Real events COULD have real draw, you know.

Vimora

There is a bunch of games (MMOs) out there that do real events/festivals that actually bring a ton of people back into the game periodically. LOTRO, BDO, Rift are what immediately spring to mind when I think of in-game festivals to visit. They have unique settings, decorations, flora. Some games even have unique towns open just for the duration of the festival. They offer unique, limited-time activities, quests and rewards. The world literally changes, the game's dinamic changes as people flock to these events giving way to a cheerful and jovially celebratory mood. These are real festivals to look forward to, they bring people back, even people that are otherwise utterly bored with the game.

I can't seem to wrap my mind around the fact that a supremely popular and rich game like ESO can't do better than rng-boxes and drop-rate increases. It's an extremely lazy and unattractive way to do a festival. Special sales in the store? Really? Your events are all about being able to buy special fancy stuff from the cash shop? Plus, maybe running the same old content like crazy so that you don't miss out on some extra random loot turning the whole thing into a chore. I can't believe no one esle is disappointed by this?

Of course, I get that people coming from Skyrim don't realize that we are getting here but the very tip of the iceberg and that other (much more financially challenged) games manage to put out events 10 times better than this and that ZOS is fully taking advantage of people not knowing what an in-game event is supposed to look like. #greed #maxROI #abusive

Turelus

I think it's because the ZOS teams are always working on the DLC/Expansion content.

I can't speak for the games you listed but in other games I have played they didn't push content as often as ESO meaning they could put devs onto making a whole new map just for an event.
Although that said SWTOR didn't really do much in this regard and was close to what ESO has in terms of events (new NPC's and drops but not new maps).

Kel

I've had fun during each event ESO has done.
I started in 2015, and just came back just as the Witches event was starting.
Opinions are subjective. I'm sorry you feel that way. But I don't.
Your mileage may vary.
I'm just not going to complain about getting free stuff, even a lockpick, for a event. Giving things away isn't greed.

Beardimus

I felt the events have all been themed, Halloween, Jesters, Festive etc.

The onLy grumble I have is that the items should change each year and lock the old ones, and achievements out

Vimora

jabrone77 wrote: »

I've had fun during each event ESO has done.
I started in 2015, and just came back just as the Witches event was starting.
Opinionsare subjective. I'm sorry you feel that way. But I don't.
Your mileage may vary.
I'm just not going to complain about getting free stuff, even a lockpick, for a event. Giving things away isn't greed.

When you drum up hype for an upcoming event people will inevitably have expectations. Lont-time MMO-gamers will have expectations when it comes to these things. People that come here and see how awesome and well-loved this game is will have expectations. It's just human nature, in my opinion.

On the matter of complaining about free stuff... I feel that an event either should or shouldn't exist. You can't really call something an event, when in reality it's nothing but some drop-rate increase on some loot. I mean, it's kinda hard to explain, but you end up feeling that something was taken from you rather than given to you. Where there should have been an event, there was really nothing fun or exciting. Only grind. Hope this makes sense. I feel cheated, but maybe I'm just super entitled.

Turelus

Beardimus wrote: »

I felt the events have all been themed, Halloween, Jesters, Festive etc.

The onLy grumble I have is that the items should change each year and lock the old ones, and achievements out

As someone who missed all the events last year I can say the opposite. It's really not encouraging to take part in an event which is a repeat if you can't get the things you missed prior.
They can add more for those who have done it, but it sucks for new players joining the game or those who missed it in the past to see "well no achievements for you ever!".

idk

I have not understood why Zos does not design an event with new content such as an instanced boss and more. There is plenty of space on the map for such a thing.

While the events that have their own quests are silly quests, an event of some sort of invasion we are fending off would make sense and could have more draw. Special rewards available like a special mount that takes a lot of work to obtain and chance to get, maybe, perfect Asylum weapons from that instanced boss on HM and regular ones on any other difficulty setting.

Basically it would draw the casual to hard core with such a design.

Vimora

Turelus wrote: »

I think it's because the ZOS teams are always working on the DLC/Expansion content.

