Damage as healer

badmojo

What is the ettiqette when it comes to causing damage as healer in group dungeons?

In veteran dungeons I usually lean towards only healing and possibly dropping damage ultimates during boss fights, and during the trash I do more damage and keep the buffs up, only really healing when needed.

In normal dungeons I act like a DPS 95% of the time.

Am I doing it right? I ask because sometimes I feel like switching to DPS might slow down the group if the actual DPS feels like he needs to self heal or shield because I am not keeping him at 100%. I hate when Im healing and see people pop vigor or mutigen, makes me feel like they dont have faith in my healing.

Obviously in organized groups this is less of an issue, but I run a lot of PUGs.

kargen27

badmojo wrote: »

What is the ettiqette when it comes to causing damage as healer in group dungeons?

In veteran dungeons I usually lean towards only healing and possibly dropping damage ultimates during boss fights, and during the trash I do more damage and keep the buffs up, only really healing when needed.

In normal dungeons I act like a DPS 95% of the time.

Am I doing it right? I ask because sometimes I feel like switching to DPS might slow down the group if the actual DPS feels like he needs to self heal or shield because I am not keeping him at 100%. I hate when Im healing and see people pop vigor or mutigen, makes me feel like they dont have faith in my healing.

Obviously in organized groups this is less of an issue, but I run a lot of PUGs.

I would say if you have the buffs up and still have plenty of resources jump in on the DPS. If the others feel the need to pop vigor or mutigen while their health is still above 50% that is on them and not you.

Also some players have a shield or self heal worked into their rotation where they might hit it every other rotation or something like that. It is better for them because of muscle memory to keep doing the same rotation even if they don't actually need the self heal or shield.

With PUGs if we have new players wanting to learn mechanics I will back off the DPS my healer can do so they get a better feel for what is going on.

Gilvoth

in PvP ALL healers and Tanks should have NO ability to kill other players, that is an MMO tradition.
the tank and healer are not meant to dish out high damage in those positions.
but in PvE both of those classes should be able to do Fair damage and help the team when needed. that is normal tradion in MMO's.

badmojo

Good point about the rotation, thanks for the reply.

Runefang

For me it's a sliding scale, the harder the content the more focus I have on healing. The only thing I don't vary is buffs/debuffs/resources - they are up at all times.

So on a normal FG1 run I will use Mutagen only as required. On Vet DLC dungeons it's basically just healing + lightning blockade. Trials are a whole other beast again.

I will also respond to the group if required, newer/weaker players need more healing. But I prefer to tell try and teach the obvious things like avoiding aggro, avoiding the red, have food/drink etc.

Runefang

And the honest truth is if the group's dps is awful, I'm better off being the dps and letting them die.

Synroth

Sounds like you have the right idea.

I wouldn't get discouraged by a player using Vigor. Most Stamina DPS will run this in their toolkit as group support or to watch their own [snip] because they are typically in the mobs/boss taking more damage than a ranged character. I personally run the other morph of Vigor on my tank to allow the healer some slack time to DPS, or worry about healing the DPS.

Mutigen is a little odd, considering the DPS is running a restoration staff. In a situation like that you're going to need to DPS to fill in where that player is lacking.

I typically run in organized groups and we don't even use a healer. PuGs, can definitely be a different story.

[Edited to remove profanity]

phileunderx2

If you heal and pug you better be prepared to do some or a lot of dps. A little tanking ability doesn't hurt either.

PlagueSD

As long as no one gets close to dying, I have no problem. If everyone's constantly above 50% health and you have plenty of magica. DPS...It'll make the fight go faster.

Flameheart

Lightning Wall is your friend. Never underestimate the direct and indirect (off balance) dps from it and actually it's now the standard support a good healer delivers anyways. In addition you need a lightning staff for that on your backbar - and if you have the time - you deliver the best Aoe dps ever by doing a heavy attack with that tool and you even get magicka back.

NewBlacksmurf

Never assume and never go in with a pre-determined way to play.

If you're doing pick up groups you need to go in balanced and ask or be willing to adjust immediately.
Just today on my level 24 Warden I had one bar for healing and one for DPS. but I queued as the healer.

