Self healing and game progression.

firedrgn

So ive been playing a while. It seems to me I did not have to focus so much on self healing especially in dungeons. As time goes on my character have gotten better , I think .

It,seems like if you can't,keep yourself healed and at least help with healing the group is doomed. Ok maybe a,slight exaggeration. I have noticed I have to,self heal. Anyways. Maybe its something i was suppose to be doing anyways and I just got,lucky in the past with healers.

So do you all think there is a slight devolution of healers. Or is it some of nerfs? Or I'm just,crazy.
If you made it to,the end of my gibberish thanks for,reading.

Tasear

I believe that's why healers are around...to heal you.

AbysmalGhul

A couple of factors to think about

1. The group is too far spread for the healer to effectively heal everyone
2. You have a fake healer
3. The healer is bad
4. Some DPS like to wander away from the group and put themselves into bad predicaments

KochDerDamonen

Eh, for the most part it's safe to pack some kind of shield or heal for one's self or in-case the heals go down. Especially if you like to wander off to random corners of the map. It's not really technically necessary, but for the most part when doing random stuff with random players the healers aren't just spamming heals 24/7 and can easily accidentally be in the middle of something as your health gets chunked.

(and of course the ever-present possibility of someone involved in the dungeon not being super good at what they're doing... or at least, for the moment. Stuff happens )

FloppyTouch

Healers are not needed for most of the game best get use to self healing or if magic user then a shield.

With how strong class heals are and weapon heals plus shields healers are only needed in trials and large group pvp. Anything else it's a waste to have a healer when getting to full health is just a push of a button off on a rotation.

I feel this game is making healers obsolete and it's not fair for the people that enjoy support roles. Do any dungeon vet dungeons with tank healer and 2 dps of equally skill players then do the same dungeon with a tank and 3 dps. You will notice a few things. One is the run will be way faster everything is a burn and still no deaths and healing is about the same.

I don't care what anyone says but SPC and warmcult while they are nice buffs they don't make up for the lost amount of dps you can get by just skipping the healer and going 3 dps.

I would like them to make healing more needed for group things other then trials and Zerg pvp.

Bhaal5

Never seen those trucks with the signs saying "if you cant see my mirrors, i cant see you"? Same theory applies here.
-Stay infront of the healer
-Use their healing springs and all those other cool resto skills, they keep you alive
-Red = dead
BUT
-Learning to keep yourself alive is a great skill also (eg. vma)
Food for thought

FoolishHuman

Lots of people think they don't need a healer or tank in normal dungeons and force that playstyle on you by queueing up for those roles but really just doing dps. Normally in a group you wouldn't need much self heal.

Runefang

It's true that self healing is often all you need once you know to avoid/game the mechanics well enough. The game struggles at times to know whether it's Elder Scrolls where each person is a self-sufficient character in their own right or whether it's an MMO where the holy trinity is well... holy.

For me it just means that healers need to adapt to the current situation, its less and less acceptable to simply heal and provide group buffs. You're better off under healing, allowing those self heals to fill the gap and then filling the rest of your time with DPS.

Armatesz

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

A couple of factors to think about

1. The group is too far spread for the healer to effectively heal everyone
2. You have a fake healer
3. The healer is bad
4. Some DPS like to wander away from the group and put themselves into bad predicaments

Sounds about right, I remember some dungeon runs I went through there was some people that would brag about having themselves put as all the roles so they could get into the dungeon faster... man people like that annoy me.
Probably why I que myself as healer only is because I can do that role. I've also had times where the healer kept transforming into a werewolf... yeah you can't heal someone else in werewolf form. I've also noticed that the reviving barrier is very useful for when you are a healer. I've not had too much issues with utilizing it tho.

Loc2262

@firedrgn: Are we talking about "death due to sudden damage burst" or "health slowly going down until death and no healer caring about it"?

The former can happen anytime, even with good healers. You need to take their reaction time and the game's mechanics into account. Depending on what you and they are doing at the respective moment, when your health goes down rapidly, they have to 1) see it and react, 2) potentially swap bar to their "oh-sh.." button (BoL, healing ward, etc.), 3) potentially wait for the global skill cooldown (1.1 seconds) to expire, and 4) press the button.

