Ice Staff for Tanking, Feedback

phaneub17_ESO

If you intend to keep Ice Staff for tanking purposes then you're going to need to improve it a lot more than what you have now to get there on an adequate level.

1. Change Light Attacks with Ice Staff to explode when they hit doing 25% of the damage to other nearby enemies standing adjacent to your target, this allows you to get the attention of more enemies to you over anyone else. While it's not a lot of threat, it is the first threat the NPC mobs will respond to before random heals from other party members.
2. Change the Heavy Attack from a ranged projectile into a melee range AOE burst, similar to that of the Templar's Solar Barrage where it hits all targets around you in melee range.
3. Tri Focus - with this new Heavy Attack gives you something different from Puncture or Inner Fire; you now have an AOE taunt allowing you to grab threat from multiple targets standing near you. Second effect with Tri Focus, each target struck by your Frost Heavy Attack also grants multiple Absorption Shield stacks.
4. Penetrating Magic - I would like to see this also apply Minor Maim to the primary target hit by your Ice Staff Light Attacks. Rank 1 lasts 3 seconds, Rank 2 lasts 6 seconds.
5. Destruction Expert - Inferno Staff also restores 1800 Health, Lightning Staff also restores 1800 Stamina, Ice Staff also restores 900 Health and 900 Stamina.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

If you intend to keep Ice Staff for tanking purposes then you're going to need to improve it a lot more than what you have now to get there on an adequate level.

1. Change Light Attacks with Ice Staff to explode when they hit doing 25% of the damage to other nearby enemies standing adjacent to your target, this allows you to get the attention of more enemies to you over anyone else. While it's not a lot of threat, it is the first threat the NPC mobs will respond to before random heals from other party members.
2. Change the Heavy Attack from a ranged projectile into a melee range AOE burst, similar to that of the Templar's Solar Barrage where it hits all targets around you in melee range.
3. Tri Focus - with this new Heavy Attack gives you something different from Puncture or Inner Fire; you now have an AOE taunt allowing you to grab threat from multiple targets standing near you. Second effect with Tri Focus, each target struck by your Frost Heavy Attack also grants multiple Absorption Shield stacks.
4. Penetrating Magic - I would like to see this also apply Minor Maim to the primary target hit by your Ice Staff Light Attacks. Rank 1 lasts 3 seconds, Rank 2 lasts 6 seconds.
5. Destruction Expert - Inferno Staff also restores 1800 Health, Lightning Staff also restores 1800 Stamina, Ice Staff also restores 900 Health and 900 Stamina.

No.

AzraelKrieg

Anything to do with an AOE taunt gets an instant no.

Tasear

I would like better animations... why does frost and flame heavy attack look almost the same. Also why does it always go into a straight line. I mean sure it has to hit the target but make it look better . @ZOS_RichLambert my complaint .

Now if I was attempting a pure frost staff tank this what I would "try"

Undaunted Bastion Set

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 1935 Physical Resistance

(4 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance

(5 items) When you taunt an enemy while you are under 60% Health, gain a damage shield that absorbs 13760 damage for 6 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.


Whitestrake's Retribution

(2 items) Adds 1064 Maximum Health

(3 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance

(4 items) Adds 129 Health Recovery

(5 items) When you take damage while you are under 30% Health, you gain a damage shield that absorbs 10320 damage for 8 seconds. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.


So the weakness off ice tanks is speed of the taunt, so if I was to "try" such a thing then I would capitalize on slowing enemies down. Maybe use destructive touch, caltrops and wall of elements.

I kinda like this idea

Penetrating Magic - I would like to see this also apply Minor Maim to the primary target hit by your Ice Staff Light Attacks. Rank 1 lasts 3 seconds, Rank 2 lasts 6 seconds.

This makes sense though how that would work in pvp...I really can't say.

Yakidafi

No pls.
Aoe taunt did sound cool but not when I think about it. I like my 2nd bar frost staff for magicka regen as it is no cost range taunt I like too.

zyk

meh. I don't think there should be tanking parity between One Hand and Shield and the Frost staff. The skill line is called Destruction Staff because it's fundamentally offensive and should remain so.

I don't think it's intended to be as good an option for serious tanking as 1HS, but rather to provide a Magicka alternative for Blocking.