They did it so fast I just started to off heal and DPS primarily and focused healed one other DPS only......mind you we also had no tank so I spent a lot of time blocking

KingYogi415

Most good players really need minimal healing. Only in DLC dungeons do you need to really focus springs.

Your job is to buff!

Combat prayer, eledrain, wall of lighting and shards need to be up 100% of the time. If your groups sucks (or you are running a vet trail) you spend the rest of your time weaving springs to keep everyone alive.

If with a decent group, you weave forcepusle/sweep while keeping the buffs up. Make sure to have cp spread evenly to do good damage, you will easily do 10k+ Dps.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

I Run an Argonian Nightblade Healer (Saliltul) for Dungeons and I do DPS while I am healing with Funnel Health, but of course the main heals are from the Restoration staff abilities and using Energy Orb (the Morph of Necrotic Orb in the Undaunted skill line) to give Stamina or Magicka back to my team.

I run with PUGS all the time and people love him..his Mundus stone is The Ritual

badmojo

Flameheart wrote: »

Lightning Wall is your friend. Never underestimate the direct and indirect (off balance) dps from it and actually it's now the standard support a good healer delivers anyways. In addition you need a lightning staff for that on your backbar - and if you have the time - you deliver the best Aoe dps ever by doing a heavy attack with that tool and you even get magicka back.

Thats pretty much what I do, unstable lightning wall followed by some light attacks weaved into shock clenches, heavy attack if they arent going off balance enough. I do have cliff racer on the backbar, but I barely use it. Any suggestions for another DPS skill for a warden?

Kode

That is an individual question. As a healer if you are comfortable with your build and the content, then hammer out some DPS.

On my Nightblade healer I used to do damage but honestly when the stuff hit the fan I had to focus on just maintaining heals. With my Templar healer, Breath of Life is a real life saver, meaning I can really put out some damage and if things take a quick turn I can fix it easily.
I run HoTs, buffs, and plenty of damage. What I don't really do is sacrifice my ability to handle heals for that given situation by focusing on damage... that is the slot I am filling so it is job one.

That said, there are times when you must deviate... and by that I mean when you are spending more time trying keep someone alive than they are worth... I try to warn them, then I just let nature take its course. If they want to think I failed... fine, but spamming breath of life for the guy who cant seem to stay above 50% for longer than 2 seconds... isn't why I am here.
I normally do 25-30% of the damage in a vet dungeon, and I don't think I am pushing myself too hard.

Inarre

In 4 mans I start out with a full support build and usually do about 25-30% of the dps just using lightning wall/spear shards/purifying light, but I gauge it from there.

If that percent drops lower i know my team is really killing it so I stick with buffing them because I will contribute the most to the team that way. If i am climbing closer to 35‰ or higher of the team damage I'll start to trade out my squad/team buffs for damage skills (ie drop war horn for storm, drop combat prayer for another dot etc)

My philosophy mostly is that the higher amount of dps my team is doing the more beneficial my +__% damage buffs are. The less DPS my team does the more I can contribute by doing my own dps. This is usually justified by seeing my overall dps contribution go up to 50%, 60‰, 70% dps in those groups and the dungeon goes a lot faster.

Of course I always keep an emergency heal on my bar to save the dps though. I just tend to save full support mode for raids or PUGs with dps that are really laying it on thick and are earning the resource and buff support.

@badmojo I'm pretty new still to warden heals so others probably have better suggestions, but I have been playing with using winters revenge and growing swarm on top of my wall and Its pretty nice.

PlagueSD

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Most good players really need minimal healing. Only in DLC dungeons do you need to really focus springs.

Your job is to buff!

Combat prayer, eledrain, wall of lighting and shards need to be up 100% of the time. If your groups sucks (or you are running a vet trail) you spend the rest of your time weaving springs to keep everyone alive.

If with a decent group, you weave forcepusle/sweep while keeping the buffs up. Make sure to have cp spread evenly to do good damage, you will easily do 10k+ Dps.

