Help with choosing an Alliance

ProfessorKittyhawk

I keep seeing Ayrenn being called weak. Which is puzzling because, physically she is quite capable. Of all the alliance leaders you don't have to repeatedly save her from death. You have to save Emeric twice and Jorunn at least once.

If by weak you mean young and naive then that's up to perspective. She abdicated her place as heir to travel around Tamriel and see the world only to return to take her place as heir to her father's name. She's worldly and from what I've heard of her backstory seen and been through a lot. She wants to unite all of Tamriel under one banner. The biggest problem is what others have mentioned- her own people look down on her for not adhering to their beliefs and customs, which give rise to extremist groups like the Veiled Heritance. So while she may not subscribe to those beliefs most know how High Elves feel and think and are opposed to having a High Elf ruler. That seems to me to be the biggest thing against Ayrenn.

jcreinke

EP has a dragon head as their symbol. You cannot get much more powerful than that.

TheShadowScout

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

I keep seeing Ayrenn being called weak...

I think the "weak" in this regard refers to her being "too nice".
Not "doing what needs to be done, winning at every cost" but with a sense of honor and fair play...
Not "screwing over others to ensure altmer supremacy" but believing in the notion of equality and cooperation...
Not "off with their heads" as soon as someone is plotting against her, but calmly considering her options...
Not yelling at underlings when she doesn't get her way (though that wouldn't help, generally only men acting agressive are seen as "strong", woman... more like "hysterical") but keeping her emotions closer to her chest...
Not showing signs of anger or viciousness, but trying to understand things and find a solution that benefits everyone...

It makes sense when you consider the background - Ayrenn ran away when she was just a little girl, and that's how the other altmer remember her. The spoiled little brat who ran away becuase she didn't want to stay at sachool and learn how a good altmer should behave. And that colors how they see her now - as a poser who was of "playing adventuress" while her brother was doing the "real work" of getting his hands (and soul) dirty in politics...
Whereas she was coming back after the old kings death, and hardly knows what is what in her home anymore... thus moves more cautiously and is relying more on advisors to avoid making mistakes... and by doing reinforces the idea that she is weak in the eyes of some who fail to see past the surface.

Naturally much of it is people lying to themselves... they call her "weak" because they -want- her to be weak, so -they- can take over. And ignore all evidence that derails their daydreams of casting down the "weak queen" and sizing power for themselves, or at least their cronies...

But the general "weak little lady" portrayal is something many women face, both in history and also still in real life - when men forget things they ought to know, like a certain poem by Rudyard Kipling outlines rather beautifully...

The Female of the Species

WHEN the Himalayan peasant meets the he-bear in his pride,
He shouts to scare the monster, who will often turn aside.
But the she-bear thus accosted rends the peasant tooth and nail.
For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

When Nag the basking cobra hears the careless foot of man,
He will sometimes wriggle sideways and avoid it if he can.
But his mate makes no such motion where she camps beside the trail.
For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

When the early Jesuit fathers preached to Hurons and Choctaws,
They prayed to be delivered from the vengeance of the squaws.
'Twas the women, not the warriors, turned those stark enthusiasts pale.
For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

Man's timid heart is bursting with the things he must not say,
For the Woman that God gave him isn't his to give away;
But when hunter meets with husbands, each confirms the other's tale—
The female of the species is more deadly than the male.

Man, a bear in most relations—worm and savage otherwise,—
Man propounds negotiations, Man accepts the compromise.
Very rarely will he squarely push the logic of a fact
To its ultimate conclusion in unmitigated act.

Fear, or foolishness, impels him, ere he lay the wicked low,
To concede some form of trial even to his fiercest foe.
Mirth obscene diverts his anger—Doubt and Pity oft perplex
Him in dealing with an issue—to the scandal of The Sex!

But the Woman that God gave him, every fibre of her frame
Proves her launched for one sole issue, armed and engined for the same;
And to serve that single issue, lest the generations fail,
The female of the species must be deadlier than the male.

She who faces Death by torture for each life beneath her breast
May not deal in doubt or pity—must not swerve for fact or jest.
These be purely male diversions—not in these her honour dwells—
She the Other Law we live by, is that Law and nothing else.

