when will ZOS do something about the bot epidemic ?

Colecovision

What exactly is the harm? Yes they look dumb and they may change the value of some materials, but I don't see the huge consequences to the rest of us.

Turelus

Colecovision wrote: »

What exactly is the harm? Yes they look dumb and they may change the value of some materials, but I don't see the huge consequences to the rest of us.

@Colecovision inflation if they're vendor trashing, unfair advantages from players guying gold or materials (if ZOS did this P2W crowed would throw a fit), the fact most of these organisations are involved in other shady business or crime.

RMT is bad for games, it's better to fight against it than take the "doesn't effect me I don't care" stance.

KingMagaw wrote: »

So it is the players/forum users fault that ZoS doesn't reply anymore?, sounds legit for a company to do. Additionally, from the topic i linked which is one of many, 9.2k ~views, many posts asking for clarification and what do i see tonight, ZoS posting a useless meme and ignoring topics like these.
Is this proactive in giving me confidence as a customer that issues will be addressed with anything other than a meme if anything at all?. Should i even spend time detailing bugs in the game to be either ignored, topic closed down or like my last support tickets wasted time on my part.

We can all be mature to a point and personally that point in when my time is being wasted. I will stop posting because topics like this got me banned from forums recently which doesn't encourage me to post or to report bots or exploits in the game, how could it ever?.

ZOS has always had issues with communication, no one can argue that. However my point is valid in that when they do come out and make posts to help answer a thread, very often they'll just get abused for that.
Whilst you might dislike the way ZOS functions as a company or the choices they make it's never fair to make personal and rude attacks against the staff working there.

I would love to see ZOS communicate more, I have been asking them for that for three years. I've had PM conversations with ZOS members about it, I've given them links to how other companies have handled things and generally tried to show them why being open is good. However, ZOS isn't every other company and it's taken me a long time to realise that.

They frustrate the hell out of me with some of this stuff, especially botting/RMT issues but it seems every time we start to gain some ground (like getting that thread opened) people turn their targets on ZOS, demand people be fired, tell them they suck at their jobs, outright threaten or insult the people just doing their job of answering a question.

As I said, people don't need to pretend everything is sunshine and rainbows, but when making a post be polite in your critic rather than just blowing up, hurling abuse or spreading anti-ZOS rhetoric and maybe we'll see more replies.

Dexter411

ZOS doesn't care and never will.
No point to report them, no point to open ticket in this case...
Look at forums, there are couple of threads on this topic and there was no response to any of it.

On Sunday(PC EU) out of curiosity I checked Deshaan. 31 bots roaming around doing same stupid things, following same path(recorded all of them). Most of them look like they just finished tutorial, without mundus, 2h, mostly templars.

Now tell me, why I should not start doing it? Why I should not download script, or whatever You need to do. I mean if ZOS wants to treat it like feature then let them have it.
Taking from past experience and ZOS handling things I will never report any kind of exploit, I will use it until they find out since there will not be any penalty and I will keep whatever the hell I will be exploiting.

Cheers.

Turelus

Dexter411 wrote: »

ZOS doesn't care and never will.
No point to report them, no point to open ticket in this case...
Look at forums, there are couple of threads on this topic and there was no response to any of it.

On Sunday(PC EU) out of curiosity I checked Deshaan. 31 bots roaming around doing same stupid things, following same path(recorded all of them). Most of them look like they just finished tutorial, without mundus, 2h, mostly templars.

Now tell me, why I should not start doing it? Why I should not download script, or whatever You need to do. I mean if ZOS wants to treat it like feature then let them have it.
Taking from past experience and ZOS handling things I will never report any kind of exploit, I will use it until they find out since there will not be any penalty and I will keep whatever the hell I will be exploiting.

Cheers.

Lack of community reps posting doesn't mean ZOS doesn't care, it just means they don't post in every single thread to acknowledge it.

You should report them if you want to see them go or want exploits to stop. The more people reporting the more tickets get seen the more action taken.

The problem is the mentality you have is one everyone seems to be doing, thus no one takes action and ZOS have no info any more.

DHale

I reported multiple bot over the last weekend and Monday. I don't think they do anything about them.

Turelus

DHale wrote: »

I reported multiple bot over the last weekend and Monday. I don't think they do anything about them.

Post the ticket numbers.

