Divine Souls of Tribunal?

Lucasalex92

I'm actually interested , what happen with souls of Tribunal Gods when they died , if u can for example use necromancy to revive them or bring them back as your servants or if they could be summon to unswer question like ghosts ? or if they have also power after death ?

Do you think they go Straight to Azzura's Realm ? as they broke her Oat?

MythicEmperor

They fill my soul gems.

VaranisArano

Spoilers for TES III Morrowind below!

....

In Morrowind, you can capture their souls. Because Morrowind did soul size a little differently than Oblivion or Skyrim, black soul gems not having been invented yet, Vivec's soul could only be captured in Azura's Star. And if you played Tribunal, Almalexia's soul can only be captured in Azura's Star.

Lucasalex92

Well , i would love to know more like "lore wise" what happen with them , if they got Punish by Aedra or Deadra for using power of Lorkhan's Heart ?

VaranisArano

Lucasalex92 wrote: »

Well , i would love to know more like "lore wise" what happen with them , if they got Punish by Aedra or Deadra for using power of Lorkhan's Heart ?

As far as I know, there isn't anything lore-wise beyond what happens or doesn't happen in TES III Morrowind. Sotha Sil is dead, Almalexia tries to murder the Nerevarine and the Nerevarine kills her, Vivec is either killed by the Nerevarine or disappears after the end of the game before TES IV: Oblivion.

MythicEmperor

VaranisArano wrote: »

Lucasalex92 wrote: »

Well , i would love to know more like "lore wise" what happen with them , if they got Punish by Aedra or Deadra for using power of Lorkhan's Heart ?

As far as I know, there isn't anything lore-wise beyond what happens or doesn't happen in TES III Morrowind. Sotha Sil is dead, Almalexia tries to murder the Nerevarine and the Nerevarine kills her, Vivec is either killed by the Nerevarine or disappears after the end of the game before TES IV: Oblivion.

VEHK has CHIM, so my money is on him disappearing.

There's a theory that SEHT managed to 'upload' his consciousness to the Clockwork City. While there is no real evidence, it is an interesting theory to entertain. It would certainly explain his silence to AYEM in the end, but again, it is pure speculation, although the Clockwork City DLC proves he recognizes Alm as a threat long beforehand.

Perhaps we'll discover all of the details in later games.

Lucasalex92

MythicEmperor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Lucasalex92 wrote: »

Well , i would love to know more like "lore wise" what happen with them , if they got Punish by Aedra or Deadra for using power of Lorkhan's Heart ?

As far as I know, there isn't anything lore-wise beyond what happens or doesn't happen in TES III Morrowind. Sotha Sil is dead, Almalexia tries to murder the Nerevarine and the Nerevarine kills her, Vivec is either killed by the Nerevarine or disappears after the end of the game before TES IV: Oblivion.

VEHK has CHIM, so my money is on him disappearing.

There's a theory that SEHT managed to 'upload' his consciousness to the Clockwork City. While there is no real evidence, it is an interesting theory to entertain. It would certainly explain his silence to AYEM in the end, but again, it is pure speculation, although the Clockwork City DLC proves he recognizes Alm as a threat long beforehand.

Perhaps we'll discover all of the details in later games.

I also thought that , yet clockwork city continue to exist , even in events of TES:Skyrim , that mean he must linger somewhere , weakened but still...or perhaps its his power that lingers yet .

and There is Daveth Fyr , who has "nearly Divine power" and is notice easly by powerfull deadra like nocturnal !

VaranisArano

MythicEmperor wrote: »

VEHK has CHIM, so my money is on him disappearing.

Your Nerevarine can kill Vivec, unlocking the alternate method of completing the main quest of Morrowind. http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Yagrum_Bagarn_and_Wraithguard

If you didn't take that alternate method and instead used the normal method of completing the main quest, Vivec later disappears after the game ends, eventually resulting in Baar Dau falling and the devastation of Red Year.

MythicEmperor

VaranisArano wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

VEHK has CHIM, so my money is on him disappearing.

Your Nerevarine can kill Vivec, unlocking the alternate method of completing the main quest of Morrowind. http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Yagrum_Bagarn_and_Wraithguard

If you didn't take that alternate method and instead used the normal method of completing the main quest, Vivec later disappears after the game ends, eventually resulting in Baar Dau falling and the devastation of Red Year.