She can bring no more to living than the powers that make her great
As the Mother of the Infant and the Mistress of the Mate.
And when Babe and Man are lacking and she strides unclaimed to claim
Her right as femme (and baron), her equipment is the same.

She is wedded to convictions—in default of grosser ties;
Her contentions are her children, Heaven help him who denies!—
He will meet no suave discussion, but the instant, white-hot, wild,
Wakened female of the species warring as for spouse and child.

Unprovoked and awful charges—even so the she-bear fights,
Speech that drips, corrodes, and poisons—even so the cobra bites,
Scientific vivisection of one nerve till it is raw
And the victim writhes in anguish—like the Jesuit with the squaw!

So it comes that Man, the coward, when he gathers to confer
With his fellow-braves in council, dare not leave a place for her
Where, at war with Life and Conscience, he uplifts his erring hands
To some God of Abstract Justice—which no woman understands.

And Man knows it! Knows, moreover, that the Woman that God gave him
Must command but may not govern—shall enthral but not enslave him.
And She knows, because She warns him, and Her instincts never fail,
That the Female of Her Species is more deadly than the Male.

itehache

I choose AD because I wanted to play a Bosmer, that was literally the only reason. Later on I discovered that I had the explorer's pack and I could have chosen whatever Alliance, but I am happy with my choice.

I personally like the AD areas more than any other, I have already played all storylines.

I understand the Altmer-racism problem, and some NPC are ruuuuuuuuude man. But queen Ayrenn is nice and Razum dar is cool af, they're the leaders and they're not racist, so that works for me. I guess it is impossible to control racism (even irl!) but I do not mind to follow Ayrenn's orders because I think she is a good person and even though she wants power bla bla she used to be a warrior and she travelled the world, so she has an open mind and I do respect her for that.

Bam_Bam

BETTER RED THAN DEAD. GO EP

grannas211

Kate Beckingsale. Enough said.

ictopbasli

Blues > Yellows > Reds

jssriot

My 2 cents: just go with AD and be happy. I started with AD, later tried out all the factions, eventually deleted most of my EP toons and some of my DC toons to make room for more AD toons. I never had any desire to be biased one way or another. I really don't care about these fictional factions that much. It's really the player community that drove me in this direction. There's jerks everywhere, but AD's community tends to be less "let's make thinly veiled racist jokes kek kek kek" than EP and less "Well, actually, you losers don't know anything" than DC and more "Just let people enjoy the game," which is more my style. But choose what you wish.

Katahdin

For story: AD hands down

For PvP: DC or AD
EP is faction stacked enough as it is right now .

Feanor

Just never roll EP for no reason whatsoever and you’re golden.

DjMuscleboy02

Kate Beckinsale voices Queen Ayrenn

Danikat

I think the deliberately made it so there's pros and cons to all 3 alliances and no clear winner. Personally I don't like any of them and I'm happy that ultimately none of them win.

Which is good in a way because it makes it easier to take my own preferences out of the equation and assign characters to the alliance I think they would choose. Some of them would barely think about it and so stick with their home alliance (or if their backstory involves travel the alliance of wherever they ended up), others feel quite strongly about it. Although I suspect my perception of each alliance does affect how my characters see it.

For example my khajiit does not trust elves, especially altmer. She left home shortly ahead of the Dominion moving in and is not going back until they're gone. She's far more at home in the Covenant than she ever would be in the Dominion and feels confident that if they win they're far more likely to give the other races a fair deal.

Arciris

Alliance wise, there is no clear "good guy" as you must have already figured out by the number of people telling you so.

However, if you want to feel like the "good guy", then AD is your alliance. All the story line really makes you feel like you're a hero, in the most classic sense of the term. I don't want to go into much spoilers here, but the AD story line was the one where i felt the most "special" but also relevant, from the beginning to the end.

Both EP and DC have important quests where you can allow "evil" things to happen in the future (even if we don't actually see that), so it they are more suited for an "anti-hero" type of character and, generally speaking, I've always felt more like a pawn than a hero in there.

