Kags Hope v.s Shackelbreaker For Mag DK

oburn

Currently I'm running 5 piece silks of the sun set, jewelry, sword and board and resto staff. 2 Monster sets I use and swap out are Blood Spawn and Skoria. Right now I'm running 5 heavy piece Kags Hope. I really like the silks of the sun set, and since I have it I might as well use it lol. So I'm building around that and now I'm wondering if 5 Shackle would be better. I runo mostly group pvp with the guild, open world and Imp City.

Anyone run similar builds or have used both Kags and Shackle.

Any other suggestions would be great. My patience with farming in this game is at a all time low right now LOL. Dungeon set farming is exhausting and after playing MMO's now since 1997 with UO(Ultima Online) back in the day and every other MMO since, after a few decades of farming for BiS you start to lose your love for MMO's. Now I'm more interested in just playing and enjoying the game. Crafted sets give us old vets enough of what we need to just be able to play and have fun.

So any thoughts on the 2 sets?

Maulkin

In my opinion Kags Hope + Sun Silk is not giving you enough sustain in Heavy Armor. I would swap Kags for Shackle like most people have done.

Also since your damage abilities scale form Spell Damage and Max Magicka the extra ~100 Spell Damage in Kags is not much different from the extra ~1k Max Magicka you get form Shackle. So you get very similar damage for better sustain.

The problem with Silks of the Sun is that the spell damage is applied to flame damage abilities only. Which means all your heals are not buffed. That resto staff you're carrying around gets no buffs from it.

You said you don't wanna farm, but if you changed your mind then going for Burning Spell Weave is the right choice. Shackle + BSW is very potent. And you can pick either raw stats with your monster sets (Domi + Shadowrend/Bloodspawn) or go for Skoria.

I think Blobs has put a build up on youtube which is basically that. He called it Balrog's Revenge or something similar. Have a look.

AverageJo3Gam3r

The advantage of shacklebreaker is it frees you up to run witchmothers potent brew. The extra stam from shacklebreaker makes up for not running tristat food.

oburn

Maulkin wrote: »

In my opinion Kags Hope + Sun Silk is not giving you enough sustain in Heavy Armor. I would swap Kags for Shackle like most people have done.

Also since your damage abilities scale form Spell Damage and Max Magicka the extra ~100 Spell Damage in Kags is not much different from the extra ~1k Max Magicka you get form Shackle. So you get very similar damage for better sustain.

The problem with Silks of the Sun is that the spell damage is applied to flame damage abilities only. Which means all your heals are not buffed. That resto staff you're carrying around gets no buffs from it.

You said you don't wanna farm, but if you changed your mind then going for Burning Spell Weave is the right choice. Shackle + BSW is very potent. And you can pick either raw stats with your monster sets (Domi + Shadowrend/Bloodspawn) or go for Skoria.

I think Blobs has put a build up on youtube which is basically that. He called it Balrog's Revenge or something similar. Have a look.

Yeah I see what you mean about silks. I saw Blobs video, I might consider trying to farm BSW.

I bought the silk of sun set for a build I was running with skoria and kags.

Would going 5 Shackle/2 Blood/3 Will Power/2 Torgs be any better? Or just swap out Kags and run Shackle for now until I can farm BSW?

Maulkin

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

The advantage of shacklebreaker is it frees you up to run witchmothers potent brew. The extra stam from shacklebreaker makes up for not running tristat food.

Yep, a very important point too.

oburn wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

In my opinion Kags Hope + Sun Silk is not giving you enough sustain in Heavy Armor. I would swap Kags for Shackle like most people have done.

Also since your damage abilities scale form Spell Damage and Max Magicka the extra ~100 Spell Damage in Kags is not much different from the extra ~1k Max Magicka you get form Shackle. So you get very similar damage for better sustain.

The problem with Silks of the Sun is that the spell damage is applied to flame damage abilities only. Which means all your heals are not buffed. That resto staff you're carrying around gets no buffs from it.

You said you don't wanna farm, but if you changed your mind then going for Burning Spell Weave is the right choice. Shackle + BSW is very potent. And you can pick either raw stats with your monster sets (Domi + Shadowrend/Bloodspawn) or go for Skoria.

I think Blobs has put a build up on youtube which is basically that. He called it Balrog's Revenge or something similar. Have a look.

Yeah I see what you mean about silks. I saw Blobs video, I might consider trying to farm BSW.

I bought the silk of sun set for a build I was running with skoria and kags.

Would going 5 Shackle/2 Blood/3 Will Power/2 Torgs be any better? Or just swap out Kags and run Shackle for now until I can farm BSW?

