Should weapon selection be less limiting?

Furcula

Current weapon system restricts magicka users to mostly staves (resto, lighting, fire, ice) while stamina users have access to both 1h and 2h weapons and arguably, shield for tanking too. The restriction works in 2 ways:

1. Heavy attack from a staff will only restore magicka where as heavy attack from a 1h/bow will only restore stamina
2. Weapon skills are only limited to either magicka or stamina with weapon skill passives being a bit more general

This may very much be the original intent and design of the game but I do seem to see the game attempting to go for more "hybrid" builds with new sets providing both magicka and stamina/spell and weapon damage.

The first restriction can be lifted very easily, with the heavy attacks restoring your highest resource, similar to how shards and orbs work.

The second restriction will require a lot more balancing
It is very much likely that there is no way to implement diversity in the current system and new morphs will have to be introduced with a huge amount of balancing changes. One band aid change I could think of is to change some of the current morphs to magicka, similar to how class skills work.

Changing how game mechanics work with introduction of a new damage formula could make this easier (eg. damage = magicka + stamina) and allow hybrid builds to be competitive which in my opinion would be a good thing for the game. There are some other things where DW users have an advantage over 2h with their set bonuses etc but that's a whole other topic.

With all that said, I do think that stamina focused classes or magicka focused classes should get more out of from using skills from their respective weapon skill tree. However, I think it would be good change to see more diversity and weapon selection.

I've love to hear your thoughts on this.

TLDR: Allow magicka builds to get more out of using 1h/2h weapons and vice versa for stamina build with staves can be a healthy addition to the game, promoting diversity and less restrictive playstyles

Jade1986

I def would like to see your weapon / spell damage and resource return be based off your highest stat pool. So you could have stam using staves efficiently and vice versa. Or just add magicka melee weapons and stamina staves.

Mannix1958

Give us finger wigglers a wand....ooOOooo....or dual wands.....or wand & tome....

I know...ESO does not have wands

Furcula

Wand and shield would be an interesting addition to the game I think. They can rework ice staff as a more utility based where as wand and shield take over as a tanking option. Or more defensive option for dps (with less defensive option of course)

starkerealm

It would be interesting if we had some option that let us switch weapons from stamina to magicka and back. Like a spellsword set, that changed your melee weapons into magicka ones, with some bonus effects on their abilities.

Another idea would be a method to off hand a destruction or resto staff with a sword, and gain access to melee attacks, but also have (at least partial) access to the staff's abilities as well.

Furcula

starkerealm wrote: »

It would be interesting if we had some option that let us switch weapons from stamina to magicka and back. Like a spellsword set, that changed your melee weapons into magicka ones, with some bonus effects on their abilities.

Another idea would be a method to off hand a destruction or resto staff with a sword, and gain access to melee attacks, but also have (at least partial) access to the staff's abilities as well.

We need more Gandalf

Stovahkiin

I just want moar weapon types :c

Tandor

I think more options are always good except that with weapons, damage systems and skills they increase the balancing issues. It's really only the min-maxers and competitive players who worry about limiting the choice of weapons according to a magicka or stamina build, with no viability for hybrids, most players aren't affected by such considerations. My 170CP magicka templar does perfectly well with his sword and shield, for example. Yet if more options are offered, it will be those same min-maxers and competitive players who will scream the most about the resulting balancing issues!

So I'm all in favour of more weapon types and options generally, as long as nobody expects that to please everyone any more than the present setup does!

VaranisArano

The current system, while indeed limiting effective players to magicka = staves and stamina = weapons with a few exceptions, closely matches the Elder Scrolls games on which it builds in that characters who focus attributes into stamina are more effective at weapons and characters who focus attributes into magicka are more adept with spells.

Where it doesn't match previous Elder Scrolls is the ability to have more than 2-3 possible options for attacking at any given moment, so that one can both effectively wield a destruction staff and other spells at the same time without having to swap active spells. Similarly, where previous Elder Scrolls games limit weapons to the simple hack/slash/shoot activities of fighting, ESO allows you to actually attack with various styles apart from bashing and power attacking. So in this sense, ESO has actually enriched both magicka and stamina options, even though the ease of use of hybrids is diminished.

