End-Game PvE Warden Main Tank Build by Liofa

JLieu

Ha. That makes perfect sense now. Exactly the answer I was looking for. Thank you @Liofa

Mezzanine

Hi @Liofa , love your guide, really changed the way I play Warden as a tank!

I was just wondering with the upcoming block changes in the Dragon Bones DLC would it still be optimal to run Sturdy trait on all your gear pieces? Or would it be more efficient to swap to Infused on the big pieces for a little more resources?

Also regarding Blockade, my gut tells me keeping Lightning staff would still be best as a source of off-balance even after the changes, there doesn't really seem to be an alternative weapon setup to use that could help debuff enemies.

Was thinking an alternative could be Resto staff to apply like combat prayer or something but it feels redundant if the healer is good.

What changes (if any) will you be making for the upcoming patch?

Liofa

Mezzanine wrote: »

Hi @Liofa , love your guide, really changed the way I play Warden as a tank!

I was just wondering with the upcoming block changes in the Dragon Bones DLC would it still be optimal to run Sturdy trait on all your gear pieces? Or would it be more efficient to swap to Infused on the big pieces for a little more resources?

Also regarding Blockade, my gut tells me keeping Lightning staff would still be best as a source of off-balance even after the changes, there doesn't really seem to be an alternative weapon setup to use that could help debuff enemies.

Was thinking an alternative could be Resto staff to apply like combat prayer or something but it feels redundant if the healer is good.

What changes (if any) will you be making for the upcoming patch?

Hello @Mezzanine !

Sturdy is even more valuable in Dragon Bones . Max resources don't mean more sustain while tanking , so definitely keep them .

I will continue to use Blockade but probably will be changing to Ice Staff . Off Balance can be applied with only one Blockade from whatever DD or healer . I rather get some tankiness .

I already tried that , yes , it is strong but as you said , a good healer will cover it already . Also it is really hard to sustain on this build since it is really expensive and need to cast it twice in a row because it applies to 6 people in one cast . It works much better on a Equilibrium DK .

About changes , I honestly don't want to say anything yet . Next patch , DK Tanks will be overpowered since how strong Engulfing Flames is . In PTS , DK has literally everything perfect . Extremely tanky , unlimited sustain , best offensive buffs etc. I will wait until PTS is over . In the live server , DK and Warden are not really different but next patch will be a lot different . The gap is huge between DK and any other class . DK simply outperforms every class in every way . If it goes to live like that , I'll just update my DK tank and leave this one be . I rather not publish a weaker build while I can do a better one so ... I really hope ZOS will do some changes so Warden can stay competitive as a tank . Only then I can update this build .

aeowulf

Liofa wrote: »

I really hope ZOS will do some changes so Warden can stay competitive as a tank .

I really hope they update NB, sorc and templar tanks so they become competitive, let alone staying competitive!

Giraffon

Oh now I'm excited! My DK tank hasn't been OP for a long, long time!

Mezzanine

Liofa wrote: »

Mezzanine wrote: »

Hi @Liofa , love your guide, really changed the way I play Warden as a tank!

I was just wondering with the upcoming block changes in the Dragon Bones DLC would it still be optimal to run Sturdy trait on all your gear pieces? Or would it be more efficient to swap to Infused on the big pieces for a little more resources?

Also regarding Blockade, my gut tells me keeping Lightning staff would still be best as a source of off-balance even after the changes, there doesn't really seem to be an alternative weapon setup to use that could help debuff enemies.

Was thinking an alternative could be Resto staff to apply like combat prayer or something but it feels redundant if the healer is good.

What changes (if any) will you be making for the upcoming patch?

Hello @Mezzanine !

Sturdy is even more valuable in Dragon Bones . Max resources don't mean more sustain while tanking , so definitely keep them .

I will continue to use Blockade but probably will be changing to Ice Staff . Off Balance can be applied with only one Blockade from whatever DD or healer . I rather get some tankiness .

I already tried that , yes , it is strong but as you said , a good healer will cover it already . Also it is really hard to sustain on this build since it is really expensive and need to cast it twice in a row because it applies to 6 people in one cast . It works much better on a Equilibrium DK .