I'm not really sure about your finances and stuff, but crafting a purple Shackle set to try it out seems the obvious choice. Very little hassle and cost compared to anything else. Worth it for experimentation alone.

Regarding BSW and the whole farming thing... whichever way you go, you're gonna need to farm some stuff to get BiS. So that's something you'll have to decide if it's worth it or not. But before you start farming BSW, it might be worth waiting for the new DLC to see how the meta shifts.

For example, BSW is very nice and all but there's a new set added called with Clockwork City called Innate Axiom with the following bonuses.

Innate Axiom (All)
(2) 1029 Max Magicka
(3) 1029 Max Stamina
(4) 833 Spell Critical
(4) 833 Weapon Critical
(5) Adds 400 Spell and Weapon Damage to your Class abilities.

If you plan to play S&B on both bars with Dragon Leap as Ultie, like Blobs' build, then literally all the abilities (heals or damage) are getting a 400 Spell Damage buff. Which is constant, does not rely on procs, is more on average than the 66% * 525 you'll get with BSW and you trade 129 spell damage for 1k extra Stamina (which can be offset elsewhere).

So in the next patch, I'd be tempted to try Amber Plasm with Innate Axiom and see how it performs. Which means farming Amber Plasm.

So yeah, if you're determined to go farm BiS maybe wait for the new DLC to drop. Make sure your farming time is not wasted.

oburn

Maulkin wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

The advantage of shacklebreaker is it frees you up to run witchmothers potent brew. The extra stam from shacklebreaker makes up for not running tristat food.

Yep, a very important point too.

oburn wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

In my opinion Kags Hope + Sun Silk is not giving you enough sustain in Heavy Armor. I would swap Kags for Shackle like most people have done.

Also since your damage abilities scale form Spell Damage and Max Magicka the extra ~100 Spell Damage in Kags is not much different from the extra ~1k Max Magicka you get form Shackle. So you get very similar damage for better sustain.

The problem with Silks of the Sun is that the spell damage is applied to flame damage abilities only. Which means all your heals are not buffed. That resto staff you're carrying around gets no buffs from it.

You said you don't wanna farm, but if you changed your mind then going for Burning Spell Weave is the right choice. Shackle + BSW is very potent. And you can pick either raw stats with your monster sets (Domi + Shadowrend/Bloodspawn) or go for Skoria.

I think Blobs has put a build up on youtube which is basically that. He called it Balrog's Revenge or something similar. Have a look.

Yeah I see what you mean about silks. I saw Blobs video, I might consider trying to farm BSW.

I bought the silk of sun set for a build I was running with skoria and kags.

Would going 5 Shackle/2 Blood/3 Will Power/2 Torgs be any better? Or just swap out Kags and run Shackle for now until I can farm BSW?

I'm not really sure about your finances and stuff, but crafting a purple Shackle set to try it out seems the obvious choice. Very little hassle and cost compared to anything else. Worth it for experimentation alone.

Regarding BSW and the whole farming thing... whichever way you go, you're gonna need to farm some stuff to get BiS. So that's something you'll have to decide if it's worth it or not. But before you start farming BSW, it might be worth waiting for the new DLC to see how the meta shifts.

For example, BSW is very nice and all but there's a new set added called with Clockwork City called Innate Axiom with the following bonuses.

Innate Axiom (All)
(2) 1029 Max Magicka
(3) 1029 Max Stamina
(4) 833 Spell Critical
(4) 833 Weapon Critical
(5) Adds 400 Spell and Weapon Damage to your Class abilities.

If you plan to play S&B on both bars with Dragon Leap as Ultie, like Blobs' build, then literally all the abilities (heals or damage) are getting a 400 Spell Damage buff. Which is constant, does not rely on procs, is more on average than the 66% * 525 you'll get with BSW and you trade 129 spell damage for 1k extra Stamina (which can be offset elsewhere).

So in the next patch, I'd be tempted to try Amber Plasm with Innate Axiom and see how it performs. Which means farming Amber Plasm.

So yeah, if you're determined to go farm BiS maybe wait for the new DLC to drop. Make sure your farming time is not wasted.

Hmm, interesting set for sure. I'm only back to the game now for a few weeks, been gone for over a year so I dont have tons of gold atm. I even went and got a race change to turn my orc stamplar into a high elf templar for healing to do some farming. The ques even for a healer can be long when choosing a specifc dungeon to que for. Problem is, I'm still working on my Spellpower Cure and Worm cult set. I have the 5 pieces bonus in each, but not the right traits so It makes some vet dungeons a pain in the ass lol.

