Not a tank issue

Penguinfan

Folks,
This is really my first post of any substance, but an incident in a dungeon run last night made me start thinking about how i play the game and with whom I want to play.
I have two toons, that is all. I have thoroughly enjoyed all Morrowind games since they started, and I stick to a single-player approach in ESO. I am a member of a large guild that takes players just like me...we enjoy learning together, playing, having fun...laughing at our deaths and exploring. It is a great and awesome guilde.
Last night I was in a group that was dropped in Blackhearts and as is usual...the leader didn’t talk, no one responded to Hello.....no one asked if their were any questions...nada....just started running toward the prize. Anyway, I know what I’m getting into, so I acquiesce and run along. Get to end fight...which is ugly and complicated for me since i have never done it. A group member says I am a bad tank after we are done since I don’t taunt. Two things - I don’t classify myself as a tank....the game does. Two, I don’t taunt because I have not taken one of the two skills....and I am not going to. I solo a great deal....I don’t taunt because I am not good with the mechanics. I don’t taunt because until last night, i didn’t even know it existed in the game.
Hence, my suggestion: include PURPOSE in dungeon finder. For example, you check the type of group you want - Noobs having fun....veterans having fun....training run....hardcore for the prize.....know your role....etc. You get the idea.
Mixing up people with different goals leads to unhappiness all around. I play with people who share my strategies and outlook....fun, social, respectful and always friendly. I completely get the hardcore player...I just don’t want them in my group.
So, there you have it. Thanks for reading.

Inarre

If the game classifies you as something you don't identify with, you can change what your class is. It will save you a lot of grief if you ever play in a group again.

Fact of the matter is, a tank taunts. That's like, if you get down to it and nothing else is expected, that's the tanks only job. So if the game is telling people you're tanking and you're not, people will be upset. It doesn't have much to do with the purpose of the dungeon run or the type of people and everything to do with your character being advertised as something they are not.

Tan9oSuccka

You have to select your own role assignment. I suggest using DPS instead.

Here’s a great tanking resource:

https://woeler.eu/

There are plenty of other resources to get you started. No one knows this stuff right out the gate (including me). Use builds already out there and change around based on your own play style.

TheDarkShadow

Don't bring up "but I'm a newbie, how can newbie learn if you don't want to group with us?" excuse in random group. If you cannot pull your own weight for a random dungeon, then find a guildie or even ask someone in zone chat who can carry you to group with before queuing.

VaranisArano

If you want to learn the Taunts available in game, here's a resource: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/382382/random-dungeon-event-tanks-dps-healers-know-your-taunts/p1

If you want to learn more about tanking, here's a resource: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/377221/tanking-university/p1

If you don't want to taunt and you don't want to learn about tanking, I suggest you change your role in the groupfinder. Everyone defaults to Damage Dealer, so at some point you changed yourself to a tank.

LeagueTroll

If you don’t taunt on a tank, as least pull 25k dps, don’t be a dead weight.

SydneyGrey

Penguinfan wrote: »

Two things - I don’t classify myself as a tank....the game does.

Sorry, but this is wrong. When you queue for a dungeon, you select tank, healer or DPS (damage). The game doesn't automatically assign those roles to you. In fact, if you select nothing, it defaults to DPS, not tank. I'm guessing yours got set to "tank" one time and you forgot to change it.
You need to make sure it's set on DPS.

Milvan

Penguinfan wrote: »

Folks,
(...) A group member says I am a bad tank after we are done since I don’t taunt. Two things - I don’t classify myself as a tank....the game does. Two, I don’t taunt because I have not taken one of the two skills....and I am not going to. I solo a great deal....I don’t taunt because I am not good with the mechanics. I don’t taunt because until last night, i didn’t even know it existed in the game. (...)

You assume a whole lot of things there buddy. I need to say that I'm glad that players with your attitude stick with solo-casual-scrolls-overland content.

But let me point it a thing or two. PUGS are not usually friendly enviroment, people just want the xp bonus etc and go away. Do you want to run a well coordinated group that communicates, explain mechanics and plan up fights? I suggest you to get yourself pre-made group with same expectations as yours befor pug'ing.

Also, why were you queueing for tank in the very first place? If you don't want to tank and isnt definitely willing to don't queue as a tank. Or perharps, if you queue as a tank and not willing to, at least be able to carry your group mates.

You queue as a tank and the others players expected you to do your role and you didn't.

