DPS on dummy question

coop500

So... I'm not a min max-er by any stretch of imagination, but I am curious, what is the normal time it takes for one decent but casual DPS to kill a 3M heath bone dummy?

My best rotation has given me a 7m and 56s on a khajiit stamina templar level 44. I feel this is probably laugh worthy though...

Reorx_Holybeard

It's hard to scale it down to lower levels...most people are at least CP160 if not considerably higher. A few rough points for comparison:

• 6k DPS = 7:56 -- Definitely on the low side but probably enough for most of the non-DLC normal dungeons and open world content.
• 10k DPS = 5:00 -- A *bare* minimum for starting non-DLC veteran dungeons (don't do PUGs at this level, start with friendly groups).
• 20k DPS = 2:30 -- Can start doing DLC veteran dungeons and non-DLC veteran dungeons get much easier.
• 30k DPS = 1:40 -- A much better point to handle DLC veteran dungeons and veteran trials.
• 40k DPS = 1:15 -- In the range of "elite" DPS needed for leaderboard veteran trial (the exact class starts to affect your DPS ceiling at this level).

Keep leveling up and I would say aim for at least the 20k DPS level which will let you at least attempt most content with a good chance of beating it.

coop500

Hmm okay, yeah it's my EU toon so she doesn't have CP yet.

On NA my CP is 284ish but all my actual DPS toons are a work in progress so they're not ready to test.

Thanks for the list though, a good way to narrow it down.

Narvuntien

CP makes a HUGE difference in DPS. So if you don't have a lot of cp you can't be expected to post big or even medicore numbers.

Just get into good habit of laying down lots of AoEs, keep your DoTs running and light attack between each and every skill. Making sure to keep your buffs, AoEs and Dots up as much as possible. A good trick is to look at how long they run and set up the skills into a "rotation" so that you can keep them up with a rhythim. Then practice that rhythim.

dpencil1

Yep, lots of factors pile up quickly: CP, gear level and quality, rotation (including light attack weaving), and sensible skill/gear/rotation choices. A max CP char in all gold best in slot gear with a smart and well executes rotation should be able to pull 35k+ dps. Someone in your position, probably more like 10-15k. Get to CP 160 first, then get purple/gold max level gear that synergize well with your build. If you've developed a solid rotation by that point all that will be left is collecting the remaining CP.

tommalmm

Narvuntien wrote: »

CP makes a HUGE difference in DPS. So if you don't have a lot of cp you can't be expected to post big or even medicore numbers.

Just get into good habit of laying down lots of AoEs, keep your DoTs running and light attack between each and every skill. Making sure to keep your buffs, AoEs and Dots up as much as possible. A good trick is to look at how long they run and set up the skills into a "rotation" so that you can keep them up with a rhythim. Then practice that rhythim.

Not entirely true. While CP has a HUGE impact on your DPS, it's a lie you can't reach avarage numbers on non CP or low CPchar. I was able to hit 23-25k with properly geared and developed lv 46 no CP char (all purple, crafted gear plus IC jewlery of various levels) and 32-33k with CP200. And note that I'm not a very good player. The best players should be able to squeeze a few additional Ks.

The thing is, that no one really gears their <CP160 characters properly. To retain good stats you'd have to craft new gear every two levels or 20CP. You can level more during one random dungeon . So I'm quite confident that the only people that do it, do it for fun (...or to show who has the longer... staff), like I did. Pretty much always I level new characters, I use all the random non set gear that drops. Most of the time I do not bother spending my CP until the character is lv50 (with outleveled gear it barely does any difference in damage, it helps survivability, though)..

Qbiken

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

It's hard to scale it down to lower levels...most people are at least CP160 if not considerably higher. A few rough points for comparison:

• 6k DPS = 7:56 -- Definitely on the low side but probably enough for most of the non-DLC normal dungeons and open world content.
• 10k DPS = 5:00 -- A *bare* minimum for starting non-DLC veteran dungeons (don't do PUGs at this level, start with friendly groups).
• 20k DPS = 2:30 -- Can start doing DLC veteran dungeons and non-DLC veteran dungeons get much easier.
• 30k DPS = 1:40 -- A much better point to handle DLC veteran dungeons and veteran trials.
• 40k DPS = 1:15 -- In the range of "elite" DPS needed for leaderboard veteran trial (the exact class starts to affect your DPS ceiling at this level).

Keep leveling up and I would say aim for at least the 20k DPS level which will let you at least attempt most content with a good chance of beating it.

Those 40k+ dps parses you see are cheese setups in my opinion. A stamDK doing 40k+ on a dummy will 99,9% of the time run: NMG+2Fanged+Kragh+Lover´, which would never be used in a trial unless you´re the only stamina DD in the group (which is very unlikely these days). I advice people to use the same gear with the same skillsetup on a dummy as they would use in a trial.