Besides, what do you mean by tanking? Outside of Trials, a Magicka DPS build can tank pretty much everything.

AE taunts are a bad idea and completely unnecessary.

klowdy1

zyk wrote: »

meh. I don't think there should be tanking parity between One Hand and Shield and the Frost staff. The skill line is called Destruction Staff because it's fundamentally offensive and should remain so.

I don't think it's intended to be as good an option for serious tanking as 1HS, but rather to provide a Magicka alternative for Blocking.

Besides, what do you mean by tanking? Outside of Trials, a Magicka DPS build can tank pretty much everything.

AE taunts are a bad idea and completely unnecessary.

Ever since they first changed frost staff, I thought there should be a new skill line for it, like resto staves. They could focus it to much tankier, while keeping the destruction skill line untouched.

Liofa

See this video .

Go to 34:40 . As Wrobel says there , they don't want people to think ''I have to use Frost Staff'' . It is more for doing different things if you want to . When it first came out , no one really needed it and it sucked but now , people actually use it .

See here for example . It doesn't make you incredibly tanky , as it shouldn't because it is a fricking staff . What it does is , it allows you to have bit more utility . Ranged interrupting is a really nice thing for tanks to use . On Hel Ra for example , you can interrupt Flame Shapers from range and switch to 1h/s bar before the thousand cuts attack from Warrior . Same for the right side for in Hel Ra . Especially for tanks , it is very valuable because your DDs will want to continue doing DPS instead of doing other stuff like interrupting adds . Using a staff on back bar , you can do that yourself so that your DDs can continue without breaking their rotation .

Also , it boosts sustain for specific builds . When you are out of stamina , you can swap to Frost Staff and restore Stamina while using magicka for blocking instead . When your Stamina is back up again , switch to 1h/s and restore Magicka . Repeat until fight is over . Of course this will require very passive gameplay since you will want your Magicka for blocking only but you know what I mean .

I think Frost Staff is in a good place . Of course , it can be better with some adjustments . I don't think it should make you tankier . And hell no to the AOE taunt suggestion . That's just absurd . I assume you are not into trials . In a trial environment , it is very very important to taunt specific things only . As you will have 2 tanks , if you taunt something you are not supposed to , it will cause chaos and eventually wipe . And in pledges , you are not supposed to taunt everything . You use CC instead . That's how pledge tanking works . Just taunt hard-hitting things and bosses and CC the rest .

I would like some improvements as well but definitely not those things you said . Lots of feedback given during the PTS but no changes have been made . I don't think they want it to be stronger than it is now . It does what you should be using it for (interrupting without dropping tankiness) and I think that's enough .

DeHei

Only good thing, would be a faster charge of heavy attacks similar to melee weapons.. just 0,3 sec slower..

hydrocynus

There is a skill in the Wardens winter embrace skill line that can be morphed to be the ice equivalent of the Dragonknights skill called eruption which has been used a lot by tanks to grab initial aggro (if caltrops not used).

Templars have that radiant aura that will aggro an entire dungeon with one cast.

Sorts and Nightblades I guess arent covered but could be cos I know them less. I guess if your group allowed you to cast your ice version of elemental blockade first you could grab initial aggro that way.

The point is that you don't need the destro staff line to have a skill that will grab initial aggro for you. There are options.

Maura_Neysa

zyk wrote: »

meh. I don't think there should be tanking parity between One Hand and Shield and the Frost staff. The skill line is called Destruction Staff because it's fundamentally offensive and should remain so.

I don't think it's intended to be as good an option for serious tanking as 1HS, but rather to provide a Magicka alternative for Blocking.

Besides, what do you mean by tanking? Outside of Trials, a Magicka DPS build can tank pretty much everything.

AE taunts are a bad idea and completely unnecessary.

I Vet Trials tank with an Ice Staff back bar

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

If you intend to keep Ice Staff for tanking purposes then you're going to need to improve it a lot more than what you have now to get there on an adequate level.

