DW /Resto Magica Dragonknight

Lord_Etrigan

Hi guys,

I have always been a sorc and love the play style.

I have a Dark elf magica DK that i want to use for PVP but need some help. I have looked at utube and everyone seems to be running S/B (not my play style)

My goal:

To push as much max DPS as possible using fire and magica whilst still being able to sustain.

Thinking of DW and resto/Inferno.

Is this viable for my goal and what sets and setup would you recommend?

AverageJo3Gam3r

In a group where you can mist form behind allies when you get focused, this setup works fine. Or drop the resto for a destro for 100% more eye of the storm. With dragon blood you don't need a resto. But...solo open world or solo queue BGs, this build will get wrecked. You have no escape and no defenses. MDKs don't have the burst of sorcs so you can't simply shield stack then turn and blow someone up with curse+frag+fury combo.

Lord_Etrigan

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

In a group where you can mist form behind allies when you get focused, this setup works fine. Or drop the resto for a destro for 100% more eye of the storm. With dragon blood you don't need a resto. But...solo open world or solo queue BGs, this build will get wrecked. You have no escape and no defenses. MDKs don't have the burst of sorcs so you can't simply shield stack then turn and blow someone up with curse+frag+fury combo.

Thank you for the response, you given me something to think about.
Should I then maybe go sword and board front with destructo rear and use shield ulti for ooh *** moments

NBrookus

Lord_Etrigan wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

In a group where you can mist form behind allies when you get focused, this setup works fine. Or drop the resto for a destro for 100% more eye of the storm. With dragon blood you don't need a resto. But...solo open world or solo queue BGs, this build will get wrecked. You have no escape and no defenses. MDKs don't have the burst of sorcs so you can't simply shield stack then turn and blow someone up with curse+frag+fury combo.

Thank you for the response, you given me something to think about.
Should I then maybe go sword and board front with destructo rear and use shield ulti for ooh *** moments

Since DKs primary mitigation is blocking, having at least one S&B bar allows you to spec a little more into damage but fall back on defense when necessary, and DK skills can be block casted. Hence the qq about "permablock" DKs, but true permablocking requires significant investment. The best DKs are proficient at walking the line between blocking lots of damage and dropping block enough for regen.

Dual S&B allows you to spec higher into damage while retaining the 1H defense and extra set piece, but you can't regen magicka with heavy attacks, so you have to account for that. You have to pace your ultimates and expect to pop potions on cooldown for dual S&B while having enough damage to still be able to kill.

DW/S&B is a little more offensive -- DW swords just for the extra spell damage from Twin Blade & Blunt while retaining the extra set piece. Again, no magicka regen available from heavy attacks. But it's the burstiest way to melee mDK and can be pretty lethal in a small group with support.

S&B/resto or destro solves the magicka regen problem, but you'll be squishier on that bar and be more careful about when you swap. S&B/destro works, but it's mostly for having the destro ult on the back bar. DKs are fundamentally melee and low mobility; you can't really stay at range and use destro as a primary dps tool (outside of large groups that is.)

Lord_Etrigan

NBrookus wrote: »

Lord_Etrigan wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

In a group where you can mist form behind allies when you get focused, this setup works fine. Or drop the resto for a destro for 100% more eye of the storm. With dragon blood you don't need a resto. But...solo open world or solo queue BGs, this build will get wrecked. You have no escape and no defenses. MDKs don't have the burst of sorcs so you can't simply shield stack then turn and blow someone up with curse+frag+fury combo.

Thank you for the response, you given me something to think about.
Should I then maybe go sword and board front with destructo rear and use shield ulti for ooh *** moments

Since DKs primary mitigation is blocking, having at least one S&B bar allows you to spec a little more into damage but fall back on defense when necessary, and DK skills can be block casted. Hence the qq about "permablock" DKs, but true permablocking requires significant investment. The best DKs are proficient at walking the line between blocking lots of damage and dropping block enough for regen.

Dual S&B allows you to spec higher into damage while retaining the 1H defense and extra set piece, but you can't regen magicka with heavy attacks, so you have to account for that. You have to pace your ultimates and expect to pop potions on cooldown for dual S&B while having enough damage to still be able to kill.

DW/S&B is a little more offensive -- DW swords just for the extra spell damage from Twin Blade & Blunt while retaining the extra set piece. Again, no magicka regen available from heavy attacks. But it's the burstiest way to melee mDK and can be pretty lethal in a small group with support.

S&B/resto or destro solves the magicka regen problem, but you'll be squishier on that bar and be more careful about when you swap. S&B/destro works, but it's mostly for having the destro ult on the back bar. DKs are fundamentally melee and low mobility; you can't really stay at range and use destro as a primary dps tool (outside of large groups that is.)

