This is beyond stupid - easily one of the dumbest things I have ever seen on a video game

Jeremy

So I've been inside the Imperial City last couple of days trying to make it to a crafting station so I can make some shield for my writ. My first attempt ended embarrassingly with me realizing I forgot to purchase the style material so I had to make this journey twice. lol

To sum it up: I've been getting my butt kicked down there and dying over and over. Some flying vampire guy who spawns armies I couldn't even hurt. These flag-holding mobs who do crazy damage and seem to chase you forever if you try to get away. I was able to kill the blue one - once - though it was certainly not easy. The red one just does so much damage my heals can't keep up (no matter how many of them I stack) and seeing as he chases you forever well I guess dying was my only option there too.

So why was my character - capable of soloing world bosses and dungeons and doing veteran content - getting his @$$ handed to him so easily? Then I finally noticed why - my heals are cut in half?

wtf

So let me get this straight - my heals are cut in half yet the damage of everything else isn't? What genius came up with that idea? Why would anyone want to play a character that focuses on healing in this game when it comes to anything PvP-related if all my abilities are cut in half yet the offensive abilities of everyone else remains untouched? I guess healers are just suppose to be sacrificial lambs in PvP huh?

I don't know who is responsible for this - and I'll be charitable and say misguided decision - but nice job. You just alienated me from ever wanting to have anything to do with your PvP. The developers of this game have an obvious bias against healers and instead favor offensive play-styles and builds (this is also evident in VMA). It's extremely unfair to the players who favor and create these kind of builds. So if you have some weird thing against healers then just remove them from your game or something already - because cutting them in half and then expecting them to go up against players who remain at full strength when it comes to their build's specialty is beyond unfair and stupid.

I'm usually quite positive in respect to this game (you can check my past history to see that). But this is one area where the game fails spectacularly. So until you change this grossly unfair and annoying disadvantage you can count me out of ever wasting my time dying in your Imperial City or anywhere else you feel a need to slash my character in half and putting me at the mercy of everything else.

Casul

Damage between players is also cut in half, as is shield strength.

Mettaricana

Fun fact you dont have to take the sewers to get to crafting station just use the latters and pop up in the district where the station is

Jeremy

BuildMan wrote: »

Damage between players is also cut in half, as is shield strength.

My damage looked the same to me.

Maybe between players it's like that - but when it comes to enemies it isn't. So basically I'm at half strength while fighting everything down there where as offensive builds who do not focus on healing skills aren't.

That's unfair in my book. And I wonder how offensive builds would enjoy having their damage slashed in half on everything they fight down there.

Jeremy

Mettaricana wrote: »

Fun fact you dont have to take the sewers to get to crafting station just use the latters and pop up in the district where the station is

I used the ladder. But it seemed to be only a one way exit.

rustic_potato

Wait you died to NPCs in Imperial City? ROFL

Asmael

You DO take half damage from mobs as well (which is why mobs inside delves are so easy to deal with), as well as an extra 5,000 HP before multipliers, and on top of that, a bonus to the range of your long range abilities (28m). And enemy players will also deal 50% less damage to you as well.

If Battle spirit wasn't a thing, you'd die to an enemy before any healing whatsoever can possibly save you (which was already almost the case in 1.6 - but it would be even worse).

Jeremy

rustic_potato wrote: »

Wait you died to NPCs in Imperial City? ROFL

Yes I did. Many times. In fact I lost count.

Try going in there as a build that focuses on healing and I suspect you may have similar results.

Jeremy

Asmael wrote: »

You DO take half damage from mobs as well (which is why mobs inside delves are so easy to deal with), as well as an extra 5,000 HP before multipliers, and on top of that, a bonus to the range of your long range abilities (28m). And enemy players will also deal 50% less damage to you as well.

If Battle spirit wasn't a thing, you'd die to an enemy before any healing whatsoever can possibly save you (which was already almost the case in 1.6 - but it would be even worse).

Well if that is half damage from the mobs then i would hate to see what they hit for with full damage.

But that is beside the point. The point is my offense was not affected. My damage was the same as it always was. Yet my healing (which is my character's focus) was hugely nerfed by half.

There is no way to defend that. If they are going to slash my healing in half then they should slash everyone else's damage in half as well. And not just when fighting players either. But everything down there - many of which are quite nasty.

exeeter702

Holy *** this is rich......

Sheezabeast

I'm lucky that my trade guild has all the crafting stations from IC, so I never have to go there to craft again, just visit the guild hall.

That sucks you had a hard time, did you remember to bring a sigil to port out of the crafting locations? Thats what I used to do.

Jeremy

exeeter702 wrote: »

Holy *** this is rich......