Ilithyania

"32-33k with CP200. And note that I'm not a very good player"

You sound like a good player to me

Was that a skeleton session, from full to zero health ? self buffed etc ? Which class?

tommalmm

Ilithyania wrote: »

"32-33k with CP200. And note that I'm not a very good player"

You sound like a good player to me

Was that a skeleton session, from full to zero health ? self buffed etc ? Which class?

High Elf magsorc, full 3M, selfbuffed. I've even posted one parse here on the forums a month or two ago.

Here it is: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4533648/#Comment_4533648

With some luck on crit and off balance, I was able to get 33k on that heavy attack build. Would be more on a light attack build, but it was all about ease of use and no sustain issues. Some cheese there (two pets + lover), but you can only do so much with this low CP (you gain much more from lover and spending CPs elsewhere, than choosing apprentice and having to spend half of it in spell erosion).

PS. I didn't say I'm bad, I just said I'm not very good.

tommalmm

Qbiken wrote: »

Those 40k+ dps parses you see are cheese setups in my opinion. A stamDK doing 40k+ on a dummy will 99,9% of the time run: NMG+2Fanged+Kragh+Lover´, which would never be used in a trial unless you´re the only stamina DD in the group (which is very unlikely these days). I advice people to use the same gear with the same skillsetup on a dummy as they would use in a trial.

Remember that in a group this "cheese" setup would actually give less DPS. So a trial gear on a dummy parse is just as bad estimate of a trial DPS as anything else.

The main function of training dummies is bragging, well, and training... sometimes.

Loc2262

If I recall correctly, when doing a dummy test for fun during leveling up a stam warden, I sat at about 12-15k DPS. That's in blue training gear and with Vampire's Kiss set / Stam Regen glyphs on the dropped jewelry.

So with a proper rotation, and at level 15+ so you have two skill bars, one should be able to reach 10+k DPS due to character scaling. Not that it really matters, since you don't really want to optimize your low-level char for dummy tests at that point. Survival and doing AoE for solo content / leveling through grinding is more important.

Otherwise I agree with the other posters here, specifically Holybeard's list.

SugaComa

It's hard to say, I'm distinctly average and when is use a full front back bar rotation with the alcast set up I get 16k no where near the 35k he reports I should get ... But that's due to my hands not be able to move quick enough through the rotation to get full advantage of animation cancelling

Then I have my 3 button jam which does 25k ...it's had to maintain resources and requires use of pots but my hands can handle it

Yes I'll never hit the elite 30 to 40k mark but I have zero trouble holding it together in most vet content bar 12 man vet trials ... Cos 12 man vet trials is mainly done by elitist who wouldn't entertain a a sub 35k DAD
But if you're lucky to find a group willing to do it with you and youre able to hit 20 to 25 you will get through most content if you work well as team you will succeed

Fast DPS mean less chance of a mistake

Slower DPS means a greater use of skill and play to maintain the slow DPS with out making a mistake causing a wipe

Milvan

Qbiken wrote: »

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

It's hard to scale it down to lower levels...most people are at least CP160 if not considerably higher. A few rough points for comparison:

• 6k DPS = 7:56 -- Definitely on the low side but probably enough for most of the non-DLC normal dungeons and open world content.
• 10k DPS = 5:00 -- A *bare* minimum for starting non-DLC veteran dungeons (don't do PUGs at this level, start with friendly groups).
• 20k DPS = 2:30 -- Can start doing DLC veteran dungeons and non-DLC veteran dungeons get much easier.
• 30k DPS = 1:40 -- A much better point to handle DLC veteran dungeons and veteran trials.
• 40k DPS = 1:15 -- In the range of "elite" DPS needed for leaderboard veteran trial (the exact class starts to affect your DPS ceiling at this level).

Keep leveling up and I would say aim for at least the 20k DPS level which will let you at least attempt most content with a good chance of beating it.

Those 40k+ dps parses you see are cheese setups in my opinion. A stamDK doing 40k+ on a dummy will 99,9% of the time run: NMG+2Fanged+Kragh+Lover´, which would never be used in a trial unless you´re the only stamina DD in the group (which is very unlikely these days). I advice people to use the same gear with the same skillsetup on a dummy as they would use in a trial.

This is mostly true when they hit more than 45k+ dps parses. Tho a experienced stamina dd can hit 40k+ with hunding rage, vo and the warrior with a proper rotation.

SpAEkus

Can any of this process be used to measure Healer effectiveness/rotation? Does the dummy produce any results from healing skills/dots?

JoffyToffy69

Just wondering. When talking about 45k dps, does that mean you're dealing 45,000 damage every second? Or is that just a burst? How is it sustained?

I've also noticed certain procs and other "techniques" don't work on the dummies either..

Also how is survivability and sustain on those 45k dps builds?

tommalmm

JoffyToffy69 wrote: »

Just wondering. When talking about 45k dps, does that mean you're dealing 45,000 damage every second? Or is that just a burst? How is it sustained?

