Unarmed Weapon Skill Line

MudkipKatana

Just a friendly reminder that we still don't have an Unarmed Skill Line in the game. =D

Get on it already, ZOS xD... It's such a shame that those Unarmed animations go virtually unused because there isn't Skill set for them. The only time we see them is in one of like three situations:

1.) New players; When they can't find a weapon.

2.) Crazys who want to challenge the entire game and playerbase to fisticuffs

3.) Overload Sorcerer Ability

I, personally, don't think it's too far in the extreme to ask for a Hand-to-Hand skill line. It's existed in TES in the past (Morrowind, Oblivion). Unarmed is kinda a general statement. What I actually mean is Hand-to-Hand because it should include fist weapons like claws and katars and whatnot. It wouldn't be too hard to design the abilities either. HtH could be mostly single target with like a single AoE ability.

- Ability 1: A flurry of punches similar to Rapid Strikes but could apply a snare instead of ramping up damage

- Ability 2: A single accurate/ powerful punch that could like apply minor fracture or knock back or something.

- Ability 3: A gap closer

- Ability 4: A roundhouse kick/ AoE

- Ability 5: Some sort of vital strike that applies a DoT; Maybe doing more damage to higher health targets; A reverse Poison Injection...

- Ultimate: Some sort barrage against the enemies vitals that could apply Major Fracture or even flat out bypass their resistances like the 2Hander ult.

I'm not the only one who wants a HtH skill line. HtH isn't even the only weapons skill I want. When I started playing, I had wanted to create a 1Hander user. Not DW, not SnB... Just me and a sword against the world. What about Spears and other Polearms? What about Thrown Weapons? I'm not complaining, just a little disappointed.

GrigorijMalahevich

No.

Stop it.

PlagueSD

Each class has 3 "unarmed" skill lines. They're called CLASS skills.

Verbal_Earthworm

i wouldnt mind seeing a hand to hand skill line, but i would like to see a one-handed (no weapon or shield in offhand) skill line first.

mikecrci

There should be combos and V triggers in this game too.

Elder Scrolls: Third Strike.

CardboardedBox

And Khajiits get a bonus to unarmed damage of course.

Cadbury

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhUkGIsKvn0

Urza1234

Valera Progib wrote: »

No.

Stop it.

Yes.

Start it.

This game needs more skill lines.

TheShadowScout

MudkipKatana wrote: »

Just a friendly reminder that we still don't have an Unarmed Skill Line in the game...
-snip-
What about Spears and other Polearms? What about Thrown Weapons?

Well... I once thought about something along those lines...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371862/additional-weapon-skill-ideas-mk-ii
...you can go to that thread, take a look, and imagine how cool it would be to have something like the skilsl I dream about in ESO!

Verbal_Earthworm wrote: »

i wouldnt mind seeing a hand to hand skill line, but i would like to see a one-handed (no weapon or shield in offhand) skill line first.

Actually... you can do that already, just don't take anything in your offhand!

But as a true skill line... not so good, since you are in the wrong era for that.

Think about it, one-handed fighting in medieval-ish times generally means the fighter was insufficiently prepared. A noble out on a ride, suddenly forced to defend himself with only his sword (since when riding to battle, the very same noble would be clad in armor and have a shield with his family crest as well). A down on his luck brawler, grabbing whatever is available. An archer who suddenly finds themselves face to face with an enemy and has to grab their backup shortsword...

because -anyone- who was prepared for a fight would do -something- with their offhand. Carry a shield for additional defense. grip a two-hander for more striking power. Carry a second weapon for a berserking flurry of attacks. Use a throwing knife for a bit of ranged spoiling attacks. That sort of thing.

Even in later times, when armor becomes less of a thing and swords change to fencing rapiers, fighters like to use something in their offhand, a one-shot flintlock, a main-gauche parrying dagger, or just a cloak wrapped around their arm as a makeshift shield. Same for sailors and cavalry... they may use one-handed weapons, but they always do something with their offhand. Grab a pistol, grab the ships rope, grab a belaying pin, grab the horse rains, grab a grappling hook, whatever

The only "style" for one-handed fighting comes with honor duels... and for one the "duels" in medieval times generally included knightly combat (meaning full armor and armaments), while for another even the duellists in later times would grab -something- useful in their offhand when fighting in war instead of a duel...

So, any "duellist" style as distinct -style- would not really fit all that well into the background I suppose. Could still be done of course, just take some S&B skills and add some other options (like I did for my 1H&Ranged idea bove, which would incidentally make a decent option for the type of character you describe - just take the smallest possible shuriken as offhand, and never use any of the throwing skills?)

...