NewBlacksmurf

2014.....oh wait it’s 2017 and there’s still bots

Turelus

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

2014.....oh wait it’s 2017 and there’s still bots

Won't ever change sadly, no MMO has ever been bot free.

However, we do need something to be done to help us fight and slow their work.

Jeremy

In beta and very early on in this game's career bots were a serious problem.

But I rarely see bots these days. So if it's a serious problem it's not one that I have noticed.

Turelus

Jeremy wrote: »

In beta and very early on in this game's career bots were a serious problem.

But I rarely see bots these days. So if it's a serious problem it's not one that I have noticed.

They're mostly around areas where scraps can be farmed, the days of delve and quest bots are gone.

The beaches where you find a lot of mudcrabs are normally prime places to go and view the activity.

FloppyTouch

I spent a good amount of time reporting 10 bots farming wolfs. I took video and sent in tickets for each bot this was a really fun waste of time. One week later I return to the same spot and guess what same thing going on. The account names where different so maybe ZoS did something but they really need GMs in game that can take care of these people live. Would be much more effective then the report option they have now.

Why should the players have to waste there gaming time doing a job that ZoS should be doing. I didn't buy this game to do ur job. This is out of control. Almost every map where there is fast spawns of wolfs bears I see sorcs heavy attacking and buffing up all at the same time with there pets running around everywhere.

FFS do something it's not my damn job!

Turelus

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I spent a good amount of time reporting 10 bots farming wolfs. I took video and sent in tickets for each bot this was a really fun waste of time. One week later I return to the same spot and guess what same thing going on. The account names where different so maybe ZoS did something but they really need GMs in game that can take care of these people live. Would be much more effective then the report option they have now.

Why should the players have to waste there gaming time doing a job that ZoS should be doing. I didn't buy this game to do ur job. This is out of control. Almost every map where there is fast spawns of wolfs bears I see sorcs heavy attacking and buffing up all at the same time with there pets running around everywhere.

FFS do something it's not my damn job!

The fact the accounts were different is an important bit of information as that is a sign ZOS may actually act on the tickets. However with every MMO as soon as bot accounts are banned those being banned just buy more accounts.
However stopping because of that means they're going to win over all. You can never stop botting 100%, the idea is to make their task as frustrating and unprofitable as possible so their prices are higher and no one buys as much.

Less revenue from the currency, less resources spent on that game.

As I have said every thread and every time we just need.

• Better tools from ZOS (push button, confirm, ticket with all needed info sent)
• Streamlined process at ZOS (ticket lands on desk of someone who can act within 48hr max)
• Community to continue the fight and not give up (report, post ticket numbers, post evidence, keep the pressure on)
• Community to stop supporting botters (stop buying gold/accounts/materials FFS!)

FloppyTouch

Turelus wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I spent a good amount of time reporting 10 bots farming wolfs. I took video and sent in tickets for each bot this was a really fun waste of time. One week later I return to the same spot and guess what same thing going on. The account names where different so maybe ZoS did something but they really need GMs in game that can take care of these people live. Would be much more effective then the report option they have now.

Why should the players have to waste there gaming time doing a job that ZoS should be doing. I didn't buy this game to do ur job. This is out of control. Almost every map where there is fast spawns of wolfs bears I see sorcs heavy attacking and buffing up all at the same time with there pets running around everywhere.

FFS do something it's not my damn job!

The fact the accounts were different is an important bit of information as that is a sign ZOS may actually act on the tickets. However with every MMO as soon as bot accounts are banned those being banned just buy more accounts.
However stopping because of that means they're going to win over all. You can never stop botting 100%, the idea is to make their task as frustrating and unprofitable as possible so their prices are higher and no one buys as much.

Less revenue from the currency, less resources spent on that game.

As I have said every thread and every time we just need.

• Better tools from ZOS (push button, confirm, ticket with all needed info sent)
• Streamlined process at ZOS (ticket lands on desk of someone who can act within 48hr max)
• Community to continue the fight and not give up (report, post ticket numbers, post evidence, keep the pressure on)
• Community to stop supporting botters (stop buying gold/accounts/materials FFS!)

But I shouldn't have to waste my time doing this it took almost an hour for all the accounts it's not our job. I pay to play the game not sit and report that's an issue.

