How to be viable for PVP in this game?

Rulerkelso

Hello lads,
as title hints, my question is how to be able to kill something in PVP enviroment - Cyrodiil.
Im new to this game and started PVP just few days ago.
Whatever im trying i cannot do anything to enemy players. Seriously, i can two-shot any non-elite npc, but cannot even scratch players.... and im dead as soon as somebody look at me.
Few days ago i was dueling with a long-term PVP player and could-not scratch him even after he pulled off his equip, he only maintainded by his aura. Of course killed me in an eyewink after he spammed one ability few times. So it is not a low equip issue.

Im usualy going well in PVP at other games and never had any problems to get into competitive PVP, but in this game im utterly confused what Im doing wrong. I watched several "pro" videos and tried its builds (except those recommended sets which I does not have them yet). but none worked for me.
My character: Nightblade, bow+two hand/dual wield, 210 CP, attributes: 64stam, campaign VIVEC (champ) - can provide some more info if somebody will be serious to help me or give some advices

Maybe mine problem is that I does not have all champ. points available? Or is there something else required to be PVP viable?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for my crude english

Motherball

Sounds like a lack of experience and champ points. You can watch all the videos and theorycraft you want, but if you only barely know one build for one class, you are going to struggle mechanically. And higher cp give a huge advantage with the defensive capability alone.

Rickter

this is a broad question that deserves a broad answer. you bring up multiple deficiencies and to address them all would take some dedication.

I can say from the survival aspect start with the following:

a good amount of points in "Resistant" (red cp tree) and at least 5 pieces of impenetrable traited gear.

dmg is straight forward: build for dmg. Stam characters cant go wrong with Hundings as their base set (meaning the 5 pc) and magicka cant go wrong with Julianos or Kagrenac's (i think. screw magicka)

Loralai_907

I would take a look at different builds, see what you are doing versus what other people have found to be tried and true in PvP. That and just keep at it. I've only been doing PvP for a few months, and while I still die all over the place, I die a lot less frequently and get in way more kills than I did in the very beginning. And, until you get the hang of things, try to stay with the groups, don't wander around alone.

Mazbt

Practice fighting people. Don't just zerg surf/run in a blob. Try to learn to self sustain and do damage on your own in small skirmishes. Helps you become a better player with lots of practice. Try different builds out that suit your play style. Gold weapons.

visionality

@Rulerkelso
PVP is very different from PVE, so your abilitiy to two-shot non-elite NPCs is not saying anything in the world of PVP. One of the biggest differences in PVP-land is battlespirit, ofc (your damage is lower while your health is higher, shields are weaker etc etc). Experienced PVPers also invest more into health and resistance than they would in PVE-land, so you will meet tougher enemies who also have brains to counter your attacks.

Ofc you would be stronger with 690 cps than you are with 210, but its not the whole explanation for your problem. Its difficult to help you along without an in-depth-description of your build, but some general remarks.

- Stamblades are not very tough in PVP. Their best strategy is to attack single targets and vanish rapidly if the initial attack fails.

- 64 points in stam make you very squishy. I would guess that your health is somewhere between 18-22k and your magicka is around 10k (depending on your armor and your food/drink). Considering that most PVPers run around with 25k+ (except for sorcs who use shields), this puts you at a distinct disadvantage. Two hard hits and finishers like mages wrath already proc on you.

- 0 points in magicka also means that the standard NB defenses do not help you along very far. One cloak will eat up a third of your magicka. Same about mass hysteria. Shadow image is a bit less expensive, but not by much. So essentially, whenever you need to go defensive, your best option is to elude, dodge roll and block. Which will avoid some damage, but not get you away.

- In general, the most important advice in PVP-land for all players is "don't overextend". Do not solo-attack targets in the middle of a group. If you are not a tank, do not run ahead of a zerg (because all enemies will focus on you). Look around you - when everybody pulls back, you need to pull back too. Do not try to finish a kill at all costs. Dying and respawning is less fun than continuing a fight.