Apache_Kid

You selected to queue as a tank and didn't slot a taunt. You're the problem. You're the reason why your group was having issues. Don't join a group dungeon group if you aren't going to play the game correctly. Find friends in zone or guild chat who want to play the game incorrectly with you don't force others to acquiesce to your play-style which is god-awful. You're literally refusing to perform a basic function that requires you pressing a button and looking at the boss. That's disgusting to me. Slot a taunt or don't use the group finder.

Penguinfan

Milvan wrote: »

Penguinfan wrote: »

Folks,
(...) A group member says I am a bad tank after we are done since I don’t taunt. Two things - I don’t classify myself as a tank....the game does. Two, I don’t taunt because I have not taken one of the two skills....and I am not going to. I solo a great deal....I don’t taunt because I am not good with the mechanics. I don’t taunt because until last night, i didn’t even know it existed in the game. (...)

You assume a whole lot of things there buddy. I need to say that I'm glad that players with your attitude stick with solo-casual-scrolls-overland content.

But let me point it a thing or two. PUGS are not usually friendly enviroment, people just want the xp bonus etc and go away. Do you want to run a well coordinated group that communicates, explain mechanics and plan up fights? I suggest you to get yourself pre-made group with same expectations as yours befor pug'ing.

Also, why were you queueing for tank in the very first place? If you don't want to tank and isnt definitely willing to don't queue as a tank. Or perharps, if you queue as a tank and not willing to, at least be able to carry your group mates.

You queue as a tank and the others players expected you to do your role and you didn't.

I respectfully disagree that I cannot play in a more versotle style other than the three that the icons on the dungeon queue offer. Regarding the tank designation on mine....possible i inadvertently changedit as others have suggested. That said...my point is that it would be more fun to be able to random group with others with the same goals. PUGS are not the sole domain of experienced players who just want to run for exp....how sad if that is true. Sometimes i stop for the view...

Wildberryjack

Was that you last night maybe? I was in a pug and the tank never taunted, he only DPSd, and everything was scattering in every direction chasing everyone. It was a hot mess and we kicked that tank in short order. If you queue as a tank then you better tank, or bye bye.

coop500

Look I'm a very casual player myself, DPS toons can't even break 10K DSP on a dummy, but it's fully understandable for them to get upset if you were marked as a tank and not taunting.

DiePainPain

Great job wasting time of other dungeon finders by registering yr non-taunting toons as tank and now to read this wall of text. Tanks are not only required to taunt the boss but also to be the first lead an assault on groups of mobs.

emilyhyoyeon

Penguinfan wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

Penguinfan wrote: »

Folks,
(...) A group member says I am a bad tank after we are done since I don’t taunt. Two things - I don’t classify myself as a tank....the game does. Two, I don’t taunt because I have not taken one of the two skills....and I am not going to. I solo a great deal....I don’t taunt because I am not good with the mechanics. I don’t taunt because until last night, i didn’t even know it existed in the game. (...)

You assume a whole lot of things there buddy. I need to say that I'm glad that players with your attitude stick with solo-casual-scrolls-overland content.

But let me point it a thing or two. PUGS are not usually friendly enviroment, people just want the xp bonus etc and go away. Do you want to run a well coordinated group that communicates, explain mechanics and plan up fights? I suggest you to get yourself pre-made group with same expectations as yours befor pug'ing.

Also, why were you queueing for tank in the very first place? If you don't want to tank and isnt definitely willing to don't queue as a tank. Or perharps, if you queue as a tank and not willing to, at least be able to carry your group mates.

You queue as a tank and the others players expected you to do your role and you didn't.

I respectfully disagree that I cannot play in a more versotle style other than the three that the icons on the dungeon queue offer. Regarding the tank designation on mine....possible i inadvertently changedit as others have suggested. That said...my point is that it would be more fun to be able to random group with others with the same goals. PUGS are not the sole domain of experienced players who just want to run for exp....how sad if that is true. Sometimes i stop for the view...

You can play a more versatile (?) style in the game, but generally in these 4-player groups you need to fulfill the role that you selected (which is one of those three). If you select tank, you can do damage and heal all you want as well, but you need to put the job of tanking first. Likewise, if you select healer, you can do damage, but your job as a healer/buffer/debuffer must come first. If you select DD, you could also heal, but your DPS must be adequate; in some cases, certain bosses literally cannot be defeated without a minimum DPS amount.

A lot of dungeons are easy enough to essentially ignore the roles if everyone in the group knows what he's doing. At the very least a taunt is still very useful even in easy dungeons so that the bosses can be held in place and not run out of AOEs so that the dungeon is completed faster.

coop500

To be honest, the DPS role is kind of the 'other' role anyway

Rescue78

This about sums it up.