So in short until the process of reporting for bots gets faster or as you say streamline this is a waste of gaming time.

I remember back at the start of pc we had a ton of gold sellers in chat then one day they just all disappeared for awhile too. I have not seen them on xb1 for awhile then all of a sudden chat is filled with gold sellers and bots on almost every map. Maybe they can do what ever it was last time?

Elsonso

Turelus wrote: »

It also doesn't help that because of the apparently apathy from ZOS (which I don't believe is the case) and the communities rumour mongering (see "ZOS benefits from RMT" post earlier in this thread) then people stop reporting and more bots get a free pass.

I stopped reporting them because of ZOS apathy.

In the past, I verified that they do go away, after a while. It is not usually clear whether it is ZOS that banishes them or whether it is just the botter moving the character to a new location. In any case, within 48 hours there is another bot there to replace the one that is gone. The take-away here is that, after waiting several days, a couple weeks, or maybe even a month, for a bot to be removed, it is replaced in a fraction of the time it took to get it removed.

I am reminded of a quote from someone insignificant in the game: "Pointless. Ten anchors drop for each that is destroyed!"

I also noted that bots tended to get priority when someone like Rich Lambert took notice. I don't know whether he holds the club that can influence the people who handle bots or whether he donned a GM account and went out there on his own time and dealt with it. The priority of our bot reports are not even in the same universe. We cannot wait for Lambert to take time out from his busy day to bop people on the head. Like with us, bots are not his job.

What really cemented it for me was that they removed the Bot classification when reporting players and removed the entry point for accessing the ticket system used by some add-ons. I have an add-on that used that, and the only public add-on at the time for reporting bots was also using it. That public add-on was abandoned, and that sounded like the proper course of action for my own, as well.

@Drummerx04 went out and figured out another entry point for opening a ticket and created a new add-on, bless his heart. I wonder how long it will be until ZOS closes that hole in their ticket system, too. Will they remove all access to the ticket system by add-ons, this time? Maybe this was just some innocent and unrelated change. Maybe they were being swamped by bot reports from add-ons and did not want to be. We shall see.

In the end, I know that at one time ZOS was interested in stemming the tide of bots. Since then, actions have indicated that they are not really interested in bot reports.

Jake1576

Short answer is never it's also an issue on ps4 na I've reported the bot trains on there and sent videos in and they are still there 6 months later lmao don't waste your time

Reverb

I reported bots two weekends ago, just outside Redfur Trading Post. A quick post in my trade guild revealed that others had seen them for weeks, and at least a few had reported some. There were 2 groups of them, at least 12 bots total. Last weekend, they were still there. This weekend, they will still be there.

It's not perceived apathy at this point, it's actualized. Zeni did a really, truly great job squashing bots in 2014. They proved they are capable of dealing with the problem quickly, repeatedly, effectively, and openly. They are so far removed from how they handled things then, that (as I said upthread), I can only assume that they openly support bottling and gold selling.

Deheart

To be 100% fair, that while I think Zos has low motivation to deal with the bot situation and always has been slow about taking care of them, Zos does indeed eventually take care of bots and gets rid of them eventually.

I recently realized that ZOS is currently trying to get Clockwork online and they are probably focussing all their efforts on that and probably plan on working on the bot situation afterward. The bot situation seems to have exploded during a time when they are busy during festival times and bringing a new DLC online.

Elsonso

Deheart wrote: »

To be 100% fair, that while I think Zos has low motivation to deal with the bot situation and always has been slow about taking care of them, Zos does indeed eventually take care of bots and gets rid of them eventually.

I recently realized that ZOS is currently trying to get Clockwork online and they are probably focussing all their efforts on that and probably plan on working on the bot situation afterward. The bot situation seems to have exploded during a time when they are busy during festival times and bringing a new DLC online.

You have to realize that there is always a "Clockwork" coming. If they are taking time off bots to do DLC, they will never get back to bots.

Drummerx04

lordrichter wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

It also doesn't help that because of the apparently apathy from ZOS (which I don't believe is the case) and the communities rumour mongering (see "ZOS benefits from RMT" post earlier in this thread) then people stop reporting and more bots get a free pass.

I stopped reporting them because of ZOS apathy.