1. Change Light Attacks with Ice Staff to explode when they hit doing 25% of the damage to other nearby enemies standing adjacent to your target, this allows you to get the attention of more enemies to you over anyone else. While it's not a lot of threat, it is the first threat the NPC mobs will respond to before random heals from other party members.
2. Change the Heavy Attack from a ranged projectile into a melee range AOE burst, similar to that of the Templar's Solar Barrage where it hits all targets around you in melee range.
3. Tri Focus - with this new Heavy Attack gives you something different from Puncture or Inner Fire; you now have an AOE taunt allowing you to grab threat from multiple targets standing near you. Second effect with Tri Focus, each target struck by your Frost Heavy Attack also grants multiple Absorption Shield stacks.
4. Penetrating Magic - I would like to see this also apply Minor Maim to the primary target hit by your Ice Staff Light Attacks. Rank 1 lasts 3 seconds, Rank 2 lasts 6 seconds.
5. Destruction Expert - Inferno Staff also restores 1800 Health, Lightning Staff also restores 1800 Stamina, Ice Staff also restores 900 Health and 900 Stamina.

1. Thats just a Lighting Staff. Besides if that's what you want, drop Wall of Elements
2. I like the idea of a AOE heavy, would be especially interesting for resource restore from a target not directly in front of you.
3. NO AOE taunts. My main is a tank. AOE taunts would break tanking. Absorption Shield - meh
4. Ice Staff secondary is Chilled, Chilled applies Minor Maim already. I'm very happy with the way Chilled works
5. No weapon should restore health, especially not that much. Why would Lighting Staff users want Stamina? Ice Staff restoring both magicka and stamina equal to the current magicka restored is something interesting

Maura_Neysa

Liofa wrote: »

See this video .

Go to 34:40 . As Wrobel says there , they don't want people to think ''I have to use Frost Staff'' . It is more for doing different things if you want to . When it first came out , no one really needed it and it sucked but now , people actually use it .

See here for example . It doesn't make you incredibly tanky , as it shouldn't because it is a fricking staff . What it does is , it allows you to have bit more utility . Ranged interrupting is a really nice thing for tanks to use . On Hel Ra for example , you can interrupt Flame Shapers from range and switch to 1h/s bar before the thousand cuts attack from Warrior . Same for the right side for in Hel Ra . Especially for tanks , it is very valuable because your DDs will want to continue doing DPS instead of doing other stuff like interrupting adds . Using a staff on back bar , you can do that yourself so that your DDs can continue without breaking their rotation .

Also , it boosts sustain for specific builds . When you are out of stamina , you can swap to Frost Staff and restore Stamina while using magicka for blocking instead . When your Stamina is back up again , switch to 1h/s and restore Magicka . Repeat until fight is over . Of course this will require very passive gameplay since you will want your Magicka for blocking only but you know what I mean .

I think Frost Staff is in a good place . Of course , it can be better with some adjustments . I don't think it should make you tankier . And hell no to the AOE taunt suggestion . That's just absurd . I assume you are not into trials . In a trial environment , it is very very important to taunt specific things only . As you will have 2 tanks , if you taunt something you are not supposed to , it will cause chaos and eventually wipe . And in pledges , you are not supposed to taunt everything . You use CC instead . That's how pledge tanking works . Just taunt hard-hitting things and bosses and CC the rest . .

I agree with a lot of this. I don't want to see the Ice Staff turned into a 1H/S. However I do think it needs to have more strengths.

For example the 1h/S extra 15% against projectiles against projectiles...
(I think they should change the Ice Staff block to be the same animation as the 1H/S, with the staff in the right hand, and in the left rez and Ice Shield)
... Projectiles would "break the Ice Shield" (not suggesting they actually do)

1H/S advantages
36% reduced block cost (6% more than Ice Staff)
15% additional block of projectiles
60% increased movement speed while blocking
Bash does 100% and cost 40% less stamina

Ice Staff advantages
Change block cost
Magicka restore on kills
Damage Shield
Increased chance of applying Chilled (Minor Maim and a chance to root)

What it needs still
A counter to Battle Field Mobility (block movement speed) Something like reduced effectiveness of snares
Counter to the 15% mitigation of ranged. Something like an enemy that melees a blocking Ice Staff gets Chilled (Would make the Ice Staff weaker against range, but stronger against melee

teladoy

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

If you intend to keep Ice Staff for tanking purposes then you're going to need to improve it a lot more than what you have now to get there on an adequate level.