Personally I of course had wished they would have done the weapon skill line system differently. Like... have one complete line for every weapon option, and then let peiple mix and match. So there would not be an "1H&Shield" line, but an "one-handed" line and an "offhand shield" line. And an "offhand weapon" line. And an "brawling" line. And an "throwing weapon" line. And people could mix and match the skills depending on weapons equipped... and could have the option to just go with one mainhand weapon.
But - that's not how they made ESO, so we have to deal with the game we have, not the one we wieshed we had gotten.

Barbaran

MudkipKatana wrote: »

Just a friendly reminder that we still don't have an Unarmed Skill Line in the game. =D


- Ability 1: A flurry of punches similar to Rapid Strikes but could apply a snare instead of ramping up damage

- Ability 2: A single accurate/ powerful punch that could like apply minor fracture or knock back or something.

- Ability 3: A gap closer

- Ability 4: A roundhouse kick/ AoE

- Ability 5: Some sort of vital strike that applies a DoT; Maybe doing more damage to higher health targets; A reverse Poison Injection...

- Ultimate: Some sort barrage against the enemies vitals that could apply Major Fracture or even flat out bypass their resistances like the 2Hander ult.

ability 1- deals 25 physical damage which deminishes by 5% after each strike as you fatigue

ability 2- deals 45 physical damage, followed by a 45 sec. cooldown to shake off your fist after punching plated armour.

ability 3- charge an enemy up to 10M before becoming immobilized and have to catch your breath.

ability 4- deal 65 physical damage and take 250 damage suffering a broken foot

ability 5- gouge a targets eyeballs dealing 40 physical damage and applying 100 eyeball bleed damage every second for 15 seconds.

ult- Run away screaming in a panic causing mass confusion (new status effect) to all nearby targets within 30M

Jade1986

Unarmed is very very important in TES lore, it was downright shameful when they got rid of it in Skyrim. Same goes for athletics, and things of that nature.

MudkipKatana

TheShadowScout wrote: »

MudkipKatana wrote: »

Just a friendly reminder that we still don't have an Unarmed Skill Line in the game...
-snip-
What about Spears and other Polearms? What about Thrown Weapons?

Well... I once thought about something along those lines...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371862/additional-weapon-skill-ideas-mk-ii
...you can go to that thread, take a look, and imagine how cool it would be to have something like the skilsl I dream about in ESO!

Verbal_Earthworm wrote: »

i wouldnt mind seeing a hand to hand skill line, but i would like to see a one-handed (no weapon or shield in offhand) skill line first.

Actually... you can do that already, just don't take anything in your offhand!

But as a true skill line... not so good, since you are in the wrong era for that.

Think about it, one-handed fighting in medieval-ish times generally means the fighter was insufficiently prepared. A noble out on a ride, suddenly forced to defend himself with only his sword (since when riding to battle, the very same noble would be clad in armor and have a shield with his family crest as well). A down on his luck brawler, grabbing whatever is available. An archer who suddenly finds themselves face to face with an enemy and has to grab their backup shortsword...

because -anyone- who was prepared for a fight would do -something- with their offhand. Carry a shield for additional defense. grip a two-hander for more striking power. Carry a second weapon for a berserking flurry of attacks. Use a throwing knife for a bit of ranged spoiling attacks. That sort of thing.

Even in later times, when armor becomes less of a thing and swords change to fencing rapiers, fighters like to use something in their offhand, a one-shot flintlock, a main-gauche parrying dagger, or just a cloak wrapped around their arm as a makeshift shield. Same for sailors and cavalry... they may use one-handed weapons, but they always do something with their offhand. Grab a pistol, grab the ships rope, grab a belaying pin, grab the horse rains, grab a grappling hook, whatever

The only "style" for one-handed fighting comes with honor duels... and for one the "duels" in medieval times generally included knightly combat (meaning full armor and armaments), while for another even the duellists in later times would grab -something- useful in their offhand when fighting in war instead of a duel...

So, any "duellist" style as distinct -style- would not really fit all that well into the background I suppose. Could still be done of course, just take some S&B skills and add some other options (like I did for my 1H&Ranged idea bove, which would incidentally make a decent option for the type of character you describe - just take the smallest possible shuriken as offhand, and never use any of the throwing skills?)

...

Personally I of course had wished they would have done the weapon skill line system differently. Like... have one complete line for every weapon option, and then let peiple mix and match. So there would not be an "1H&Shield" line, but an "one-handed" line and an "offhand shield" line. And an "offhand weapon" line. And an "brawling" line. And an "throwing weapon" line. And people could mix and match the skills depending on weapons equipped... and could have the option to just go with one mainhand weapon.
But - that's not how they made ESO, so we have to deal with the game we have, not the one we wieshed we had gotten.

