how come PvP is a Most to do Pve if running Stam ?

Thefox

how come that to play Any Stam builds Vigor is a Most. probably becorse its a good healing for stam..
but why forced to pvp to get a working healing ability. yes this is now where all the comments about " use other builds " or what ever will come.

but why settle for a lesser or lower preforming ability, ? you dont use lower lvl gear if you can use something thats better..

so how come Pvp ability's are usable in the pve part and the only way to unlock it is ofc by joining pvp and go thrue the many hours of " you most to use this", sure it its own skill line. but its the only Stam heal, that has a heal and a strong one that too.

if I was using a magical build then I would ofc have magica ability's that would heal better. but I dont, I likd to use stam.

Just something that really have been pondering , and Rubd me the wrong way.

a almost 50% better heal is still better. Just sems odd that is the only stam heal that Just has to be lockd behind pvp.

and also now some will tell me ," oh it only takes afew hours to unlock" and the " back in my days it was 8mil Ap for a unlock" still I dont enjoy pvp, and I came here for the Pve and to enjoy the world.

and sens cash shop and micro transactions are a most of more or less any game to keep a game running now adays..
No instant unlock for crowns ? you might as well be milking it.

Voxicity

PvPers have to PvE one hell of a lot more to get undaunted mettle

Shad0wfire99

Because ZoS wants to make sure everyone sees the art they made for loading screens.

Valykc

*Sigh* there is one of these threads like every week. Vigor is easy to get, you don’t even need to PvP. Just go out and repair walls and doors for your faction. Or the best way I’ve found is just equip a Resto, join a Zerg, and heal for a few hours and you are golden. It’s pretty simple. Or snipe spam, people are going to hate me for saying it but it does do the job.

Why if I want to use Dawnbreaker for PvP do I have to level the fighters guild from doing PvE? It’s the same concept. If you don’t want to PvP for Vigor than use something else. Dual wield has 3 skills that heal: blood thrist, blood craze, and rend. Now even bow has a healing skill. 2H has Rally, the best Stam burst heal in the game. Classes having healing skills such as Stam Sorc has Crit surge, Dark deal, and passives. Nightblade has execute Health return, mark target, leeching strikes, siphoning. DKs have dragon blood, burning embers, stonefist, deep breath. Templars have A whole healing skill line. Wardens have a Stam class heal and healing skill line. So either PvP or use something else. I can clear Maelstrom with Crit surge only on my Stam Sorc. Just do what you have to do and be happy. You will accomplish something for yourself and probably learn in the process. I play mostly PvE and get messed up in PvP but PvP has taught me how to maintain my buffs and healing, and how to animation cancel abilities, among many other things. Just go PvP for a few hours, it’s really not as bad as you may think.

Here’s an analogy for the situation: it’s like you are complaining that you are hungry but are too lazy to cook the food in the fridge. To quote the amazing Shia, “JUST DO IT!”

dennissomb16_ESO

I do not see how it is a must have for any PvE stam build. Questing/running around the world is not heal intensive by any means and every class has enough healing options as a stam build (you can use magic abilities once in a while you know). If you are running as stam build in dungeons/raids then your healers should be keeping you up and your job is to DPS/tank/ dont stand in crap

Narvuntien

Just play PvP its really not that bad and you might find you like it. Plus It really doesn't take very long to get vigor/caltrops.

You just have to have a change of mindset.
Firstly throw on some inpenetrable gear preferably a set to help with sustain, as much of PVP comes down to a resource war. This can either be bought cheaply or crafted. You don't even need top quality gear even blue jewerly is fine, you want the set bonuses more than anything else.
DPS is irrelvent, its all about burst, and lineing up burst.
Repeat after me, dying is not bad, dying is not bad, dying is not bad. Dying for no reason is bad.

VaranisArano

Vigor is a PVP skill because whereas in PVE group content, stamina players can expect to have a healer with them at all times in PVP a stamina-based self-heal is absolutely necessary for stamina players who are often solo or without a dedicated healer. All that vaunted build diversity? Vigor is what makes stamina builds viable in PVP because they don't have to rely on a healer.

Vigor is also a skill that the PVE meta insists that stamina players have as a means of taking the pressure off of your healers. Outside of Maelstrom Arena, there is no content where Vigor is absolutely necessary the way it is in PVP.

Therefore Vigor is a PVP skill, where it belongs, and to get it you need to gain AP.

Advice for stamina players wanting Vigor (and Caltrops, another PVP-only skills because where else in the game do you need a skill designed for mounted enemies) quickly.
Equip a bow and find a group. Follow that group, picking off enemies from ranged as much as possible, tagging enemies so you get more credit for kills. Do as many of the Kill Enemy [player type] as you can and stick with the group (the zerg, sure) that's taking enemy keeps and resources.
For less hectic methods, repair keep walls and do PVE questing in Cyrodiil

Some people will tell you "oh, just equip a resto staff and heal the zerg." I tried that on my stam characters and it didin't work well. Fighting from range with a bow and zerg-surfing did.