1. Change Light Attacks with Ice Staff to explode when they hit doing 25% of the damage to other nearby enemies standing adjacent to your target, this allows you to get the attention of more enemies to you over anyone else. While it's not a lot of threat, it is the first threat the NPC mobs will respond to before random heals from other party members.
2. Change the Heavy Attack from a ranged projectile into a melee range AOE burst, similar to that of the Templar's Solar Barrage where it hits all targets around you in melee range.
3. Tri Focus - with this new Heavy Attack gives you something different from Puncture or Inner Fire; you now have an AOE taunt allowing you to grab threat from multiple targets standing near you. Second effect with Tri Focus, each target struck by your Frost Heavy Attack also grants multiple Absorption Shield stacks.
4. Penetrating Magic - I would like to see this also apply Minor Maim to the primary target hit by your Ice Staff Light Attacks. Rank 1 lasts 3 seconds, Rank 2 lasts 6 seconds.
5. Destruction Expert - Inferno Staff also restores 1800 Health, Lightning Staff also restores 1800 Stamina, Ice Staff also restores 900 Health and 900 Stamina.

Nooooooo!

Domander

It should have a different "cooler" (pun intended) blocking animation

RavenSworn

Some frost staff tanking suggestions:

- Make frost abilities have a buff to attack speed. Basically faster animations for the heavy / medium attack and as a buff in the tri focus passive.
- reduce the taunt decay for frost staff to 5s, in line with the faster animation attacks OR
- take away the taunt mechanic from heavy attacks and slot it with elemental susceptibility or elemental Drain. This will keep the taunts away from the regular attacks, add major breach to the ice taunt (which will bring it up to the Sword and shield taunt level, not as good but better than current iteration.) and ensures the dps capabilities of frost staff is not affected.
- change the 'iceball' animation to an ice spike.

I love frost staff tanking don't get me wrong. The health shield that you receive from the heavy attack scales really well with health based tanks, and coupled with an ice warden, it's really quite viable in vet dungeons or trials but for new players, it's a bit of a doozy. Too many newbies mistook the frost heavy attack as a good way to increase dps.

With this change, all 3 elemental school can dps, while having a secondary effect (fire single target, lightning multiple target, frost attack speed). This will also add variety to the choice of gear for ice staff users. Imagine a fast heavy attack speed build with the elegance set.

The sword and shield should almost always be a primary tool for tanking but frost staff needs to at least be on par, if not close to it. Right now, inner fire is a much much better way to range taunt.

Maura_Neysa

RavenSworn wrote: »

Some frost staff tanking suggestions:

- Make frost abilities have a buff to attack speed. Basically faster animations for the heavy / medium attack and as a buff in the tri focus passive.
- reduce the taunt decay for frost staff to 5s, in line with the faster animation attacks OR
- take away the taunt mechanic from heavy attacks and slot it with elemental susceptibility or elemental Drain. This will keep the taunts away from the regular attacks, add major breach to the ice taunt (which will bring it up to the Sword and shield taunt level, not as good but better than current iteration.) and ensures the dps capabilities of frost staff is not affected.
- change the 'iceball' animation to an ice spike.

I love frost staff tanking don't get me wrong. The health shield that you receive from the heavy attack scales really well with health based tanks, and coupled with an ice warden, it's really quite viable in vet dungeons or trials but for new players, it's a bit of a doozy. Too many newbies mistook the frost heavy attack as a good way to increase dps.

With this change, all 3 elemental school can dps, while having a secondary effect (fire single target, lightning multiple target, frost attack speed). This will also add variety to the choice of gear for ice staff users. Imagine a fast heavy attack speed build with the elegance set.

The sword and shield should almost always be a primary tool for tanking but frost staff needs to at least be on par, if not close to it. Right now, inner fire is a much much better way to range taunt.

- I could get behind most of these changes. I run 1H/S & Frost Staff, but I don't take Tri Focus so my Blocking always cost stamina. Pierce armor is my primary taunt, with Inner Fire for range.
- Because of my build the biggest draw back I find is the lack of the Battle Field Mobility passive.
- If you are Warden Frost Staff tanking you have access to Major Fracture already, as do Nightblade Tanks
- You cant add the taunt to Ele Drain. Its a main stay on most healers and many DPS builds.
- Personally I say drop the taunt. 1H/S doesn't taunt, however I DO NOT want Block costing magikca to be a forced effect either.

