Unrealistic to stop increasing monetization

ChaosWotan

Even if gambling in computer games is banned, it is very likely that games in the (near) future will be so advanced and amazing that game companies can sell exclusive memberships to owners of Platinum, Centurion, Palladium or Chairman credit cards. Not only selling items for $10 000, like we now see in Star Citizen, but also having a relatively large group of rich people buying these products, including gated communities, security packages, whole maps and dungeons. Average gamers are too atomized and passive to unite against this development. Consequently, it's most likely a waste of time and energy to protest against it. Ordinary players just have to accept this new reality (in the near future).

Turelus

This again?

I don't think your bleak future where divisions between the rich and poor happens the way you think. I play games with a number of people who make way more money than I ever will, and they spend that money on the games we play as well.

However we just get on and play games and have fun as gamers, we're not bothered about each others personal financial status.

Rouven

You think the yacht sales will go down? Or will they play on their yacht?

Let them! At the end of the day that will develop next gen thingymabobs and they will trickle down to ... well me!

ak_pvp

If it's cosmetics fine.

Radiance

Rouven wrote: »

You think the yacht sales will go down? Or will they play on their yacht?

Let them! At the end of the day that will develop next gen thingymabobs and they will trickle down to ... well me!

Trickle down economics are Historically proven Not to work so just... NO.

I'm quite frankly sick and disgusted by this apologist approach this post embodies. You lot are the type who make it not only possible but acceptable for them to get away with Predatory Practices, have some dignity.

[img][/img]

ChaosWotan

@Turelus

As you see, I have changed my mind regarding the divide between rich and poor players within the game itself. Because it's pointless being opposed to it. Like stopping a tsunami. It's unrealistic. If other gamers also recognize this, they may not bother writing angry posts in this forum about expensive crown items.

Well, think I go and buy myself a few new apex mounts then

badmojo

This is a silly notion that gaming is going to be lost to the rich. Basic economics wouldnt allow that to happen. If games started to only target rich gamers there would suddenly be a massive market of non-rich gamers trying to throw their money at something, making it very attractive for game developers to lower prices in order to tap into that market. If the rich focused game developers hit on a great concept for a game, sure they could gate it behind a massive money sink, but that would simply create a market of knock offs and clones. It happens in other industries, fake rolex or designer bags come to mind.

Thats not even getting into the fact that this is a massive multiplayer game and the richest people wouldnt want the rest of us to be locked out, who would make a big deal about how much they spent on crown crates?

ChaosWotan

@Turelus

Have not changed my basic values and opinion in this case, but my idealism is always balanced by realism, so when I earlier today realised that future games will sooner or later include even neural implants and holograms, it quickly dawned on me that many rich people want to buy this. It will be a market for it. It's prb very naive to think that one can stop it. It's going to happen (independently of the whole gambling debate).

Average gamers who protest in forums like this one here, will save themselves a lot of frustration if they just learn to accept that seeing an uber-cool item in a future game, sold for $10,000, is like walking down a street, in real life, and suddenly noticing a Bentley Continental Sport GT, without any expectation of owning a car like that.

@Balamoor

A cure against harrasment: game companies can sell security packages to rich players, with automatic company recording of any gamer engaged in bullying.

LadyAstrum

There's no doubt the gap between the rich and not-so-rich will widen even in games. Such is already the case, but it's not as noticeable yet.

Rouven

ajdawson18ub17_ESO wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

You think the yacht sales will go down? Or will they play on their yacht?

Let them! At the end of the day that will develop next gen thingymabobs and they will trickle down to ... well me!

Trickle down economics are Historically proven Not to work so just... NO.

I'm quite frankly sick and disgusted by this apologist approach this post embodies. You lot are the type who make it not only possible but acceptable for them to get away with Predatory Practices, have some dignity.

Not convinced - but don't worry about it, you don't have to (convince me). Many products/technologies where not meant for the public in the first place and eventually became common. I guess the easiest example for this scenario would be that most products are expensive at first and as the richest all bought them they go down in price. So just - YES.

In general I am not thrilled by the generic development in the industry in general. Everything not only want's to integrate you socially but also peacemeal and nickel and dime you in the long run. But it's not all bad, many standard programs basically come free etc.