Strider__Roshin

Imagine if Rally was a fighters guild ability. Can you say RIP 2H? Lol

Recremen

My biggest concern at this point is aesthetics. The underlying systems seem to be in a pretty good place (having different weapons for stamina/magicka recover, having different options to boost crit/damage/penetration/whatever), but having them be tied to a particular kind of weapon limits your ability to play to your aesthetic while still being end-game competitive. Like I really doubt people wanted to be shoe-horned into choosing lightning staves for AoE damage and fire staves for single-target damage. You'd think most people who like the fire aesthetic would be all over that AoE playstyle.

What affects me personally, however, is how you have to chase different melee weapon types depending on how the end-game meta changes because the bonuses are tied to weapon type. Oh, it's maces now. Wait no it's an axe main bar and daggers on dual-wield bar. Okay now it's daggers all the way. But my character mostly wants swords from a pure aesthetic point of view. :-( Honestly it should just be like, a toggle you set next to the weapon icons on your inventory sheet. Let people use the weapons they like the look of and choose the associated bonuses as they see fit.

Kanar

Recremen wrote: »

My biggest concern at this point is aesthetics. The underlying systems seem to be in a pretty good place (having different weapons for stamina/magicka recover, having different options to boost crit/damage/penetration/whatever), but having them be tied to a particular kind of weapon limits your ability to play to your aesthetic while still being end-game competitive. Like I really doubt people wanted to be shoe-horned into choosing lightning staves for AoE damage and fire staves for single-target damage. You'd think most people who like the fire aesthetic would be all over that AoE playstyle.

What affects me personally, however, is how you have to chase different melee weapon types depending on how the end-game meta changes because the bonuses are tied to weapon type. Oh, it's maces now. Wait no it's an axe main bar and daggers on dual-wield bar. Okay now it's daggers all the way. But my character mostly wants swords from a pure aesthetic point of view. :-( Honestly it should just be like, a toggle you set next to the weapon icons on your inventory sheet. Let people use the weapons they like the look of and choose the associated bonuses as they see fit.

No thanks, weapons as meaningless skins would be so boring. I feel the same way about skills, I don't want the same skill for both stamina/magicka because then it just comes down to whether you like blue or green more. Boring!

But I would like to see more unique stamina morphs of class skills, and a new magicka DW weapon line like wand/rune/book/focus (choose two, like stam DW has dagger/sword/axe/mace).

tizodd

Maybe I missed it, but I haven't noticed any mention of set bonuses...that's my biggest issue with the current weapon system. Dual-wield and sword-and-board have two extra slots for gear set bonuses.

I'd love if two-handed weapons, bows, and staves counted as two pieces of a set to balance it out.

ereboz

I would like to see at least 1 new weapon, plus a complete overhaul. Considering they never intended on weaving to be a thing, their system is obviously flawed.

RPGplayer13579

I want a Spear Skills and an One-Handed and Magic Skills option.

Runefang

This is actually one of the best ideas I've heard on the forums.

Most (all?) class skills are magicka based with a few having stamina morphs. So it'd be great to see something similar with the stamina weapon lines have a few magicka based morphs and the staves have a few stamina based morphs. There are already plenty of useless morphs out there that could be re-worked.

Ultimately every build ends up homogeneous anyway since people will just copy the BiS builds they see online but it'd still be nice to see more interesting possibilities.

Recremen

Kanar wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

My biggest concern at this point is aesthetics. The underlying systems seem to be in a pretty good place (having different weapons for stamina/magicka recover, having different options to boost crit/damage/penetration/whatever), but having them be tied to a particular kind of weapon limits your ability to play to your aesthetic while still being end-game competitive. Like I really doubt people wanted to be shoe-horned into choosing lightning staves for AoE damage and fire staves for single-target damage. You'd think most people who like the fire aesthetic would be all over that AoE playstyle.