What's rich is screwing healers over and slashing the effectiveness of their abilities by half.

If they had slashed all my offensive abilities by half too (when fighting monsters) I would not have minded as much. At least that way offensive characters would have the enjoyment of being reduced to half as well.

kargen27

Jeremy wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

Fun fact you dont have to take the sewers to get to crafting station just use the latters and pop up in the district where the station is

I used the ladder. But it seemed to be only a one way exit.

Use the ladder to get to the district you need and sneak to the crafting station. After you craft your gear travel to a different campaign and you are back in Cyradiil safe and sound. My failed tank (race/class combo was as bad a choice as could be made) became my crafter so he had to sneak everywhere in the Imperial City. I did get the fishing accomplishment there though so he was good at sneaking and hiding. He was also very efficient when came to dying, did it with little or no fuss on their part.

Now I have a guild mate that has the attunable stations in his home so I can just go there and relax.

Loralai_907

Best advice I can give you is find a guild that has all the set crafting tables in one location and just go there instead of running across the land to do master writs.

Jeremy

kargen27 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

Fun fact you dont have to take the sewers to get to crafting station just use the latters and pop up in the district where the station is

I used the ladder. But it seemed to be only a one way exit.

Use the ladder to get to the district you need and sneak to the crafting station. After you craft your gear travel to a different campaign and you are back in Cyradiil safe and sound. My failed tank (race/class combo was as bad a choice as could be made) became my crafter so he had to sneak everywhere in the Imperial City. I did get the fishing accomplishment there though so he was good at sneaking and hiding. He was also very efficient when came to dying, did it with little or no fuss on their part.

Now I have a guild mate that has the attunable stations in his home so I can just go there and relax.

I used to think attunable stations were a waste of points. It's safe to say this experience has changed my mind about that.

Jeremy

mommadani907 wrote: »

Best advice I can give you is find a guild that has all the set crafting tables in one location and just go there instead of running across the land to do master writs.

I didn't mind it before because other zones do not slash my healing in half and then throw monsters who chase you literally forever and who do more damage than my now pitiful heals can counter at me.

This zone is basically one giant f u to healers.

LiquidPony

Dude.

Go to your sewer base. Go to the ladders. Pick the ladder that leads up to the district that has your crafting station (Noble's Conquest: Noble's District; Redistributor: Arboretum District; Armor Master: Memorial District). Go up the ladder. Go to the crafting station. Craft your stuff. Delete this post.

There is absolutely no reason for you to be in the sewers fighting anything unless you want to be.

Alternatively, join a guild that has all the attunable crafting stations. Most large trading guilds offer this perk.

Drummerx04

Jeremy wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Damage between players is also cut in half, as is shield strength.

My damage looked the same to me.

Maybe between players it's like that - but when it comes to enemies it isn't. So basically I'm at half strength while fighting everything down there where as offensive builds who do not focus on healing skills aren't.

That's unfair in my book. And I wonder how offensive builds would enjoy having their damage slashed in half on everything they fight down there.

If damage was slashed in half, it would take me 4 seconds to kill all the mobs instead of 2. Actually, it would be like IC never got nerfed in the first place back when the mobs had double health from what they are now and I think extra damage, but it wouldn't make much of a difference either way.

But honestly, if healing was suddenly changed so it wasn't cut in half by battle spirit, PvP would be damn near impossible since one guy could stack springs and make himself and everyone around him almost unkillable. Even with healing cut in half, a good healer is absolutely noticeable in a fight on either side and a heal tank group is pretty much unkillable.

Like it or not, PvP is about killing people, so ZOS very pointedly and correctly believes that damage should be able to outpace healing on average (very obvious by the difference between the mechanics in healing AoE caps and DPS AoE caps).

Healers are still powerful, and good ones are always welcome in my group, but you are just going to have to accept reduced healing if you intend to PvP... which apparently you don't any more.

Jeremy

LiquidPony wrote: »

Dude.

Go to your sewer base. Go to the ladders. Pick the ladder that leads up to the district that has your crafting station (Noble's Conquest: Noble's District; Redistributor: Arboretum District; Armor Master: Memorial District). Go up the ladder. Go to the crafting station. Craft your stuff. Delete this post.

There is absolutely no reason for you to be in the sewers fighting anything unless you want to be.

Alternatively, join a guild that has all the attunable crafting stations. Most large trading guilds offer this perk.

You are the one who should consider deleting posts.

Whether I have to be there, need to be there, or should be there is irrelevant.

The point is healers should not have their abilities slashed in half while fighting monsters there. If they are going to do that - then they should should slash everyone's damage in half while fighting monsters there as well.

