Would you sacrifice a hour a day, week, to improve gameplay?

INHUMANENATION

I've played alot of mmo's. I've seen servers reset as often as once an hour, NWN's. To as long as once a day, DCUO. I'd imagine some games have much longer but these resets are performed to improve gameplay and keep down latency, while allowing any small issues to be investigated during the downtime. Eso ps4 NA seems to go really long periods without such resets. For which i can say we all do appreciate.

If it limited latency would the players be willing to sacrifice a hour /day? week? month? for these resets?

Turelus

Former EVE Online player. I actually took a while to get used to playing games which don't have daily downtime.

I am not sure that ESO would be much better for it though unless they're pushing little patches live every day.

DieAlteHexe

Other.

Nightly downtime in UO used to actually lead to some funny stuff right before server down.

Anyway, I think I'd prefer daily to LONG downtimes weekly. If those long downtimes happen to coincide with "your" prime time, it can be a real bummer.

BlanketFort

My first choice would have been an hour a day, but that would really depend on what time of the day. But with how ZOS schedules their maintenance nowadays, there wouldn't be any thought or consideration put in for their EU players, I don't think many would enjoy maintenance between 10:00-12:00 on a daily basis. If it were in the wee hours of the morning (4:00-5:00), then absolutely.
(From what I remember on PC in 2015, there used to be different maintenance times for EU and NA, what happened to that, btw? I'd actually like to know, if someone has the answer )

With that in mind, once a week on a weekday is probably the better compromise. If it actually improved gameplay, why not?

Slick_007

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Other.

Nightly downtime in UO used to actually lead to some funny stuff right before server down.

Anyway, I think I'd prefer daily to LONG downtimes weekly. If those long downtimes happen to coincide with "your" prime time, it can be a real bummer.

and when the daily downtimes coincide with your primetime EVERY DAY, its much worse

DieAlteHexe

Slick_007 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Other.

Nightly downtime in UO used to actually lead to some funny stuff right before server down.

Anyway, I think I'd prefer daily to LONG downtimes weekly. If those long downtimes happen to coincide with "your" prime time, it can be a real bummer.

and when the daily downtimes coincide with your primetime EVERY DAY, its much worse

If it did, yes but generally these down times were at around 0400 which is not when the vast majority of folk are playing. This is, btw, actually MY prime time and it wasn't that big a deal.

ssorgatem

One hour downtime may not be nearly enough to bring down the servers, update/fix/patch them, investigate issues and bring them back online.

And more frequent downtime does not necessarily mean better performance.

DieAlteHexe

ssorgatem wrote: »

One hour downtime may not be nearly enough to bring down the servers, update/fix/patch them, investigate issues and bring them back online.

And more frequent downtime does not necessarily mean better performance.

Not sure how they did it in "days of old" but that (daily downs) used to be pretty standard. Not enough of a coder to be able to truly debate that one.

I just found it less intrusive a hour or so daily vs. multiple hours weekly. Just a preference.

INHUMANENATION

I was the GM of a mmorpg 60 player server a bit ago and we had hardcoded resets once an hour. It was tremendously effective on latency issues. Although this was a persistent world that if we didn't reset the server the bosses wouldn't be up as they were on a longer than 60 minute respawn.

No maintenance or patches were added. It was just simply a tool against lag. @ssorgatem

danno8

I want GW1 and GW2 downtime. Hot patching while server is still running and players can keep playing, virtually no server downtime whatsoever.

Like the games or not, you can not deny the server technology is far ahead of everyone else when it comes to downtimes.

VaranisArano

From what I've seen, ESO's problem is not the sort of small, constantly occuring problems that a short daily maintenance period could catch and fix.

ESO's problem is that updates to the base game tend to break something fundamental to the game, whether small like a class skill, or major like loading screens for certain platforms. Or for a past example, the time they broke groupfinder.

Generally when there is a small fix that can be done immediate, ZOS has either taken the time for maintenance quickly or bundled the smaller fixes into the regular weekly maintenance. But the major issues that occur with base game updates tend to take more of a dedicated fix team where a daily period of maintenance would not make a difference.

ArchMikem

Dude I literally put the game down for days to weeks at a time cause I have/want other things to do, or frankly just don't have the urge atm. I can't understand how people freak out when they can't log in for a few hours. The game isn't going anywhere.

And yes I full expect someone to reply telling me "I paid for this I expect uptime" and so forth but like I just said, the game isn't going anywhere and the game needs maintenance. Patience is a virtue.

grannas211

I mean it's taken almost a month to fix the load screen issues when it's all said and done, but hey, at least the wardens bear sniff animation was decreased.