Yes, I know, but that path screws with your health, and who's to say that he would be permanently dead? We don't yet know all the properties of CHIM, so anything is possible. Perhaps he can simply choose to insert himself back into the dream.

Don't get me started on the Red Year. It is a poorly thought out piece of lore with the sole purpose of bringing Morrowind fans to despair.

VaranisArano

MythicEmperor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

VEHK has CHIM, so my money is on him disappearing.

Your Nerevarine can kill Vivec, unlocking the alternate method of completing the main quest of Morrowind. http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Yagrum_Bagarn_and_Wraithguard

If you didn't take that alternate method and instead used the normal method of completing the main quest, Vivec later disappears after the game ends, eventually resulting in Baar Dau falling and the devastation of Red Year.

Yes, I know, but that path screws with your health, and who's to say that he would be permanently dead? We don't yet know all the properties of CHIM, so anything is possible. Perhaps he can simply choose to insert himself back into the dream.

Don't get me started on the Red Year. It is a poorly thought out piece of lore with the sole purpose of bringing Morrowind fans to despair.

Given that you can capture Vivec's soul in Azura's Star if you choose to kill him, there's a clear result for what happens to him in game when you take that path.

See, I think Red Year is the perfect result of Dunmer and particularly the Tribunal's arrogance. Vivec could have banished Baar Dau at any point, but he chose to keep it as a threat for what would happen if his people failed to love him. Almalexia could have told House Hlaalu to shape up at any point, but instead let them slide further into corruption resulting in their dissolution. The Tribunal could have ended slavery at any point, but no, inevitably the Dunmer suffer catastrophic defeat at the hands of those they enslaved.

In Red Year, the Dunmer reaped what they and the Tribunal sowed. Had the Tribunal been any less arrogant, Vivec and Almalexia could have blunted many of the worst effects, but no, Vivec couldn't give up Baar Dau, his monument to himself and Almalexia couldn't give up power long enough to make sure her successors weren't corrupt.

dodgehopper_ESO

VaranisArano wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

VEHK has CHIM, so my money is on him disappearing.

Your Nerevarine can kill Vivec, unlocking the alternate method of completing the main quest of Morrowind. http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Yagrum_Bagarn_and_Wraithguard

If you didn't take that alternate method and instead used the normal method of completing the main quest, Vivec later disappears after the game ends, eventually resulting in Baar Dau falling and the devastation of Red Year.

Yes, I know, but that path screws with your health, and who's to say that he would be permanently dead? We don't yet know all the properties of CHIM, so anything is possible. Perhaps he can simply choose to insert himself back into the dream.

Don't get me started on the Red Year. It is a poorly thought out piece of lore with the sole purpose of bringing Morrowind fans to despair.

Given that you can capture Vivec's soul in Azura's Star if you choose to kill him, there's a clear result for what happens to him in game when you take that path.

See, I think Red Year is the perfect result of Dunmer and particularly the Tribunal's arrogance. Vivec could have banished Baar Dau at any point, but he chose to keep it as a threat for what would happen if his people failed to love him. Almalexia could have told House Hlaalu to shape up at any point, but instead let them slide further into corruption resulting in their dissolution. The Tribunal could have ended slavery at any point, but no, inevitably the Dunmer suffer catastrophic defeat at the hands of those they enslaved.

In Red Year, the Dunmer reaped what they and the Tribunal sowed. Had the Tribunal been any less arrogant, Vivec and Almalexia could have blunted many of the worst effects, but no, Vivec couldn't give up Baar Dau, his monument to himself and Almalexia couldn't give up power long enough to make sure her successors weren't corrupt.

1. You presume that the Tribunal looks down on slavery. I don't think they actually do. They clearly feel that the old daedric religion of Meph-Boe-Azu was too hardline but they don't completely frown on it either. They only frown upon the 4 Corners of the House of Troubles and even then those 4 corners are meant to be resisted spiritually to make the Dunmer stronger.
2. I agree they reaped what they sowed, but so did the Falmer, the Left-handed elves, the Direnni, the Ayleids, and the elves on the west coast that were wiped out by the Ra Gada. Man wishes to hold onto life and Nirn. Mer wishes to destroy the bonds of the world to bring about an end of the world and a return to a spirit plane. The Tribunal view of this is no different, they simply have a man-modified view where the world is a great testing to return to that new cycle.
3. I do find it interesting that Divayth Fyr has near-divine power which suggests that he might be one of those unusual Elves like Syrabane, Trinimac, etc. It wouldn't be shocking to see him become part of Mer pantheon in future series to me.

