Reduced cost CP respecs and why Clockwork city is the update when we want them
Jim_Pipp
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EDIT on 24/10 I decided to put the argument differently
Original post - please note that I got the gold cost of CP specs wrong, they actually cost 3k per character. As @elijafire points out the cost for 14 characters would be 42,000 gold.
Each update players over the Champion Point (CP) cap get 30 more CP, but because of CP jump points it is very easy for those extra CP to do absolutely nothing useful.
In Clockwork City (CWC) update the extra CP may be particularly significant because the 690 CP cap is enough to get more CP passives than we have had before (230cp per constellation = 120 point passive in 1 tree, 75 point passive in the next and 30 point passive in another). While the passives are not for every build, this is going to be a huge buff to some builds and especially to characters levelling up to 50... which many of us will be doing during the release of CWC.
Any decent player will want to get some use from the extra CP, so most people have to respec every character they play. If you are respeccing the CP in 14 characters it will cost you more than 50,000 gold.
[So ZOS, you lose nothing by offering reduced cost CP respecs (there is no crown store equivalent), so why not?]
Edited by Jim_Pipp on October 24, 2017 12:39PM In hindsight I regret making my original argument based on the gold cost and the need for passives, because the cost isn't prohibitive (although it does add up with up to 4 updates per year) and the passives are not the most important thing.
What I was trying to draw attention to is the interaction between three eso mechanics that effectively force players to spend gold every update, and I do not think this is very player friendly even though the mechanics individually are ok. I'll just mention the mechanics I mean.
1) The CP cap. If you have earned more CP than the current cap you get the extra all at once each update (no problem, that's ok)
2) Diminishing returns on CP. The more CP you put into a single line the less benefit you get (Again this is a nice mechanic)
3) CP "jump points". I won't explain this as there are better threads, but basically you can put up to 24 cp into a single line without getting any benefit. So when you get your extra CP each update they may not do anything at all unless you respec.
So it's not a big problem, but right now when I am saving up to have enough for gold spell-power cure jewellery I am going to put off respeccing some characters because of the gold cost. I don't understand why any player over the CP cap wouldn't want a reduced cost respec when each update necessitates that they respec anyway.
Original post - please note that I got the gold cost of CP specs wrong, they actually cost 3k per character. As @elijafire points out the cost for 14 characters would be 42,000 gold.
Each update players over the Champion Point (CP) cap get 30 more CP, but because of CP jump points it is very easy for those extra CP to do absolutely nothing useful.
In Clockwork City (CWC) update the extra CP may be particularly significant because the 690 CP cap is enough to get more CP passives than we have had before (230cp per constellation = 120 point passive in 1 tree, 75 point passive in the next and 30 point passive in another). While the passives are not for every build, this is going to be a huge buff to some builds and especially to characters levelling up to 50... which many of us will be doing during the release of CWC.
Any decent player will want to get some use from the extra CP, so most people have to respec every character they play. If you are respeccing the CP in 14 characters it will cost you more than 50,000 gold.
[So ZOS, you lose nothing by offering reduced cost CP respecs (there is no crown store equivalent), so why not?]
#1 tip (Re)check your graphics settings periodically - especially resolution.
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JerzeeDevil✭✭✭Loose or lose?
It is very easy to get gold in this game. Fortunes wax and wane!
You'll be fine, if you are on PS4 NA I can float you a loan.....
Be warned though, I'm Sicilian!!!!jerzeedevil.com
If looks could kill, then Death would be my name.
Daggerfall's Mightiest- PS4 NA
Wardens of Morrowind-PS4 NA
Cyrodiil Death Squad- PS4 NA/EU6 -
Jim_Pipp✭✭✭✭✭
✭JerzeeDevil wrote: »Loose or lose?
Thankyou grammar mafia! I edited!
If I'm honest it's not totally about the money, although I will have to budget to keep a good stash of cash for release date (also because gold dungeon jewellery is coming, but that's something else).
It's more that I am a little bit resentful that I have earned my CP, and zos have a system that means I need to pay gold to use them. If they got rid of CP jump points I would have nothing to say, but they have made a system where you pay the gold or you lose (or loose) CP - ok you don't lose them, but you don't get a benefit from them, they are there but only loosely.#1 tip (Re)check your graphics settings periodically - especially resolution.1 -
JerzeeDevil✭✭✭JerzeeDevil wrote: »Loose or lose?
Thankyou grammar mafia! I edited!
