Add a short cast time to Power Bash (and morphs)

Solariken

Power Bash and its morphs need a short (non-interruptable) cast time that matches the length of the animation. This animation would look and behave similar to Uppercut. Animation cancelling is generally tolerable for the majority of skills but when cancelled this particular skill is problematic for two reasons:

1) It is abusive/exploitative in that its CC is more punishing than most and has a longer delay before the victim is allowed to break free, which allows the assailant to start wailing on the target well before the CC has even set in.

There is also some odd interaction with distance when combined with heavy attack and bar swap - there are a couple of players who I will not name who consistently land this skill from 12-15 meters away (not kidding).

Additionally, swap-cancelling Power Bash seems to make it ignore dodge (roll specifically) (needs further testing)

2) It makes this game's combat look and feel like bottom-tier garbage. Not all skills/buffs look totally trashy when animation-cancelled, but Power Bash is IMO the worst of all. The victim staggers and flails violently but the assailant just looks like he made a harmless weapon swap. It looks ridiculous.


Reverberating Bash is a SUPER strong skill/morph in it's own right. The things you can accomplish by swap-cancelling it border on abuse and makes the skill somewhat toxic in PvP environments. @ZOS_Wrobel I'm hoping you will do the right thing and add a cast time ASAP.

This suggestion is going to ruffle some feathers and maybe hurt some feelings but this is long over due.

JackWest92

Solariken wrote: »

.There is also some odd interaction with distance when combined with heavy attack and bar swap - there are a couple of players who I will not name who consistently land this skill from 12-15 meters away (not kidding).
.

This is happening to me on a daily basis. Always followed by a 'wtf' and me getting pissed, coz due to how squishy i am jn my medium gear that allows them to kill me(since i deliberately kept my distance to avoid that stun but still get it)

Waffennacht

I respectfully disagree with adding a cast time.

I'm all for fixing bugs.

Joy_Division

Solariken wrote: »

This suggestion is going to ruffle some feathers and maybe hurt some feelings ...

You aren't kidding about that.

My gut anecdotal worthless impression matches what you feel is happening with regards to the delay to the CC and the near impossibility to see the skill being cast. I can live with not seeing it coming since the only skills that I can see clearly are cast-times and anything with a single hand raised in the air (like Mage's Fury). But I *hate* getting CCed with this ability because it does seem like forever until it actually allows me to break it, way longer than every other stun in the game.

I remember this skill got it's CC mechanic "fixed" a long time ago because the disorient wouldn't break under certain conditions. It's about time this gets re-examined. If anyone has got a decent recording program and editor, I'd be very interested to see some timed clips how long it takes to CC break Reverb and juxtapose that with breaking something like Flame Clench or Fossilize.

I do agree Reverb is super strong and a bit surprised I don't see more people using it. Though I'm not sure adding a cast time is the way to go as I (and most people) hate cast-times. In general, I think there should be a moratorium on nerfs for about 3 years or so since we had so many. Fix the CC delay. Fix the range issue if that's a thing. I'd say do that first.

CatchMeTrolling

They just need to fix the cc, it’s buggy like most ccs but I don’t see that happening for awhile, fear still hasn’t been fixed and so many complained about that skill.

TheYKcid

I've consistently had issues with breaking the CC of reverb, but always assumed it was due to slow reactions on my part - because there isn't much of a telegraph (especially when ani-cancelled) and also because your character's animation when hit by it (gently swaying) isn't as immediately visible as say, being knocked-down/fossilised/rune-caged etc.

I'm very interested to know whether there's an actual broken mechanic at play. It'd make me feel a little better about myself, if nothing else, lol.

Waffennacht

@TheYKcid all CCs can be buggy. For me, one of the worst is getting CC'd and your character does no animation at all, just stands there, always takes me a sec (because he's not responding to my commands) to realize I gotta CC break.

I more or less anticipate CC breaks now,is my character not side stepping? - CC break just in case

Solariken

I would expect this to be met with some resistance from players who [ab]use it, but it's important to try to be at least a little objective and realize a cast time akin to Uppercut would make the ability balanced and make combat overall a better experience for everyone. If they did this I would even support a damage increase.

SodanTok

I can deal with the fact that this skill literally looks like user just thinks of stun and stun is delivered. I can say it is very annoying that there is no way to deal with it than to eat it (or surprise opponent with CC pot), because your block or dodge must always happen before the cast (giving enemy chance simply not use it till you leave dodge), but what is just utter BS is the apparent range. Often I get hit from range I was not even able to cast my own (10m) CC

Some mini cast time then could be good change (or could be very horrible, like that miniscule change on dark deal), but bugs must be fixed.

Lexxypwns

Joy_Division wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

This suggestion is going to ruffle some feathers and maybe hurt some feelings ...

You aren't kidding about that.

My gut anecdotal worthless impression matches what you feel is happening with regards to the delay to the CC and the near impossibility to see the skill being cast. I can live with not seeing it coming since the only skills that I can see clearly are cast-times and anything with a single hand raised in the air (like Mage's Fury). But I *hate* getting CCed with this ability because it does seem like forever until it actually allows me to break it, way longer than every other stun in the game.