I can't speak for the games you listed but in other games I have played they didn't push content as often as ESO meaning they could put devs onto making a whole new map just for an event.
Although that said SWTOR didn't really do much in this regard and was close to what ESO has in terms of events (new NPC's and drops but not new maps).

Well, I have the "disadvantage" of coming from LOTRO. They put out 2 major content updates a year. One of them is sometimes a full-blown expansion. They have a separate team working on festival quests and sometimes episodic content. They have a separate team working on a 64-bit client. They have a separate team working on dungeons and raids. Last year they had separate teams working on character and account trasfers between servers and the physical relocation of their data center. It's a dirt poor game and they have their major issues, but they put out much more content (or what feels like much more content) than ESO.

EDIT: I guess if you factor in the quality of content, ESO's quality is much better and requires more work, but like I said the 2 games are a million miles apart financially.

Kel

Vimora wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

I've had fun during each event ESO has done.
I started in 2015, and just came back just as the Witches event was starting.
Opinionsare subjective. I'm sorry you feel that way. But I don't.
Your mileage may vary.
I'm just not going to complain about getting free stuff, even a lockpick, for a event. Giving things away isn't greed.

When you drum up hype for an upcoming event people will inevitably have expectations. Lont-time MMO-gamers will have expectations when it comes to these things.

I've played WoW for 12 years. Thier events are almost exactly the same, year in and year out. They might add in a new pet every few years...and they hardly give away free stuff, or increase the drop rate of stuff. Or Neverwinter..same deal. Just holliday with increased loot chances and special currency. Or Tera..I'm not new to this genre. I've played other MMO's and haven't found what you're saying ringing true. I am a long time MMO player. I don't have your expectations.
So, as I originally said, your mileage may vary, but it's not a across the board thing. I'm truly sorry you don't like it. But I've had fun, with guildies and randoms, and I'm thankful for what I've recieved in return for participating.

Vimora

jabrone77 wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

I've had fun during each event ESO has done.
I started in 2015, and just came back just as the Witches event was starting.
Opinionsare subjective. I'm sorry you feel that way. But I don't.
Your mileage may vary.
I'm just not going to complain about getting free stuff, even a lockpick, for a event. Giving things away isn't greed.

When you drum up hype for an upcoming event people will inevitably have expectations. Lont-time MMO-gamers will have expectations when it comes to these things.

I've played WoW for 12 years. Thier events are almost exactly the same, year in and year out. They might add in a new pet every few years...and they hardly give away free stuff, or increase the drop rate of stuff. Or Neverwinter..same deal. Just holliday with increased loot chances and special currency. So, I've played other MMO's and haven't found what you're saying ringing true. I am a long time MMO player. I don't have your expectations.
So, as I originally said, your mileage may vary, but it's not a across the board thing. I'm truly sorry you don't like it. But I've had fun, with guildies and randoms, and I'm thankful for what I've recieved in return for participating.

I get that and I don't get that. My problem is I got bored with the game and sorta quit (as in never log in but still keep it intalled). So I was looking forward to the events announced for November, as I hoped this would somehow help me enjoy the game again. So it turns out the only real event that concerns me is the one where you run dungeons all day (depending on characters and waiting queues) for rng-boxes. The same dungeons I had run 100 times each and got bored with. This is not making me log in.

Anyway, like I said, I get you on some level and I realize that this has more to do with me not really enjoying these games in general anymore. But at the same time, I meant what I said, lousy event design is a sign of out-of-control greed on the part of ZOS.

Elsonso

Vimora wrote: »

LOTRO. They put out 2 major content updates a year. One of them is sometimes a full-blown expansion. They have a separate team working on festival quests and sometimes episodic content. They have a separate team working on a 64-bit client. They have a separate team working on dungeons and raids. Last year they had separate teams working on character and account trasfers between servers and the physical relocation of their data center. It's a dirt poor game and they have their major issues, but they put out much more content (or what feels like much more content) than ESO.

EDIT: I guess if you factor in the quality of content, ESO's quality is much better and requires more work, but like I said the 2 games are a million miles apart financially.