Brutusmax1mus

oburn wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

In my opinion Kags Hope + Sun Silk is not giving you enough sustain in Heavy Armor. I would swap Kags for Shackle like most people have done.

Also since your damage abilities scale form Spell Damage and Max Magicka the extra ~100 Spell Damage in Kags is not much different from the extra ~1k Max Magicka you get form Shackle. So you get very similar damage for better sustain.

The problem with Silks of the Sun is that the spell damage is applied to flame damage abilities only. Which means all your heals are not buffed. That resto staff you're carrying around gets no buffs from it.

You said you don't wanna farm, but if you changed your mind then going for Burning Spell Weave is the right choice. Shackle + BSW is very potent. And you can pick either raw stats with your monster sets (Domi + Shadowrend/Bloodspawn) or go for Skoria.

I think Blobs has put a build up on youtube which is basically that. He called it Balrog's Revenge or something similar. Have a look.

Yeah I see what you mean about silks. I saw Blobs video, I might consider trying to farm BSW.

I bought the silk of sun set for a build I was running with skoria and kags.

Would going 5 Shackle/2 Blood/3 Will Power/2 Torgs be any better? Or just swap out Kags and run Shackle for now until I can farm BSW?

You should get almost all your healing from power lash and embers. Both of which are directly affected by sun. Shackle / sun with duel snb is awesome.

Maulkin

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

oburn wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

In my opinion Kags Hope + Sun Silk is not giving you enough sustain in Heavy Armor. I would swap Kags for Shackle like most people have done.

Also since your damage abilities scale form Spell Damage and Max Magicka the extra ~100 Spell Damage in Kags is not much different from the extra ~1k Max Magicka you get form Shackle. So you get very similar damage for better sustain.

The problem with Silks of the Sun is that the spell damage is applied to flame damage abilities only. Which means all your heals are not buffed. That resto staff you're carrying around gets no buffs from it.

You said you don't wanna farm, but if you changed your mind then going for Burning Spell Weave is the right choice. Shackle + BSW is very potent. And you can pick either raw stats with your monster sets (Domi + Shadowrend/Bloodspawn) or go for Skoria.

I think Blobs has put a build up on youtube which is basically that. He called it Balrog's Revenge or something similar. Have a look.

Yeah I see what you mean about silks. I saw Blobs video, I might consider trying to farm BSW.

I bought the silk of sun set for a build I was running with skoria and kags.

Would going 5 Shackle/2 Blood/3 Will Power/2 Torgs be any better? Or just swap out Kags and run Shackle for now until I can farm BSW?

You should get almost all your healing from power lash and embers. Both of which are directly affected by sun. Shackle / sun with duel snb is awesome.

Completely disagree with that statement.

You are basically telling me that if you are getting heat and you manage to get LOS protection you have no heals to bring your health back up? Your only way of healing is to stay aggressive? It's not always viable to stay aggressive. Unless you have a pocket healer you need a heal when no target is in sight. Actually, even if you have a pocket healer, you still need it.

Not to mention that when you are getting hammered by many people, Draw Essence is your best heal and that is Magic Damage not affected by Sun Silk.

oburn

Maulkin wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

oburn wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

In my opinion Kags Hope + Sun Silk is not giving you enough sustain in Heavy Armor. I would swap Kags for Shackle like most people have done.

Also since your damage abilities scale form Spell Damage and Max Magicka the extra ~100 Spell Damage in Kags is not much different from the extra ~1k Max Magicka you get form Shackle. So you get very similar damage for better sustain.

The problem with Silks of the Sun is that the spell damage is applied to flame damage abilities only. Which means all your heals are not buffed. That resto staff you're carrying around gets no buffs from it.

You said you don't wanna farm, but if you changed your mind then going for Burning Spell Weave is the right choice. Shackle + BSW is very potent. And you can pick either raw stats with your monster sets (Domi + Shadowrend/Bloodspawn) or go for Skoria.

I think Blobs has put a build up on youtube which is basically that. He called it Balrog's Revenge or something similar. Have a look.

Yeah I see what you mean about silks. I saw Blobs video, I might consider trying to farm BSW.

I bought the silk of sun set for a build I was running with skoria and kags.

Would going 5 Shackle/2 Blood/3 Will Power/2 Torgs be any better? Or just swap out Kags and run Shackle for now until I can farm BSW?

You should get almost all your healing from power lash and embers. Both of which are directly affected by sun. Shackle / sun with duel snb is awesome.

Completely disagree with that statement.

You are basically telling me that if you are getting heat and you manage to get LOS protection you have no heals to bring your health back up? Your only way of healing is to stay aggressive? It's not always viable to stay aggressive. Unless you have a pocket healer you need a heal when no target is in sight. Actually, even if you have a pocket healer, you still need it.

