What am I doing wrong with my stamina nightblade?

Pospolity

Hello.
I've spent a lot of time and all my gold on collecting different beginner's sets but I'm still terrible DD. People often kick me out from dungeons. I'm doing fine on regular quests but I'd like to try different content (never done trials yet, useless on world bosses and veterans) and PvP too. I just like my Khajiit and would like to enjoy playing him.
300 CP, medium armor, at the moment 5x Hunding's, 5x Spriggan's, random Velidreths, daggers and bow. Tried alredy Night Mother's Gaze, Senche's, Bone Pirate's.
Could I ask you for an advice?



Greetings.
PS I'm sorry for my English.

altemriel

Pospolity wrote: »

Hello.
I've spent a lot of time and all my gold on collecting different beginner's sets but I'm still terrible DD. People often kick me out from dungeons. I'm doing fine on regular quests but I'd like to try different content (never done trials yet, useless on world bosses and veterans) and PvP too. I just like my Khajiit and would like to enjoy playing him.
300 CP, medium armor, at the moment 5x Hunding's, 5x Spriggan's, random Velidreths, daggers and bow. Tried alredy Night Mother's Gaze, Senche's, Bone Pirate's.
Could I ask you for an advice?



Greetings.
PS I'm sorry for my English.

maybe check this out, Alcast`s builds are very good:

his build for PVE:
https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-nightblade-build-for-pve/


and his build for PVP:
https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-nightblade-bow-gank-build-pvp/

Loc2262

First of all, your English is perfectly fine!

Your set choice is good too, your values look okay. Have you tested your DPS on a target dummy skeleton yet? What skills do you use in what rotation? I'm assuming that the issue is with your rotation parameters (skills, timing, weaving).

If you're on PC-EU, I can offer a tips+training session on a dummy. (I'm by no means a stamblade expert, but I manage my 32k on a skelly.)

Pospolity

Thank you for response.

@altemriel Alcast's PvE gear setup is similar to mine. PvP one is for bows, I'd like to be more mobile. It's not hard for players to get close to you, I believe.

@Loc2262 Iiii haaave-kinda, I run out of stamina fast and it takes ages to punch down that skeleton. Anyway, it was about 4-9k dps. Very low. I don't really have any rotation, I make sure to have my buffs/debuffs on (reletless focus, sometimes mirage, piercing mark, flying blade) and then I have spammable surprise attack/killer's blade, whirling blades + ambush, snipe and ulties. Dungeon monsters are like rocks to me.

Thank you for training offer, kind of you. I don't know if I'm ready to show my power to 32k-on-skully guy tho : p
PC EU, yes.

First of all, your English is perfectly fine!

Thanks, I'm never sure

altemriel

Pospolity wrote: »

Thank you for response.

@altemriel Alcast's PvE gear setup is similar to mine. PvP one is for bows, I'd like to be more mobile. It's not hard for players to get close to you, I believe.

@Loc2262 Iiii haaave-kinda, I run out of stamina fast and it takes ages to punch down that skeleton. Anyway, it was about 4-9k dps. Very low. I don't really have any rotation, I make sure to have my buffs/debuffs on (reletless focus, sometimes mirage, piercing mark, flying blade) and then I have spammable surprise attack/killer's blade, whirling blades + ambush, snipe and ulties. Dungeon monsters are like rocks to me.

Thank you for training offer, kind of you. I don't know if I'm ready to show my power to 32k-on-skully guy tho : p
PC EU, yes.

First of all, your English is perfectly fine!

Thanks, I'm never sure

that is good that your gear is similar to Alcast`s, that is a good start. Now focus on skills and the rotation, practice it, I would for sure accept the offer of @Loc2262, it is always good to connect with more experienced players if they are willing to help .
Then also, I recommend watching Alcast`s video about his build, in that link that I posted you (even if you would not follow it, it is good for explaining the mechanics), he is usually talking also about the "logic" of why he is using those particular skills (they usually support each other or buff each other).
Also the "right" enchants and the "right" traits of the gear and the "right" mundus stone is very good to use.