Mettaricana

Valykc wrote: »

*Sigh* there is one of these threads like every week. Vigor is easy to get, you don’t even need to PvP. Just go out and repair walls and doors for your faction. Or the best way I’ve found is just equip a Resto, join a Zerg, and heal for a few hours and you are golden. It’s pretty simple. Or snipe spam, people are going to hate me for saying it but it does do the job.

Why if I want to use Dawnbreaker for PvP do I have to level the fighters guild from doing PvE? It’s the same concept. If you don’t want to PvP for Vigor than use something else. Dual wield has 3 skills that heal: blood thrist, blood craze, and rend. Now even bow has a healing skill. 2H has Rally, the best Stam burst heal in the game. Classes having healing skills such as Stam Sorc has Crit surge, Dark deal, and passives. Nightblade has execute Health return, mark target, leeching strikes, siphoning. DKs have dragon blood, burning embers, stonefist, deep breath. Templars have A whole healing skill line. Wardens have a Stam class heal and healing skill line. So either PvP or use something else. I can clear Maelstrom with Crit surge only on my Stam Sorc. Just do what you have to do and be happy. You will accomplish something for yourself and probably learn in the process. I play mostly PvE and get messed up in PvP but PvP has taught me how to maintain my buffs and healing, and how to animation cancel abilities, among many other things. Just go PvP for a few hours, it’s really not as bad as you may think.

Here’s an analogy for the situation: it’s like you are complaining that you are hungry but are too lazy to cook the food in the fridge. To quote the amazing Shia, “JUST DO IT!”

You say that but repairing walls nets about 60 ap need like 300k to get vigor and caltrops

kylewwefan

It also blows that tanks have to go even further to get %10 magic aids support passives. Healers need it too, but PvP is easy for healer.

On a good note though, the eye of storm nerf has weakened bombers enough they’re not wrecking the Zerg so bad anymore.

Cherryblossom

Thefox wrote: »

how come that to play Any Stam builds Vigor is a Most. probably becorse its a good healing for stam..
but why forced to pvp to get a working healing ability. yes this is now where all the comments about " use other builds " or what ever will come.

but why settle for a lesser or lower preforming ability, ? you dont use lower lvl gear if you can use something thats better..

so how come Pvp ability's are usable in the pve part and the only way to unlock it is ofc by joining pvp and go thrue the many hours of " you most to use this", sure it its own skill line. but its the only Stam heal, that has a heal and a strong one that too.

if I was using a magical build then I would ofc have magica ability's that would heal better. but I dont, I likd to use stam.

Just something that really have been pondering , and Rubd me the wrong way.

a almost 50% better heal is still better. Just sems odd that is the only stam heal that Just has to be lockd behind pvp.

and also now some will tell me ," oh it only takes afew hours to unlock" and the " back in my days it was 8mil Ap for a unlock" still I dont enjoy pvp, and I came here for the Pve and to enjoy the world.

and sens cash shop and micro transactions are a most of more or less any game to keep a game running now adays..
No instant unlock for crowns ? you might as well be milking it.

@Thefox
Why does a PVE'r need Vigor? I have Vigor but it's never on my bar if I'm in PVE it's just not necessary, if your in a dungeon you have a healer....

VaranisArano

Mettaricana wrote: »

You say that but repairing walls nets about 60 ap need like 300k to get vigor and caltrops

Repairing Walls does get you about 60 AP, and PVE questing will get you 200-300AP per quest. If you want to PVE your way to Vigor and Caltrops, it'll take you awhile.

On the other hand, if you PVP...
Completing the intro "How to Cyrodiil" quests = 2-3K AP, enough to unlock rapid manuvers
Capturing a resource, or being in the vicinity when a resource is captured = 1500 AP
Capturing a keep, or being in the vicinity when a keep is captured = 6000 AP
Kill Enemy [Player Type] quests = 2000 AP
I don't recall the exact amount you get from the other Scouting, Keep Capture, Resource Capture, or Scroll Quests, but I think its around 2K AP and less for the scouting.

Actually assisting in killing enemy players gets you a portion of the AP they were worth from the last time they were killed, so that ranges from 20 to a couple hundred AP per kill.

Healing friendly players will also get you a small portion of AP, not a huge amount but it helps, which is why Magicka players can easily equip a resto staff and spam healing springs on the zerg. That doesn't work all that well for stamina players, so I prefer to assist with kills for those builds.

So if you look at those numbers, it quickly becoming clear that the best way to make AP is to actually PVP, helping other players on your faction capture keeps and resources while assisting with as many kills as you can. With a fast horse and getting to the right fights, I can usually get about 75-100k AP over a couple hours of PVP as a healer. On my stamina toons with slower horses, I did several-hour-long sessions over a couple of days to get caltrops unlocked.