Not to mention that when you are getting hammered by many people, Draw Essence is your best heal and that is Magic Damage not affected by Sun Silk.

I've been farming all day, got the purple jewlery, 1 weapon so far and 1 shield but it has training on it lol. 20 runs through so far.

Here is a question though, if I'm s/b and resto, my heals are on back bar so they wouldn't get the 5 piece bonus?

Maulkin

oburn wrote: »

I've been farming all day, got the purple jewlery, 1 weapon so far and 1 shield but it has training on it lol. 20 runs through so far.

Here is a question though, if I'm s/b and resto, my heals are on back bar so they wouldn't get the 5 piece bonus?

First you tell me you don't want hassle or farming... then you go and no-life the dungeon

Anyhow, when the set procs you gain 525 spell damage for 8 seconds. You don't lose that if you swap bars or anything, once it procs.. it procs. What resto staff are you running?

Getting good traits on Sword and Shield is very tricky. I'd keep the shield for now and maybe transmute it next patch. But you still need to farm a good trait sword, it's very important, so you might drop a good shield in the process.

With 20 dungeon runs you must have easily acquired money and mats to make a heavy shackle set too, right?

oburn

Maulkin wrote: »

oburn wrote: »

I've been farming all day, got the purple jewlery, 1 weapon so far and 1 shield but it has training on it lol. 20 runs through so far.

Here is a question though, if I'm s/b and resto, my heals are on back bar so they wouldn't get the 5 piece bonus?

First you tell me you don't want hassle or farming... then you go and no-life the dungeon

Anyhow, when the set procs you gain 525 spell damage for 8 seconds. You don't lose that if you swap bars or anything, once it procs.. it procs. What resto staff are you running?

Getting good traits on Sword and Shield is very tricky. I'd keep the shield for now and maybe transmute it next patch. But you still need to farm a good trait sword, it's very important, so you might drop a good shield in the process.

With 20 dungeon runs you must have easily acquired money and mats to make a heavy shackle set too, right?

Haha well on ps4 COA was the daily pledge so I said the hell with it and took my healer, took me 12 vet runs to get the purple jewels, then about 10 or 12 normals for the weap and shield. The weapon is a mace with precise on it, so I think that will work ok for now until I get a better weap and shield, as the shield has training on it but I'll keep trying for a better one

Oh right, I forgot it was a proc hahaha, I feel dumb asking that question now lol.

oburn

Maulkin wrote: »

oburn wrote: »

I've been farming all day, got the purple jewlery, 1 weapon so far and 1 shield but it has training on it lol. 20 runs through so far.

Here is a question though, if I'm s/b and resto, my heals are on back bar so they wouldn't get the 5 piece bonus?

First you tell me you don't want hassle or farming... then you go and no-life the dungeon

Anyhow, when the set procs you gain 525 spell damage for 8 seconds. You don't lose that if you swap bars or anything, once it procs.. it procs. What resto staff are you running?

Getting good traits on Sword and Shield is very tricky. I'd keep the shield for now and maybe transmute it next patch. But you still need to farm a good trait sword, it's very important, so you might drop a good shield in the process.

With 20 dungeon runs you must have easily acquired money and mats to make a heavy shackle set too, right?

I did get a purple BSW Resto staff weith defending on it and one with sharpened.

oburn

Maulkin wrote: »

oburn wrote: »

I've been farming all day, got the purple jewlery, 1 weapon so far and 1 shield but it has training on it lol. 20 runs through so far.

Here is a question though, if I'm s/b and resto, my heals are on back bar so they wouldn't get the 5 piece bonus?

First you tell me you don't want hassle or farming... then you go and no-life the dungeon

Anyhow, when the set procs you gain 525 spell damage for 8 seconds. You don't lose that if you swap bars or anything, once it procs.. it procs. What resto staff are you running?

Getting good traits on Sword and Shield is very tricky. I'd keep the shield for now and maybe transmute it next patch. But you still need to farm a good trait sword, it's very important, so you might drop a good shield in the process.

With 20 dungeon runs you must have easily acquired money and mats to make a heavy shackle set too, right?

How much Spell Dmg should you try to aim for, like what is a good base? And Mage or The Apprentice for Mundus?

Gan Xing

The current meta around mDK is BSW and Seducer set

Hutch679

Gan Xing wrote: »

The current meta around mDK is BSW and Seducer set

Disagree completely. You're about 2 patches behind I believe.

Brutusmax1mus

Maulkin wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

oburn wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

In my opinion Kags Hope + Sun Silk is not giving you enough sustain in Heavy Armor. I would swap Kags for Shackle like most people have done.