I've also noticed certain procs and other "techniques" don't work on the dummies either..

Also how is survivability and sustain on those 45k dps builds?

In fact it's an average over entire fight. It's just Target dummy HP divided by time in seconds. So at some points it can be higher or lower (ex. classes/builds with executes will have higher DPS in execute range), but on average it's like that. Sustain and survivability depends on a class and build but is generally not a problem (build that can't sustain is broken, save for specific builds that are sustainable with group support).

Milvan

JoffyToffy69 wrote: »

Just wondering. When talking about 45k dps, does that mean you're dealing 45,000 damage every second? Or is that just a burst? How is it sustained?

I've also noticed certain procs and other "techniques" don't work on the dummies either..

Also how is survivability and sustain on those 45k dps builds?

45,000 average with ups and down during the whole fight execute phase for example

Only a high skilled stamina nowdays have the sustain and capacity to reach 45k dps with a trial build. To surpass that you need to use a penetration set that may no be so optimal for trial because of overpenatration etc.

A good magicka dd can sustain 35~43k dps with a trial build as well. If he surpass that probably the build isn't optimal for a trial.

Concernign survivability, magickas have access to safer ground because of the mobility and better shields and other resources like the sorc negate.

ON VETERAN TRIALS

Actually, with a solid group, the dps is much higher than dummy's because of debuffs and buffs you receive. You can easily find a stam dk hitting 60k dps single target on a trial run with a optimized group.

Izaki

Qbiken wrote: »

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

It's hard to scale it down to lower levels...most people are at least CP160 if not considerably higher. A few rough points for comparison:

• 6k DPS = 7:56 -- Definitely on the low side but probably enough for most of the non-DLC normal dungeons and open world content.
• 10k DPS = 5:00 -- A *bare* minimum for starting non-DLC veteran dungeons (don't do PUGs at this level, start with friendly groups).
• 20k DPS = 2:30 -- Can start doing DLC veteran dungeons and non-DLC veteran dungeons get much easier.
• 30k DPS = 1:40 -- A much better point to handle DLC veteran dungeons and veteran trials.
• 40k DPS = 1:15 -- In the range of "elite" DPS needed for leaderboard veteran trial (the exact class starts to affect your DPS ceiling at this level).

Keep leveling up and I would say aim for at least the 20k DPS level which will let you at least attempt most content with a good chance of beating it.

Those 40k+ dps parses you see are cheese setups in my opinion. A stamDK doing 40k+ on a dummy will 99,9% of the time run: NMG+2Fanged+Kragh+Lover´, which would never be used in a trial unless you´re the only stamina DD in the group (which is very unlikely these days). I advice people to use the same gear with the same skillsetup on a dummy as they would use in a trial.

Two-Fanged is merely a simulation of NMG + Sunderflame which is something that every raid group has. And Warrior does the same DPS as the Lover anyway.

I hit 51k on the Stamblade. That was without War Machine (which inflates your DPS by a lot), without the Lover mundus and without Sharpened weapons. The only thing that was different from my trial setup was my CP and the fact that instead of the Hunding's I usually use in raids, I was using TFS.

I mean you could test with the same gear that you use in raids, but everyone uses different things in raids and serves a different purpose in raids, so how would you compare results? And in the end, dummies aren't even representative of proper raid environments.

FakeFox

JoffyToffy69 wrote: »

Just wondering. When talking about 45k dps, does that mean you're dealing 45,000 damage every second? Or is that just a burst? How is it sustained?

I've also noticed certain procs and other "techniques" don't work on the dummies either..

Also how is survivability and sustain on those 45k dps builds?

45k DPS usually means 45k damage every second in average for the length of the fight/parse. On Stamina this should be sustained without support by using pots on cooldown and having enough heavy attacks in your rotation, on magicka it's pretty much the same just that minor magicka drain is expected to be applied by healers (or yourself if we talk about solo). You usually don't play any regen or cost reduction on your gear, food, etc. os this is with a regen of 700-1000 on most builds.
Survival isn't a issue as those builds are optimized for groups, so you shouldn't take too much damage and also get healed, but in case something goes wrong or you solo you usually have a shield or heal.

krachall

For reference, I’m currently pulling 23k dps on my CP450 stamblade. While that is terrible by most people’s stamdards, I was at 18k a few weeks ago with the same gear.

Here’s the important part though:

All I’ve done I’m those few weeks is practice my rotation. So no change in character other than a few more CPs but a lot of change in the player.

Practice that rotation and you’ll see your dps creep up. My rotation is fairly complicate and difficult so one or two mistakes in the 3mm hp fight and my dps drops to 20k but that also indicates there’s more room to improve.

I think I can get to 28k with this build and gear but it’s going to take a lot of time in front of the training dummy. I’m ok with that , though, as there is often a lot of downtime in the game. My trials guild starts forming for our weekly raid at 9:30 but we rarely enter the dungeon before 10. I spend that time in front of the dummy.