The only scary thing to me is seeing younger generations taking everything at face value (because they will shape the future) - I guess that's what you coin the apologist approach, which goes both ways - take responsibility for your actions.

Wreuntzylla

badmojo wrote: »

This is a silly notion that gaming is going to be lost to the rich. Basic economics wouldnt allow that to happen. If games started to only target rich gamers there would suddenly be a massive market of non-rich gamers trying to throw their money at something, making it very attractive for game developers to lower prices in order to tap into that market. If the rich focused game developers hit on a great concept for a game, sure they could gate it behind a massive money sink, but that would simply create a market of knock offs and clones. It happens in other industries, fake rolex or designer bags come to mind.

Thats not even getting into the fact that this is a massive multiplayer game and the richest people wouldnt want the rest of us to be locked out, who would make a big deal about how much they spent on crown crates?

True, as to the MMO piece, the vast majority of players are environment for the whales. Take away the environment, lose the whales.

As to the rest, OP is not serious, nobody could make those claims with a straight face. Whenever a new technology comes out, the price is higher than the vast majority of people can afford, but a few years later it can be cheaper than the previous ubiquitous technology, with higher quality and miniaturized in some fashion. Flat panel t.v.'s were unbelievably expensive, thick and with less than HD resolution when they first came out. The other day I walked by a 55" 4k t.v. in a store, made by a reputable t.v. company, for $399... That's a far cry from the $10k-$20k of the early models.

Of course, the average player might have to fly to Nigeria and have a descendant of Mengele place the implants. Some things never get cheaper.

DeadlyRecluse

I will continue to pay money for goods and services I enjoy.

When I no longer enjoy paying for those goods and services, I will stop paying for them.

Of course, in this vision of the future, there is only the grim darkness of P2W microtransactions...

Balamoor

ChaosWotan wrote: »

@Balamoor

A cure against harrasment: game companies can sell security packages to rich players, with automatic company recording of any gamer engaged in bullying.

Maybe instead of being snarky you could I don't know stop hating on people you don't actually know for what they may or may not have

ChaosWotan

@Wreuntzylla

The point is that new hardware the next five years, decades and centuries will prb make it possible to create a gaming experience which is better than a LSD trip, created by artists that are just as good as Rembrandt and Picasso, with a storyline written by some of the best authors in the future. Members of the global economic elite will then be willing to pay a million dollar for the ultimate gaming experience of the year, because it will practically be a divine event, with countless of average gamers only paying 10 dollars to get a downgraded neural version, in the presence of digital gods = the super-rich who love the attention and worship.

Drummerx04

ajdawson18ub17_ESO wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

You think the yacht sales will go down? Or will they play on their yacht?

Let them! At the end of the day that will develop next gen thingymabobs and they will trickle down to ... well me!

Trickle down economics are Historically proven Not to work so just... NO.

I'm quite frankly sick and disgusted by this apologist approach this post embodies. You lot are the type who make it not only possible but acceptable for them to get away with Predatory Practices, have some dignity.

[img][/img]

Trickle down economics vs trickle down products are very different concepts.

While money flows upwards pretty much always, products and technology tends to get cheap enough for average consumers to purchase... to make the money flow back up again.

ChaosWotan

@Balamoor

Starting to get the impression that you have somewhat of a tendency to interpret texts in the worst manner possible. Please try reading it again with not so dark glasses.

TheShadowScout

I always thought the rich people are way more likely to spend their time (and money) in real life, where they can get all the nifty stuff for real...
...oh, you just meant the better doing working class people who cannot affrod to spend that mcuh in reality, but still can buy a heap of crowns and then feel "rich" in a virtual world like ESO?


Let's be honest, yes, there is monetarization - duh, the suits in charge want to see ESO turn a tidy profit, or they'll pull the plug and sell off the assets.
That's how it works.
But I truly doubt there it enough of a market for getting over the top in that one... so I expect it to keep at cosmetic stuff, super-duper mounts to show off to everyone how darn special you are to throw 50 bucks at a virtual horse, and eventually more crown unlocks/expansions like imperial race or Vvardenfell... maaaaybe someday they might even break their "no pay to win" declaration of intent, tho I will worry about that when it happens, not before.