Jeremy

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Damage between players is also cut in half, as is shield strength.

My damage looked the same to me.

Maybe between players it's like that - but when it comes to enemies it isn't. So basically I'm at half strength while fighting everything down there where as offensive builds who do not focus on healing skills aren't.

That's unfair in my book. And I wonder how offensive builds would enjoy having their damage slashed in half on everything they fight down there.

If damage was slashed in half, it would take me 4 seconds to kill all the mobs instead of 2. Actually, it would be like IC never got nerfed in the first place back when the mobs had double health from what they are now and I think extra damage, but it wouldn't make much of a difference either way.

But honestly, if healing was suddenly changed so it wasn't cut in half by battle spirit, PvP would be damn near impossible since one guy could stack springs and make himself and everyone around him almost unkillable. Even with healing cut in half, a good healer is absolutely noticeable in a fight on either side and a heal tank group is pretty much unkillable.

Like it or not, PvP is about killing people, so ZOS very pointedly and correctly believes that damage should be able to outpace healing on average (very obvious by the difference between the mechanics in healing AoE caps and DPS AoE caps).

Healers are still powerful, and good ones are always welcome in my group, but you are just going to have to accept reduced healing if you intend to PvP... which apparently you don't any more.

No. Like it or not, slashing my healing abilities in half while leaving your offensive abilities the same is unfair. I doesn't matter how you try to justify it.

And there is a lot more in Imperial City then other players. The place is crawling with monsters.

Danksta

I'm glad my crafter is a NB.

smacx250

Yeah, I'm glad I don't have to do that any more (guild has every crafting station now). And I didn't know that you could cheese out of finding your way back by changing campaigns - that would have made it easier/faster!

Drummerx04

Jeremy wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Damage between players is also cut in half, as is shield strength.

My damage looked the same to me.

Maybe between players it's like that - but when it comes to enemies it isn't. So basically I'm at half strength while fighting everything down there where as offensive builds who do not focus on healing skills aren't.

That's unfair in my book. And I wonder how offensive builds would enjoy having their damage slashed in half on everything they fight down there.

If damage was slashed in half, it would take me 4 seconds to kill all the mobs instead of 2. Actually, it would be like IC never got nerfed in the first place back when the mobs had double health from what they are now and I think extra damage, but it wouldn't make much of a difference either way.

But honestly, if healing was suddenly changed so it wasn't cut in half by battle spirit, PvP would be damn near impossible since one guy could stack springs and make himself and everyone around him almost unkillable. Even with healing cut in half, a good healer is absolutely noticeable in a fight on either side and a heal tank group is pretty much unkillable.

Like it or not, PvP is about killing people, so ZOS very pointedly and correctly believes that damage should be able to outpace healing on average (very obvious by the difference between the mechanics in healing AoE caps and DPS AoE caps).

Healers are still powerful, and good ones are always welcome in my group, but you are just going to have to accept reduced healing if you intend to PvP... which apparently you don't any more.

No. Like it or not slashing my healing abilities in half while leaving your offensive abilities the same is unfair. I doesn't matter how you try to justify it.

1. Offensive abilities are cut in half against players
2. My healing is also cut in half while fighting mobs (my shields too)

So your opinion is the only one that matters and no amount of reasoning or discussion will lead you to believe that your position isn't perfect?

Okay then, have a good life.

Jeremy

smacx250 wrote: »

Yeah, I'm glad I don't have to do that any more (guild has every crafting station now). And I didn't know that you could cheese out of finding your way back by changing campaigns - that would have made it easier/faster!

I didn't know about this either.

Will certainly try it next time I have a cause to enter that crap hole.

Idinuse

Well you soloed a flag boss in the sewers and won, that's pretty damn impressive to me. Stay away from the bosses, find the crafting station on the city map, check what district and climb the right ladder. From there sneak to the crafting station.

Jeremy

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Damage between players is also cut in half, as is shield strength.

My damage looked the same to me.

Maybe between players it's like that - but when it comes to enemies it isn't. So basically I'm at half strength while fighting everything down there where as offensive builds who do not focus on healing skills aren't.

That's unfair in my book. And I wonder how offensive builds would enjoy having their damage slashed in half on everything they fight down there.

If damage was slashed in half, it would take me 4 seconds to kill all the mobs instead of 2. Actually, it would be like IC never got nerfed in the first place back when the mobs had double health from what they are now and I think extra damage, but it wouldn't make much of a difference either way.

But honestly, if healing was suddenly changed so it wasn't cut in half by battle spirit, PvP would be damn near impossible since one guy could stack springs and make himself and everyone around him almost unkillable. Even with healing cut in half, a good healer is absolutely noticeable in a fight on either side and a heal tank group is pretty much unkillable.