Also since your damage abilities scale form Spell Damage and Max Magicka the extra ~100 Spell Damage in Kags is not much different from the extra ~1k Max Magicka you get form Shackle. So you get very similar damage for better sustain.

The problem with Silks of the Sun is that the spell damage is applied to flame damage abilities only. Which means all your heals are not buffed. That resto staff you're carrying around gets no buffs from it.

You said you don't wanna farm, but if you changed your mind then going for Burning Spell Weave is the right choice. Shackle + BSW is very potent. And you can pick either raw stats with your monster sets (Domi + Shadowrend/Bloodspawn) or go for Skoria.

I think Blobs has put a build up on youtube which is basically that. He called it Balrog's Revenge or something similar. Have a look.

Yeah I see what you mean about silks. I saw Blobs video, I might consider trying to farm BSW.

I bought the silk of sun set for a build I was running with skoria and kags.

Would going 5 Shackle/2 Blood/3 Will Power/2 Torgs be any better? Or just swap out Kags and run Shackle for now until I can farm BSW?

You should get almost all your healing from power lash and embers. Both of which are directly affected by sun. Shackle / sun with duel snb is awesome.

Completely disagree with that statement.

You are basically telling me that if you are getting heat and you manage to get LOS protection you have no heals to bring your health back up? Your only way of healing is to stay aggressive? It's not always viable to stay aggressive. Unless you have a pocket healer you need a heal when no target is in sight. Actually, even if you have a pocket healer, you still need it.

Not to mention that when you are getting hammered by many people, Draw Essence is your best heal and that is Magic Damage not affected by Sun Silk.

Dragons blood is a great oh shot heal for me.

Zvorgin

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

oburn wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

In my opinion Kags Hope + Sun Silk is not giving you enough sustain in Heavy Armor. I would swap Kags for Shackle like most people have done.

Also since your damage abilities scale form Spell Damage and Max Magicka the extra ~100 Spell Damage in Kags is not much different from the extra ~1k Max Magicka you get form Shackle. So you get very similar damage for better sustain.

The problem with Silks of the Sun is that the spell damage is applied to flame damage abilities only. Which means all your heals are not buffed. That resto staff you're carrying around gets no buffs from it.

You said you don't wanna farm, but if you changed your mind then going for Burning Spell Weave is the right choice. Shackle + BSW is very potent. And you can pick either raw stats with your monster sets (Domi + Shadowrend/Bloodspawn) or go for Skoria.

I think Blobs has put a build up on youtube which is basically that. He called it Balrog's Revenge or something similar. Have a look.

Yeah I see what you mean about silks. I saw Blobs video, I might consider trying to farm BSW.

I bought the silk of sun set for a build I was running with skoria and kags.

Would going 5 Shackle/2 Blood/3 Will Power/2 Torgs be any better? Or just swap out Kags and run Shackle for now until I can farm BSW?

You should get almost all your healing from power lash and embers. Both of which are directly affected by sun. Shackle / sun with duel snb is awesome.

Completely disagree with that statement.

You are basically telling me that if you are getting heat and you manage to get LOS protection you have no heals to bring your health back up? Your only way of healing is to stay aggressive? It's not always viable to stay aggressive. Unless you have a pocket healer you need a heal when no target is in sight. Actually, even if you have a pocket healer, you still need it.

Not to mention that when you are getting hammered by many people, Draw Essence is your best heal and that is Magic Damage not affected by Sun Silk.

Dragons blood is a great oh shot heal for me.

I prefer double sword and board with coagulating blood as my main heal. Put it on the same bar with structured entropy since the max health bonus buffs the heal from CB.

Adenoma

Next patch I would run 5x axiom, 5x desert rose, 6x sturdy, 2x impen with 5/2 H/L and 2x Skoria for S&B/S&B running lingering health+speed potions and tri food. This is all for no-CP.

Axiom seems stupid good for magDK.

WhoThenNow7

How do double s&b players regain Magicka if you run out?

NBrookus

WhoThenNow7 wrote: »

How do double s&b players regain Magicka if you run out?

Potions.
Battle Roar.
Unicorn templar still throwing shards.
Sets like Desert Rose and Syrabane.

Basically, you build enough regen to do without.

Next patch: Asylum S&B. This will allow players to trade stam for magicka, but at a much better return ratio than DKs trading magicka for stam.

Zvorgin

WhoThenNow7 wrote: »

How do double s&b players regain Magicka if you run out?

I like to have 1800 - 2k magicka regen. Using double S&B you can also wear 5 light since mitigation comes mainly from blocking in ESO anyway.