Apache_Kid wrote: »

You selected to queue as a tank and didn't slot a taunt. You're the problem. You're the reason why your group was having issues. Don't join a group dungeon group if you aren't going to play the game correctly. Find friends in zone or guild chat who want to play the game incorrectly with you don't force others to acquiesce to your play-style which is god-awful. You're literally refusing to perform a basic function that requires you pressing a button and looking at the boss. That's disgusting to me. Slot a taunt or don't use the group finder.

Aurielle

Penguinfan wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

Penguinfan wrote: »

Folks,
(...) A group member says I am a bad tank after we are done since I don’t taunt. Two things - I don’t classify myself as a tank....the game does. Two, I don’t taunt because I have not taken one of the two skills....and I am not going to. I solo a great deal....I don’t taunt because I am not good with the mechanics. I don’t taunt because until last night, i didn’t even know it existed in the game. (...)

You assume a whole lot of things there buddy. I need to say that I'm glad that players with your attitude stick with solo-casual-scrolls-overland content.

But let me point it a thing or two. PUGS are not usually friendly enviroment, people just want the xp bonus etc and go away. Do you want to run a well coordinated group that communicates, explain mechanics and plan up fights? I suggest you to get yourself pre-made group with same expectations as yours befor pug'ing.

Also, why were you queueing for tank in the very first place? If you don't want to tank and isnt definitely willing to don't queue as a tank. Or perharps, if you queue as a tank and not willing to, at least be able to carry your group mates.

You queue as a tank and the others players expected you to do your role and you didn't.

I respectfully disagree that I cannot play in a more versotle style other than the three that the icons on the dungeon queue offer. Regarding the tank designation on mine....possible i inadvertently changedit as others have suggested. That said...my point is that it would be more fun to be able to random group with others with the same goals. PUGS are not the sole domain of experienced players who just want to run for exp....how sad if that is true. Sometimes i stop for the view...

Sorry, Penguinfan... the onus is on you to find players with like-minded goals, not the dungeon finder. If you queue as a tank and don't at least taunt the boss/keep it in one place, then yeah, random people you've never met before will probably get upset with you. DPS is much higher when DDs aren't having to run about like headless chickens because the boss keeps targeting them. It's less of a problem if your DDs are dishing out enough damage and are able to survive, but from the sounds of it, that might not have been the case with your group. As a general rule of thumb, if everyone in the group can solo the dungeon with ease (and without dying), then you can probably get away with queuing for the dungeon as a tank. If not, then you better make sure that if you do queue as a tank, you at least slot one taunt and have some way of keeping yourself alive.

Magdalina

That's...basically the equivalent of volunteering to be a gatekeeper in a football match, then wandering off to do a random dance in the middle of the field instead. While you may certainly enjoy dancing more than football, you're greatly letting down your teammates and that's not a nice thing to do

If you don't want to tank, the solution is simple - do not select "tank" role. The only way the game would give you a tank role is if you'd chosen it yourself in the groupfinding interface and yes, this is on you. If you do want to queue as a tank then yes, you need a taunt - unless you're running with friends who are fine with no tank setup - there's no question about it.

It is true that random dungeons (and even most vets) are doable without tanks and a lot of people fake queue tanks, especially with the event, but, again, you're basically making a promise that you know is a lie. By selecting tank role, you ARE pretty much promising "yes, I will taunt". Your accidental teammates may or not be fine with that lie and you may or may not complete the dungeon regardless but it's not really a nice thing to do. And it's a VERY not nice thing to do in vet dungeons.

Nestor

DiePainPain wrote: »

Great job wasting time of other dungeon finders by registering yr non-taunting toons as tank and now to read this wall of text. Tanks are not only required to taunt the boss but also to be the first lead an assault on groups of mobs.

Tell the DPS's that.

They go in ahead of me and make a mess of the mobs I am trying to gather together. Really DPS's, it takes less time overall if you wait 15 seconds for me to gather everyone up so you can AoE them down.

Jayman1000

Actually you are wrong, it is in fact YOU who decide what role you are in the dungeon finder. The dungeon finder has icons to click that specify whether your role is tank, healer or damage dealer. You can even select all three if you think you can fill all the roles (and yes this can be abused by egoists to get in front of the queue unfortunately).

Don't queue as a tank if you are not up for the task if required of you.

However your post made me think of two possible new options for the dungeon finder: 1) an icon to check if you are a newbie player/not very good/inexperienced player, so you will only be grouped with other that is grouped in this category or grouped with 2) the second new feature that is a second icon to check if you are a player interested in helping/carrying the newbie/not very good players that has themselves listed in 1)

Soleya

Nestor wrote: »

DiePainPain wrote: »

Great job wasting time of other dungeon finders by registering yr non-taunting toons as tank and now to read this wall of text. Tanks are not only required to taunt the boss but also to be the first lead an assault on groups of mobs.

