Firemoth Island and Naryu

yinepuhotepb14_ESO

I'm seriously disappointed in the conversation options offered when talking with Naryu during the Firemoth Island tutorial. Especially when playing a dunmer. As soon as she reveals that she's Morag Tong, the response should NOT be "why should I help an assassin", it should be "yes ma'am, anything you want ma'am, would you like fries with that ma'am?". This is the freaking Morag Tong we're talking about here. Treating her like she's just a paid murderer is an insult.

BrianDavion

because in this era the Tong are JUUST getting back on their feet after being pretty much wiped out,. and as far as the majority of Tamnerial is concerned, yeah they where just hired killers

VaranisArano

Even the Morag Tong in TES III isn't treated with deference. Being a member of the Morag Tong just means that you can present a writ to law enforcement and say "Sure, I totally murdered that guy in cold blood with tons of witnesses, but he was a total n'wah and someone with more money than you paid me to murder him, so go away and pretend this doesn't matter." and the guards have to let you go.

Plus, in the Skyrim Dragonborn DLC, the Dunmer of Raven Rock happily

send you out to kill off the Morag Tong assassins from the Ulen Clan who are trying to assassinate the First Councilor

So its not all fun and games in the Morag Tong if you run afoul of the wrong Dunmer.

In short, the Morag Tong ARE paid murderers. Its just that they are paid murderers who provide a reasonable alternative to dealing with slights to a Great House's honor that would normally otherwise provoke major conflicts between houses resulting in violence on a grander scale. The Morag Tong (and honor duels) are an established fixture of Dunmer culture because Dunmer culture is kind of effed up. In a fun, fantasy culture sort of way to be sure, but still kinda effed up, which in many ways is what makes them so darned interesting.

THWIP71

People actually read the conversations in this game? I just click through, unless I see red text and/or "intimidate" or "persuade".

LordGavus

I'm more annoyed at the options and npc responses through out the rest of vvardenfel, when playing as a dunmer.

Would be nice if the conversations change slightly to reflect that you are a dunmer.

Greifenherz

LordGavus wrote: »

I'm more annoyed at the options and npc responses through out the rest of vvardenfel, when playing as a dunmer.

Would be nice if the conversations change slightly to reflect that you are a dunmer.

I'm actually curious (having only Khajiit characters), does everyone still call you outlander, n'wah etc. as Dunmer?

WhiteCoatSyndrome

BrianDavion wrote: »

because in this era the Tong are JUUST getting back on their feet after being pretty much wiped out,. and as far as the majority of Tamnerial is concerned, yeah they where just hired killers

^This is a good point; given that they murdered the last set of Dragonborn Emperors AND the Potentates holding things together afterwards...the whole Planemeld mess is indirectly their fault.

VaranisArano

LordGavus wrote: »

I'm more annoyed at the options and npc responses through out the rest of vvardenfel, when playing as a dunmer.

Would be nice if the conversations change slightly to reflect that you are a dunmer.

That depends. Knowing about TES III, the conversations don't change too much if you are a Dunmer. Because you might be Dunmer, but you are most definitely an outlander.

Funny comic by Isriana about that: https://isriana.deviantart.com/art/Morrowind-Outlander-386908501

Jaimeh

VaranisArano wrote: »

That depends. Knowing about TES III, the conversations don't change too much if you are a Dunmer. Because you might be Dunmer, but you are most definitely an outlander.

Funny comic by Isriana about that: https://isriana.deviantart.com/art/Morrowind-Outlander-386908501

Thanks for linking the comic, it was funny, and that suitcase detail at the end...

ADarklore

THWIP71 wrote: »

People actually read the conversations in this game? I just click through, unless I see red text and/or "intimidate" or "persuade".

I used to do that until I realized that you can end a really good story by 'persuading'... like in the Malabal Tor delve quest, "Brothers and Bandits". If you 'persuade' the brother to leave, you never get the medicinal plant for this brother and he's really angry at the end. Otherwise, if you go with a normal response, you help get the plant and a receive very rewarding 'thank you' at the end. After realizing that the 'persuade' or 'intimidate' can be received negatively sometimes, I now opt to read the conversations before jumping to either of those two options.

LordGavus

VaranisArano wrote: »

LordGavus wrote: »

I'm more annoyed at the options and npc responses through out the rest of vvardenfel, when playing as a dunmer.

Would be nice if the conversations change slightly to reflect that you are a dunmer.

That depends. Knowing about TES III, the conversations don't change too much if you are a Dunmer. Because you might be Dunmer, but you are most definitely an outlander.