In any case, who really cares about the cosmetics? As long as those who spend more finance the game support and evelopment for everyone else... why bother worrying about it? Everyone benefits in the end. The suits at ZOS have more profit to show, the better off players have more epeen stuff to strut, and the less well off players get more game stuff coded faster for their enjoyment as well.

As for the expansions... yeah, they were a blatant money grab, but again, so what? ZOS does need to show profits to keep ESO running... As for each player, well... don't like it, don't pay for it and do without. Just like back when people saw "The Elder Scrolls Online" in their favorite store - they could have decided to not buy it and do without. The ones who are here thought it was worth the money, and most still believe so I expect. And if not, they have moved on.
Why are we even talking about this?

Jade1986

Drummerx04 wrote: »

ajdawson18ub17_ESO wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

You think the yacht sales will go down? Or will they play on their yacht?

Let them! At the end of the day that will develop next gen thingymabobs and they will trickle down to ... well me!

Trickle down economics are Historically proven Not to work so just... NO.

I'm quite frankly sick and disgusted by this apologist approach this post embodies. You lot are the type who make it not only possible but acceptable for them to get away with Predatory Practices, have some dignity.

[img][/img]

Trickle down economics vs trickle down products are very different concepts.

While money flows upwards pretty much always, products and technology tends to get cheap enough for average consumers to purchase... to make the money flow back up again.

That works, to a point. However, companies artifically inflate prices a lot of the times if the demand increases and more items are sold. In theory it should work, in practice it doesnt always like that, and as we can see as of lately, things are getting more expensive and lower quality in the gaming world. By this logic you said technically we should have bug free games of legendary quality.

ChaosWotan

@Balamoor

Not spending more energy on trying to change your mind, so let's just say that you are right, okay?

Jade1986

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I always thought the rich people are way more likely to spend their time (and money) in real life, where they can get all the nifty stuff for real...
...oh, you just meant the better doing working class people who cannot affrod to spend that mcuh in reality, but still can buy a heap of crowns and then feel "rich" in a virtual world like ESO?


Let's be honest, yes, there is monetarization - duh, the suits in charge want to see ESO turn a tidy profit, or they'll pull the plug and sell off the assets.
That's how it works.
But I truly doubt there it enough of a market for getting over the top in that one... so I expect it to keep at cosmetic stuff, super-duper mounts to show off to everyone how darn special you are to throw 50 bucks at a virtual horse, and eventually more crown unlocks/expansions like imperial race or Vvardenfell... maaaaybe someday they might even break their "no pay to win" declaration of intent, tho I will worry about that when it happens, not before.

In any case, who really cares about the cosmetics? As long as those who spend more finance the game support and evelopment for everyone else... why bother worrying about it? Everyone benefits in the end. The suits at ZOS have more profit to show, the better off players have more epeen stuff to strut, and the less well off players get more game stuff coded faster for their enjoyment as well.

As for the expansions... yeah, they were a blatant money grab, but again, so what? ZOS does need to show profits to keep ESO running... As for each player, well... don't like it, don't pay for it and do without. Just like back when people saw "The Elder Scrolls Online" in their favorite store - they could have decided to not buy it and do without. The ones who are here thought it was worth the money, and most still believe so I expect. And if not, they have moved on.
Why are we even talking about this?

To be fair if 10 k ppl sub they have made a total of 1,558,000 € a year. Even with a non crown crate based store they would make a killing. This argument that they need to turn a profit is legit, but they dont need to milk it ( crown crates ).

Spacemonkey

I think everyone is losing sight of the ONE important thing. If you arent having fun and 'working' instead of playing the game, then you really ought to move on. Its a game and there is not a single thing you are 'forced' to do. And if computer games end up being a rich people thing, move on to other types of game (paper, tabletop, etc...) Sooner or later, someone will make a totally free no strings attached game because people like MAKING games. Just because some companies get successfull and end up with big marketing deparments that like dangling carrots in front of gamers does not mean you need to act like a whale and run/swim after it.

Jade1986

Spacemonkey wrote: »

I think everyone is losing sight of the ONE important thing. If you arent having fun and 'working' instead of playing the game, then you really ought to move on. Its a game and there is not a single thing you are 'forced' to do. And if computer games end up being a rich people thing, move on to other types of game (paper, tabletop, etc...) Sooner or later, someone will make a totally free no strings attached game because people like MAKING games. Just because some companies get successfull and end up with big marketing deparments that like dangling carrots in front of gamers does not mean you need to act like a whale and run/swim after it.