About changes , I honestly don't want to say anything yet . Next patch , DK Tanks will be overpowered since how strong Engulfing Flames is . In PTS , DK has literally everything perfect . Extremely tanky , unlimited sustain , best offensive buffs etc. I will wait until PTS is over . In the live server , DK and Warden are not really different but next patch will be a lot different . The gap is huge between DK and any other class . DK simply outperforms every class in every way . If it goes to live like that , I'll just update my DK tank and leave this one be . I rather not publish a weaker build while I can do a better one so ... I really hope ZOS will do some changes so Warden can stay competitive as a tank . Only then I can update this build .

That's really depressing to hear, I've been enjoying my Warden Tank so much, I feel like I can debuff for the group and sustain so easily on her vs the DK playstyle. Hopefully those PTS changes won't 100% go through to live but it kinda already feels like Wardens will take the backseat from what you've said.

Will keep any eye on this thread and hope for good news lol, thank you again for your insight into the current state of Warden tanks!

marcjames

As I reached the 160cp cap (now as 280cp) I looked for a baseline to start a tank build, and this thread started by @Liofa became my initial target/benchmark.

I modified the quote below to list the skills I have in front / back bar.
Trying to now make this my own build I started to look for options to make small changes from this baseline.

Before we get to that, gear wise I have Ebon + livewire. Livewire was purchasable and seemed to offer a quick way to get full purple gear. Monster set: Nerien'eth but building up multiple for different situations.

Roughly followed the CP distribution but likely going to respec later.

Sitting at 42.5K health

Liofa wrote: »

SKILLS

Front Bar :

1- Pierce Armor : Main taunt skill .
2- Heroic Slash : Grants Minor Heroism and applies Minor Maim .
3- Leeching Vines : Applies Minor Lifesteal and our main source of sustain . Procs Nature's Gift passive but only if you heal your allies , doesn't work with self-healing .
4- Bull Netch : One of our ways to sustain Stamina and regain Ultimate with the Savage Beast passive .
5- Gripping Shards : If you need an AOE root .

Ultimate : Aggressive Horn : Hands down the best ultimate to use as a tank .

Back Bar :

1- Deceptive Predator : 14 seconds of Major Expedition and procs Flourish passive .
2- Inner Rage : Ranged taunt .
3- Ice Fortress : Use this until Expansive Frost Cloak is fixed .
4- Elemental Blockade : Gets higher uptime our enchants and contributes to Off-Balance uptime .
5- Shimmering Shield : Insane shielding against projectiles and grants Major Heroism .

Ultimate : Permafrost : AOE Major Protection for your group . Very useful in dangerous trash pulls or any kind of tricky situation .

Liofa

There is a changes I would like @Liofa and others to comment on these if possible:

Lightening staff vs Frost staff. Pro for lightening is livewire concusses and elemental blockade sets concussed mobs off balance. Pro for Frost taunt built in to heavy attacks potentially freeing up Inner Rage slot for Frozen Device or (other suggestion). I am looking for a reason not to switch to Frost but following lightening as per @Liofa suggestion.

Another question is the medium monster set vs using a heavy monster set. Seems like there is passives that will increase in you have mixed armor types.

Liofa

@marcjames

Hello ! I recommend not using Frost Staff for taunts . Even if you have a frost staff , do not use its heavy attack for taunting . It's incredibly slow .

You can keep the heavy setup . Heavy always offers more protection but medium will offer bit more stamina sustain . It's almost the same , use whatever you want . Yes , you will have more max stats if you use different armor types but that doesn't matter for tanks . Max Stamina or Magicka doesn't increase your sustain . It just allows you to spam skill more in a row if needed . In theory , you can sustain with both pools 10k but it will be much harder in harder fights due to things you will be doing to execute mechanics .

marcjames

@Liofa Thanks for the feedback.

Your setup has helped me jump start my toon. Always looking to make improvements but so far quite happy with my skills. It allows for efficient backbar led trash pulls and back bar led range tanking if required, then with physical damage bosses and trash, front bar is solid for dmg mitigation.

I have been running vet pledges without issue thus far.

If there was one adjustment to my front/back bar what change would you suggestion? or as you laid it out it is mostly situational depending on the fight going in. I would like to experiment with Frozen Gate but not sure which skill to drop.

Liofa

marcjames wrote: »

@Liofa Thanks for the feedback.

Your setup has helped me jump start my toon. Always looking to make improvements but so far quite happy with my skills. It allows for efficient backbar led trash pulls and back bar led range tanking if required, then with physical damage bosses and trash, front bar is solid for dmg mitigation.