Funny comic by Isriana about that: https://isriana.deviantart.com/art/Morrowind-Outlander-386908501

Haha nice comic.
I guess when you look at it like that it makes sense.
I guess it just bothered me a bit because since TES III I've always played dunmers.

Greifenherz wrote: »

LordGavus wrote: »

I'm more annoyed at the options and npc responses through out the rest of vvardenfel, when playing as a dunmer.

Would be nice if the conversations change slightly to reflect that you are a dunmer.

I'm actually curious (having only Khajiit characters), does everyone still call you outlander, n'wah etc. as Dunmer?

Yeah they do.

yinepuhotepb14_ESO

LordGavus wrote: »

I'm more annoyed at the options and npc responses through out the rest of vvardenfel, when playing as a dunmer.

Would be nice if the conversations change slightly to reflect that you are a dunmer.

I'm with you on this, too. Your character may, in theory, be an Ashlander, but that's still not an Outlander.

yinepuhotepb14_ESO

VaranisArano wrote: »

In short, the Morag Tong ARE paid murderers. Its just that they are paid murderers who provide a reasonable alternative to dealing with slights to a Great House's honor that would normally otherwise provoke major conflicts between houses resulting in violence on a grander scale. The Morag Tong (and honor duels) are an established fixture of Dunmer culture because Dunmer culture is kind of effed up. In a fun, fantasy culture sort of way to be sure, but still kinda effed up, which in many ways is what makes them so darned interesting.

You have a point. I just tend to think of paid murderers being more on the order of the Warclaws than the Morag Tong. As Naryu points out, the perfect assassination should look like the victim died of natural causes, or at worst an accident, and anyone other than the name on the Writ is not to be harmed, or the Tong will take a very dim view of things. When you compare that to the Warclaws, you get an entirely different vibe.

TheShadowScout

LordGavus wrote: »

I'm more annoyed at the options and npc responses through out the rest of vvardenfel, when playing as a dunmer.

Would be nice if the conversations change slightly to reflect that you are a dunmer.

Personally I think the game really could use more dialoge variation depending on your character choices... there is a little of that in the newer regions, but not enough by far, and way too little in the older ones...
I mean, go as dunmer into Shadowfen, and see how many argonians are wary because they don't know if you are one of the slavering ones or not... go as argonian into dunmer lands and see how many dunmer size you up for chains... go as orc into any human DC regions and see how many people treat you differently... go as bosmer or khajiit through Auridion and see how many times some conversation is different... go as imperial into -any- region and see how things go... in every case, not enough difference!
Also, gender... I would have loved it if there was some difference there, if female characters got lewd offers from male NPCs (and the occasional chance to kick them in the -ouch- for it ) while male characters get "macho bro talk" from the same, and so on...

Oh, well.

As for the Morag Tong... I actually liked the conversations with Naryu in Deshaan, where she is extra careful not to open up with "Hi! I'm an daedra-worshipping assassin who murders people for fun and profit! Wanna help me with this job here?"

Number_51

The silt strider caravaners have different dialog if you're Dunmer, but overall I agree... I wish there were much more race based dialog changes throughout the game.

yinepuhotepb14_ESO

TheShadowScout wrote: »

As for the Morag Tong... I actually liked the conversations with Naryu in Deshaan, where she is extra careful not to open up with "Hi! I'm an daedra-worshipping assassin who murders people for fun and profit! Wanna help me with this job here?"

Oh, I totally love Naryu. She's a wicked cool character and her conversations are great. My complaint is that I don't have the option to answer her with something like "OK, so you're an assassin. As long as I'm not your target, I can live with that", or "Morag Tong? What do you need, ma'am?". Instead, all I get is "Why would I want to help an assassin?" and NO other choices AT ALL.

VaranisArano

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Also, gender... I would have loved it if there was some difference there, if female characters got lewd offers from male NPCs (and the occasional chance to kick them in the -ouch- for it ) while male characters get "macho bro talk" from the same, and so on...

Oh, well.

I'm not going to lie. That's just gross. Female characters ought to be harassed by NPCs in a game we play for fun? Very uncool, TheShadowScout.

Besides, consensual lewd offers is what asking for ERP in zone chat is all about.

JerzeeDevil

Didn't we all make out with her at the end of the Dark Brotherhood quest line in Kvatch?

And then she doesn't even recognize us?!

Typical! (Kidding...Mostly)

eso_nya

I love and hate meaningful choices.
Spoiler mages guild and reapers march story:

I do hate that the choice i usually wouldnt pick is the one that grants 2 skillpoints. So yeah, i hope Valaste is more happy with the butterflies, also screwing over Sheldor is kinda what he deserves, weak excuse tho.

