the Asylum 2H is easily a better choice.

You can present any DoT that way, to make it look weak. The 6k over 5 Seconds is on par with all the other strong DoTs in the game, and is not weak by any means. But you first need to understand the strengths of DoTs and realize that you cannot judge it by the value of a single tick and trying to compare it to instant damage skills.

Its not a 6k dot its 3k in PvP. You have to remember since its physical damage its effected by physical resistance so it deals even less damage.Which means its trash.

False. That applies to everything in the game, on the same level. The 6k tooltip is DIRECTLY comparable to your skill tooltip, or any other procset tooltip. You are not correctly understanding how Battlespirit and Resistances work. Or at least not how they work related to how comparisons work. Sure, the applied damage is of course not 6k. Everyone knows that. But the same goes for your 10k Surprise attack tooltip... Which makes your statement irrelevant.

Not when it comes to pvp.This isn't PVE apply battlespirt to everything to know its true value.The VMA 2h would be great if it was a bleed right now its not.

raasdal

KingJ wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Running a 4th piece gives me 120 ish Weapon damage which is much better than a situational, weak dot from a maelstrom crit charge.

VMA nerf was a bit too much imo. Enchant is meaningless when you consider you just lost a huge amount of damage and healing potential.

If you think vMa 2h was buffed then you clearly never used one.

You are HEAVILY overestimating the value of WD. I mean - really. You think that 120-ish or even the 189 WD/SD translates into "huge amount of damage and healing"? This is exactly what i referred to earlier. Try do run some parses and comparisons - or even just theorycraft the numbers. You will find that you have HUGE misconceptions on what WD does for you, compared to free proc damage.

That "weak" DoT will outperform 120 WD by MILES AND MILES, if you put it into your rotation. I mean, it's the same proc damage as friggin Vipers Stings. Yeah yeah, it is a DoT. Does not really change the fact that it is FREE and unavoidable proc damage.

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

ZOS nerfed the flat damage bonus for no reason whatsoever. No one asked for it, not a single person. The only reason they could have had was to make people by CWC so they could have access to the now better Asylum wpns.

The reason might have been that you can now enchant them? They're also still not bad. Quit whining.

The Resto staff got a pretty good improvement for PvP, and the Destro and Bow are better than they were for PvE. The daggers/axes were already irrelevant and maintained their irrelevance.

IMO the 2H set bonus is not enough damage and the fact that is it s a DoT proc that can't crit ruins it. They only reason it was used before CWC was the weapon damage. If they double the damage it does then it might get some use again...

Currently it is "Critical Charge deals an additional 6000 Physical Damage over 5 seconds." that is a 1200 damage per second DoT that will be halved to 600 per second by battle spirit. Its better than nothing if you have the extra slot, but the Asylum 2H is easily a better choice.

You can present any DoT that way, to make it look weak. The 6k over 5 Seconds is on par with all the other strong DoTs in the game, and is not weak by any means. But you first need to understand the strengths of DoTs and realize that you cannot judge it by the value of a single tick and trying to compare it to instant damage skills.

Its not a 6k dot its 3k in PvP. You have to remember since its physical damage its effected by physical resistance so it deals even less damage.Which means its trash.

False. That applies to everything in the game, on the same level. The 6k tooltip is DIRECTLY comparable to your skill tooltip, or any other procset tooltip. You are not correctly understanding how Battlespirit and Resistances work. Or at least not how they work related to how comparisons work. Sure, the applied damage is of course not 6k. Everyone knows that. But the same goes for your 10k Surprise attack tooltip... Which makes your statement irrelevant.

Not when it comes to pvp.This isn't PVE apply battlespirt to everything to know its true value.The VMA 2h would be great if it was a bleed right now its not.

@KingJ - I know what you mean, but you are mistaking in the fact that anyone want to know the true value. When theorycrafting, you do not apply battelspirit, since this is a global buff/debuff. So it will apply to everything. Hence, it will only obscure your result, when trying to compare with the benefits of other sets - especially when comparing to WD. In this case, if you apply battlespirit to the 2H proc, and want to compare to a WD bonus, you would also need to apply the Battlespirit buff to that, making a 120WD bonus only 60. Because that is the actual damage it will add to your skill. Do you see how that only serves to make your calculations and comparisons more difficult?