Mag/stam sorc changes for clockwork city

Lord_Invel

I really enjoy the rune defense and rune cage change its really quite nice having it stun for 2.5 seconds. However I would like to propose bringing back the crystal frags stun in exchange for lowering the proc chance to like 15 or 20 percent proc chance, and make crystal blast a stam morph version of crystal frags for stam sorc.

Also I would like to remove the curse echo from haunting curse and change it back to velocious curse I think that is a lot more balanced considering that curse cant be blocked or dodged. It doesn't make sense that curse is on someone guaranteed for 12 seconds.

I would like the fury execution proc to be dodgeable again, but not passively with shuffle I think its pretty strong as a burst execute that stays tagged on someone for 4 seconds it needs to be dodgeable.

Another change that comes to mind is making bound aegis and bound armaments toggleable on 1 bar rather than equipping it on all 2 or 3 of our bars to keep the buff active. I think these changes would benefit the sorc class immensely.

I still think shield stacking 3 shields at one time is overpowered and that there should only be 2 shields at max on a persons body active at one time.

Furthermore, resto ult is still extremely cheap I would like to see the cost increased up to 170 or 200 ultimate. Anyone that has feedback please respond to this thread anything would be helpful.

@ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert

Emma_Overload

With improvements like these, who needs nerfs?

geonsocal

hmmmmmm, a stamina version of one of a sorcerers offensive skills...

Lord_Invel

@Emma_Overload are they good changes that I proposed ? I think its a fair give and take method that I put forward, what is your opinion if zos changed sorc like this ?

Emma_Overload

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Emma_Overload are they good changes that I proposed ? I think its a fair give and take method that I put forward, what is your opinion if zos changed sorc like this ?

All of these changes sound kind of bad except for making things like Bound Aegis toggled on one bar. ZOS will never do that, though, because we've been asking for one bar toggle since 2014.

For example, the curse echo on Haunting Curse is one of the few useful ways a Sorc can counter Nightblade who is cloaking away from a fight. Why would it be good for Sorcs to take that away?

Shield stacking is also beneficial for Sorcs. Take away that 3rd shield, and what is even the point of Sorcs having our own class shield?

Lowering the proc chance on Frags is also another bad idea. Why trade Frag procs for a stun we already have on Bolt Escape and Rune Prison?

Lord_Invel

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Emma_Overload are they good changes that I proposed ? I think its a fair give and take method that I put forward, what is your opinion if zos changed sorc like this ?

All of these changes sound kind of bad except for making things like Bound Aegis toggled on one bar. ZOS will never do that, though, because we've been asking for one bar toggle since 2014.

For example, the curse echo on Haunting Curse is one of the few useful ways a Sorc can counter Nightblade who is cloaking away from a fight. Why would it be good for Sorcs to take that away?

Shield stacking is also beneficial for Sorcs. Take away that 3rd shield, and what is even the point of Sorcs having our own class shield?

Lowering the proc chance on Frags is also another bad idea. Why trade Frag procs for a stun we already have on Bolt Escape and Rune Prison?

well lowering the proc chance for frags is fair for the stun in exchange. And curse is already super strong without the echo there are many ways to counter nightblades in stealth with streak and defensive rune and regular curse.

And I'm not saying take away the 3rd shield completely. What I'm saying about the shield change is that when someone is low health for example in execute range, most sorcs spam shields just to stay alive and that is rather annoying and overpowered.

You can still have 3 shields on ur bar its just when you have a healing ward up you have to choose one shield to cover the healing ward over it, making it more skillful in cycling your shields rather than just mindlessly spamming them. And for example the two shields you would want to keep up at full health is hardened and harness. So low health would be healing and hardened , while at high health it would be hardened and harness.

Joy_Division

Emma is correct in this instance.

As much as Wrobel has gutted this class, I would prefer to play what's on Live than what you have proposed here.

I care more about the fragments proc than the stun, A lot more.

I thought Haunting buff was stupid, but I am loath to give anything back at this point.

A regular fury cast is dodgeable, but I don;t think a cast while under 20% is. Was probably a consequence of making it the execute "more responsive." K you want to get rid of it fine. But Emma's right: nerf, nerf, nerf, all for what, so I don;t have to toggle Bound Aegis?

I understand what you are trying to do here: give and take. But you are giving far too much - and I think you feel compelled to give far too much because the perception is that sorcs are OP

Lord_Invel

Joy_Division wrote: »

Emma is correct in this instance.

As much as Wrobel has gutted this class, I would prefer to play what's on Live than what you have proposed here.

I care more about the fragments proc than the stun, A lot more.

I thought Haunting buff was stupid, but I am loath to give anything back at this point.

A regular fury cast is dodgeable, but I don;t think a cast while under 20% is. Was probably a consequence of making it the execute "more responsive." K you want to get rid of it fine. But Emma's right: nerf, nerf, nerf, all for what, so I don;t have to toggle Bound Aegis?