Zaldan

lol people already do unless those/bug reports really do just go straight in the spam filter

zyk

Any game that requires a server reset every hour is too broken for the devs to fix at some level. That is not the sign of a healthy game. No game would be engineered with that requirement.

Resets should have no impact on network latency unless the network functions are riddled with significant bugs. Frequent resets are just as likely to create issues, depending on what's involved in the process -- which none of us know or can guess.

There's no reason to presume ESO would be appreciably improved by daily resets. This is a grasping at straws kind of consideration akin to the suggestions we used to see to shut down ESO for weeks or months as if that would make it easier for the devs to fix its problems.

AnviOfVai

Heck at this point of ESO I say take it down for 2 months or more, get the screens fixed, sort out PVP sort out PVE and glitches, re-release the game as mark 2. I just want to be able to play it like the old days... *sigh*

Ch4mpTW

I would be fine with the server being taken down for about a hour or so weekly. This of course being to insure that maintenance is kept up, and that performance is optimal.

zyk

AnviOfVai wrote: »

Heck at this point of ESO I say take it down for 2 months or more, get the screens fixed, sort out PVP sort out PVE and glitches, re-release the game as mark 2. I just want to be able to play it like the old days... *sigh*

This makes no sense at all. There is no conceivable way this would help ZOS improve ESO.

Knootewoot

I would sacrifice 6 months if they could improve it. Even a year.

Rouven

By Sanguine I will sacrifice more than an hour, I will sacrifice a slab of bacon, sliced and grilled crispy until I can crunch no more. I shall wash it down with the cheapest vino I can find for my dedication knows no bounds.

I am part of the solution.

INHUMANENATION

zyk wrote: »

Any game that requires a server reset every hour is too broken for the devs to fix at some level. That is not the sign of a healthy game. No game would be engineered with that requirement.

Resets should have no impact on network latency unless the network functions are riddled with significant bugs. Frequent resets are just as likely to create issues, depending on what's involved in the process -- which none of us know or can guess.

There's no reason to presume ESO would be appreciably improved by daily resets. This is a grasping at straws kind of consideration akin to the suggestions we used to see to shut down ESO for weeks or months as if that would make it easier for the devs to fix its problems.

Would you say the same about any system? If so I would ask you to kindly leave your console or PC on for a month without a hard reset and tell me how that goes for you. I would hate to misquote people as well but Im pretty sure hyperbole is being used in more than one instance in this thread so I wouldn't take those comments literally.

Jaimeh

I wouldn't mind regular downtime for considerable improvement, but then which hour of the day - any time they'd choose is bound to coincide with prime time on some parts.

Mojmir

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Other.

Nightly downtime in UO used to actually lead to some funny stuff right before server down.

Anyway, I think I'd prefer daily to LONG downtimes weekly. If those long downtimes happen to coincide with "your" prime time, it can be a real bummer.

Everyone throwing all there rare items on the ground at the bank, Lol

ssorgatem

INHUMANENATION wrote: »

I was the GM of a mmorpg 60 player server a bit ago and we had hardcoded resets once an hour. It was tremendously effective on latency issues. Although this was a persistent world that if we didn't reset the server the bosses wouldn't be up as they were on a longer than 60 minute respawn.

No maintenance or patches were added. It was just simply a tool against lag. @ssorgatem

It doesn't mean the same applies to ESO servers.

TBH, if resets were so necessary, there was something wrong with the server code.

INHUMANENATION

ssorgatem wrote: »

INHUMANENATION wrote: »

I was the GM of a mmorpg 60 player server a bit ago and we had hardcoded resets once an hour. It was tremendously effective on latency issues. Although this was a persistent world that if we didn't reset the server the bosses wouldn't be up as they were on a longer than 60 minute respawn.

No maintenance or patches were added. It was just simply a tool against lag. @ssorgatem

It doesn't mean the same applies to ESO servers.

TBH, if resets were so necessary, there was something wrong with the server code.

Ummmm... w/out describing or having to explain network latency to you I'll just say this. Having a reset allows the system to RESET. So if a few errant packets of data corrupt something it wont be allowed to continue to corrupt something. Ever have poor connection with your ISP? Why do you think the very first thing they tell you to do is reset everything? Surely having to reset it doesn't mean there's something wrong with the ISP.

Servers are servers so I don't see how it would be any different. Resets aren't necessary so much as they would simply help alleviate a lot of clutter. Which would improve gameplay. The server accumulates data from everything done in it. Wiping the slate would delete all of the accumulated data.

ssorgatem

INHUMANENATION wrote: »

ssorgatem wrote: »

INHUMANENATION wrote: »

I was the GM of a mmorpg 60 player server a bit ago and we had hardcoded resets once an hour. It was tremendously effective on latency issues. Although this was a persistent world that if we didn't reset the server the bosses wouldn't be up as they were on a longer than 60 minute respawn.