At the same time, i really dislike how i get and pick the choice to save Raz, but no matter of the choice, Cariel takes over the story from that point on.

So i would like to see more meaningful choices, but at the same time looking at the past:
I was leading one of the very few progressive raiding teams on a RP-server once. All of us were kinda stranded there, because didnt know what RP means, clicked the first server in the list to get to char creation and start playing or both even, and once we finally figured out, we were way to far to reroll on a different server....and that wasnt even a real ingame choice xD

crashen17b14_ESO

VaranisArano wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Also, gender... I would have loved it if there was some difference there, if female characters got lewd offers from male NPCs (and the occasional chance to kick them in the -ouch- for it ) while male characters get "macho bro talk" from the same, and so on...

Oh, well.

I'm not going to lie. That's just gross. Female characters ought to be harassed by NPCs in a game we play for fun? Very uncool, TheShadowScout.

Besides, consensual lewd offers is what asking for ERP in zone chat is all about.

So ruthlessly murdering scores of innocent civilians for hair clippings and maybe a motif chapter is totally fine, so is having the King of *** steal our souls. But a *** npc makes a lewd comment, and thats crossing the line? What about Jakarn on Stros Mkai? That guy oozes so much sleaze you can use him to lubricate all the dwemer animunculi in Mzenldt! Granted I hate him and Darien Gautier with a passion, but they are both some of the most memorable characters in the game, precisely because they are such skeevers. Well Darien has some other stuff going too, but he is still slimey.


On topic, I figure Vvardenfell dunmer are even more xenophobic and elitist than regular dunmer, to the point that they look down their not inconsoderable noses even on other dunmer. They are a bitter and caustic race as a whole, they disdain everyone, even themselves.

VaranisArano

crashen17b14_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Also, gender... I would have loved it if there was some difference there, if female characters got lewd offers from male NPCs (and the occasional chance to kick them in the -ouch- for it ) while male characters get "macho bro talk" from the same, and so on...

Oh, well.

I'm not going to lie. That's just gross. Female characters ought to be harassed by NPCs in a game we play for fun? Very uncool, TheShadowScout.

Besides, consensual lewd offers is what asking for ERP in zone chat is all about.

So ruthlessly murdering scores of innocent civilians for hair clippings and maybe a motif chapter is totally fine, so is having the King of *** steal our souls. But a *** npc makes a lewd comment, and thats crossing the line? What about Jakarn on Stros Mkai? That guy oozes so much sleaze you can use him to lubricate all the dwemer animunculi in Mzenldt! Granted I hate him and Darien Gautier with a passion, but they are both some of the most memorable characters in the game, precisely because they are such skeevers. Well Darien has some other stuff going too, but he is still slimey.


On topic, I figure Vvardenfell dunmer are even more xenophobic and elitist than regular dunmer, to the point that they look down their not inconsoderable noses even on other dunmer. They are a bitter and caustic race as a whole, they disdain everyone, even themselves.

You argument is essentially "So, players get to do horrible things to NPCs all the time, so having an NPC say something nasty to a player should be totally okay, right?"

Which I guess I understand, if it weren't for the fact that there's only one real person in that conversation, and its not the NPC.

I don't play this game for my character to get sexually harassed by NPCs. In fact, I don't play this game to get harassed at ALL, since sexual harassment is not allowed under the TOS. Your suggestion is basically asking for player characters in a role-playing game to be sexually harassed by NPC comments, and yes, that's a jerk move.

Just because my Vestige can wipe the floor with anyone insulting her doesn't mean she should have too.

yinepuhotepb14_ESO

crashen17b14_ESO wrote: »

On topic, I figure Vvardenfell dunmer are even more xenophobic and elitist than regular dunmer, to the point that they look down their not inconsoderable noses even on other dunmer. They are a bitter and caustic race as a whole, they disdain everyone, even themselves.

I have been reliably informed that this is not an unfair opinion, that House Dunmer are some of the most bitter and caustic on Nirn, and Ashlanders have been screwed over by the House Dunmer so many times they have more than enough reason to hate and fear anyone who's not an Ashlander, let alone from their own tribe. Add to that the number of "Neraverine" claimants who have arisen since

the Tribunal backstabbed Nerevar and Azura

and you have more than enough reason for the Ashlanders to distrust everything outside their own family that walks on two legs, and more than enough reason for House Dunmer to be paranoid that the Ordinators will go all Torquemada on them at the drop of a hat.