I have been running vet pledges without issue thus far.

If there was one adjustment to my front/back bar what change would you suggestion? or as you laid it out it is mostly situational depending on the fight going in. I would like to experiment with Frozen Gate but not sure which skill to drop.

@marcjames

You should use different skills for different fights . For example , if there are a lot of projectiles you can absorb , nothing beats Shimmering Shield . You also could use Stalwart Guard if you don't need those flex spots . Speed buff is good sometimes for the team . Just play around , do what you think works best . Maybe throw some Vigors here and there , your choice

anticlergy

@Liofa Sorry to bother you here, but I figured it is a good a place as any other. I am curious as to why a bunch of videos I am seeing have DK tanks not running hardened armor. Is it not good?

I know this thread is about Warden, but I figured I'd ask anyhow.

Thanks

AverageJo3Gam3r

@anticlergy they're running balance instead.

Liofa

anticlergy wrote: »

@Liofa Sorry to bother you here, but I figured it is a good a place as any other. I am curious as to why a bunch of videos I am seeing have DK tanks not running hardened armor. Is it not good?

I know this thread is about Warden, but I figured I'd ask anyhow.

Thanks

@anticlergy

Because running Balance is superior and gives the same buff . Magicka Recovery tanks had their peak when orbs gave Magicka to everyone . That's why they didn't need Balance and obviously this was before Morrowind where everyone had infinite sustain . Orb giving resources to only one person changed a lot for Magicka Recovery tanks . Now they do not get Magicka from it as most tanks are running higher Max Stamina than Max Magicka . They are still decent but why spend Magicka to get a buff while you can do it while gaining Magicka ^^ Balance morph is obviously superior to the other one as it gives you the Resistance buffs , saving up a skill slot . Also you need to give up stats to make Magicka Recovery tanks viable , like running Atronach Mundus instead of Lord , giving up your monster set for 1 Choketorn/1 Shadowrend combo etc. You can play a Magicka Recovery tank without doing these things but Magicka sustain will be really bad . I have a lot of experience in Equilibrium usage if not most as I am the creator of Equilibrium tanking and I can easily say if you know mechanics of a fight and trust your healer , Equilibrium is superior . Every end-game tank that carries the highest scores in leaderboards are running Equilibrium for a reason . It also depends on playstyle to be honest . Do you want to spend your Health for Magicka , or do you want to spend your time for Magicka ? That's all it comes down to . As timing is crucial for tanking , I think the answer is obvious . You might wonder where will you get the Burning Heart passive . We get it from Green Dragon Blood , giving us another 8% with Minor Vitality , resulting in 20% Healing Taken .

About Warden , they do not depend on Magicka to sustain their Stamina , that's why running Equilibrium on a Warden tank is not as effective as running it on a DK .

anticlergy

Liofa wrote: »

anticlergy wrote: »

@Liofa Sorry to bother you here, but I figured it is a good a place as any other. I am curious as to why a bunch of videos I am seeing have DK tanks not running hardened armor. Is it not good?

I know this thread is about Warden, but I figured I'd ask anyhow.

Thanks

@anticlergy

Because running Balance is superior and gives the same buff . Magicka Recovery tanks had their peak when orbs gave Magicka to everyone . That's why they didn't need Balance and obviously this was before Morrowind where everyone had infinite sustain . Orb giving resources to only one person changed a lot for Magicka Recovery tanks . Now they do not get Magicka from it as most tanks are running higher Max Stamina than Max Magicka . They are still decent but why spend Magicka to get a buff while you can do it while gaining Magicka ^^ Balance morph is obviously superior to the other one as it gives you the Resistance buffs , saving up a skill slot . Also you need to give up stats to make Magicka Recovery tanks viable , like running Atronach Mundus instead of Lord , giving up your monster set for 1 Choketorn/1 Shadowrend combo etc. You can play a Magicka Recovery tank without doing these things but Magicka sustain will be really bad . I have a lot of experience in Equilibrium usage if not most as I am the creator of Equilibrium tanking and I can easily say if you know mechanics of a fight and trust your healer , Equilibrium is superior . Every end-game tank that carries the highest scores in leaderboards are running Equilibrium for a reason . It also depends on playstyle to be honest . Do you want to spend your Health for Magicka , or do you want to spend your time for Magicka ? That's all it comes down to . As timing is crucial for tanking , I think the answer is obvious . You might wonder where will you get the Burning Heart passive . We get it from Green Dragon Blood , giving us another 8% with Minor Vitality , resulting in 20% Healing Taken .

