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Random fact about vampirism that it is an std in the elder scrolls lore

Armatesz
Armatesz
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Any of you that have played skyrim's certain dlc seen the major hint at it and did the vampire quest to becoming one will know this. The fact that currently as of now that vampirism is the only std in the elder scrolls is odd that it is the only one. Where as lycanthrophy and the like are more aimed at making it so that the person has problems sleeping (among the other common parts of being a werewolf made by hircine).
I just thought some of you might like this interesting bit of info... or be even more weirded out by molag bal and hate him more.
Ärmätèsz
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  • DocFrost72
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    I mean, if by this you mean Molag Bal "ravaged" the original vampires creating the children of Coldharbour? It's not as simple as STD as you're making it, but I can see why you view it that way to be sure.

    It's a lot closer to a curse, you are magically altered and lose your soul.
    "Should I do it? No. Will I do it? Of ***ing course I will."
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  • Armatesz
    Armatesz
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    He still did it by *** them, so yeah it was an std.
    Ärmätèsz
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  • Armatesz
    Armatesz
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    I probably should put it as violating them instead as it censored me >.> but you get the point.
    Ärmätèsz
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  • starkerealm
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    Well, Molag Bal is the king of censored.

    But, seriously, no, it's not.

    In most cases, vampirism begins as a disease, contracted from being injured by a vampire. If it hasn't been cured within 3 days, the victim will die, and return from the grave as a vampire. In some cases, the transformation is nearly instantaneous. The victim is sick but alive in one moment, and then undead in the next. In other cases, they remain dead long enough for burial. In some cases, they will remain alive until they rest, at which point they'll die in their sleep and return as a vampire. Regardless, almost all vampires on Tamriel were infected from another.

    There are, seriously, a handful of exceptions. Out of all the vampires we've seen in the series, we only know of four that became vampires the way you're thinking. An individual will be sacrificed to Molag Bal; he then violates them, and they return as a unusually powerful vampire. Specifically, these individuals are referred to as Daughters of Coldharbour. Even then, it's not clear if they're transformed immediately, or pass through the normal disease stages.

    Regardless, we know of five people Molag Bal has personally ravished, and only four are vampires. So, either Vivec is lying, or keeping Molag Bal's severed *** as a spear had other unexpected perks.

    Once you get past that, though, vampirism can be spread by being scratched or bitten by a vampire, so, no, not an STD.
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • starkerealm
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    Really, auto-filter? We're doing this?
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • Armatesz
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    You do understand the fundamentals about an std can be transferred via blood correct? Is something like hiv still considered an std if someone does something like share a dirty needle? It is still the very same principle. It is still an std.
    Ärmätèsz
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  • Elsterchen
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    No its not, what Molag Bal did was an act of oppression. The act itself is related to domination and only mediated by mating.

    Just to point the difference: Molag Bal could have used a broomstick or for that matter any object, instead of a body part... in our language as well as understanding the act would be named the same way. As a result vampirism isn't a consequence due to the act of mating but due to act of oppression/ domination. Its not a std.
  • Armatesz
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    How sure are you of this? There has been nothing else said other than that he violated the original vampires and their curse was passed onto others... they share of the blood making more of their kind. That is a lot like some ways an std is passed on. It is an std, quit being delusional. It is what it is, and that is it.
    Ärmätèsz
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  • Armatesz
    Armatesz
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    Another example is infected blood... have it on your nails and scratch someone, you infect them right? Same principle but you saying that same example would make hiv or aids not an std. No that is not how this works and it is still an std no matter how much you patter on about it.
    Ärmätèsz
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  • Elsterchen
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    Armatesz wrote: »
    How sure are you of this? There has been nothing else said other than that he violated the original vampires and their curse was passed onto others... they share of the blood making more of their kind. That is a lot like some ways an std is passed on. It is an std, quit being delusional. It is what it is, and that is it.

    stds are transmitted by mating. Vampirism isn't. ('point')

    Can't be an std.