What affects me personally, however, is how you have to chase different melee weapon types depending on how the end-game meta changes because the bonuses are tied to weapon type. Oh, it's maces now. Wait no it's an axe main bar and daggers on dual-wield bar. Okay now it's daggers all the way. But my character mostly wants swords from a pure aesthetic point of view. :-( Honestly it should just be like, a toggle you set next to the weapon icons on your inventory sheet. Let people use the weapons they like the look of and choose the associated bonuses as they see fit.

No thanks, weapons as meaningless skins would be so boring. I feel the same way about skills, I don't want the same skill for both stamina/magicka because then it just comes down to whether you like blue or green more. Boring!

But I would like to see more unique stamina morphs of class skills, and a new magicka DW weapon line like wand/rune/book/focus (choose two, like stam DW has dagger/sword/axe/mace).

@Kanar

Most differences between weapons are already literally meaningless skins. You might as well be asking to make motifs change a weapon's stats. Maybe having options is boring to you (somehow??) but most of us would rather get our characters to look a certain way without sacrificing stats. I mean this isn't even comparable to skill differences, we are talking about a choice between things that operate in literally the exact same ways except for passive stat boosts. Whirlwind does not take on different functionality depending on if you're wielding axes or maces, it just takes on a unique sound profile when you hit someone and your weapons look different. The reason this change would be good is specifically because it's low-hanging fruit in terms of impact on players' existing builds, while opening up a new avenue to make a lot of players extremely happy and let their characters look the way they'd originally envisioned.

See, here's where I could throw your argument back on you and say that having new options for magicka is boring because being forced to choose from a limited arbitrary set of things is "fun", but I won't because it's a bad argument. Having some kind of magicka DW weapon line would actually be kind of cool (even though I know most people just want it for that sweet sweet set bonus).

Alaztor91

I always found it annoying that classes like templar,dk and also nightblade that have a melee magicka class spammable don't have a melee magicka weapon to pair it with, also the low amount of class stam morphs.

And 2 handed weapons not counting as 2 set pieces, why is this still a thing?

lucky_Sage

i just think bow should be fixed and add a magick melee weapon skill line and at polearms
then some world skill lines like dragon shouts, dwarven engineering ,and necromancer

Mettaricana

I want all intended hybrid sets to gain a 5pc bonus of: heavy attacks now restore both magicka and stamina. Since they hybrid sets kinda suck on offerings that would be a game changer

notimetocare

New options simply means:
a) New item is added but sucks and nobody bothers to use it
b) New item is added and is OP, old items are never used

TheShadowScout

Furcula wrote: »

1. Heavy attack from a staff will only restore magicka where as heavy attack from a 1h/bow will only restore stamina
2. Weapon skills are only limited to either magicka or stamina with weapon skill passives being a bit more general

...those are fine.

I mean, weapons powered by muscle -should- be stamina based. Weapons powered by magic -should- be magica based.

It would make no sense at all to change that. To make "magica morphs" for muscle power weapons. To have stamina morphs for wizard staves.

...

That being said...

...I really want a weapon skill line for hybrid play! Something like the "One Handed & Magic" idea I kept tossing around at times: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371862/additional-weapon-skill-ideas-mk-ii
With a stamina melee weapon in one hand, and a magic wand/rune in the other, that mixed setup wouldf support heavy attack revovery splitting into both stamina dn magica, as well as some skills being half-half... and finally give hybrid build spellsword characters an option to have both in one go!

EvilAutoTech

Why are staves two handed weapons? The only time you put your off hand on it is to block. If it was one handed you could use a shield and block with that or if you used two weapons, you could block like when dual wielding.

Mettaricana

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

Why are staves two handed weapons? The only time you put your off hand on it is to block. If it was one handed you could use a shield and block with that or if you used two weapons, you could block like when dual wielding.

Makes too much sense for zos to comprehend

SirMewser

One hand and rune please.
I want a spellknight sort of playstyle, sword with magic is how I played all my TES games, I don't understand why it doesn't exist in this one.

Stovahkiin

RPGplayer13579 wrote: »

I want a Spear Skills and an One-Handed and Magic Skills option.

^^^^^^ !!!!!!