Of course, all of this is highly subjective, so there's nothing like trying out for yourself

O_LYKOS

This is the deepest thread I've ever read here. Just go EP, because Dunmer

Rainraven

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

I keep seeing Ayrenn being called weak. Which is puzzling because, physically she is quite capable. Of all the alliance leaders you don't have to repeatedly save her from death. You have to save Emeric twice and Jorunn at least once.

If by weak you mean young and naive then that's up to perspective. She abdicated her place as heir to travel around Tamriel and see the world only to return to take her place as heir to her father's name. She's worldly and from what I've heard of her backstory seen and been through a lot. She wants to unite all of Tamriel under one banner. The biggest problem is what others have mentioned- her own people look down on her for not adhering to their beliefs and customs, which give rise to extremist groups like the Veiled Heritance. So while she may not subscribe to those beliefs most know how High Elves feel and think and are opposed to having a High Elf ruler. That seems to me to be the biggest thing against Ayrenn.

I mean her position is weak, not so much the elf herself. Her Queendom, not her person. It isn't her age but how new she is to the job, and the simultaneous upheaval of forming the Dominion and trying to grab Cyrodiil. Her base of power is shaky, many of her own people don't respect her and there are continual betrayals. Fortunately she's not stupid, or her reign would have been doomed from the start.

I don't really have a lot of praise for Emeric or Jorunn either, fwiw. The writers have to make them unable to handle their own problems, or we wouldn't have so many quests to do.

Nelson_Rebel

EP because the Dunmer have the Tribunal


Who could simply wipe the other two factions away at any time


Even when Dagoth Ur was causing trouble and Talos came into power he knew he couldn't defeat any of the Tribunal in 1v1 conflict. Let alone all three of them.


Morrowind was never Conquered, the Tribunal
allowed Morrowind to join the empire but largely by name than by Policy. The empire never dictated anything in the Dunmer's land and Talos and his generals all feared even attempting to try and take it by force.


The numidium was a gift BY the Dunmer to Talos lol. Which is the only reason he was able to fight the Altmer Successfully otherwise he would have completely lost to the Altmers mainland Alinor as well.

Osteos

If you like npc characters to continue throughout the story DC is the best choice. It adds a lot to the story for me.

Shardan4968

Just join freaking Ebonheart Pact. It's the best alliance not for idiots talking something about "peace in Tamriel", good joke, or just naivety. We don't need some ancient crap made by racist Ayleid slavers to tell us who is rightful emperor. We fight to prove our value. We have driven out snow demons from Akavir and Dominion can't even solve their problem with pathetic Maormers. Kind Queen is their only argument to join them, I prefer faction which doesn't need to hire Renjira privateers to burn Argonian villages and slaughter innocents. And don't even say that It wasn't dominion which tried to destroy whole race in Shadowfen. Invasion like this needs many months of planning, money and big army. Queen knew about it unless she is just here to look good. Remember Talos will be a Nord (don't listen to bretons, they are liars).

JKorr

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Honestly, if you want a case for a faction ideologically, the Covenant is by far the least....morally ***.

I mean yes they've still raided and burned settlements on the coast but compared to the litteral killing of unborn children by AD, and the Slavery and war from EP, (Of who still do raid Covenant settlements for slaves), the DC guys burning and raiding stuff isn't all that horrible truth be told.

They're also the least ideologically screwed. They only want trade, and reletive peace. They're model is much the same as the imperial model, leting people govern themselves while still answering to a high king.

They want trade and relative peace so they can make gold. Too bad they have a waffle for a king who either can't make or won't make a decision about who will govern part of his territory.

Emeric doesn't want to choose, and doesn't seem like he wants the responsibility at all. Random stranger solves the dreamworld problem. Then that little problem with the vampires gets out of hand, several towns end up eaten, and a random stranger ends up killing the vampires, settling the rebellion, and picking a ruler. Not to mention when Emeric finally does decide to intervene, he ends up kidnapped, killed, trapped in the wrong afterlife, and ends up again being rescued by the same random stranger.

At least Joruun's problems happened because he was too merciful and didn't kill his brother. He made a decision. Wasn't the best one, as it turned out, but he made a decision. That is what the Pact wants, basically; to govern themselves. They did recognize that the only ones who would defend them against the Akaviri slavers were themselves. DC and AD were too busy with their own concerns to get involved, apparently.