In the past, I verified that they do go away, after a while. It is not usually clear whether it is ZOS that banishes them or whether it is just the botter moving the character to a new location. In any case, within 48 hours there is another bot there to replace the one that is gone. The take-away here is that, after waiting several days, a couple weeks, or maybe even a month, for a bot to be removed, it is replaced in a fraction of the time it took to get it removed.

I am reminded of a quote from someone insignificant in the game: "Pointless. Ten anchors drop for each that is destroyed!"

I also noted that bots tended to get priority when someone like Rich Lambert took notice. I don't know whether he holds the club that can influence the people who handle bots or whether he donned a GM account and went out there on his own time and dealt with it. The priority of our bot reports are not even in the same universe. We cannot wait for Lambert to take time out from his busy day to bop people on the head. Like with us, bots are not his job.

What really cemented it for me was that they removed the Bot classification when reporting players and removed the entry point for accessing the ticket system used by some add-ons. I have an add-on that used that, and the only public add-on at the time for reporting bots was also using it. That public add-on was abandoned, and that sounded like the proper course of action for my own, as well.

@Drummerx04 went out and figured out another entry point for opening a ticket and created a new add-on, bless his heart. I wonder how long it will be until ZOS closes that hole in their ticket system, too. Will they remove all access to the ticket system by add-ons, this time? Maybe this was just some innocent and unrelated change. Maybe they were being swamped by bot reports from add-ons and did not want to be. We shall see.

In the end, I know that at one time ZOS was interested in stemming the tide of bots. Since then, actions have indicated that they are not really interested in bot reports.

Oh I went hard with the straight GUI control element scripting and even broke into metatables for the ComboBox selection. I'm pretty sure they'll have to shut down or rework a significant portion of the Addon API to prevent my Addon from pelting them with bot reports through their own user interface.

And if they are really willing to go as far as to restructure half of their UI infrastructure just to stop my Addon from working, I'll consider my work a success

Turelus

@lordrichter

I've also noticed that when ZOS developers or community managers get the ticket numbers the bots get nuked, which is why I pester people to post ticket numbers when they can.
I've tagged Rich on Twitter before or passed numbers to Gina to pass on for me, but I'd rather not pester them to get issues solved (especially via something like their Twitter accounts).

I do feel like a broken record at times just constantly saying over and over that ZOS needs better tools and better delivery/handling on their end.

TrinityFlint

And again, thanks for that add on @Drummerx04 . I've got zero programming skills but a whole lot of wrath against bot trains.

ProfessorKittyhawk

I remember back when the game first came out in 2014 there were bots farming the farm near the beginning of Rivenspire. I was still new and and had never played an mmo before so I didn't really know what the deal was. All I know is that I went around grinding and then all of a sudden... Everything stopped moving. Froze. Few second later everyone in the area, including me, died. I resurrected. No one else did. It was only later that I learned about bots and that GMs could do what I described above to strike them down. Those who resurrect are obviously players. Those that don't are bots.

I get the feeling that, given the rising bot outbreak, there aren't as many GMs as there were back then to do things like that wherever bots may be. I like to think that they are working on something behind the scenes to deal with the bot situation. One can hope right?

NewBlacksmurf

Turelus wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

2014.....oh wait it’s 2017 and there’s still bots

Won't ever change sadly, no MMO has ever been bot free.

However, we do need something to be done to help us fight and slow their work.

@Turelus
I was being sarcastic but technically speaking there have been games without bots. If they wanted to stop them, just like if they wanted to fix bugs, not release content with bugs, quality check prior to release....they could but it’s a lack of desire and a lack of intention.

No disrespect to the developers, they are capable folks. I’ve learned over the years, it’s not that they can’t, it’s that they don’t.

Let’s comprehend, surely we don’t believe non ZOS developers know more about this game than the developers who’ve been there since 2010-2012. Let’s also give credit to staff who has moved on who may or may not have aided in add-On as well as maybe information that’s led to bots. They have private investors who are in this for the money....I don’t know any of them but surely they are doing all they can to remain profitable. Literally all they can...

I recall one dev released a ton of code prior to console release. I also recall unnamed guilds being in a great uproar over the UI and add-on limitations during closed beta who openly expressed their intent to make ZOS pay. That guild got me the pre order at a discount. Shrug...funny how that worked out

That’s stuff among other things....good staff and leaders left to work for other good DeVs. I mean, it’s bigger than bots