So, do argonians posses mammal features?

teiselaise

Cool guys, deep answers i think atleast i will conclude for myself that they dont have mammal stuff,

and yeah, the game dont have to follow any of our rules, tho, unless the devs are really twisted, i think it safe to say that the milk from cows (we know cow milk exists ingame) are used for breastfeeding there calves and not used for drowning kittens etc.

Storymaster

My wife, an artist and by extension an anatomist, has long expressed that it makes no sense for Argonian females to have breasts, a mammalian feature.

Clearly Argonians were designed way back in the day this way for the human player to better identify with concepts of human sexual dimorphism. It's just one of those things where we're going to have to suspend our disbelief and dovetail some lore explanation. What would be cool is if the Argonians had a more realistic take, where only nuances diffrentiated between a male or female, or perhaps coloring or flared spines for whichever sex is supposed to attract the other.

Myyth

if they do, i dont want to know about it

Bobby_V_Rockit

Well, they appear to have an evolutionary analogue of titties...

EvilCroc

I just hope their females do not have cloaca instead of... you know, normal stuff. Otherwise it would be too creepy for me.

srfrogg23

I think it’s probably just more efficient from a development standpoint to re-skin the standard male/female character models and simply create unique heads for the argonians, as opposed to creating whole different bodies for the character models.

Realistically, I would imagine them as being more androgynous since they’re egg laying reptiles. My mental work-around for that is “fictional species”.

AlwaysOnFire

For all we know, argonian breasts may merely be deposits of fat suitable for the energy needs of devoting more resources to providing for children-- who knows how many assumed-to-be 'male' argonians develop breasts like 'ugh, the cycle of the hist assumes I want eggs" or something, or how many argonians assumed-to-be-'female' lose theirs when they're like "nah, I actually didn't have kids."

(Granted, I'd prefer no gender of Argonian have breasts, but that Fantasy Species Aesthetic I guess dies hard)

victoriana-blue

We're on the second page, and still no jokes about Argonians having "mammary features"? For shame.

Tommy_The_Gun

Well... even in eso there is an obscure piece of lore that well... tells us that argonians should not posses mammal features...
There is a book that you can steal & fence called "Erotic Argonian Etchings"

"A set of limited-edition etchings of Argonian erotica. It is impossible to discern the gender of the participants."
http://esoitem.uesp.net/itemLink.php?&itemid=61231&level=1&quality=2

So if it says that is impossible to distinguish gender "features" then.. well...
btw. on the other hand when I loot this book as an argonian character then technically I should be able to distinguish this right ?
It is weird...
Perhaps it is only designed that way so we, players could distinguish this ?

Yarlenzey

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

platypus?

LOL. I forgot that one. Also, echidnas, I think.


Monotremes. Egg laying marsupials. Mammary glands are inside the pouch.
This is where we came from. Not a tree

Serjustin19

I don't think I should. But last time I checked, Lizards where supposed to be cold blooded?

Enslaved wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Hatch out of eggs. Drink milk. You know, like ...
Um ...

platypus?

Manatee? Aka: Mermaids

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manatee





Wait I just realized, if Argonian's (Lizard) are cold blooded. How could they become good at healing and other things. Especially when no sun even in some of Dark dungeons?

Iselin

Yes. They're Monotremes.

TheShadowScout

Recremen wrote: »

My own take on it is that argonian "female-looking" forms don't serve a biological purpose, but a mytho-aesthetic one. Essentially, masculine and feminine shapes are of divine origin and all that biology stuff gets slapped on later when the gods felt like getting creative. We can see this with how the gods and daedra themselves are portrayed, having various iconic features associated with particular human sexes, despite probably not actually needing them at all.

Pretty good argument.
Why do dremora females have breasts? Seeing how all daedra generally are considered not exactly being born, but... existing as spirits, and coalesce into physical being from ambient organic matter when they feel like it? (or course, we all know exactly why dremora decided to have them... they do enjoy imitating mortals after all, its their amusement, so they would pay attention to the "fun" parts, just in case they get the idea to use them that way)

For argonians... I have to agree, those fleshly mounds on their females chests make no sense, and it would have been better if the powers that be left all female argonians flat as a board because lizard! Sadly... paths not taken.