Bbsample197

you know you could always play on the pts if you hate to grind alot

kojou

Vigor is easy to get now. I remember the complaining when it required more AP to level the AvA skills than it does now, AP was much harder to come by, and vigor was at level 10. Now it takes less AP, AP rains from heaven in Cyrodiil, and they moved it to level 5. If you don't want to fight do daily town quests and repair walls and resource towers. It won't take long to get it.

Chantclaire

Another one of these threads....

Something about I need vigor and caltrops in PvE....something about PvP players must do PvE a lot more than PvE players must do PvP. #PvPIsntThatBad

kojou

iFord wrote: »

Another one of these threads....

Something about I need vigor and caltrops in PvE....something about PvP players must do PvE a lot more than PvE players must do PvP. #PvPIsntThatBad

On the contrary if you find a group with a good leader it can be really fun.

Apache_Kid

Try PvP once it gets fixed. You may end up actually enjoying it.

Betsararie

You can just stand in a keep and accumulate AP. You don't even have to move! You're really too lazy for that?

TequilaFire

OP joined Jan 2014 so he knows what's up.
Just another bait thread.

Ragnarock41

l got vigor on my stamden in literally one and a half hour yesterday.
I was in kyne, only level 19 with no real gear.
Now do you know how much suffering I got to finally get my hands on a maelstrom 2h back in the day?

Valykc

Mettaricana wrote: »

Valykc wrote: »

*Sigh* there is one of these threads like every week. Vigor is easy to get, you don’t even need to PvP. Just go out and repair walls and doors for your faction. Or the best way I’ve found is just equip a Resto, join a Zerg, and heal for a few hours and you are golden. It’s pretty simple. Or snipe spam, people are going to hate me for saying it but it does do the job.

Why if I want to use Dawnbreaker for PvP do I have to level the fighters guild from doing PvE? It’s the same concept. If you don’t want to PvP for Vigor than use something else. Dual wield has 3 skills that heal: blood thrist, blood craze, and rend. Now even bow has a healing skill. 2H has Rally, the best Stam burst heal in the game. Classes having healing skills such as Stam Sorc has Crit surge, Dark deal, and passives. Nightblade has execute Health return, mark target, leeching strikes, siphoning. DKs have dragon blood, burning embers, stonefist, deep breath. Templars have A whole healing skill line. Wardens have a Stam class heal and healing skill line. So either PvP or use something else. I can clear Maelstrom with Crit surge only on my Stam Sorc. Just do what you have to do and be happy. You will accomplish something for yourself and probably learn in the process. I play mostly PvE and get messed up in PvP but PvP has taught me how to maintain my buffs and healing, and how to animation cancel abilities, among many other things. Just go PvP for a few hours, it’s really not as bad as you may think.

Here’s an analogy for the situation: it’s like you are complaining that you are hungry but are too lazy to cook the food in the fridge. To quote the amazing Shia, “JUST DO IT!”

You say that but repairing walls nets about 60 ap need like 300k to get vigor and caltrops

Only said that cuz the OP said he didn’t want to PvP at all. It’s an option regardless.

Ch4mpTW

I agree with you, OP. I have to get Vigor on 2 more characters, and I’m just dreading it. I’ll hopefully get it done once things get cleaned up (regarding the load screens), but I’m really not looking forward to it.

Taleof2Cities

Why am I forced to level up my Undaunted to 9 in PvE dungeons ... so that I can PvP?

Izaki

Technically Vigor is much more of a PvP skil than a PvE skill.

As far as PvE content goes most of its is group content, which implies the fact that there's a healer in the group, which in turn implies that you don't need to have too many heals (having some sort of heal is still mandatory though). Solo overworld PvE content is such a cakewalk that you practically don't need heals either.

That and also the fact that stamina builds (and even magicka builds) weren't a thing when the game launched, but rather a result of the game changes where they removed soft caps. So yeah.

But frankly, Vigor is very easy to get. 2 hours of PvP (or just keep repairs and resource conquering) and you've got it.

Kay1

I think he's trying to communicate

BohnT

Why does this Sound like a certain khajiit DK?
@Derra

Dojohoda

It's not going to change so ... When you come to PVP for your vigor and caltrops, be sure to wear Impenetrable armor.

Icy_Waffles

Uh. It take one evening of playing to get. And I dont even use vigor on any builds outside of pvp. Waste of a skill for a dps.

Beardimus

It's healthy for players to need things outside of their comfort zone and experience the wider richness of the game.

Besides one evening and its locked, unlike undaunted which is a few weeks with a cool group etc.

SugaComa

You do know that for PvP players they have to play a *** ton of pve to level up and get gear worthy of playing PvP in, so seems like a fair cross trade

Zerok

Vigor unlocks at 88k AP.

If you know you're doing (even if you're bad), it takes 3 to 4 hours to get that much (i.e. one evening).

If you don't know what you're doing, it can take an eternity unless you join an organized group and follow them.

zaria

Why must healers run WGT to get bis gear.
Its unfair.
Obvious solution to all this problems is to buff Khajiit.