shouldn't name and shaming be allowed?

Wing

it always confused me as to why it was against some games TOS to prevent "naming and shaming"

but is this not one of the best ways for the community to police itself?

public disgrace (despite the classic trolls saying they don't care) is one of the oldest punishments in the book, there is no physical pain or tangible action taken (like account suspension or what have you) and yet its incredibly embarrassing for the individual.

its a very basic concept, the idea that the system tries to protect individuals identities or actions that are clearly harmful, hurtful, or cheating only further leads to the toxic environment that games are being so heavily criticized for today.

if someone is deliberately cheating to make themselves appear better, but everyone finds about it and spreads the information, and it becomes widely known that a person is a cheater do you think there going to get the same satisfaction out of cheating when everyone just shrugs it off and is like "well yeah but your a cheater. . ."

if people are cheating, being abusive, trolling, hacking, etc. I think it should be fine to call them out on it, if ZOS wants to do something about it as well that's fantastic, but I think letting the community police itself by calling out these individuals and publicly humiliating them is fair game.

AlienatedGoat

No, it shouldn't be allowed.

You can't be certain that 100% of the people that are named and shamed are actually at fault for anything. There will be trolls and *** that will post names and/or altered evidence to hurt someone else's reputation. It's happened before in other communities that had lax rules on naming and shaming. I'd much rather nobody get to name and shame than have the possibility of innocent players getting reamed by trolls.

GeorgeBlack

Shame what?
Only the fear of banned account matters in games. What would people be shamed of?

Judas Helviaryn

Witch hunts aren't policing the community. They're personal vendettas made public via goading and misinformation.

You may feel like you'd be honest, but no community can suffer vigilantism without harming innocent people.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Wing wrote: »

it always confused me as to why it was against some games TOS to prevent "naming and shaming"

but is this not one of the best ways for the community to police itself?

public disgrace (despite the classic trolls saying they don't care) is one of the oldest punishments in the book, there is no physical pain or tangible action taken (like account suspension or what have you) and yet its incredibly embarrassing for the individual.

Wait until you're publicly accused, named and shamed while being innocent. Because someone wants to tease you. Or to troll you. Or to take some revenge. Or simply hates you.

The only reason naming and shaming is not allowed is that it would be used against innocent - and the forum would turn into battlefields of people being accused, defending themselves, people taking sides, etc...

Real Life history is full off innocent people burnt alive because "the crowd asked for it".

AlienatedGoat

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Witch hunts aren't policing the community. They're personal vendettas made public via goading and misinformation.

You may feel like you'd be honest, but no community can suffer vigilantism without harming innocent people.

Exactly.

If anyone finds a scammer or someone they think is breaking the Terms of Service, lodge a report ticket and complain and let ZOS handle it.

Don't want to lodge a report ticket? Well then, it's not that important.

kyle.wilson

Players shouldn't be allowed to name and shame here, but I'm all for ZOS having a list of all players banned from the game.

H1Z1's policy of allowing banned players back in only after a public apology, is a good way to guarantee they won't cheat again.

redspecter23

In theory, it would be great if offenders could be named. In actuality, it would be abused almost instantly, both on purpose and accidentally. If you name someone that is innocent even if you believe them to be at fault, then by definition you are now an offender for falsely accusing. It gets a bit messy.

I'm all for publicly shaming those that have been proven guilty and permabanned by ZOS, but I don't think they'd go for that one either, for similar reasons. Plenty of people have been wrongfully banned in the past. ZOS doesn't have an infallable cheat/bot detection system in place by any definition.

Rainraven

No.

When self-appointed "punishers" have free rein it can get way out of hand, particularly when they (innocently) have it wrong, or when someone uses that group outrage for personal vendetta. ZOS is wise to keep that hell off their board and never their problem. There are private channels to report violations of TOS or human decency or w/e and that's sufficient.

Cpt_Teemo

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Witch hunts aren't policing the community. They're personal vendettas made public via goading and misinformation.

You may feel like you'd be honest, but no community can suffer vigilantism without harming innocent people.

If you showed proof of a ratio that no one can get manually to those using bots i'm sure you can tell the difference.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

If you showed proof of a ratio that no one can get manually to those using bots i'm sure you can tell the difference.

Proof ? What proof ? It's a digital world. Any proof can be faked and twisted. And people would not wait for "proofs" - real or faked - to make up their minds and make innocent players' life hell.

Besides, if there's one category of players that isn't affected by naming, shaming and public disgrace whatsoever.. it's bots.

FriedEggSandwich

Innocent until proven guilty. Works the same in real life; wrongful accusations can wreck lives. Just to clarify that naming is the same as shaming, in that if you name you can set someone else up to shame, whether you intended to or not. This is why you see people blur names when they post screenies, even when that name is just a bystander.