I am really under the impression that Firor runs the studio extremely lean, in terms of development capacity. At one time, they let slip that they had three teams working on DLC content and that each team had about 9 months to deliver. I don't know if that is still the case, with the new DLC+Chapter, but I have to imagine that whatever they are doing, it is as lean, or leaner, than that.

I am critical of this, even though I get the idea of financial restraint and budgets. It just feels like ESO is a budget economy operation with dreams that are now far beyond what they can accomplish. I am not sure whether that is justified or not, but that is how it feels.

Given that I am paying for the 180 day ESO Plus, buying these Chapters, and watching them do what they are doing with the Crown Store and Crown Crate, it is a little disconcerting to feel that way. I am really hoping that I am missing something wonderful that is just around the corner.

phermitgb

I love LOTRO, and I'll admit that they really do make and effort to make their holiday events distinctive and interesting...

unfortunately, one of the reasons I left LOTRO was because of the events. No kidding. They're occasional fun when you're looking for a draw away from the regular routine, sure. But they're just as grindy, they last for several weeks and there are like a half-a-dozen of them now, which means they actually occupy a significant chunk of actual game time each year.

Halloween was awesome the first time 'round - the springtime event is always just a grind for a slightly different horse, chicken-punting and gopher-stomping are just weird, the bar brawl is fun for a few times and then becomes rather grindy - I really think the winter-holiday zone is nicely separated from the regular game world, but it too becomes a grindy repetitive effort for what I consider to be relatively goofy holiday themed cosmetics (I mean, sure, looking like a dicken's character transposed into the tolkien world of middle earth has it's appeal, but it's still not really in keeping with mood of the world itself)

anyway - I started to feel like every other occasion when I logged in, there was another festival brewing, and all I could think of was...*sigh*...which festival is running this week, and do I care enough about any of the stuff to do the same mildly interesting different questy bits 10 times in a row?...the answer was usually no.

anyway, I get where you're coming from - LOTRO certainly did put a lot more effort into most of their events, and the shire especially is a great setting in which seasonal holiday events make sense (slightly less so the elven gopher stomping) - but I'm glad that the ESO holiday events are short are relatively non-impactful - when I first heard they were even going to have holiday events, my first real fear was PLEASE, don't let it be like LOTRO, having a seasonal event for every major holiday that lasts for 3 or 4 weeks...I'll basically be playing non-stop holiday events...

fortunately, they went a different direction - yes, the holiday events are pretty watery-thin - but at least they're short, and I don't miss them much if I miss one

Apache_Kid

lordrichter wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

LOTRO. They put out 2 major content updates a year. One of them is sometimes a full-blown expansion. They have a separate team working on festival quests and sometimes episodic content. They have a separate team working on a 64-bit client. They have a separate team working on dungeons and raids. Last year they had separate teams working on character and account trasfers between servers and the physical relocation of their data center. It's a dirt poor game and they have their major issues, but they put out much more content (or what feels like much more content) than ESO.

EDIT: I guess if you factor in the quality of content, ESO's quality is much better and requires more work, but like I said the 2 games are a million miles apart financially.

I am really under the impression that Firor runs the studio extremely lean, in terms of development capacity. At one time, they let slip that they had three teams working on DLC content and that each team had about 9 months to deliver. I don't know if that is still the case, with the new DLC+Chapter, but I have to imagine that whatever they are doing, it is as lean, or leaner, than that.

I am critical of this, even though I get the idea of financial restraint and budgets. It just feels like ESO is a budget economy operation with dreams that are now far beyond what they can accomplish. I am not sure whether that is justified or not, but that is how it feels.

Given that I am paying for the 180 day ESO Plus, buying these Chapters, and watching them do what they are doing with the Crown Store and Crown Crate, it is a little disconcerting to feel that way. I am really hoping that I am missing something wonderful that is just around the corner.