I understand what you are trying to do here: give and take. But you are giving far too much - and I think you feel compelled to give far too much because the perception is that sorcs are OP

I agree with you I do feel like you are right in your analysis of my forum thread. What would you propose for mag sorc and stam sorc? I do really want bound aegis and armaments to be buffed and frag to retain the stun. Other than that I don't what else we can give up for those changes what do you have in mind ? @Joy_Division

Biro123

The frag stun is an odd one, and I think I see why it was done.

I think an on-demand CC ability is great, don't get me wrong, but finding a slot for it is a nightmare. Potentially it could be a great asset to help line up that burst - but it wouldn't work with one of our main damage abilities giving cc immunity every time its used.
Removing the stun from frag in theory allows us to use frags more often as part of just 'doing damage', while also being able to control when we apply cc and give immunity via a separate skill. Like I say, this is in theory good - or would be if sorcs didn't NEED so many slots just for basic survivability/mobility.

I think reducing the frag proc-chance is a bad move. It already procs very infrequently UNLESS you slot it on both bars. Imho, it should go the other way and have a similar treatment to bound armour.. ie let it proc from your back-bar, so you actually get a true 30% proc rate by only slotting it once (and I think this would work well with the cc-removal too - allowing it to be a more staple part of the damage rotation)

Dodgeable fury proc? I'm not sure it would make much difference.. I mean surely most of the time it goes off because the target just took enough damage to drop them to 20% - which in most cases means that they just got hit by something - and therefore weren't dodging anyway..
Its something I see people cry about (like implosion on magsorc) - but in reality, what difference will it really make?

Shield spamming on low health?
Doesn't every class go full defence on low-health? The biggest difference here is that sorcs STAY low health, so their opponents see a low-health target and complain about not being able to kill it with a single execute - forgetting that anyone else would have healed instead of shielded - and so not be low health anymore... I honestly think this is a perception issue more than anything.. If you're at 10% health, what is better, a 10k shield or a 10k BoL? I'd go for the BoL cos those HP are then are protected by resists/blocking and you're also out of execute range..

What I think sorcs are missing is a way to heal without shields and resto. This is what forces all sorcs into a shield-stacking mechanic. If there was an option to have both heals AND run sword n shield for defence, I'm sure there would be plenty who would drop shields and do that on the back bar, leaving destro on the front for damage. Imagine the skill slots that would free up, and the build variety we would see!

Beardimus

So basically its a Nerf Sorc thread in disguise. Top Marks.

Nope, I disagree with most of your points. Bound Aegis being 1 bar makes sense.

And Crystal Blast going Stam instead of AOE nonsense no one's gunna use is fine my me.

The rest are bad suggestions IMHO.

Joy_Division

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Emma is correct in this instance.

As much as Wrobel has gutted this class, I would prefer to play what's on Live than what you have proposed here.

I care more about the fragments proc than the stun, A lot more.

I thought Haunting buff was stupid, but I am loath to give anything back at this point.

A regular fury cast is dodgeable, but I don;t think a cast while under 20% is. Was probably a consequence of making it the execute "more responsive." K you want to get rid of it fine. But Emma's right: nerf, nerf, nerf, all for what, so I don;t have to toggle Bound Aegis?

I understand what you are trying to do here: give and take. But you are giving far too much - and I think you feel compelled to give far too much because the perception is that sorcs are OP

I agree with you I do feel like you are right in your analysis of my forum thread. What would you propose for mag sorc and stam sorc? I do really want bound aegis and armaments to be buffed and frag to retain the stun. Other than that I don't what else we can give up for those changes what do you have in mind ? @Joy_Division

At this point I am beyond all hope that any halfway decent suggestion will do any good.

My issue with the iconic sorc has never been their damage, but their shield stacking. So:

• Revert all crystal frag nerfs
• Revert mine nerfs
• Disallow shield stacking
• Revert whiplash "feature" to streak (i.e. loss of momentum)
• Streak does not cost increase if hit an enemy (i.e. used offensively)
• Sorcs dont get 38 meter undodgeable and unblockable stun, sorry not needed
• Sorcs do get some additional defense to make up for loss of shield stacking. This becomes bound aegis and it's no longer a toggle.
• Crystal blast replace with the spinning attack Molag Kena boss does - scales with both magicka and stamaina so nobody loses anything

pzschrek

Hey guys! I found a picture in the ZOS archives of the desired endstate of the sorc class:



In all seriousness though, this. There's nowhere to put it:

Biro123 wrote: »

I think an on-demand CC ability is great, don't get me wrong, but finding a slot for it is a nightmare...this is in theory good - or would be if sorcs didn't NEED so many slots just for basic survivability/mobility.

NyassaV

OMG now you have to make sacrifices like the rest of us whatever will you do?! (Hint: make the most of your sacrifice)