If I'm honest it's not totally about the money, although I will have to budget to keep a good stash of cash for release date (also because gold dungeon jewellery is coming, but that's something else).
It's more that I am a little bit resentful that I have earned my CP, and zos have a system that means I need to pay gold to use them. If they got rid of CP jump points I would have nothing to say, but they have made a system where you pay the gold or you lose (or loose) CP - ok you don't lose them, but you don't get a benefit from them, they are there but only loosely.
Mafia***
I honestly am ALL ABOUT the perks in the Champion Point System.
JDjerzeedevil.com
If looks could kill, then Death would be my name.
Daggerfall's Mightiest- PS4 NA
Wardens of Morrowind-PS4 NA
Cyrodiil Death Squad- PS4 NA/EU0 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agreed, @Jim_Pipp. A one (1) gold respec for a week would be in line ... given all the skill changes.2 -
PlagueSD✭✭✭✭✭
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Any decent player will want to get some use from the extra CP, so most people have to respec every character they play. If you are respeccing the CP in 14 characters it will cost you more than 50,000 gold.
You're complaining about 50K gold across 14 characters??? that's 3,572 gold per character. I can make that in 20 mins stealing stuff. Besides, I have more than 50k gold on my characters that I ONLY do crafting writs with.0 -
elijafire✭✭✭Each update players over the Champion Point (CP) cap get 30 more CP, but because of CP jump points it is very easy for those extra CP to do absolutely nothing useful.
In Clockwork City (CWC) update the extra CP may be particularly significant because the 690 CP cap is enough to get more CP passives than we have had before (230cp per constellation = 120 point passive in 1 tree, 75 point passive in the next and 30 point passive in another). While the passives are not for every build, this is going to be a huge buff to some builds and especially to characters levelling up to 50... which many of us will be doing during the release of CWC.
Any decent player will want to get some use from the extra CP, so most people have to respec every character they play. If you are respeccing the CP in 14 characters it will cost you more than 50,000 gold.
[So ZOS, you lose nothing by offering reduced cost CP respecs (there is no crown store equivalent), so why not?]
Isn't it 3k to respect your CP which is 3 * 14 = 42k how is that more than 50k what am I missing?1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Each update players over the Champion Point (CP) cap get 30 more CP, but because of CP jump points it is very easy for those extra CP to do absolutely nothing useful.
In Clockwork City (CWC) update the extra CP may be particularly significant because the 690 CP cap is enough to get more CP passives than we have had before (230cp per constellation = 120 point passive in 1 tree, 75 point passive in the next and 30 point passive in another). While the passives are not for every build, this is going to be a huge buff to some builds and especially to characters levelling up to 50... which many of us will be doing during the release of CWC.
Any decent player will want to get some use from the extra CP, so most people have to respec every character they play. If you are respeccing the CP in 14 characters it will cost you more than 50,000 gold.
[So ZOS, you lose nothing by offering reduced cost CP respecs (there is no crown store equivalent), so why not?]
What passives are so gamebreaker you wouldn't already have?
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Jim_Pipp✭✭✭✭✭
✭Isn't it 3k to respect your CP which is 3 * 14 = 42k how is that more than 50k what am I missing?
You are absolutely correct. It is 3k, I had to log on to check because I was (wrongly) convinced it was 3.6k. I'll put an edit in the OP.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »What passives are so gamebreaker you wouldn't already have?
That's like asking what is the best build - there isn't just one, it depends on what build you have and how many CP you have. Next update we will have enough CP to get 2 x 120 point passives and that could be more significant. The more important issue is that, because of diminishing returns, you will not be able to advance your most important CP lines with just the extra 10cp you get per update, so you really have to respec to get the most out of the CP you have earned.
In hindsight I regret making my original argument based on the gold cost and the need for passives, because the cost isn't prohibitive (although it does add up with up to 4 updates per year) and the passives are not the most important thing.
What I was trying to draw attention to is the interaction between three eso mechanics that effectively force players to spend gold every update, and I do not think this is very player friendly even though the mechanics individually are ok. I'll just mention the mechanics I mean.
1) The CP cap. If you have earned more CP than the current cap you get the extra all at once each update (no problem, that's ok)
2) Diminishing returns on CP. The more CP you put into a single line the less benefit you get (Again this is a nice mechanic)
3) CP "jump points". I won't explain this as there are better threads, but basically you can put up to 24 cp into a single line without getting any benefit. So when you get your extra CP each update they may not do anything at all unless you respec.