I actually am taking a hiatus from ESO and going back to Skyrim. This game has become too money grabby and obsurdly easy.

Wreuntzylla

ChaosWotan wrote: »

@Wreuntzylla

The point is that new hardware the next five years, decades and centuries will prb make it possible to create a gaming experience which is better than a LSD trip, created by artists that are just as good as Rembrandt and Picasso, with a storyline written by some of the best authors in the future. Members of the global economic elite will then be willing to pay a million dollar for the ultimate gaming experience of the year, because it will practically be a divine event, with countless of average gamers only paying 10 dollars to get a downgraded neural version, in the presence of digital gods = the super-rich who love the attention and worship.

The concept is not new, nor are my comments as to pricing. If you have never read the book neuromancer, give it a whirl.

I think it's safe to say that science fiction writers have dictated the course of technology. So, don't buy to many accessories for your phones, they aren't going to be around in the not so distant future.

Rouven

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

ChaosWotan wrote: »

@Wreuntzylla

The point is that new hardware the next five years, decades and centuries will prb make it possible to create a gaming experience which is better than a LSD trip, created by artists that are just as good as Rembrandt and Picasso, with a storyline written by some of the best authors in the future. Members of the global economic elite will then be willing to pay a million dollar for the ultimate gaming experience of the year, because it will practically be a divine event, with countless of average gamers only paying 10 dollars to get a downgraded neural version, in the presence of digital gods = the super-rich who love the attention and worship.

The concept is not new, nor are my comments as to pricing. If you have never read the book neuromancer, give it a whirl.

I think it's safe to say that science fiction writers have dictated the course of technology. So, don't buy to many accessories for your phones, they aren't going to be around in the not so distant future.

Then again a little after that we will get time-travel so ...

TheShadowScout

Jade1986 wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I always thought the rich people are way more likely to spend their time (and money) in real life, where they can get all the nifty stuff for real...
...oh, you just meant the better doing working class people who cannot affrod to spend that mcuh in reality, but still can buy a heap of crowns and then feel "rich" in a virtual world like ESO?


Let's be honest, yes, there is monetarization - duh, the suits in charge want to see ESO turn a tidy profit, or they'll pull the plug and sell off the assets.
That's how it works.
But I truly doubt there it enough of a market for getting over the top in that one... so I expect it to keep at cosmetic stuff, super-duper mounts to show off to everyone how darn special you are to throw 50 bucks at a virtual horse, and eventually more crown unlocks/expansions like imperial race or Vvardenfell... maaaaybe someday they might even break their "no pay to win" declaration of intent, tho I will worry about that when it happens, not before.

In any case, who really cares about the cosmetics? As long as those who spend more finance the game support and evelopment for everyone else... why bother worrying about it? Everyone benefits in the end. The suits at ZOS have more profit to show, the better off players have more epeen stuff to strut, and the less well off players get more game stuff coded faster for their enjoyment as well.

As for the expansions... yeah, they were a blatant money grab, but again, so what? ZOS does need to show profits to keep ESO running... As for each player, well... don't like it, don't pay for it and do without. Just like back when people saw "The Elder Scrolls Online" in their favorite store - they could have decided to not buy it and do without. The ones who are here thought it was worth the money, and most still believe so I expect. And if not, they have moved on.
Why are we even talking about this?

To be fair if 10 k ppl sub they have made a total of 1,558,000 € a year. Even with a non crown crate based store they would make a killing...

Looks like they must be raking in the cash, does it not? But when you figure out the tax men taking their share, and then all the rent, server upkeep and salaries they have to pay from it... all those people working there don't work for free, since they too have rent to pay and groceries to buy... and then there is the businessmen in charge, who have to justify that this is the best way to invest their resources... just saying, I can understand why they might want to widen the profit margin.

Jade1986 wrote: »

This argument that they need to turn a profit is legit, but they dont need to milk it ( crown crates ).