Lucasalex92

i wouldn't be surprised if Daveth Fyr actually Accended to Godhood thanks to his power by obtaining some artifact allowing him to be equal to Deadra (or At least mortal like Aedra).

ArchMikem

All of their power came from siphoning it from the Heart of Lorkhan every once in a while. The power they hold is finite and not their own, so without the Heart to steal from, they're just regular Dunmer.

MythicEmperor

VaranisArano wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

VEHK has CHIM, so my money is on him disappearing.

Your Nerevarine can kill Vivec, unlocking the alternate method of completing the main quest of Morrowind. http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Yagrum_Bagarn_and_Wraithguard

If you didn't take that alternate method and instead used the normal method of completing the main quest, Vivec later disappears after the game ends, eventually resulting in Baar Dau falling and the devastation of Red Year.

Yes, I know, but that path screws with your health, and who's to say that he would be permanently dead? We don't yet know all the properties of CHIM, so anything is possible. Perhaps he can simply choose to insert himself back into the dream.

Don't get me started on the Red Year. It is a poorly thought out piece of lore with the sole purpose of bringing Morrowind fans to despair.

Given that you can capture Vivec's soul in Azura's Star if you choose to kill him, there's a clear result for what happens to him in game when you take that path.

See, I think Red Year is the perfect result of Dunmer and particularly the Tribunal's arrogance. Vivec could have banished Baar Dau at any point, but he chose to keep it as a threat for what would happen if his people failed to love him. Almalexia could have told House Hlaalu to shape up at any point, but instead let them slide further into corruption resulting in their dissolution. The Tribunal could have ended slavery at any point, but no, inevitably the Dunmer suffer catastrophic defeat at the hands of those they enslaved.

In Red Year, the Dunmer reaped what they and the Tribunal sowed. Had the Tribunal been any less arrogant, Vivec and Almalexia could have blunted many of the worst effects, but no, Vivec couldn't give up Baar Dau, his monument to himself and Almalexia couldn't give up power long enough to make sure her successors weren't corrupt.

To quote Vivec himself in TES 3:

"It's nice never being dead, too. When I die in the world of time, then I'm completely asleep. I'm very much aware that all I have to do is choose to wake. And I'm alive again. Many times I have very deliberately tried to wait patiently, a very long, long time before choosing to wake up. And no matter how long it feels like I wait, it always appears, when I wake up, that no time has passed at all. That is the god place. The place out of time, where everything is always happening, all at once."

This is what I was hinting at, but I couldn't quite remember the quote until I looked through his dialogue in-game.

LittlePinkDot

There were other writings not included in the games. The Trial of Vivec would seem to explain alot, particularly why Clavicus vile would have something personal against Azura. In the Trial of Vivec, when Vivec gets revenge on Azura for the fall of the Tribunal and the curse on the Dunmer, Azuras star contained the soul of a "lovely female form" that was in love with Clavicus Vile.
Vivec tricks the trial to summon Azura as a witness.
Heres a copy n paste, you can read the whole thing on imperial Library.

" Then Azura appears, "AZURA IS COME"

Allerleirauh says, "Gracious Azura, Prince of Moonshadow, Mother of the Rose, Queen of the Night Sky, we who are assembled here seek your wisdom, according to the ancient custom, on this your sacred day, the 21st day of First Seed, called Hogithum. We thank you for favoring us with your presence and we hope that you will indulge us regarding the matter which lies before us now."

Azura: "YES I AM PLEASED"

Nigedo: "Great Azura, Vehk of the Tribunal, known also as the god-king Vivec, has submitted himself to our judgement, according to Dunmer law. We understand that the Hortator Indoril Nerevar required Vehk and the other Tribunes to swear that they would never to use the tools of Kagrenac and that they swore this oath upon your name. We also understand that Vehk then murdered Indoril Nerevar and, foreswearing their oath, the Tribunal used the tools of Kagrenac to make themselves the gods of the Dunmer. Further, we understand that you swore you would cause Nerevar to return and avenge himself against the Tribunal and now your servant, the Nerevarine Incarnate, has destroyed Kagrenac's enchantments upon the Heart of Lorkhan, severing the Tribunal's connection to the source of their power and making them mortal again. For these reasons, because you are intimately tied to these events, and because you have witnessed what is long past as no other has, we hope that you will share your insight by answering some questions we have prepared for you."