VaranisArano

1. You need to be making use of the AOEs you already have. A tank should be initiating the fight with an aoe or crowd control. Ice staff Wall of Elements fits the bill already.

We already have a thread about AOE taunts. The problem with an AOE taunt is that it makes tanking incredibly boring. You taunt and block. Taunt everything, hold permablock.

If I have a change to be made, I'd increase the speed of a Ice Staff's heavy attack to be the same as the animation for the Inner Fire ranged taunt, but I suppose that would break ice staff for stuff like PVP.

Urza1234

IMO most of the OP's suggestions are... OP

My biggest complaint about the frost staff is that its Taunt takes 2 seconds to get off, and any little CC you take during that 2 seconds interrupts the taunt.

IMO the biggest QoL change the frost staff could receive would be to shorten the cast time of its heavy attack, or make LA's taunt as well.

Every add with Uppercut, a nightmare. The stupid minotaurs in falkreath that bump you without even telegraphing, a nightmare.

The more adds you taunt with the frost staff the more CCs come at you and the harder it is to keep your taunts up, because you simply cant taunt and block at the same time, and 2s is a long time to be completely open.

Zimbugga

I have two tank, who has Frost Staff. I didn't see anything bad about it. I just hate how heavy attacks don't always hit enemies, but it's Destruction Staves problem. Well, those tanks have One Hand and Shield too.

Gargath

IMO heavy attacks with Frost Staff is kind of AOE already. In these 15 seconds when boss is taunted we can do additional ranged heavy attacks on other enemies nearby getting their attention and gathering all around us and boss. Then we taunt boss again and can repeat this multiple Times at no cost! It's a bit of AOE and I like it as no need to run around like mad Puncturing mobs while on stamina DK, loosing the resource that is needed for blocking.

Jade1986

zyk wrote: »

meh. I don't think there should be tanking parity between One Hand and Shield and the Frost staff. The skill line is called Destruction Staff because it's fundamentally offensive and should remain so.

I don't think it's intended to be as good an option for serious tanking as 1HS, but rather to provide a Magicka alternative for Blocking.

Besides, what do you mean by tanking? Outside of Trials, a Magicka DPS build can tank pretty much everything.

AE taunts are a bad idea and completely unnecessary.

With the introduction of warden, it is clear it is meant for tanking . I have an orc warden ice tank, and i tank better than most snore and board tanks I see. So please, stop this " its not viable " , it def could use improvement, but we do NOT need another dps line.

Jade1986

RavenSworn wrote: »

Some frost staff tanking suggestions:

- Make frost abilities have a buff to attack speed. Basically faster animations for the heavy / medium attack and as a buff in the tri focus passive.
- reduce the taunt decay for frost staff to 5s, in line with the faster animation attacks OR
- take away the taunt mechanic from heavy attacks and slot it with elemental susceptibility or elemental Drain. This will keep the taunts away from the regular attacks, add major breach to the ice taunt (which will bring it up to the Sword and shield taunt level, not as good but better than current iteration.) and ensures the dps capabilities of frost staff is not affected.
- change the 'iceball' animation to an ice spike.

I love frost staff tanking don't get me wrong. The health shield that you receive from the heavy attack scales really well with health based tanks, and coupled with an ice warden, it's really quite viable in vet dungeons or trials but for new players, it's a bit of a doozy. Too many newbies mistook the frost heavy attack as a good way to increase dps.

With this change, all 3 elemental school can dps, while having a secondary effect (fire single target, lightning multiple target, frost attack speed). This will also add variety to the choice of gear for ice staff users. Imagine a fast heavy attack speed build with the elegance set.

The sword and shield should almost always be a primary tool for tanking but frost staff needs to at least be on par, if not close to it. Right now, inner fire is a much much better way to range taunt.

Why on earth would I waste a slot for an ability to taunt when I can do it with heavy attack . Seriously, just use your rotation, if you can call it that, taunt, use again, taunt. You dont have to wait till the boss attacks again.