Have to agree. Feels like this game is being maintained by a studio that is under-staffed and doesn't have much to work with. That is the only explanation that I can fathom for why the game is in the state that it is in on my platform (Xbox) and why some of these issues have been around for months/years. I cannot imagine that they are properly staffed and have the right resrouces and still leave the game to function as poorly as it does. I would assume that they don't have time or directive to do much looking backwards unless something game-breaking forces their attention there. All the little bugs that are inconveniences or cause time wasting go on unnoticed. I would love to see the profit margins for this game and the crown store/crates because I bet they are out of this world and we would all be disgusted.

Vimora

phermitgb wrote: »

I love LOTRO, and I'll admit that they really do make and effort to make their holiday events distinctive and interesting...

unfortunately, one of the reasons I left LOTRO was because of the events. No kidding. They're occasional fun when you're looking for a draw away from the regular routine, sure. But they're just as grindy, they last for several weeks and there are like a half-a-dozen of them now, which means they actually occupy a significant chunk of actual game time each year.

Halloween was awesome the first time 'round - the springtime event is always just a grind for a slightly different horse, chicken-punting and gopher-stomping are just weird, the bar brawl is fun for a few times and then becomes rather grindy - I really think the winter-holiday zone is nicely separated from the regular game world, but it too becomes a grindy repetitive effort for what I consider to be relatively goofy holiday themed cosmetics (I mean, sure, looking like a dicken's character transposed into the tolkien world of middle earth has it's appeal, but it's still not really in keeping with mood of the world itself)

anyway - I started to feel like every other occasion when I logged in, there was another festival brewing, and all I could think of was...*sigh*...which festival is running this week, and do I care enough about any of the stuff to do the same mildly interesting different questy bits 10 times in a row?...the answer was usually no.

anyway, I get where you're coming from - LOTRO certainly did put a lot more effort into most of their events, and the shire especially is a great setting in which seasonal holiday events make sense (slightly less so the elven gopher stomping) - but I'm glad that the ESO holiday events are short are relatively non-impactful - when I first heard they were even going to have holiday events, my first real fear was PLEASE, don't let it be like LOTRO, having a seasonal event for every major holiday that lasts for 3 or 4 weeks...I'll basically be playing non-stop holiday events...

fortunately, they went a different direction - yes, the holiday events are pretty watery-thin - but at least they're short, and I don't miss them much if I miss one

Fair enough. They've started adding new quests to festivals recently. I don't know the details as I don't play anymore, but I'm on their forums and people talk about it. Other than that, you pretty much nailed it, I couldn't agree more.

vovus69

I have some feeling that they are using proceeds from ESO to fund another game. May be Fallout Online, or something like this. They are clearly on the budget and tight schedule and quality of the content recently is awful. DLCs are smaller and smaller, content is more and more grindy. This is usually typical for asian mmos, which are on tight budget usually.
of course it is possible that they are just greedy, but without their balance it is hard to tell where money are going to.

-vovus

Alexandrious

vovus69 wrote: »

I have some feeling that they are using proceeds from ESO to fund another game. May be Fallout Online, or something like this. They are clearly on the budget and tight schedule and quality of the content recently is awful. DLCs are smaller and smaller, content is more and more grindy. This is usually typical for asian mmos, which are on tight budget usually.
of course it is possible that they are just greedy, but without their balance it is hard to tell where money are going to.

-vovus

This one knows.....



All The Kek

Defilted

I think the issue is lack of resources. The company seems to run the employee count on the bare minimum side. There is just enough resources to keep pumping out content. You can see that ZOS has a really hard time cleaning up the code and resolving issues. This is a classic example of any software company that employs a very low employee count. This is a standard way a company runs in the software industry. It sucks... I know from experience.

Unless the practice of ZOS's management changes and they see a long term profit of customer loyalty with a great looking and running game with a release of at least one new content release a year I do not think you will ever see the game firing on all cylinders. I am sure the the current employees are passionate and really do care about making the game great, but there is only so many hours in a week. A group of people cannot overcome a lack of resources. ZOS employees have lives/families and I am sure they do not want to work 24/7/365. I feel bad for them and wish them the best of luck in what they are trying to do.

Good work on getting the game back to a functional state.