Azura: "GIFTS? WRAITHRING SHADOW MONSTER CROWN STAR GOOD QUESTION"

However Vivec halts the preceeding, "Silence. There will be no questions. This is something different now."

Azura: "DEVIL DEVIL MOCK DEVIL DEVIL SPEAK NOT"

Vivec: "Rude spirit, you should never have come. Not here. Not to the world of the liars, where your power is fleshed to law, bound by the bones of the compromise. Shallow changer, whorescamp, say you that you rule dusk and dawn? Let me show you the power of the true Dawn, when Gods walked."

Azura: "WHAT? WHAT ARE YOU DOING? WHAT IS THAT I FEEL?"

Vivec: "I am the Thief of this World, with stars, and by my Charges I put you down."

A shadow leaves Vivec, snapping off him to wrap around the Daedric Prince, cracking the air as it stiffens.

Vivec: "With my Charges I put you down. By this Shadow, I call your neonymic forth, your chosen throne, sundown and sunrise, death and birth of shadow. You are bound to this place."

Azura: "WHAT NO DEVIL PLEASE NO NO NO"

Vivec: "How does it feel, Lord Azura? To so fully manifest here is the Mundus, stripped down only to your name? Perhaps it feels a bit like my sister did, when your machinations split her, name from land, nymic eth maliache velot, thoughtless save for domain. AE ALTADOON DUNMERI for my sister's madness I eat you."

Azura: "NO DEVIL NO PLEASE STOP"

Ainroyl steps forward. His eyes are dead. But he smiles anyway.

Vivec: "Do you remember which mortal you bound herein with your jealousy and your spite? She has need of vengeance, too. GHARTOK PAHOME."

Ainoryl explodes. "Milord...serve..." Viscera shower the crowd.

Vivec: "These are my people, Azura. See how they serve? You should have stayed replaced." Vehk nods to Nigedo, his bravest. "Nigedo, curse this heshe-*** as she has done our people."

Nigedo: "Lattice-bound creature of the Ever Now, experience for yourself the inexorable progress of the Wheel, know the drumming torment of Time giving way to Time and share in the despair of souls trapped within the Dragon's Boned Cage."

Vivec: "By this Lover, I call your protonymic forth, your secret throne, youth and return, the lover's morning, the loved one's end. You are buried in this place."

A shape unfolds from within Azura's Star and coalesces into a lovely female form.

"And so, the last of those you called "False Gods" seeks his revenge against you, Azura; you, false to me, false to all my people, petty and vengeful spirit, enemy of all my happiness. It is I, Azura, I whom you never thought to see again. You swore in the Halls of Oblivion that no mortal such as I was worthy to be paired with a Prince of the Daedra. You thought, by binding me within this prison of your own invention, to place me forever beyond the reach of one who can transcend the bounds of life and death - my love, my soul - to stop even my rebirth into the world in another form, lest we two find one another again. You have lost and I have won. But what I have suffered at your hands I will not forget, not though I die a thousand deaths and live a thousand lifetimes. It is your turn, Azura, Mother of the Blasted Canker, Stain upon the Night Sky, Prince of nothing but your own envy. May you be cast into outermost darkness and uttermost cold. May you cry out to those who loved you and hear nothing, not even your own voice. Never again show yourself in this fair form to the mortal fools who have been your slaves; and let what is offered to you be carried, steaming and redolent of spices, to my Lord's table. My Lord, my lover who would never have forsaken me, Clavicus Vile!"

Azura: "GAHAAAAA NO NO NO PLEASE NO WHATTTTTTttT NO DEVIL PLEASE NO I CANNOT"

Vivec: "There now. Better. How does one feel when weighted down by their heaviest of mysteries? When one gazes into their soul and sees their own eyes staring back? Perhaps it's how my brother felt, folding into himself like a prism until your darts were thrown, nymic sel sulimet elhnodidan, thought thinking thought. AE ALTADOON DUNMERI for my brother's wasting I eat you."