Maura_Neysa

Jade1986 wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

Some frost staff tanking suggestions:

- Make frost abilities have a buff to attack speed. Basically faster animations for the heavy / medium attack and as a buff in the tri focus passive.
- reduce the taunt decay for frost staff to 5s, in line with the faster animation attacks OR
- take away the taunt mechanic from heavy attacks and slot it with elemental susceptibility or elemental Drain. This will keep the taunts away from the regular attacks, add major breach to the ice taunt (which will bring it up to the Sword and shield taunt level, not as good but better than current iteration.) and ensures the dps capabilities of frost staff is not affected.
- change the 'iceball' animation to an ice spike.

I love frost staff tanking don't get me wrong. The health shield that you receive from the heavy attack scales really well with health based tanks, and coupled with an ice warden, it's really quite viable in vet dungeons or trials but for new players, it's a bit of a doozy. Too many newbies mistook the frost heavy attack as a good way to increase dps.

With this change, all 3 elemental school can dps, while having a secondary effect (fire single target, lightning multiple target, frost attack speed). This will also add variety to the choice of gear for ice staff users. Imagine a fast heavy attack speed build with the elegance set.

The sword and shield should almost always be a primary tool for tanking but frost staff needs to at least be on par, if not close to it. Right now, inner fire is a much much better way to range taunt.

Why on earth would I waste a slot for an ability to taunt when I can do it with heavy attack . Seriously, just use your rotation, if you can call it that, taunt, use again, taunt. You dont have to wait till the boss attacks again.

Go ahead and give that a shot on Bloody Horn in Vet Faulkreach. There's only 5 things to taunt, thats only a 10 second opening for the Boss's 20k+ heavy attack (Pretty sure its actually something like 40k.) Even better? Try it on Vet Bloodroot while the 3 Amalgamations are up and stones are dropping. I know his heavy will 1 shot my 40k health unblocked.
Ice Staff tanking is totally viable (I back bar it), heavy attack taunt is totally worthless.

Jade1986

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

Some frost staff tanking suggestions:

- Make frost abilities have a buff to attack speed. Basically faster animations for the heavy / medium attack and as a buff in the tri focus passive.
- reduce the taunt decay for frost staff to 5s, in line with the faster animation attacks OR
- take away the taunt mechanic from heavy attacks and slot it with elemental susceptibility or elemental Drain. This will keep the taunts away from the regular attacks, add major breach to the ice taunt (which will bring it up to the Sword and shield taunt level, not as good but better than current iteration.) and ensures the dps capabilities of frost staff is not affected.
- change the 'iceball' animation to an ice spike.

I love frost staff tanking don't get me wrong. The health shield that you receive from the heavy attack scales really well with health based tanks, and coupled with an ice warden, it's really quite viable in vet dungeons or trials but for new players, it's a bit of a doozy. Too many newbies mistook the frost heavy attack as a good way to increase dps.

With this change, all 3 elemental school can dps, while having a secondary effect (fire single target, lightning multiple target, frost attack speed). This will also add variety to the choice of gear for ice staff users. Imagine a fast heavy attack speed build with the elegance set.

The sword and shield should almost always be a primary tool for tanking but frost staff needs to at least be on par, if not close to it. Right now, inner fire is a much much better way to range taunt.

Why on earth would I waste a slot for an ability to taunt when I can do it with heavy attack . Seriously, just use your rotation, if you can call it that, taunt, use again, taunt. You dont have to wait till the boss attacks again.

Go ahead and give that a shot on Bloody Horn in Vet Faulkreach. There's only 5 things to taunt, thats only a 10 second opening for the Boss's 20k+ heavy attack (Pretty sure its actually something like 40k.) Even better? Try it on Vet Bloodroot while the 3 Amalgamations are up and stones are dropping. I know his heavy will 1 shot my 40k health unblocked.
Ice Staff tanking is totally viable (I back bar it), heavy attack taunt is totally worthless.

The only problem with the heavy attack is the inconsistency . Sometimes it takes a second as it should, sometimes for some unbeknownst reason to me it takes 3. With that 1 second charge up you can easily taunt 5 things in 6-7 seconds. I have however said myself that the taunt should be put in a seperate passive, and then it should be -any- duration of charged up attacks should taunt with ice staff, as to avoid that ridiculous glitched forever charge up time. I will probably slot the undaunted skill, but taking options -away- is just silly. Or the best solution would be to add a passive or edit a passive to make force shock taunt for ice staff. Ice staff should be 100% catered to tanking, if you want to use it as dps , you can, but it should be just like snb where one ability is strictly for tanking, and that should be force shock on ice staff.