Tell the DPS's that.

They go in ahead of me and make a mess of the mobs I am trying to gather together. Really DPS's, it takes less time overall if you wait 15 seconds for me to gather everyone up so you can AoE them down.

I let a guy die who did that last night. Kept running in first, so I stood there and didn't taunt anything. He died, then I started taunting.

Linaleah

Nestor wrote: »

DiePainPain wrote: »

Great job wasting time of other dungeon finders by registering yr non-taunting toons as tank and now to read this wall of text. Tanks are not only required to taunt the boss but also to be the first lead an assault on groups of mobs.

Tell the DPS's that.

They go in ahead of me and make a mess of the mobs I am trying to gather together. Really DPS's, it takes less time overall if you wait 15 seconds for me to gather everyone up so you can AoE them down.

omg, yes. gathering mobs in this game without AoE taunts can be a pain as it is. at least my Dk can pull some of them in one by one, my other tanks don't have that ability. let. me. pull. and for the love of all that is holy, do NOT sprint ahead of me, so that I have to try and catch up and sprinting means I'm out of stamina and cannot use half my abilities, INCLUDING BOTH OF MY TAUNTS. if you can survive what you pull? fine whatever, normal dungeon, i don't care, I'll hold the boss for you, do with trash what you will. but... most of the time, its the squishies that run ahead, die and then complain.

but I digress. as others have said, OP. select dps and pew pew to your heart's content. normal dungeons tend to be more of a learning ground type of thing, so they tend to be far more lenient if dps is not great. help out with healing of you feel like its needed. but unless you are willing to heal or tank as your primary role? please do yourself and everyone else a favor, and keep your role selection to dps. thank you

AlnilamE

Penguinfan wrote: »

Hence, my suggestion: include PURPOSE in dungeon finder. For example, you check the type of group you want - Noobs having fun....veterans having fun....training run....hardcore for the prize.....know your role....etc. You get the idea.
Mixing up people with different goals leads to unhappiness all around. I play with people who share my strategies and outlook....fun, social, respectful and always friendly. I completely get the hardcore player...I just don’t want them in my group.
So, there you have it. Thanks for reading.

You can pre-make a group in zone chat or in guild chat and lie to the dungeon finder as you see fit and queue with a full group. Then you don't have to taunt if you don't want to, because your group mates know ahead of time that you are not a real tank.

If you are queuing for a random group, then you should be willing to play your role in the team.

Penguinfan wrote: »

I respectfully disagree that I cannot play in a more versotle style other than the three that the icons on the dungeon queue offer. Regarding the tank designation on mine....possible i inadvertently changedit as others have suggested. That said...my point is that it would be more fun to be able to random group with others with the same goals. PUGS are not the sole domain of experienced players who just want to run for exp....how sad if that is true. Sometimes i stop for the view...

Again, zone chat is a good place for that. Or join a like-minded guild. There are plenty of people who stop to enjoy the view and listen to the quest dialogue.

I ran several dungeons with guildies this weekend, some on less-than-optimal characters. At one point I hopped on my Templar that's been healing for a while and put on her old tanking gear and queued as a tank. We were one person short in the group and we ended up accidentally queueing for a vet random instead of a normal.

It turned out fine even though I hadn't tanked in so long I still had Harness Magicka on my bar (which I can't sue without 5 pieces of light armor).

We had another group in my guild where my friend who usually heals decided he was tanking with an ice staff. It's all possible, but people need to go in with their eyes open.

So again, if you are not open to at least trying to fulfill your role, pre-make your group before queuing so that everyone knows what they are getting into.

Seri

Nestor wrote: »

DiePainPain wrote: »

Great job wasting time of other dungeon finders by registering yr non-taunting toons as tank and now to read this wall of text. Tanks are not only required to taunt the boss but also to be the first lead an assault on groups of mobs.

Tell the DPS's that.

They go in ahead of me and make a mess of the mobs I am trying to gather together. Really DPS's, it takes less time overall if you wait 15 seconds for me to gather everyone up so you can AoE them down.

I had the reverse two nights ago in one of my random normals - the (CP120ish) tank and both DPS waited behind me - the L28 warden healer.

Jayman1000

I think perhaps you could have presented your idea better, I feel most here have misunderstood you somewhat. I agree that it would be a good idea to be able to specify your intentions (if any) in the group finder. That's not a bad idea. Inexperience players that just want to train could queue up with that category and would only be able to queue up with others with that category. People who wish to read all the quest texts in dungeons could have a category too so they could group with like minded players; and super OP players that don't even need or want a tank could also have their own category perhaps.

exeeter702

@Penguinfan sorry amigo but there is little discussion to have here. You are responsible for finding a like minded group that will willingly play with the same level of expectations that you have when doing dungeons.