I'm leaning towards S/B front and Destruction rear for the following reasons:

Cyro has become a place OF 4-X vs 1 and usally they are in your face.

So my thinking is with the help of the Grothdar Monster set is to open with light attack destruction staff( Spell damage Glyph) and structured entropy (20% spell damage), drop eye of the storm, swap to shield, activate deep breath and with combo of snares whip anyone left standing.

That way I can keep the damage area around me whilst still maintaining defence via blocking with shield.

I'm also thinking 5x Sun (Increase fire damage) but not sure if I should go V Death or Shakel as the second set.

NBrookus

Sun + Shackle is a popular and solid combo.

I personally don't like Grothdarr as it doesn't hit very hard at all and feel Skoria and Bloodspawn are better choices.

Lord_Etrigan

NBrookus wrote: »

Sun + Shackle is a popular and solid combo.

I personally don't like Grothdarr as it doesn't hit very hard at all and feel Skoria and Bloodspawn are better choices.

I tried the Sun+Shackle combo last night and found some sustain issues even with Witchmother.
Especially when I'm applying pressure to more than one target when taking a keep as you are often required to defend incoming attacks from all sides, it could however be a L/P on my part as I'm still getting used to playing DK.

I’m strongly thinking of dropping shackle and slotting the old but reliable seducer as it will help with sustain and reduce the cost of my now fav ability "Flame Lash".

The other issue I found using Witchmother is that since I'm all magica based my stamina pool is low even with shackle and trying to break free from snares or roll dodge those annoying spamming pigeons from the wardens can drain your stam very quickly. (By the way imagine my surprise finding out the hard way that my wings don't reflect them damn birds. lol)

NBrookus

Resource management is tough on mDK. Seducer is less attractive since we got a few skill cost reductions. I'm a big fan of tri-glyphs to get stam up to 13-14kish.

Are you in light or heavy, and how much regen are you running?

Lord_Etrigan

NBrookus wrote: »

Resource management is tough on mDK. Seducer is less attractive since we got a few skill cost reductions. I'm a big fan of tri-glyphs to get stam up to 13-14kish.

Are you in light or heavy, and how much regen are you running?

I'm at work at the moment so can't looks but yes I'm running all light and divine with Atronach stone and I'm a vamp.
Was thinking of tri-glyphhs but was worried that it might reduce max magica and so doing harm my spell damage.

Maybe I'm approaching this to much from a sorc perspective as I always tried to push max magica for spell damage and not from a DK point of view were they already have huge DPS and just need to focus to resource management.

NBrookus

You don't get the redundant benefits of stacking max magicka on DK like you do on sorc. I played with a max magicka (52k) DK build for a while a couple of patchs ago; I got some huge burst damage numbers of out it but I had to give up so much survivability it wasn't for me. I know a few DKs that tried something similar; none of them stuck with it but you CAN make it work.

Your typical CP mDK pvp build right now has about 35-40k mag, 13-15k stam and ~25k health, and can sustain on about 1500-1600 effective mag recovery (counting set regen procs or Constitution or whatever other sources) by pacing and alternating potions and ultimates. Or less; I often run in the 1200-1300 range but it's rough if the fight drags on. That said -- if you need more sustain while you are learning to mDK, run it. Being dead because you are out of resources is not educational. If keep defense in big battles is your thing, Choking Talons + Deep Breath is a good force multiplier if you have countersiege and good DPS'ers nearby but it's really expensive to keep up. Bigger group v. group fights need more regen, IMO.

The cost of destro ult might be what's pinching your recovery here; you have to go a long time before Battle Roar gives you any resources back.

DKs might run infused on large pieces to buff the stats from tri-glyphs but otherwise impen or sturdy. Crit resist is very important.

If you like Whip... you might really like Leap.

If you haven't discovered the UESP Build Editor, give it a try: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor

The other issue I found using Witchmother is that since I'm all magica based my stamina pool is low even with shackle and trying to break free from snares or roll dodge those annoying spamming pigeons from the wardens can drain your stam very quickly. (By the way imagine my surprise finding out the hard way that my wings don't reflect them damn birds. lol)

You can't dodge pigeons either; save your stamina.

Emmagoldman

Right now im trying rattlecage/bsw destro/restro. I proc bsw with fire glyph, engulging flames and talons, and switch to front bar. With the free space i either use fob or elemntal drain

Gan Xing

Throwing out my 2 cents...

I run a hybrid dunmer DK. 2h and destro. This set up allows me to have a better gap closer, and an execute.

I'm using 5 Pelinial, 4 Affliction, 2 Grothdar (instead of 5 affliction, 1 domihaus). I have 31k magicka, 23k health (in cyrodiil), and 20k stam (mind you all this is with CP).


In otherwords, if you want to try something interesting, this set up might give you something to think about.

I know that in the current Meta, some magDK are doing Seducer + BSW... so more to consider