About Warden , they do not depend on Magicka to sustain their Stamina , that's why running Equilibrium on a Warden tank is not as effective as running it on a DK .

Thank you very much for your detailed response. It makes complete sense now. I really appreciate it.

Finally, do you have a link to your build and gear for reference? I would appreciate that as well.

Liofa

anticlergy wrote: »

Thank you very much for your detailed response. It makes complete sense now. I really appreciate it.

Finally, do you have a link to your build and gear for reference? I would appreciate that as well.

@anticlergy

No problem I'll release my DK tank build after Dragon Bones goes live . It won't be instant obviously . I will have to take it to every trial that is challenging for tanks (especially vHoF) and test how it works out , only then I can publish it . It will take some time to have it where I want , so don't expect it to be out as soon as patch hits live server ^^ Might be a week or 2 weeks , more or less

anticlergy

Liofa wrote: »

anticlergy wrote: »

Thank you very much for your detailed response. It makes complete sense now. I really appreciate it.

Finally, do you have a link to your build and gear for reference? I would appreciate that as well.

@anticlergy

No problem I'll release my DK tank build after Dragon Bones goes live . It won't be instant obviously . I will have to take it to every trial that is challenging for tanks (especially vHoF) and test how it works out , only then I can publish it . It will take some time to have it where I want , so don't expect it to be out as soon as patch hits live server ^^ Might be a week or 2 weeks , more or less

Sounds good. I'll be looking forward to it.

Funkopotamus

S0ooooo basically another class is able to run HMtrials effectively and Wrobel is going to swoop in and make DKs 0P AGAIN next patch?

Sounds about right.....


I swear these decisions ZOS are nothing short of cancer to this player base! I mean HOW DARE another class tank in this game!

Arobain

interesting, i dont see any of the normal elitists that say warden is the "hell bent shittiest class that cant do anything" here

HHHHHHMMMMM

Lynx7386

Funkopotamus wrote: »

S0ooooo basically another class is able to run HMtrials effectively and Wrobel is going to swoop in and make DKs 0P AGAIN next patch?

Sounds about right.....


I swear these decisions ZOS are nothing short of cancer to this player base! I mean HOW DARE another class tank in this game!

pretty much, wrobel needs to get gone, he's the bane of this game's balance issues IMO.

marcjames

@Liofa one change I thought might make sense is for boss fights switch to

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Shadowrend+Set

(2 items) When you take damage, you have a 15% chance to summon a shadowy Clanfear for 15 seconds. The Clanfear's basic attack deals 3440 Magic Damage and apply Minor Maim to any enemy hit for 10 seconds, reducing their damage done by 15%. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

Then drop: Heroic Slash which also applies minor maim.
Replacing this with Bone Shield to provide synergy to ally and damage shield to self.

1) Is dropping heroic slash and rely on monster set procs a none starter?
2) if this dropping of heroic slash makes sense, would you recommend another skill in place of bone shield (or its morphs)?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

marcjames wrote: »

@Liofa one change I thought might make sense is for boss fights switch to

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Shadowrend+Set

(2 items) When you take damage, you have a 15% chance to summon a shadowy Clanfear for 15 seconds. The Clanfear's basic attack deals 3440 Magic Damage and apply Minor Maim to any enemy hit for 10 seconds, reducing their damage done by 15%. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

Then drop: Heroic Slash which also applies minor maim.
Replacing this with Bone Shield to provide synergy to ally and damage shield to self.

1) Is dropping heroic slash and rely on monster set procs a none starter?
2) if this dropping of heroic slash makes sense, would you recommend another skill in place of bone shield (or its morphs)?

you don't run slash for maim, you run it for the minor heroism, the extra 1.5 ulti a sec. i mean you do run slash for maim, because a debuff as important as 15% damage reduction can't be relied on a proc set, so yes a non starter.

Lynx7386

yea, slash is used for the ultimate gain more than the maim. FYI though, with frost blockade (from back bar), gripping shards, and arctic blast all going, you can keep a relatively consistent uptime on maim via the chilled status effect, which doesnt require an extra ability slotted or a monster set.