- If you want to stick to your current setup, your best option is to gank and run off when the initial gank fails (most ganks fail, btw, unless you are a ganking pro). If you want to join big fights (=zergs), you need to either go for more health or heavy armor or both.

Asardes

Try to use stealth and attack single enemies. That's the game play suited to stamina NB. 2H/Bow setup is good so stick to that. Ideally all your armor should be impenetrable. You should have a sustain set that gives you stamina recovery (ideally over 1.5K) and one that gives you damage. Good sustain sets are Eternal Hunt (crafted) and Bone Pirate's Tatters (dropped), good damage ones are Hunding's Rage (crafted), Spriggan's Thorns and Viper's Sting (dropped). Note that you cannot combo two full 5p crafted sets. You can also use 2p monster sets on top of those like Selene or Velidreth. Check those out.

VaranisArano

Doing damage to players in PVP is all about burst. The enemy players can heal/dodge/run away and react to you in ways that NPC AI can't, so the best way to do damage is to burst them down. Trying to deal the death of a thousand cuts is only effective in a larger group. Abilities that stun, CC, or fear can be really helpful because those force other players to react and break free instead of doing damage to you.

Now, doing damage and staying alive are two different things. While you are trying to focus on staying alive, I DO recommend running with a group or the proverbial zerg. Why? Because running with a large group is much more forgiving when you make mistakes, and making mistakes is an important part of learning. As long as you are paying attention, you'll learn valuable things about which skills work well in Cyrodiil, the ebb and flow of a open field battle or a siege, where you can find regular fights, and you'll get the AP you need for important skills like Vigor and Caltrops. There's plenty of learning and growth that can happen while running with a large group and what you learn there will help once you decide to start exploring small group or solo play, where making mistakes usually means instant death and a long ride.

Gear - Impenetrable trait gear will help with not getting insta-killed from crits. I'd also give yourself a decent amount of health even as a DPS.

Crewt

@Rulerkelso
1. Read this for introduction: https://darkelves.com.
2. Read this for group info: https://goo.gl/QTptCx.
3. Find a good guild that will help you learn.
4. Find a few good players who will help teach you how to play smaller groups and not depend on a zerg.

Anazasi

just get seventh legion and run through normal asylum till you get the 2 hander. That should fix all your problems.

Torbschka

Its defenitely not your CP, i switched from ps4 EU (800cp) to PC EU, because of performance etc and my PhD (needed faster PC).

I kick [snip] with 180cp right now

[Edited to remove profanity]

Publius_Scipio

You can be experienced but in ESO there is definitely a gap (probably large) between being experienced and being "competitive". You need the gear and if you are playing in a CP enabled environment you need your champ points total to be rather close or at the cap. It's really about having the right passives (CP is also considered passives) and how they complement your gear and skills rotation. Thats pretty much all it is on a very macro level.

You can take a "pro" ESO player, give him a not so optimized build and he/she won't look so pro in action I can guarantee you that. Players min/max and players find out what gear and skill is over performing and quite frankly use it more often than not. The nature of the beast.

VaranisArano

And you can also take a max CP non-pro player, give them an OP optimized build, and they will proceed to make that build look like trash even if they have some experience with PVP and how to use the build. I know, I've been that player. Experience with your build and the tactics it requires is the crucial factor.

Publius_Scipio

VaranisArano wrote: »

And you can also take a max CP non-pro player, give them an OP optimized build, and they will proceed to make that build look like trash even if they have some experience with PVP and how to use the build. I know, I've been that player. Experience with your build and the tactics it requires is the crucial factor.

Yeah you need experience with a build. But like I said, in ESO without the gear, min/maxing, CP, etc. the most pro of pro players will run out of resources or be squishy and not look so pro. In ESO there is always the eehhhh gear, and the 1% must have gear that the "pros" go farm somewhere. Evidence of this is probably ZOS changing maelstrom weapons recently. They are probably still worth it to farm, but the "must have" and overlooking every other option out there is lessened.

geonsocal

here's a weird one for you - try recording some of your fights, then watch and evaluate, adjust...

also, look over your death recaps to see what exactly is hitting you the hardest...

be patient, it's going to take a while to settle in some good gear/build choices for whatever complements your particular combat style...