DocFrost72

What ice staff needs is for that staff at minimum to be a two item set piece, the taunt needs to be frost clench, and the taunt needs to provide a source of major fracture. Major breach can come from ele drain.

Without the above, ice staff tanking is in a bad way.

SugaComa

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Anything to do with an AOE taunt gets an instant no.

Why .. Templar has one

SugaComa

DocFrost72 wrote: »

What ice staff needs is for that staff at minimum to be a two item set piece, the taunt needs to be frost clench, and the taunt needs to provide a source of major fracture. Major breach can come from ele drain.

Without the above, ice staff tanking is in a bad way.

All two handers should account fur a two piece but only when a third (second) set price is added

Jade1986

DocFrost72 wrote: »

What ice staff needs is for that staff at minimum to be a two item set piece, the taunt needs to be frost clench, and the taunt needs to provide a source of major fracture. Major breach can come from ele drain.

Without the above, ice staff tanking is in a bad way.

They would have to fix clench then because bosses are immune to it, otherwise not a bad idea. Ad the taunt to that, but then that would need to be the first skill in the line, otherwise ice tanks would not be able to tank until they reach that point.

DocFrost72

Jade1986 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

What ice staff needs is for that staff at minimum to be a two item set piece, the taunt needs to be frost clench, and the taunt needs to provide a source of major fracture. Major breach can come from ele drain.

Without the above, ice staff tanking is in a bad way.

They would have to fix clench then because bosses are immune to it, otherwise not a bad idea. Ad the taunt to that, but then that would need to be the first skill in the line, otherwise ice tanks would not be able to tank until they reach that point.

You unlock that ability at staff rank four, long before character level 10.

SugaComa wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Anything to do with an AOE taunt gets an instant no.

Why .. Templar has one

I sssume you mean toppling with tormentor. That, as of my last testing, only taunts the first target.

Tannus15

Frost should be moved out of the destro staff and be given it's own skill line like resto staffs.

Frost tanking feels exactly like what it is, a half baked band-aid approach to what is otherwise a good idea.

Urza1234

Jade1986 wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

Some frost staff tanking suggestions:

- Make frost abilities have a buff to attack speed. Basically faster animations for the heavy / medium attack and as a buff in the tri focus passive.
- reduce the taunt decay for frost staff to 5s, in line with the faster animation attacks OR
- take away the taunt mechanic from heavy attacks and slot it with elemental susceptibility or elemental Drain. This will keep the taunts away from the regular attacks, add major breach to the ice taunt (which will bring it up to the Sword and shield taunt level, not as good but better than current iteration.) and ensures the dps capabilities of frost staff is not affected.
- change the 'iceball' animation to an ice spike.

I love frost staff tanking don't get me wrong. The health shield that you receive from the heavy attack scales really well with health based tanks, and coupled with an ice warden, it's really quite viable in vet dungeons or trials but for new players, it's a bit of a doozy. Too many newbies mistook the frost heavy attack as a good way to increase dps.

With this change, all 3 elemental school can dps, while having a secondary effect (fire single target, lightning multiple target, frost attack speed). This will also add variety to the choice of gear for ice staff users. Imagine a fast heavy attack speed build with the elegance set.

The sword and shield should almost always be a primary tool for tanking but frost staff needs to at least be on par, if not close to it. Right now, inner fire is a much much better way to range taunt.

Why on earth would I waste a slot for an ability to taunt when I can do it with heavy attack . Seriously, just use your rotation, if you can call it that, taunt, use again, taunt. You dont have to wait till the boss attacks again.

This simply does not work for trash like in Falkreath, or any dungeon where the trash casts uppercut or fear. The more you grab agro the more CC heads your way, the more CC heads your way the less you can afford a full 2s animation for that heavy attack. On bosses that have adds who cast CC you either simply cannot grab agro on all the adds with frost staff alone. You either have to let the adds attack your group or use a taunting ability.