If your health goes from full to zero in say less than 1.5-2 seconds, the aforementioned combination can cause the healer to not be able to react quickly enough. In such cases, it's indeed the DD's own responsibility to emergency self-heal, use a shield etc. Which means DDs should be aware of the situation and know in advance when there's potential for damage bursts. For the most part, stay out of red, don't stand in front of the boss, things like that.

For the health slowly going down, well yeah that's something that shouldn't happen. Of course, healers do much more than just spam springs or BoL. The less healing they have to do, the more time they can spend with support (combat prayer - which happens to heal too, ritual, shards, orbs, lightning wall, ele drain, power of the light, heavy attack for aether, things like that).

So if the DDs have a little self-heal or shields to keep the slowly creeping damage at bay, it makes things much easier for the healer and smoother for the group.

Feanor

Do vMA and some PvP. Those are the best teachers for staying alive when hard pressed.

Aisle9

1) You can't outheal oneshots, and there's usually at least 1 oneshot mechanic in every dungeon's last boss, sometimes even before that. These mechanics are meant to make players be active, even if the dedicated tank has aggro. It can be a projectile you have to dodge/block, it could be a GTAoE, it could be a disabling mechanic.

2) For a healer to effectively heal, the group needs to be relatively close. One would think the safest place to be is farthest away from the boss, and one would be wrong (and also dead) as many bossess have dash mechanics to nab the smartest people in the world staying all the way to the other side of the arena. Also, that's where there are no heals. A dedicated healer (a good one, at least) concentrates their healing in a relatively large circle (healing spring's radius) near the boss, that's where most of the red is, but it's also where most of the healing is. Spamming BoL is not an option as it will deplete the healer's magicka reserves in seconds.

So, if you can't be bothered considering oneshots mechanic and you like to be as far away as possible from the danger, yes, you definitely need self heal, shield, and every protection you can stack, healers can't help you.

Otherwise, no, healers heals just fine. If you consider trials, people don't use self heals, unless asked, they trust their healers.

As a healer, if I have a DD that needs a passport to fight a boss, after I asked 3 or 4 times to stay closer, I generally just let them die. It's not my fault if they just can't understand I can't target people to heal them.

On the bright side, you don't really need a healer for dungeons. Right now, the only place where you really need a healer is veteran trials. In dungeons, you bring a healer for the SPC bonus of for easy resources. Every class has a fairly reliable self heal that can keep yourself (and sometimes a friend) up while dealing all the damage you can push out, so, it's not unusual to see group of 4DDs or 3DDs+1tank.

Hope this helps.

Idinuse

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

A couple of factors to think about

1. The group is too far spread for the healer to effectively heal everyone
2. You have a fake healer
3. The healer is bad
4. Some DPS like to wander away from the group and put themselves into bad predicaments

5. Som DPS like to stand in red and face tank with the tank, then blame the healer.

FakeFox

I my opinion you should always have a selfheal or shield. Usually you shouldn't have to use it but healers can make mistakes, you can run out of sight or other things. Of course it can also happen that you don't have a healer when using the dungeonfinder.

Avidspark

I recall once early on in the game being told that as a DPS I needed to maximize my damage output, and forget healing/regen gear, as 'it's the HEALER'S job to keep you alive!'

I never listened, kept healing myself, and have never had an issue there...glad I did that

Mureel

firedrgn wrote: »

So ive been playing a while. It seems to me I did not have to focus so much on self healing especially in dungeons. As time goes on my character have gotten better , I think .

It,seems like if you can't,keep yourself healed and at least help with healing the group is doomed. Ok maybe a,slight exaggeration. I have noticed I have to,self heal. Anyways. Maybe its something i was suppose to be doing anyways and I just got,lucky in the past with healers.

So do you all think there is a slight devolution of healers. Or is it some of nerfs? Or I'm just,crazy.
If you made it to,the end of my gibberish thanks for,reading.

I'd actually prefer LESS self heals. If everyone can heal themselves, that leaves healer role NTH to do.