GeorgeBlack

Taking gaming 2 seriously much

FriedEggSandwich

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Taking gaming 2 seriously much

Says you xD

ArchMikem

Wing wrote: »

it always confused me as to why it was against some games TOS to prevent "naming and shaming"

but is this not one of the best ways for the community to police itself?

public disgrace (despite the classic trolls saying they don't care) is one of the oldest punishments in the book, there is no physical pain or tangible action taken (like account suspension or what have you) and yet its incredibly embarrassing for the individual.

Phage wrote: »

No, it shouldn't be allowed.

You can't be certain that 100% of the people that are named and shamed are actually at fault for anything.

That.

Get real for a second OP. People would sooner make crap up in order to, for lack of a better term, bully people at random for lolz and gigglez than actually use that freedom to police the players that had actually done something like botting or cheating. You give the majority of the playerbase too much credit for thinking they'd be responsible people.

srfrogg23

Wing wrote: »

it always confused me as to why it was against some games TOS to prevent "naming and shaming"

but is this not one of the best ways for the community to police itself?

public disgrace (despite the classic trolls saying they don't care) is one of the oldest punishments in the book, there is no physical pain or tangible action taken (like account suspension or what have you) and yet its incredibly embarrassing for the individual.

its a very basic concept, the idea that the system tries to protect individuals identities or actions that are clearly harmful, hurtful, or cheating only further leads to the toxic environment that games are being so heavily criticized for today.

if someone is deliberately cheating to make themselves appear better, but everyone finds about it and spreads the information, and it becomes widely known that a person is a cheater do you think there going to get the same satisfaction out of cheating when everyone just shrugs it off and is like "well yeah but your a cheater. . ."

if people are cheating, being abusive, trolling, hacking, etc. I think it should be fine to call them out on it, if ZOS wants to do something about it as well that's fantastic, but I think letting the community police itself by calling out these individuals and publicly humiliating them is fair game.

Yeah, that sounds like an awesome way to troll people! Nothing like giving the most toxic people a free run of naming and shaming other players until all the decent people quit...

Bhaal5

Nope,
As much as id love too name and shame bullies/racist/elitist who take it to far. Where would it get us? Pretty much no wheus. So yeah current system is flawed, but better than naming and shaming.

Betsararie

Of course it should but the mods/rules around here are insane..

Bhaal5

If anything adding "mudballs" was actually a great way of venting 'anger' so then its done and dusted and everyone moves on.

SHADOW2KK

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

it always confused me as to why it was against some games TOS to prevent "naming and shaming"

but is this not one of the best ways for the community to police itself?

public disgrace (despite the classic trolls saying they don't care) is one of the oldest punishments in the book, there is no physical pain or tangible action taken (like account suspension or what have you) and yet its incredibly embarrassing for the individual.

Wait until you're publicly accused, named and shamed while being innocent. Because someone wants to tease you. Or to troll you. Or to take some revenge. Or simply hates you.

The only reason naming and shaming is not allowed is that it would be used against innocent - and the forum would turn into battlefields of people being accused, defending themselves, people taking sides, etc...

Real Life history is full off innocent people burnt alive because "the crowd asked for it".

Well said

PlagueSD

This is a form of "Bullying" which is why it's not allowed.

SydneyGrey

Because naming and shaming can be used to bully people who don't deserve it, as well as being used to call out people who DO deserve it.

WuffyCerulei

No, it could very well ruin their gaming career if someone says they did x or y out publicly, especially if they have no proof about it, which is 98% of the time. If you think someone is legit hacking or something, it needs to be privately taken care of, or otherwise a witch hunt or something will happen.

Cpt_Teemo

Yeah it was my fault that I found over 250 BA pages

starkerealm

No, @Wing. If you want to see why this is a horrific idea, let me link you to the story of @LegendaryMage.


This is why Naming and Shaming is a horrible ******* idea.

EvilCroc

You have your own ignore list. That's enough.

Girl_Number8

No it isn't allowed, nor should it be.

Huyen

Sadly privacy is a difficult point the past few years. So no, it will never be allowed with the current laws around it.

Ratzkifal

It's too easy to just claim things without prove. In the extreme, it can lead to large parts of the community bullying someone innocent because they bought into a lie.

If we try to take the middle ground that naming/shaming can only be done with screenshot evidence or something (for example screenshots of the bot trains that are running around), then we would still have the problem of altered screenshots or things getting taken out of context. Imagine some troll flaming and shouting racial slurs in a whisper chat, but then the same guy takes a screenshot of someone else talking back. It would be so easy to just take a screenshot of the answer without putting what happened before in it.

Not allowing naming/shaming is also in the best interest of Zenimax as they don't want their forums to be full of hate threads and toxicity. That is bad publicity, which they absolutely don't want. Even if the entire community agreed on it, I doubt Zenimax would implement it.

CardboardedBox

Because I could say YOU did something to me in the game, and people would be none the wiser, and assume im correct.

Samadhi

Wing wrote: »

it always confused me as to why it was against some games TOS to prevent "naming and shaming"

but is this not one of the best ways for the community to police itself?
...

With a name like 'Wing'
and how you turned me into a newt
it is safe to say you are a witch
or, at least, test your weight against a duck