Mystrius_Archaion

ArchMikem wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Seriously?
You're all discussing real life anatomy to try to apply it to this game where they gave cat-people that still have litters like real life cats humanoid breasts and not multiple mammary glands to better feed the litter of cubs?

This game has it so wrong that you're better off just not caring.

Litter is just a cultural word for Children, I don't believe they have ACTUAL Litters at once.

Litter is plural. They do have a word for a singular child. I believe it is often referred to as "ja-khaijiit"? And anyway, they're speaking english, even if they gave it a fancy in game name. English definitions of words apply or they would have made up a new word like "khaijiit" and "altmer" and all other examples.

Yeah? And Children is plural. If they have more than one child they can refer to them all as the Litter, but think about it, these Khajiit are practically Humans with tails, it's physically impossible for their bodies to normally give birth to the numbers a feral cat can.

You never saw even an advertisement for a tv show around one of those families with several children born at once have you? Even humans give birth to more than one child at a time often enough.

But more importantly, you used another example of separate words meaning separate things to try to explain litter as a singular and ended up proving my point more. They would not use children to describe a single child nor the word child to describe multiple children as a group. Litter is and always will be plural in all contexts.


But seriously, they based this on cats, and they are closely related to the senche tigers in game which are even more realistic and definitely have litters.
They definitely should have less humanoid features, but this isn't exactly a well thought out world. Either that or somebody really wanted some lizard/cat/pig/man action and we're just lucky they didn't try to mix a horse in there. Ouch!

Mystrius_Archaion

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Argonians breathe water, as well, so plainly they don't follow all the rules of reptiles.

Amphibians.

Mystrius_Archaion

EvilCroc wrote: »

I just hope their females do not have cloaca instead of... you know, normal stuff. Otherwise it would be too creepy for me.

Must...resist...the urge to google! Blue waffle flashbacks.../gag

ArchMikem

AlwaysOnFire wrote: »

(Granted, I'd prefer no gender of Argonian have breasts, but that Fantasy Species Aesthetic I guess dies hard)

If you put the Breast slider ALL the way left on an Argonian it does practically look like the Breasts are completely absent, that's a way to stay "immersive" if you want, even if it only applies to you. Then again a majority of the Argonian NPCs have the same kind of very small Breast size as well, only few exceptions here and there where they're more prominent.

Conduit0

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Seriously?
You're all discussing real life anatomy to try to apply it to this game where they gave cat-people that still have litters like real life cats humanoid breasts and not multiple mammary glands to better feed the litter of cubs?

This game has it so wrong that you're better off just not caring.

Litter is just a cultural word for Children, I don't believe they have ACTUAL Litters at once.

Litter is plural. They do have a word for a singular child. I believe it is often referred to as "ja-khaijiit"? And anyway, they're speaking english, even if they gave it a fancy in game name. English definitions of words apply or they would have made up a new word like "khaijiit" and "altmer" and all other examples.

Yeah? And Children is plural. If they have more than one child they can refer to them all as the Litter, but think about it, these Khajiit are practically Humans with tails, it's physically impossible for their bodies to normally give birth to the numbers a feral cat can.

You never saw even an advertisement for a tv show around one of those families with several children born at once have you? Even humans give birth to more than one child at a time often enough.

But more importantly, you used another example of separate words meaning separate things to try to explain litter as a singular and ended up proving my point more. They would not use children to describe a single child nor the word child to describe multiple children as a group. Litter is and always will be plural in all contexts.


But seriously, they based this on cats, and they are closely related to the senche tigers in game which are even more realistic and definitely have litters.
They definitely should have less humanoid features, but this isn't exactly a well thought out world. Either that or somebody really wanted some lizard/cat/pig/man action and we're just lucky they didn't try to mix a horse in there. Ouch!