Azura: "I CANNOT FEEL CANNOT WHAT FEEL CANNOT WHO FEEL THIS WHAT I CANNOT"

In the confusion, some scholars tried to stop Vivec, but Vivec magically silence them. Then Vivec draws forth the antlers, breaking off one of its bloodied tips.

Vivec: "Recognize this? The blood, I mean, not the silly bone-frozen Bosmer. No? It's from one of yours. He died in your name. And so by the blood of this khajiit, I climb you, moon and moon, and Dance on your Tower. AE CHIM CE ALTADOON for my own revenge I eat you. AE CHIM CE ALTADOON for my own revenge I eat you."

Azura: "CHIM? HOW?"

Vivec assembles a spear from the bones of his armor.

Vivec: "Here, this is Muatra. Guess what it represents."

Vivec stuffs Muatra into Azura's mouth. Azura chokes!

Vivec: "YOU ARE BANISHED FROM THIS STARRY HEART"

Azura explodes.

Vivec: "HA HA HA HA HA HA I give my thanks to all assembled, my dumb, deaf dreamers! You've proven a convicing ruse for so long now! I would ask that you bear me no ill will for my use of you, but I am Vivec, born of powers which should have forever been unalike, Vehk and Vehk, murderer of the last and last, anon ALMSIVI, whose name is Alive, and so really do not care! HA HA HA HA HA HA My vengeance on this prophesying harlot has waited an age! I am DONE! Good night, my whirling, my snowskin, my silent doubter! Good night, the dead! Good night, the law! Good night, the madness and the worm! Good night, scholar and sword! Good night all who have spoken or lurked or cast stone! Good night, for Vehk and Vehk shall speak here NO MORE! This was my last gift to all of you, which as they all have ever been, was a gift unto MYSELF! The time of the Empire is come! Good night! Farewell! I am VIVEC."

Halted, Vivec says, "Oh, yes, the ringlet. What was this for, you might wonder. Here:"

Vivec places ringlet in his mouth, and a Voice issues out.

"He was not born a god. His destiny did not lead him to this crime. He chose this path of his own free will. He stole the godhood and murdered the Hortator."

Vivec removes ringlet

Vivec: "VIVEC WROTE THIS"

Vivec vanishes. And then the revenge of Vivec against Azura is finished. Vivec uses his own trial in order to bind and banish the Prince of Dusk and Dawn after what the Prince did to the Chimer/Dunmer and the Tribunal. After this event, the regular gateways to Moonshadow, the realm of Azura, is inaccessible. Whether this has to do with the unlawful incidents at Hogithum Hall in the Capital City or mere whim of Azura herself, no one can say."

WhiteCoatSyndrome

IIRC NPC chatter in Oblivion states Vivec was kidnapped by Daedra.

AtraisMachina2

ArchMikem wrote: »

All of their power came from siphoning it from the Heart of Lorkhan every once in a while. The power they hold is finite and not their own, so without the Heart to steal from, they're just regular Dunmer.

Yea this. Theyre just dunmer so you can put um in a regular soul gem

Konstant_Tel_Necris

MythicEmperor wrote: »

They fill my soul gems.

Sotha Sil escaped from such fate.

Kiara

While the Red Year is a perfect example of rough justice, I find Trials of Vivec a bit... Odd. I mean, this is written by MK, right? So it kinda explains its oddity, but why there is no other source of his Trial? When WWII criminals were judged, whole world knew about it and some people wrote about it. And trial of GOD? With only one not so consistent source? I may be mistaken, but I never saw normal written info about his trial, if there is any, correct me please I'd love to read it

Konstant_Tel_Necris

Kiara wrote: »

While the Red Year is a perfect example of rough justice, I find Trials of Vivec a bit... Odd. I mean, this is written by MK, right? So it kinda explains its oddity, but why there is no other source of his Trial? When WWII criminals were judged, whole world knew about it and some people wrote about it. And trial of GOD? With only one not so consistent source? I may be mistaken, but I never saw normal written info about his trial, if there is any, correct me please I'd love to read it

Trial of Vivec was forum RP event not only MK was part of it.
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/trial-vivec

tyjoie

Their souls aren't anything special, they just were able to channel incredible power.

Kiara

Konstant_Tel_Necris wrote: »

Trial of Vivec was forum RP event not only MK was part of it.
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/trial-vivec

I know and it doesn't make it any more consistent. :P