No maintenance or patches were added. It was just simply a tool against lag. @ssorgatem

It doesn't mean the same applies to ESO servers.

TBH, if resets were so necessary, there was something wrong with the server code.

Ummmm... w/out describing or having to explain network latency to you I'll just say this. Having a reset allows the system to RESET. So if a few errant packets of data corrupt something it wont be allowed to continue to corrupt something. Ever have poor connection with your ISP? Why do you think the very first thing they tell you to do is reset everything? Surely having to reset it doesn't mean there's something wrong with the ISP.

Servers are servers so I don't see how it would be any different. Resets aren't necessary so much as they would simply help alleviate a lot of clutter. Which would improve gameplay. The server accumulates data from everything done in it. Wiping the slate would delete all of the accumulated data.

The ISP making you reset everything would be akin to ZoS asking players to reset their computers.

What you are asking for would be like your ISP leaving you without connection for a few hours in order to "alleviate a lot of clutter".

If the server is properly written and is running on an OS with a solid network stack and hardware, there's no reason to reset anything in order to improve latency or whatever.

If latency icnreases with uptime, that's something they need to fix.

A proper server can achieve uptimes beyond a decade without performance degradation.

Smmokkee

Id be ok with it going down for 3 months if it meant a cleaner running game.

INHUMANENATION

ssorgatem wrote: »

INHUMANENATION wrote: »

ssorgatem wrote: »

INHUMANENATION wrote: »

I was the GM of a mmorpg 60 player server a bit ago and we had hardcoded resets once an hour. It was tremendously effective on latency issues. Although this was a persistent world that if we didn't reset the server the bosses wouldn't be up as they were on a longer than 60 minute respawn.

No maintenance or patches were added. It was just simply a tool against lag. @ssorgatem

It doesn't mean the same applies to ESO servers.

TBH, if resets were so necessary, there was something wrong with the server code.

Ummmm... w/out describing or having to explain network latency to you I'll just say this. Having a reset allows the system to RESET. So if a few errant packets of data corrupt something it wont be allowed to continue to corrupt something. Ever have poor connection with your ISP? Why do you think the very first thing they tell you to do is reset everything? Surely having to reset it doesn't mean there's something wrong with the ISP.

Servers are servers so I don't see how it would be any different. Resets aren't necessary so much as they would simply help alleviate a lot of clutter. Which would improve gameplay. The server accumulates data from everything done in it. Wiping the slate would delete all of the accumulated data.

The ISP making you reset everything would be akin to ZoS asking players to reset their computers.

What you are asking for would be like your ISP leaving you without connection for a few hours in order to "alleviate a lot of clutter".

If the server is properly written and is running on an OS with a solid network stack and hardware, there's no reason to reset anything in order to improve latency or whatever.

If latency icnreases with uptime, that's something they need to fix.

A proper server can achieve uptimes beyond a decade without performance degradation.

I'm not a system administrator but it's a well known fact rebooting increases responsiveness. I've heard of one server that lasted over a decade but it was a lan network and if more exist I'm curious which ones and what kind of service they facilitated. It's also well known in the industry that 8.5 hours downtime just for resets and reboots is the maximum tolerance for downtime per year in the sector. Which allows companies and individuals to advertise a 99.9% uptime.

I will apologize for saying a hour per day. That was to simply allow for any maintenance to be performed. I did mean that simply a daily reset of 5 mins would achieve the results im talking about.

I do hold firm to my claim increased uptime does increase delayed responsiveness though. Quality of performance degrades over time with nearly every machine which is why everything requires maintenance and care. The server I was Gm of we actually enforced the "no-spam" rule pretty vehemently because it was data that would get saved to the vault and would bog down the server if left unchecked. Once we reset the server the data was wiped and we could no longer read what was said because it had been wiped. I just think with a game as dynamic as ESO with places such a Cyrodiil it wouldn't hurt to do the same thing once a day.

Tandor

BlanketFort wrote: »

(From what I remember on PC in 2015, there used to be different maintenance times for EU and NA, what happened to that, btw? I'd actually like to know, if someone has the answer )

The EU and NA servers used to run off separate game installations in those days, now they're both accessed from a single game installation so it makes sense for maintenance and patching to be done simultaneously. Running different server versions off the same client version would presumably be problematic.

As to the original poll question, I don't actually have any performance or other problems with the game, but if there are issues for which ZOS have solutions then it makes sense for them to be run as part of the scheduled maintenance with occasional separate hotfixes as necessary. If there is a proven need for the servers to be rebooted more frequently then that would also be fair enough, but I'm happy for ZOS to make the decisions on that.