Yeah... I kinda dislike gambling crates, so I agree there. I don't mind overpriced-for-artificial-rarity stuff in the crown store, but I prefer a straight deal - "this is what you get for that price" kind of thing, not "pay the fee, roll the dice, see what happens"... personally I just wish they'd sell crown gem packs, then those who feel lucky can buy the crates, and those who prefer it straight buy the gems and then the stuff they want with those...

Wreuntzylla

Rouven wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

ChaosWotan wrote: »

@Wreuntzylla

The point is that new hardware the next five years, decades and centuries will prb make it possible to create a gaming experience which is better than a LSD trip, created by artists that are just as good as Rembrandt and Picasso, with a storyline written by some of the best authors in the future. Members of the global economic elite will then be willing to pay a million dollar for the ultimate gaming experience of the year, because it will practically be a divine event, with countless of average gamers only paying 10 dollars to get a downgraded neural version, in the presence of digital gods = the super-rich who love the attention and worship.

The concept is not new, nor are my comments as to pricing. If you have never read the book neuromancer, give it a whirl.

I think it's safe to say that science fiction writers have dictated the course of technology. So, don't buy to many accessories for your phones, they aren't going to be around in the not so distant future.

Then again a little after that we will get time-travel so ...

That's a little more challenging due to quantum mechanics, but I learned along time ago to never say never...

Some credible scientists have pointed to the flaws in our understanding of science and the fact that we run simulations every day to come to the conclusion that there is only a very small chance that we aren't a simulation.

I despise those scientists. Wasn't it enough to worry about roaming black holes, planets or planet killing asteroids entering our solar system unannounced??? Now we have to worry about not being real?

Balamoor

Spacemonkey wrote: »

I think everyone is losing sight of the ONE important thing. If you arent having fun and 'working' instead of playing the game, then you really ought to move on. Its a game and there is not a single thing you are 'forced' to do. And if computer games end up being a rich people thing, move on to other types of game (paper, tabletop, etc...) Sooner or later, someone will make a totally free no strings attached game because people like MAKING games. Just because some companies get successfull and end up with big marketing deparments that like dangling carrots in front of gamers does not mean you need to act like a whale and run/swim after it.

That would be the logical thing...but sadly many gamers have this mindset that every game must bend to their vision.
I tell folks the game is awesome....the community not so much, but that isn't due to the vast majority that just logs in plays their game and goes on about their lives, it's the handful of Zealots that can't stand to see someone have a pixel they don't, but just like in league of Legends...it doesn't take many to ruin it for everyone.

idk

Why this again?

It's simple.

1 crates arenof going anywhere anytime soon. Things like this do not move fast nor do they always turn out as some hope.

2. MMOs will always look for new ways to monetize the game further. Especially if one way is no longer viable. That's a fact and should be expected. We just don't know how thing will change ic crates must cease.

victoriana-blue

ChaosWotan wrote: »

@Wreuntzylla

The point is that new hardware the next five years, decades and centuries will prb make it possible to create a gaming experience which is better than a LSD trip, created by artists that are just as good as Rembrandt and Picasso, with a storyline written by some of the best authors in the future. Members of the global economic elite will then be willing to pay a million dollar for the ultimate gaming experience of the year, because it will practically be a divine event, with countless of average gamers only paying 10 dollars to get a downgraded neural version, in the presence of digital gods = the super-rich who love the attention and worship.

Hmm, where have I read this before... Oh right! Will there be a caste system of Professionals and Administrators, with police who wear reflective masks?

(The future is the future, science fiction doesn't have to come true. Besides, games will need a heck of an image fix before that "divine" experience can happen.)

KanedaSyndrome

ChaosWotan wrote: »

Even if gambling in computer games is banned, it is very likely that games in the (near) future will be so advanced and amazing that game companies can sell exclusive memberships to owners of Platinum, Centurion, Palladium or Chairman credit cards. Not only selling items for $10 000, like we now see in Star Citizen, but also having a relatively large group of rich people buying these products, including gated communities, security packages, whole maps and dungeons. Average gamers are too atomized and passive to unite against this development. Consequently, it's most likely a waste of time and energy to protest against it. Ordinary players just have to accept this new reality (in the near future).

Games won't get that good unless they stop with the whole "it's good enough" and they begin aiming for "It's great". At the moment, there's no business case "great", but there is for "good enough".

TheShadowScout

Rouven wrote: »

Then again a little after that we will get time-travel so ...