You're talking about realism within Elder Scrolls... You realize that right? I know TES prides itself on being far more realistic than a good chunk of other fantasy titles but it's still a fantasy title. The Era has nothing to do with it. Martial Artists can do things that someone weighed down by a sword might not be able to, such as disarmament. The idea of a HtH fighter is speed and precision. It's a fairly popular fighting style within other fantasy titles. One Handed isn't necessarily unprepared. Their are entire martial practices dedicated to one handed weapons. Some of which include things like parries and counters. Fencing is one such example. There are any number of ways to make these fighting styles possible within the realm of ESO. I know a few people who are tired of being restricted to SnB tanks and would like Ice Staff tanking to be viable or to have Evasion tanks be a thing. My point is, I want more diversity in play style. Even more than there already is.

Smasherx74

PlagueSD wrote: »

Each class has 3 "unarmed" skill lines. They're called CLASS skills.

Those are weapon skill lines. Lol @ 3 people agreeing with this.




On topic.


Unarmed skill line would make a lot of sense, they'd just need to add some animations for it. The problem is what do you do about unarmed gear, you're literally unarmed. One solution would be to make Unarmed skill tree super buffed but then it might(of course it will) unbalance the game. However they could do "knuckles" weapons or "claws", perhaps like 1/2Hander where you have a variety of weapons types. There is some animation for the khajiit who practice their whispering fang style I think it's called.

Unarmed should definitely be a debuff/buff/CC type weapon skill line. Lots of dots, spell/physical debuffs, and stuns.

Jade1986 wrote: »

Unarmed is very very important in TES lore, it was downright shameful when they got rid of it in Skyrim. Same goes for athletics, and things of that nature.

In skyrim if you picked khajiit on Legendary the begging of the game is easier with unarmed because you do more damage. If you immediately get the unarmed enchantment from riften and level enchanting and alchemy and smithing, you can create Gear enchant it with Increase Alchemy, then craft restopotions, pop them and they'll increase enchant effects depending on tier of gear crafted (daedric is best) then craft increase enchanting potions.

You can then enchant your ring and hands with unarmed damage. In vanilla skyrim unarmed damage scales off heavy armor for your hands. In total you can get some high damage in skyrim with unarmed and it's actually useful.

dodgehopper_ESO

Khajiit Karate, Khajiit Kung Fu. Nord Boxing.

TheShadowScout

MudkipKatana wrote: »

You're talking about realism within Elder Scrolls... You realize that right?

Yes. I just happen to think a certain dose of realism is a -good- thing. Keeps the illusion intact, you know?

MudkipKatana wrote: »

I know TES prides itself on being far more realistic than a good chunk of other fantasy titles but it's still a fantasy title. The Era has nothing to do with it.

The era sets the stage. And the stage designation is "medieval-ish". Not "victorian-ish", not "stone-age-ish", not "cyberpunkish", not "world war industrial-ish", not "renessance-ish" but medieval-ish. Thus... the tappings ought to be medieval-ish as well, and so we have broadswords instead of rapiers, bows instead of flintlocks, and plate armor instead of flack jackets.

And since we know all too well from the TES games set in the same world centuries later that this will not change between ESO and them... well...

MudkipKatana wrote: »

Martial Artists can do things that someone weighed down by a sword might not be able to, such as disarmament.

Swords are not really weighting people down you know... and a dagger stab can be as quick as any punch if you think about it, right? The one thing an empty-handed fighter can do that a swordsman may have trouble with is -grab-. And yes, there are more then enough wrestling, judo, and similar styles that rely on such moves...
...but that was actually the very reason behind the wierd way I made up the "brawling" weapon line in my outline. Doing far less damage then a sword, even with brass knuckles or such... but having CC options instead. No disarmament though, since that wouldn't work within the game system...

MudkipKatana wrote: »

One Handed isn't necessarily unprepared. Their are entire martial practices dedicated to one handed weapons. Some of which include things like parries and counters. Fencing is one such example.

...what did I say? Even the best fencer will like to grab a main-gauche outside of honor duels. Because it just makes sense to use every advantage... and your offhand can be one if you use it (unless you really need it for something else, like grabbing that rigging on a pirate ship - but even then you will want to keep a dagger on your belt to draw when the fighting gets serious).
And you really think parries and ripostes were only invented for fencing? Oh, sure, they became way more imporant then... why? Because by that time, people had generally foregone armor, thanks to the advance of firearms which rendered it somewhat ineffective... and thus lighter, quicker blades that made ripostes much more viable became commonplace! (Well, and metallurgy had advcanced to make durable light thin blades that didn't snap on your first party as well) And without armor, all you really had to keep the enemies blade from spilling your red stuff was dodging and parries...
Form follows function and function follows form. Circumstances dictate weaponry. And against an armored opponent... well...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KXQVaVvXBw
...that is pretty much how it'll go if you bring a fencers blade to a medieval fight. So get armor. And a big fu... uhm... sword. (or at least a dagger sturdy enough to punch through mail - tho ESO "daggers" are more like small short swords anyhow, if you ask me...)