As a tank, I actually use frost staff on back bar. As well as keeping up Ransack and Deep slash, I also put Ele Drain and use Pulsar to lower max health. This also allows me to use heavy attack for ranged taunt if I'm low on magica.

FrancisCrawford

Templars can have a full DPS skillset that both damages and supports:

Lightning Blockade
Luminous Shards
Purifying Light
Reflective Light

plus of course Elemental Drain and an ultimate.

So that's exactly what I run. I usually have enough time and magicka to cast those 4 skills in a regular rotation (or 3 skills in trash fights, since Purifying Light is for bosses only). The timing of that rotation also plays nicely with Combat Prayer on the other bar.

But if time or magicka is limited, then healing is of course the priority.

And by the way -- my standard isn't to keep the group above 50%. It's to get them back to 100% promptly, so that Spell Power Cure can proc.

Khrogo

I’ve been pushing my luck lately in dungeons by using Earthgore and Rapud Regen as a surrogate Breath while I jab. I know. Bad healer

SugaComa

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

in PvP ALL healers and Tanks should have NO ability to kill other players, that is an MMO tradition.
the tank and healer are not meant to dish out high damage in those positions.
but in PvE both of those classes should be able to do Fair damage and help the team when needed. that is normal tradion in MMO's.

On that grounds then no DPS should have a self heal

Bryong9ub17_ESO

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

in PvP ALL healers and Tanks should have NO ability to kill other players, that is an MMO tradition.
the tank and healer are not meant to dish out high damage in those positions.
but in PvE both of those classes should be able to do Fair damage and help the team when needed. that is normal tradion in MMO's.

I don't think you know what tradition means because everything you just said was all wrong.

pauli133

As a healer, I've found that you generally get extremes.

You either have a group that significantly outclasses you on damage, or you have a group that needs your help.

You either have a group that's in constant danger of wiping, or you have a group that doesn't generally need to be healed.

How these things interact determines which bar I'm on most of the time. I've got pros? I'll just keep mutagen up for SPC, and focus on Purifying Light, Elemental Drain, and Elemental Blockade to maximize their output. I've got kiddos to protect? There's going to be a lot more Combat Prayer and Ritual of Retribution (with Shards everywhere).

As a healer, my primary job is to prevent service interruptions, and damage is the service. If I can contribute to that, then great, but I'm going to position myself such that I can focus on letting the DPS do their job without worry. My damage contribution is never going to outweigh the damage loss from a downed player.

Runefang

pauli133 wrote: »

As a healer, I've found that you generally get extremes.

You either have a group that significantly outclasses you on damage, or you have a group that needs your help.

You either have a group that's in constant danger of wiping, or you have a group that doesn't generally need to be healed.

How these things interact determines which bar I'm on most of the time. I've got pros? I'll just keep mutagen up for SPC, and focus on Purifying Light, Elemental Drain, and Elemental Blockade to maximize their output. I've got kiddos to protect? There's going to be a lot more Combat Prayer and Ritual of Retribution (with Shards everywhere).

As a healer, my primary job is to prevent service interruptions, and damage is the service. If I can contribute to that, then great, but I'm going to position myself such that I can focus on letting the DPS do their job without worry. My damage contribution is never going to outweigh the damage loss from a downed player.

You've clearly been lucky in pugs then.

Mureel

Runefang wrote: »

For me it's a sliding scale, the harder the content the more focus I have on healing. The only thing I don't vary is buffs/debuffs/resources - they are up at all times.

So on a normal FG1 run I will use Mutagen only as required. On Vet DLC dungeons it's basically just healing + lightning blockade. Trials are a whole other beast again.

I will also respond to the group if required, newer/weaker players need more healing. But I prefer to tell try and teach the obvious things like avoiding aggro, avoiding the red, have food/drink etc.

Plus in normal heal sets (spc/worm/mender), your spell damage is like 1500ish xD doesn't make for a whole lot of pain.

Psiion

Greetings,

Seeing as this thread is quite old and may contain outdated information, we have gone ahead and closed it down. If anyone would like to continue discussion on this subject, please feel free to create a new, current thread for conversation.