Based in your comments here, it seems you are neck deep in the "play how you want" mantra. That is fine and all untill you begin encroaching and negetively effecting other players time who chose to use group finding tools.

A tank taunts, its really that simple. If you accidentally had tank role selected, then that is that; adjust your role appropriately. Just understand that regardless if how you want to approach your characters build, there is an objectively inferior way and efficient way to play, and if you are submitting yourself to random players whom you dont know that do place value and try to play efficiently, the burden is on you to do the same or search for like minded players who enjoy playing there bosmer bow / resto staff bush wizards.

Interestingly enough, the next update may very well contain a tutorial esque system that guides new players in what abilities to go for depending on what role you want to focus on.

billp_ESO

I think the main functions of the tank are:
1) taunt the boss
2) try to steer the boss to face away from your team
3) use AOE DPS to gather and clump the adds so DPS can use their AOE's

And, try to debuff, heal, and buff as you can.

If you cannot hold the boss with taunts, then you aren't doing the main thing a tank does.

Penguinfan

Jayman1000 wrote: »

I think perhaps you could have presented your idea better, I feel most here have misunderstood you somewhat. I agree that it would be a good idea to be able to specify your intentions (if any) in the group finder. That's not a bad idea. Inexperience players that just want to train could queue up with that category and would only be able to queue up with others with that category. People who wish to read all the quest texts in dungeons could have a category too so they could group with like minded players; and super OP players that don't even need or want a tank could also have their own category perhaps.

Correct you are. I should have put the last part first. The post is a suggestion for better PUGs.....but alas, it is good to see that the ESO Hall monitors are out in full force, as usual.

neal_brasier

Soleya wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

DiePainPain wrote: »

Great job wasting time of other dungeon finders by registering yr non-taunting toons as tank and now to read this wall of text. Tanks are not only required to taunt the boss but also to be the first lead an assault on groups of mobs.

Tell the DPS's that.

They go in ahead of me and make a mess of the mobs I am trying to gather together. Really DPS's, it takes less time overall if you wait 15 seconds for me to gather everyone up so you can AoE them down.

I let a guy die who did that last night. Kept running in first, so I stood there and didn't taunt anything. He died, then I started taunting.

The sit in chair emote comes straight out lol

kargen27

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Don't bring up "but I'm a newbie, how can newbie learn if you don't want to group with us?" excuse in random group. If you cannot pull your own weight for a random dungeon, then find a guildie or even ask someone in zone chat who can carry you to group with before queuing.

Random normal dungeons are exactly where this should be brought up. If you are unwilling to run with and help new players then either join a random vet group or don't use group finder.

Back to the point in the OP. Would be nice if there were a few options when grouping. This would of course mean a longer queue to meet those needs. At the very least I would like to see an option to only go into groups that are just forming. I have all the gear and points I need and am doing the dungeon for fun. I don't want to end up on the last boss and be done. Would also be nice for the people that want speed runs to be able to opt into a group that doesn't care about role so you might get four DPS but they would all know this is going to be a quick one. Default would be leisure group being those who might have the quest, want to check every container or need to learn mechanics and practice rotations.

Waffennacht

kargen27 wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Don't bring up "but I'm a newbie, how can newbie learn if you don't want to group with us?" excuse in random group. If you cannot pull your own weight for a random dungeon, then find a guildie or even ask someone in zone chat who can carry you to group with before queuing.

Random normal dungeons are exactly where this should be brought up. If you are unwilling to run with and help new players then either join a random vet group or don't use group finder.

Back to the point in the OP. Would be nice if there were a few options when grouping. This would of course mean a longer queue to meet those needs. At the very least I would like to see an option to only go into groups that are just forming. I have all the gear and points I need and am doing the dungeon for fun. I don't want to end up on the last boss and be done. Would also be nice for the people that want speed runs to be able to opt into a group that doesn't care about role so you might get four DPS but they would all know this is going to be a quick one. Default would be leisure group being those who might have the quest, want to check every container or need to learn mechanics and practice rotations.

I never would use random dungeon finder if it wasn't for the event. Why the hell would I? If I wanna do a dungeon I'll do the dailies

Next, I'm gonna pwn that @#$&ing dungeon before the server crashes and I have to go through this whole nightmare second/third time.

N, during this event, I don't have time to say hello, we it 5 min before the server crashes