Liofa

marcjames wrote: »

@Liofa one change I thought might make sense is for boss fights switch to

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Shadowrend+Set

(2 items) When you take damage, you have a 15% chance to summon a shadowy Clanfear for 15 seconds. The Clanfear's basic attack deals 3440 Magic Damage and apply Minor Maim to any enemy hit for 10 seconds, reducing their damage done by 15%. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

Then drop: Heroic Slash which also applies minor maim.
Replacing this with Bone Shield to provide synergy to ally and damage shield to self.

1) Is dropping heroic slash and rely on monster set procs a none starter?
2) if this dropping of heroic slash makes sense, would you recommend another skill in place of bone shield (or its morphs)?

@marcjames

Never drop Heroic Slash and never use a monster set that doesn't support group . To be more exact , don't use anything that doesn't support group .

max_only

What’s a good crafted set to use while farming these?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

max_only wrote: »

What’s a good crafted set to use while farming these?

Torugs pact.

Liofa

max_only wrote: »

What’s a good crafted set to use while farming these?

You can farm both in normal mode except Monster. Go naked, doesn't matter in normal anyway ^^ For the monster set, you can use 2 piece something crafted that gives health.

max_only

Another question. I guess a stam Warden tank is too weird? Oh maybe not good for the mechanics in trials (I hear there’s a lot of roll dodging) but otherwise good?

Liofa

max_only wrote: »

Another question. I guess a stam Warden tank is too weird? Oh maybe not good for the mechanics in trials (I hear there’s a lot of roll dodging) but otherwise good?

There is no such thing as Stamina or Magicka Tank anymore. You just stack as much stats as you can, all of them. The reason is, as your job is not dealing damage or healing, there is no point in stacking Magicka or Stamina. We just try to increase every stat so we can use skills back to back without running out and having to wait in between. For example, I stack a lot of Max Magicka so I can spam my Magicka skills a lot of times before I run out. Stamina is high as well because I want to sprint, dodge, break free and taunt as many thing as I want before running out. Also let's me restore Stamina from Shards and Orbs.

My point is, you can tank anything with everything invested in Health and 10k Stamina and 10k Magicka. It is definitely possible but much harder. There will be a difference in gameplay when your Heroic Slash takes 1/3 of your Stamina pool compared to 1/8.

HeroOfSovngarde

@Liofa I’m a little late to this, but I had a question. With Ebon/Torug/Lord Warden at CP 631, I’m sitting at 34.4k health, 18k mag (with winter ulti), and 16.3k stam. This is Argonian with no attributes committed. Would you still recommend putting all into health? Thanks

Liofa

HeroOfSovngarde wrote: »

I’m a little late to this, but I had a question. With Ebon/Torug/Lord Warden at CP 631, I’m sitting at 34.4k health, 18k mag (with winter ulti), and 16.3k stam. This is Argonian with no attributes committed. Would you still recommend putting all into health? Thanks

Hello! First of all, you shouldn't use Torug's due to a bug with how enchantments work. I can explain in detail later as I am currently in a raid.

For your question, as an Argonian your Max Magicka will be higher than your Max Stamina. To prevent this, you need to spend 7 points into Stamina and rest into Health. When you have the same items I do, your stats will be 43-44k Health and 19k of each resource, Stamina being little higher than Magicka.

While 34.4k is already enough to tank pretty much all the content, more Health is always welcome. There are reasons not to invest the rest into Stamina and/or Magicka. First is your scaling with Health. You have a lot more bonuses to Health unlike Stamina and Magicka, which makes you benefit more from investing in Health. Second is, your purpose as a tank is not dealing damage or healing. Increasing your Magicka and Stamina increases your damage and healing potential which are things you don't need as a tank. More importantly, the skills you have scaling and the ones you care about are Health ones like Shimmering Shield. If you have a skill slot open, you can also slot Polar Wind which is another Health scaling heal. Third reason is being able to survive big hits. Having more Max Health helps you survive mistakes and gives overall tankiness.

We only use food, enchants and jewelry trait to boost our stats and nothing else to increase our overall Magicka and Stamina. The only reason is to not run out of resources when we spam a skill, or be able to spam more before running out in order words.

Hope this answers your question ^^