So it's not a big problem, but right now when I am saving up to have enough for gold spell-power cure jewellery I am going to put off respeccing some characters because of the gold cost. I don't understand why any player over the CP cap wouldn't want a reduced cost respec when each update necessitates that they respec anyway.Edited by Jim_Pipp on October 24, 2017 12:43PM#1 tip (Re)check your graphics settings periodically - especially resolution.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I still don’t know why respecs cost gold at all. It’s inconvenient as it is because you can’t save several presets. That’s one of the most compelling arguments for playing noCP PvP (besides the missing inflated stats and mitigation) - I don’t have to change my CP alignment which is optimized for PvE.
At one point it was a gold sink. Now it’s just inconvenient. I think ZOS should allow cost free changes and find some more convincing things to spend gold on.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
elijafire✭✭✭the sooner we reach 3600 the sooner hybrid becomes possible...
I lolled at this one
JerzeeDevil wrote: »Loose or lose?
Thankyou grammar mafia! I edited!
I think that's a spelling ***
I still don’t know why respecs cost gold at all. It’s inconvenient as it is because you can’t save several presets. That’s one of the most compelling arguments for playing noCP PvP (besides the missing inflated stats and mitigation) - I don’t have to change my CP alignment which is optimized for PvE.
At one point it was a gold sink. Now it’s just inconvenient. I think ZOS should allow cost free changes and find some more convincing things to spend gold on.
Totally agree at least when it comes to after CP increases or skill changes. "Here we screwed up your build, now throw your hard earned gold into the nether. You are welcome."
Jerks.
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »What passives are so gamebreaker you wouldn't already have?
That's like asking what is the best build - there isn't just one, it depends on what build you have and how many CP you have. Next update we will have enough CP to get 2 x 120 point passives and that could be more significant. The more important issue is that, because of diminishing returns, you will not be able to advance your most important CP lines with just the extra 10cp you get per update, so you really have to respec to get the most out of the CP you have earned.
Are you just assuming or are there some specific combinations I overlooked? Some analyse like:
For the blue constellation: On a DoT based stam toon you most likely unlock 120 (last stand) in Ritual, 75 (butcher) in Atronach and can now unlock additional perks in the apprentice, means: vengeance and spell precision. Both won't do any good. Really nothing gained.
Something along this. Because I fail to see what 30 point passive would really shove a build over the top.0 -
Jim_Pipp✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »What passives are so gamebreaker you wouldn't already have?
That's like asking what is the best build - there isn't just one, it depends on what build you have and how many CP you have. Next update we will have enough CP to get 2 x 120 point passives and that could be more significant. The more important issue is that, because of diminishing returns, you will not be able to advance your most important CP lines with just the extra 10cp you get per update, so you really have to respec to get the most out of the CP you have earned.
Are you just assuming or are there some specific combinations I overlooked? Some analyse like:
For the blue constellation: On a DoT based stam toon you most likely unlock 120 (last stand) in Ritual, 75 (butcher) in Atronach and can now unlock additional perks in the apprentice, means: vengeance and spell precision. Both won't do any good. Really nothing gained.
Something along this. Because I fail to see what 30 point passive would really shove a build over the top.
Hi Chilly. I am sorry but I'm deliberately not going to answer "this combination of passives is really strong" because the conversation will devolve into a debate about that combination. This is a discussion about how players must pay gold to fully use all the CP they have earned.
I'm sure you would agree that the more CP you use in your build, the better your build will be, and to use all your available CP after an update you'll probably have to pay gold. The CP points you choose will depend on your build, sometimes putting 200 points into one constellation will be better than spreading them out for more passives. (I'm sorry if that sounds patronising, but I wanted to clearly state it, I'm sorry if I sound like a ***)
Equally, the passives are nice bonuses, you used the example of the blue tree, if instead we talk about a Dot based magicka character, perhaps a pet sorc as they tend to use heavy attacks between their dot's - you would get arcane well (120 in the apprentice) and exploiter (75 in the ritual), so the third could be 31 points into staff expert for the 30 point riposte passive which lets you return damage to enemies when you block, it's not over-powered but it might be better to have that passive than to be without it if you don't need to put your CP elsewhere.
Passives like inspiration boost (30), windrunning (120) and treasure hunter (75) are great on a newly levelled character who is doing a lot of exploring, and on my newly level 50 character I will choose my green tree CP for these passives. It's not overpowered, but it suits what I am building for.#1 tip (Re)check your graphics settings periodically - especially resolution.0