MudkipKatana wrote: »

My point is, I want more diversity in play style. Even more than there already is.

And that one I would completely agree with.
Just... with a dose of fluff-consistence?

umagon

I would like an unarmed combat line. If it was implemented well I would be willing to pay for it. I would like to see modified gauntlets similar to the fist weapons some of the ogres/trolls use; but modeled tastefully in size. Something that fits the elder scrolls world, not anything like in other games where they are modeled too large and just look comical.

PlagueSD

Smasherx74 wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Each class has 3 "unarmed" skill lines. They're called CLASS skills.

Those are weapon skill lines. Lol @ 3 people agreeing with this.

Please show me where the class skill fall under weapon skills...Class skills do not require a weapon to be used. (and therefore are technically considered "unarmed" skills) (https://elderscrollsonline.info/skills)


Class Skills - special abilities restricted by your class. Each class has 3 skill trees with 10 abilities. You can't master abilities of other class in the game.

• Sorcerer
• Templar
• Nightblade
• Dragonknight

Armor Skills - responsible for armor efficiency and for your defense.

• Light
• Medium
• Heavy

Weapons Skills - responsible for weapon strength. There are 6 weapon skill lines in Elder Scrolls Online

• Two Handed
• One Handed and Shield
• Dual Wield
• Bow
• Restoration Staff Skills
• Destruction Staff

zaria

PlagueSD wrote: »

Each class has 3 "unarmed" skill lines. They're called CLASS skills.

You also has the undaunted, mage guild and pvp skills.
In fact dual wield swords was meta for many magic builds until sustain and an need for HA killed them off pretty well.

PlagueSD

zaria wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Each class has 3 "unarmed" skill lines. They're called CLASS skills.

You also has the undaunted, mage guild and pvp skills.
In fact dual wield swords was meta for many magic builds until sustain and an need for HA killed them off pretty well.

True, but good luck using anything from those trees before level 10.

MudkipKatana

And you really think parries and ripostes were only invented for fencing?

Did I say that parries were invented for Fencing? Nope. I said that some One Handed martial practices included the use of parries and that Fencing was ONE such example. It was generalized. And as far as having a One Handed Weapon Skill line. Why wouldn't be good to have one? Is Dual Wielding any more practical for your average person in a medieval setting where Magic exists? Dual wielding weapons is impractical based purely on your average person's ability to ambidextrously control both weapons and still process all the incoming information on the battle field. Trying to fight mainly with two weapons would be awkward and difficult. Dual Wield is easily the most unrealistic of the weapon skill lines. And that's said when the weapon skill lines included magical staves, a bow that can fire a continuous volley, cones of arrows and a powerful self knock back shot, as well as a Two Hander line and Sword n' Board line that allows for the user to jump... What? 22 meters? From a standing position.

The era sets the stage. And the stage designation is "medieval-ish". Not "victorian-ish", not "stone-age-ish", not "cyberpunkish", not "world war industrial-ish", not "renessance-ish" but medieval-ish. Thus... the tappings ought to be medieval-ish as well, and so we have broadswords instead of rapiers, bows instead of flintlocks, and plate armor instead of flack jackets.

In this medieval-ish setting, Hand-to-Hand already exists. Morrowind had it, Oblivion had it, Skyrim had it in LIMITED access as it wasn't an outright skill but rather a form of potential damage. And those games happened even later than ESO does chronologically.

I'd argue that Oblivion was MORE medieval-"ish" than alot of ESO (Barring most of High Rock). And in a world full of different races, cultures, and ideologies; It isn't too far fetched to have a well integrated Hand to Hand fighting style. And I did say Unarmed as a general statement. Not literally bare-fisted. Though, if that didn't translate well through my wording then that's my fault. Fist Weapons would be the main draw of a Hand-to-Hand fighting style. Claws and Katars and whatnot. Style depending on motif just like normal weapons such as the fact that Ebony Swords are Scythes.

And what about the Polearms Skill line? What reason has Bethesda had to continue to leave it out? It's been requested time and time again to be implemented in some form or fashion to little avail? Zenimax could gain some solid following just by implementing it into the game.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I'm not saying any of this out of disrespect to you. I understand the points you make. In a typical fight between Fist and Sword, the Sword will almost always win. Don't come bare handed to a knife fight and all that jazz. But, with all due respect, I will stand by my opinion that Hand to Hand would make a great addition to the game.

chozo_echo

I second this. Zos make a skill line or even class. You can call it the monk. Give a whole range of unarmed skills.

Mureel

Boots of buttkicking (munchkin) and Gloves of the Pugilist (Skyrim)!