Then the next level is animation cancelling/weaving, which is a good thing to learn, it very much increases your dps.

For example these videos are good about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZYoEztDilE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLZzGoPp9Ug


This comment is explaing it a lot:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3457257/#Comment_3457257
also this one:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3376450/#Comment_3376450

Then it looks like this:

xRIVALENx

Sounds like you just need some practice on a rotation.

Dual Wield Bar

• Rending Slashes
• Surprise Attack
• Relentless Focus
• Steel Tornado
• Deadly Cloak
• Flawless Dawnbreaker

Bow Bar

• Poison Injection
• Endless Hail
• Rearming Trap
• Razor Caltrops
• Vigor
• Incapacitating Strike

A simple rotation such as this should get decent results while still being able to sustain using potions and Dubious Camoran Throne (preferably weapon power potions but practice without them first):

Endless Hail > Light Attack > Poison Injection > Light Attack > Rearming Trap > Light Attack > Razor Caltrops > Weapon Swap > Heavy Attack > Rending Slashes > Heavy Attack > Surprise Attack > Heavy Attack > Assassin's Scourge > Heavy Attack > Relentless Focus > Weapon Swap and Repeat.

Use Incapacitating Strike on your bow bar whenever it is available and you have the opportunity to weave it in.

Loc2262

@Pospolity : altemriel already posted you a good amount of video guides you can take a look at. Aside from that, no worries about the 32k thing. Don't make it your aim to reach that right away. For one, practice makes perfect, it's like learning to ride a bike or swim. Also, there's people that do like 45k on the skelly, and I myself look at them like WTF how do they do that.

For starters, the skills you listed are partly exactly the right ones, and partly unnecessary in a pure DD rotation. Relentless Focus is good, also keep up Siphoning Attacks to help with sustain. Especially as a Khajiit you run out of stamina fast otherwise. Camoran Throne is a good buff food for that. Do heavy attacks on your main bar too. As a dual wield stamina user, you have the advantage that heavy attacks with dual wield have a much shorter cast time than with any other weapon.

Surprise Attack is the correct spammable, interchangeable with Flying Blade (though SA is better for nightblades, you'd rather use FB on a stamsorc) and Killer's Blade is good for execute.

You don't need mirage, piercing mark or ambush. Also don't use Whirling Blades on single target, it uses a LOT of stamina. If you have adds in a boss fight, it should suffice to have them be in the area of your AOE DOTs so they get damaged alongside the boss.

The trick is to choose those DOT skills that do the most damage and run for roughly the same time. For nearly all stamina builds, you want a bow on your backbar and apply Poison Injection, Endless Hail and Rearming Trap (Beast Trap morph), and Razor Caltrops (Alliance War skill) if you have them and are not too low on stamina. For dual wield you usually want Deadly Cloak and Rending Slashes.

You apply the DOTs and then use your spammable until the DOTs run out. As a nightblade, you additionally have your spectral bow (the Relentless Focus proc that lets you shoot a bow after five light or heavy attacks) which you weave in between.

Also important is to insert light (or heavy) attacks after each skill. LAs and skills have separate cooldowns (well technically they're not really separate but share the same global cooldown, but for our intents and purposes you can consider them separate). Skills gave cooldown of roughly one second, but you can insert a LA between two skill uses without consuming the cooldown. Hence you can increase your damage output, and as a nightblade charge up that spectral bow while using skills to do the main damage. This is what they call "weaving".

You don't have to wait till the animation of an attack has fully played out. LAs and most skills have an instant "cast" time, which means any animation shown is just eye candy. You can perform an LA and a skill in rapid succession, basically as fast as you can press the buttons. The skill will abort and override the LA animation while the LA still counts as performed and does its damage. This is called "animation cancelling". Same applies to cancelling skill animations (some of them are very long) with the next skill, a LA, or swapping your weapon bar.

Gilvoth

and that is why this game is trash, because people animation cancel soo heavily and fast and even set it for macro that lagg
is created from it and many other problems.