I remember this skill got it's CC mechanic "fixed" a long time ago because the disorient wouldn't break under certain conditions. It's about time this gets re-examined. If anyone has got a decent recording program and editor, I'd be very interested to see some timed clips how long it takes to CC break Reverb and juxtapose that with breaking something like Flame Clench or Fossilize.

I do agree Reverb is super strong and a bit surprised I don't see more people using it. Though I'm not sure adding a cast time is the way to go as I (and most people) hate cast-times. In general, I think there should be a moratorium on nerfs for about 3 years or so since we had so many. Fix the CC delay. Fix the range issue if that's a thing. I'd say do that first.

Destro CC is a bad CC to compare to since it sometimes locks you in the knockback animation.

Unrelated to the bugs @Solariken is experiencing with Reverb I'm also having a lot of CC's go through block when I've got stamina and they shouldn't. Particularly reach and meteor(in duels, not the old open world bug where someone else fails to block and you get CC'ed). I think it's really sad that we are looking to re-work skills because there are bugs, but that's the state of the game ZoS has given us.

Solariken

SodanTok wrote: »

I can deal with the fact that this skill literally looks like user just thinks of stun and stun is delivered. I can say it is very annoying that there is no way to deal with it than to eat it (or surprise opponent with CC pot), because your block or dodge must always happen before the cast (giving enemy chance simply not use it till you leave dodge), but what is just utter BS is the apparent range. Often I get hit from range I was not even able to cast my own (10m) CC

Some mini cast time then could be good change (or could be very horrible, like that miniscule change on dark deal), but bugs must be fixed.

How could a cast time be horrible? Uppercut and Snipe have cast times and those skills look and feel great IMO.

Solariken

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

This suggestion is going to ruffle some feathers and maybe hurt some feelings ...

You aren't kidding about that.

My gut anecdotal worthless impression matches what you feel is happening with regards to the delay to the CC and the near impossibility to see the skill being cast. I can live with not seeing it coming since the only skills that I can see clearly are cast-times and anything with a single hand raised in the air (like Mage's Fury). But I *hate* getting CCed with this ability because it does seem like forever until it actually allows me to break it, way longer than every other stun in the game.

I remember this skill got it's CC mechanic "fixed" a long time ago because the disorient wouldn't break under certain conditions. It's about time this gets re-examined. If anyone has got a decent recording program and editor, I'd be very interested to see some timed clips how long it takes to CC break Reverb and juxtapose that with breaking something like Flame Clench or Fossilize.

I do agree Reverb is super strong and a bit surprised I don't see more people using it. Though I'm not sure adding a cast time is the way to go as I (and most people) hate cast-times. In general, I think there should be a moratorium on nerfs for about 3 years or so since we had so many. Fix the CC delay. Fix the range issue if that's a thing. I'd say do that first.

Destro CC is a bad CC to compare to since it sometimes locks you in the knockback animation.

Unrelated to the bugs @Solariken is experiencing with Reverb I'm also having a lot of CC's go through block when I've got stamina and they shouldn't. Particularly reach and meteor(in duels, not the old open world bug where someone else fails to block and you get CC'ed). I think it's really sad that we are looking to re-work skills because there are bugs, but that's the state of the game ZoS has given us.

It's not even a skill rework that I'm lobbying for. It would hit the same and look the same, except that you wouldn't be able to skip the animation and create all these odd/exploitative behaviors.

The animation is actually very similar in length to Uppercut/Snipe which both have necessary cast times.

Ankael07

Oh great.. like the whole CP system wasnt burdening enough now ZOS have to put animation cancelling into consideration before making a balance change.

ak_pvp

Fix bug, don't make s/b worse.

WillhelmBlack

Can't even remember what the full animation looks like. Is it the bash guards do?

Rajajshka

I think power bash had a cast time pre-imperial city, I could be wrong though my memories kinda bad.

Waffennacht

First off, the vast majority of people like myself, whom don't wish to see a cast time, aren't exploiters or abusers.

Next, if you were to add a cast time like WB/DS then it should deal comparable damage.

Domander

Strongly disagree about a cast time

Tormy

Disagree on cast time

DosPanchos

It is the best skill in the SnB lineup imo but SnB already has built in disadvantages that have to be overcome... fix the animation if need be (I'd be happy if the animation became immediate), but there are bigger fish to fry in ESO atm.

Thogard

Reverb is usually only a problem if the player also uses an immov poison. The weapon skill line stuns all get buggy when combined with this poison because of the order in which the CC hits the target... it’s usually only a problem with the wep skill line stuns (dizzy and reverb) because the class or guild stuns can’t proc a poison.

umagon

If it had a cast time then it would become almost impossible to land, because addons would pickup the cast event.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Dreadhsif1978 wrote: »

I think power bash had a cast time pre-imperial city, I could be wrong though my memories kinda bad.

It did, and it wasn't used because of that. Power bash definitely doesn't need a cast time

Solariken

umagon wrote: »

If it had a cast time then it would become almost impossible to land, because addons would pickup the cast event.

Guess we should remove cast times from Dark Flare, Snipe, and Uppercut too. Wouldn't that be fun

It looks like ZOS might finally be addressing the add-on issue per the thread by @JonnytheKing