The kahjiit are not cats that evolved into humanoids, they are elven were-cats, but unlike other were-animals the khajiit's form is set at the moment of birth and is based on the phase of the moons. There are 17 known varieties of khajiit, which range from the Ohmes, which lack any cat like features and are indistinguishable from bosmer, to the senche-raht which are fully quadrupedal and large enough to be ridden as mounts. They use the term litter because the khajiit are obsessed with their own "catness", they also use the term paws even though the cathay(the playable kahjiit) have humanoid hands and feet.

newtinmpls

Okay, I do like the mytho-poetic argument.

I also like the Platypus/Monotreme information.

As for how many kittens do Khajiit have; well, my understanding is that on average mom's with "nursing bits" have roughly twice as many "nursing bits" as the average size of litter. So for human shaped ones - a "litter" is usually one. Maybe for the more Senche shaped ones, they have 6 or 8 or 10 and the average litter is higher.

If Argonians are (or could be seen to be) sorta based on Monotremes, then they wouldn't have *** per se, but just generally sort of "secrete" leaving way open the number (and perhaps the original size) of the eggs.

I like this kind of exploration

I don't need a definitive answer, I very much appreciate all the good thoughts.

edited to find some weird way to say ... well I can't say it now, can I?

Azurya

perhaps ZOS should nerf this to and let those races walk on all 4 again?
Is it that what you want?

newtinmpls

Azurya wrote: »

perhaps ZOS should nerf this to and let those races walk on all 4 again?
Is it that what you want?

Is it just me, or do Daedrat's look like they are kinda bipedal-ish, only crawling....

LMar

You know , if the Hist produce creatures to collect information about their world then it makes sense to produce creatures that look like the rest of the sentient creatures. Feels more familiar even if it has scales and tails.

Alternatively, egg sacks xD. But i am only joking, right?

Darkhorse1975

Perhaps a future DLC or Chapter that features Blackmarsh will introduce a new uniquely Argonian vendor NPC: Breast Augmentator? Female Argonians players can buy "upgrades" with increasing amounts of gold like bank/bag upgrades or a 20 hour cooldown like riding skill upgrades?

Serjustin19

I had a thought, in a way argonians could be a Mammals. I do believe Argonians really decendent of Dragons and or Dragon Kin. I believe so very much, I'm unsure if I want to make a 13the character and grind. To make Argonian Dragon.

Or a Wyrm and or other Dragon Kin. Argonian are scaly, Argonians have tails. Some has Horns, some don't. Some have wings, some don't. But if one resembles a Dk wings on and Argonian than and only then can be classified as a mammal.

Least me thinks. But they still have eggs, just like chickens. Chickens are mammals (among other things) are they Not? I let you all decide.

rhapsodious

Lizard titty is an abomination and must be stopped.

Ilsabet

Chickens are birds. Not mammals.

Asardes

They lay eggs, but they also have breasts. So they must be some kind of montreme mammal, rather than reptile, like others have suggested as well. From historic accounts it seems that the Saxhleel and Hist are the only native Tamrielic races, Elves having come at some point which then split (Ayelid, Altmer, Bosmer, Dunmer, Orsimer, Falmer) , and the humans: Nedes which also split (Nords, Imperials, Bretons) and Redguards even later in history. So that makes Tamriel somewhat like ... Australia. Also the size of that eggs doesn't really fit the size of the Argonian hind quarters so laying them must be really painful

Serjustin19

So, I found 2 articles. 1 for Lizards. It's actually very graphic and not appropriate to post on forum. But it does explain good things.

The 2ND however explains kinda as to why, Argonians have. 1 in particular suggested Bethesda was so lazy, that Bethesda would've make 3 different armors for argonians. But it's mostly due to armor conflict in link below.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:386715

X_LadyPhoenix_X

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Hatch out of eggs. Drink milk. You know, like ...
Um ...

Well, Argonians are pretty unique in that regard.

Uh, platypus... just sayin'.

stevepdodson_ESO888

boobies