Like it or not, PvP is about killing people, so ZOS very pointedly and correctly believes that damage should be able to outpace healing on average (very obvious by the difference between the mechanics in healing AoE caps and DPS AoE caps).

Healers are still powerful, and good ones are always welcome in my group, but you are just going to have to accept reduced healing if you intend to PvP... which apparently you don't any more.

No. Like it or not slashing my healing abilities in half while leaving your offensive abilities the same is unfair. I doesn't matter how you try to justify it.

So your opinion is the only one that matters and no amount of reasoning or discussion will lead you to believe that your position isn't perfect?

Okay then, have a good life.

So only you get to use such language?

If you are going to tell me that like it or not you're right - then I can do the same.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander ^^

Bakkagami

ignoring the fact that you are complaining about not being able to solo on a heal oriented build...

Everyone's heals are cut in half so i would argue it hurts those who only have vigor or the like as a heal a lot more than it hurts you. If you can't kill them, skip them, people complaining about not being able to kill things is how we got the game to the sad, easymode situation that it is at now. Those mobs aren't even worth the trouble in my opinion anyway, aside from the district bosses nothing in ic is worth bothering to kill.

Jeremy

Idinuse wrote: »

Well you soloed a flag boss in the sewers and won, that's pretty damn impressive to me. Stay away from the bosses, find the crafting station on the city map, check what district and climb the right ladder. From there sneak to the crafting station.

Oh, and don't mind the "I one shoot everything in the game and it's not just my BiW build (best in world) but it's actually my skills and fast fingers...and muscle memory, I'm so good I'm marrying myself" ***. Their egos are so self inflated they talk with a helium voice....

Only the blue one. The red one killed me - or whether I let it kill me after running around with it chasing me for a half hour (and I'm not exaggerating..... it must chase you literally forever). If my heals had not been cut in half however I could have probably beaten it.

And honestly that's what annoys me so much about this. It's how they cut my healing in half. If they are going to put players who focus on healing skills at a disadvantage when fighting enemies down there then they should do the same to offensive characters.

geonsocal

for a minute I thought this might be a necro thread

Edit: not sure how long you've been in the game jeremy, a new challenge isn't necessarily a bad thing...

for just about all my characters they have pvp and pve setups...hopefully you've taken the time to fill out some different skill lines...

re-gear, re-spec and have another go at it...try to look at it as a challenge...

Shardaxx

Just head up the right ladder into the zone you need and sneak your way to the crafting place.

VaranisArano

PVP zones have Battle Spirit active, which is the effect that is cutting your heals in half. This is true in Cyrodiil and true in the Imperial City, which is a PVP zone. As has been explained, the purpose of this is to make counterplay possible in player vs player combat.

Imperial City is designed to mingle PVP and PVE. While you are fighting a District Boss, another player can jump in the middle and gank you (happened to me, no sweat, I was trying to die to the Screeching Matron and doing better than expected). When you are fighting Xivkyn in the sewers, a small group of players can roll right over you. Or you can be the attacker, spotting a player distracted by a mob and hitting them while their back was turned for more Tel Var stones. In that sort of a mixed environment, there's no way for ZOS to say "Oh, you were healing from an NPC ability here, full heals" and "Ooooh, someone ganked you, half heal for that." The game doesn't calculate your heals based on the source of damage, it looks at your buffs and the debuffs on you and calculates your heals accordingly. So from a game design perspective, all or nothing makes sense

You also went up against a couple of the Imperial City equivalent of World Bosses. Those flag holding mobs are the Sewer bosses and yes, they are nasty in confined spaces. I tend to avoid or sneak around them carefully when I'm farming in the sewers. Nor do they have a leash mechanic the way other mobs do, or at least if they do its quite a long one. There are also smaller bosses for each of the conflict areas of the Sewers, indicated by crossed swords or a scrolling text that announces when you crossed over to a new area. I found these plenty challenging to solo but doable. Even the mobs that aren't special still have a lot of "mini-boss" types like Xivkyn or Daedroths with over 100k health. I'm not surprised that you found the Sewer Bosses to be a challenge - most players do, and they definitely wreck my face if I walk into one of them unawares. Soloing them is doable since some people will farm them for Tel Var, but its a serious challenge.

In conclusion, Imperial City is a combat-packed PVE and PVP zone that is chock full of mobs including lots of wandering world bosses designed to wreck the day of any player they find. Battle Spirit comes with the PVP territory. Personally, because of the amount of fighting against mobs I prefer to farm in the districts or the sewers on a DPS toon because its painfully slow on my healer/tank character.