Loc2262

You don't need macros for animation cancelling, also it's really not hard to do. Once you get the rhythm of "LA - skill - pause - LA - skill - pause" down, you do it in your sleep. Just get used to always doing a mouse click before the skill key press. It does not create any problem at all.

It's rather the other way round. If I had to wait for each and every skill animation to fully play out, considering they are tedious and very different in length, I wouldn't be playing this game.

Optimizing the rhythm and rotation (aside from gear) makes the difference between 10k and 40k DPS. But this is what the game is about, what do you expect from a fast-paced MMO like this? If you don't want that, a turn-based strategy game would be better for you.

vamp_emily

@Pospolity

If you want to try trials you can join our guild ( see signature ) it would be a good way to get some VO and TFS gear.

Also if you really want to get good, take a look at this link:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4644686#Comment_4644686

Pospolity

Wait, what LA was again?
I wanted to avoid pre made builds and make something what I could call "my own", doesn't work well unfortunately. Looks like every "good nightblade" uses same (almost) set of skills and gear. Thats too bad, but if that's necessary then I'm gonna have to try it. I will for sure and make an update here.
Trying weaving for some time already, I'm not sure if I'm doing it right way. Seems very hard and unpleasant to do.

You don't need mirage, piercing mark or ambush.

What about PvP?

You're all very helpful. Thank you very much for you time and patience.

altemriel

Pospolity wrote: »

Wait, what LA was again?
I wanted to avoid pre made builds and make something what I could call "my own", doesn't work well unfortunately. Looks like every "good nightblade" uses same (almost) set of skills and gear. Thats too bad, but if that's necessary then I'm gonna have to try it. I will for sure and make an update here.
Trying weaving for some time already, I'm not sure if I'm doing it right way. Seems very hard and unpleasant to do.

You don't need mirage, piercing mark or ambush.

What about PvP?

You're all very helpful. Thank you very much for you time and patience.

"LA" means "light attack", "HA" means heavy attack

yes, there are certain skills+gear setups, that are proven (by experienced players) to be "the best" in terms of the best survivability and best dps. but that does not imply, that people would not be able to create better setups in the future. but as a newbie, it is hard to create a really efficent build, simply because you need a lot of experience and a lot of knowledge of the game mechanics, to be able to do so. so it is always good to let yourself inspire by the experienced players and then when you get your own experience and knowledge, then you will be able to create better new builds.

weaving takes time to practice and to learn to do it well, after a time you will do it automatically. I am also only practicing it. And many times I forget to do it, when a fight is too crowded or too fast. . practice makes the master.

Bladerunner1

Have you ever tried spamming light attack / surprise attack over and over as quickly as possible? That should give you a feel for the global skill cooldown, and it's about 1/3 of your potential DPS.

Thunderknuckles

Posp, as a fellow stam NB your gear sounds just fine. You do, though, want to respec your attributes and put all of them into stamina. 0 in health and 0 in magicka. The rest is learning animation cancelling. Bad design, but they left it in anyway (I suppose because fixing it would be a titanic undertaking. No insult intended, ZoS).

Gulkrim-mur

Pospolity wrote: »

Hello.
I've spent a lot of time and all my gold on collecting different beginner's sets but I'm still terrible DD. People often kick me out from dungeons. I'm doing fine on regular quests but I'd like to try different content (never done trials yet, useless on world bosses and veterans) and PvP too. I just like my Khajiit and would like to enjoy playing him.
300 CP, medium armor, at the moment 5x Hunding's, 5x Spriggan's, random Velidreths, daggers and bow. Tried alredy Night Mother's Gaze, Senche's, Bone Pirate's.
Could I ask you for an advice?



Greetings.
PS I'm sorry for my English.

Your stats and gear is good especially since your running easier obtained gear vs trial loots like twice fang or w.e but id say this issue is currently for end game vet dungeons norm and vet trials people are looking for stamplar and stamsorc especially over a stamblade, their dps is just bettee with more options then thw stamblade.

In short its your class not your build.