Crewt

geonsocal wrote: »

look over your death recaps to see what exactly is hitting you the hardest...

4 people spamming crit rush, dizzying swing, dawnbreaker, and executioner. The story of my death...

geonsocal

Crewt wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

look over your death recaps to see what exactly is hitting you the hardest...

4 people spamming crit rush, dizzying swing, dawnbreaker, and executioner. The story of my death...

hmmmmmm, come to think of it - i mostly use the death recaps to see what offensive skills I may want to slot for myself...

Crewt

There's a tough line between playing the build that you know will win because.. it's stupid and easy, and playing one that is more fun and enjoyable though you probably won't win fight vs the people who pick the former.

IlCanis_LupuslI

visionality wrote: »

@Rulerkelso
PVP is very different from PVE, so your abilitiy to two-shot non-elite NPCs is not saying anything in the world of PVP. One of the biggest differences in PVP-land is battlespirit, ofc (your damage is lower while your health is higher, shields are weaker etc etc). Experienced PVPers also invest more into health and resistance than they would in PVE-land, so you will meet tougher enemies who also have brains to counter your attacks.

Ofc you would be stronger with 690 cps than you are with 210, but its not the whole explanation for your problem. Its difficult to help you along without an in-depth-description of your build, but some general remarks.

- Stamblades are not very tough in PVP. Their best strategy is to attack single targets and vanish rapidly if the initial attack fails.

- 64 points in stam make you very squishy. I would guess that your health is somewhere between 18-22k and your magicka is around 10k (depending on your armor and your food/drink). Considering that most PVPers run around with 25k+ (except for sorcs who use shields), this puts you at a distinct disadvantage. Two hard hits and finishers like mages wrath already proc on you.

- 0 points in magicka also means that the standard NB defenses do not help you along very far. One cloak will eat up a third of your magicka. Same about mass hysteria. Shadow image is a bit less expensive, but not by much. So essentially, whenever you need to go defensive, your best option is to elude, dodge roll and block. Which will avoid some damage, but not get you away.

- In general, the most important advice in PVP-land for all players is "don't overextend". Do not solo-attack targets in the middle of a group. If you are not a tank, do not run ahead of a zerg (because all enemies will focus on you). Look around you - when everybody pulls back, you need to pull back too. Do not try to finish a kill at all costs. Dying and respawning is less fun than continuing a fight.

- If you want to stick to your current setup, your best option is to gank and run off when the initial gank fails (most ganks fail, btw, unless you are a ganking pro). If you want to join big fights (=zergs), you need to either go for more health or heavy armor or both.

Fail??? I can tell you my success rate is about 85-90% i usually pick my targets well :-)

IlCanis_LupuslI

Crewt wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

look over your death recaps to see what exactly is hitting you the hardest...

4 people spamming crit rush, dizzying swing, dawnbreaker, and executioner. The story of my death...

Mass hysteria -> dodge roll->shadowy disguise->change course 90° left/right pop invisibility potion-->get the he'll outta there

CyrusArya

PvP has a steep learning curve. Like in most pursuits, the most valuable asset is knowledge. To succeed, you’re gonna have to develop a grasp on a few concepts. These include the function of various stats, how to build characters to achieve desired results, the nature and function of the various classes and skills (and how they interact with each other), resource management, etc. Don’t feel compelled to master it all over night...it takes time.

But even with all these concepts under your belt, ultimately performance comes down to execution. To that end, the only way to develop as a player is through practice. And the single best way to improve as a player is through dueling. 1v1 fights will help you master your own class, as well as give insight as to how it meshes with other classes in a controlled environment. The space next to the undaunted camp in Wayrest is a popular dueling location.

A_G_G_R_O

Begin solo and small scale play early on. You won’t get better in large groups as you will develop to become a max cp salty AP fodder zergling later on . I advise starting in Sotha, learning to sustain in non cp first makes you a monster in training wheel cp land later.