    Btw get yourself informed about stds ... many of them do not require any exchange via blood.
  • Armatesz
    Armatesz
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    So if someone takes some blood tainted with std, sloshes it on their hands and gives someone a cut that is not giving them an std? Hmm I fail to see your logic being logical... it is still an std.
    Ärmätèsz
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  • Elsterchen
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    Armatesz wrote: »
    So if someone takes some blood tainted with std, sloshes it on their hands and gives someone a cut that is not giving them an std? Hmm I fail to see your logic being logical... it is still an std.

    As said inform yourself about stds (and yes, there are more then 3 of them) before you fully make a fool of yourself.

    Here is some additional help:" So if someone takes some blood tainted with std, sloshes it on their hands and gives someone a cut that is not giving them an std..." -> no, the person cutting will most likely be safe, unless they do have some open wound on the hand stained with infected blood and (please note: second requirement! ) the std is actually transmitted via blood. If feg we talk about herpes genitales, the person cutting as well as the person that got cut are safe from infection.

    edit: And as far as i know : in eso my char doesn't get infected with vampirism if she slays a group of vampires ... even if my char is full of vampire blood and took some blows (leaving some notable cuts). <- Maybe you like to think about this, too while you are at it ( thinking ) already.
    Edited by Elsterchen on September 24, 2017 1:48PM
  • Armatesz
    Armatesz
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    Like yourself? Don't kid yourself. You don't get what I am talking about... if someone is infected with something like hiv or the like, they get cut with a sword, they grab the wound and blood gets on their hands, they scratch at you and you can potentially get infect that way... is that not another way of getting an std outside of mating? Stop being dense about it and be aware of the potential situations.
    Ärmätèsz
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  • Armatesz
    Armatesz
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    Stop trying to say that stds can only be transferred via only mating...
    Ärmätèsz
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  • Armatesz
    Armatesz
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    Elsterchen wrote: »
    Armatesz wrote: »
    So if someone takes some blood tainted with std, sloshes it on their hands and gives someone a cut that is not giving them an std? Hmm I fail to see your logic being logical... it is still an std.

    As said inform yourself about stds (and yes, there are more then 3 of them) before you fully make a fool of yourself.

    edit: And as far as i know : in eso my char doesn't get infected with vamirism if she slays a group of vampires ... even if my char is full of vampire blood and took some blows (leaving some notable cuts). <- Maybe you like to think about this, too while you are at it ( thinking ) already.

    You did play the quest to becoming a vampire in eso correct? You seen the first vampire talk about what happened correct? It is still the catalyst for the std, through the changes or mutations as you can look at it like the cyrodiilic vampires modified by clavicus vile or the other lesser types you typically would find in skyrim. There has been in the past where stds have mutated as well. It still however retains that it is an std and you don't see any non vampires in a relationship with a vampire now do you?
    Ärmätèsz
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  • Elsterchen
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    Armatesz wrote: »
    Elsterchen wrote: »
    Armatesz wrote: »
    So if someone takes some blood tainted with std, sloshes it on their hands and gives someone a cut that is not giving them an std? Hmm I fail to see your logic being logical... it is still an std.

    As said inform yourself about stds (and yes, there are more then 3 of them) before you fully make a fool of yourself.

    edit: And as far as i know : in eso my char doesn't get infected with vamirism if she slays a group of vampires ... even if my char is full of vampire blood and took some blows (leaving some notable cuts). <- Maybe you like to think about this, too while you are at it ( thinking ) already.

    You did play the quest to becoming a vampire in eso correct? You seen the first vampire talk about what happened correct? It is still the catalyst for the std, through the changes or mutations as you can look at it like the cyrodiilic vampires modified by clavicus vile or the other lesser types you typically would find in skyrim. There has been in the past where stds have mutated as well. It still however retains that it is an std and you don't see any non vampires in a relationship with a vampire now do you?

    Well, I did play the starting quest (as i was forced to) and beeing infected by vampirism didn't require my char to mate with anyone. Honestly, there are many more stds then just HIV.
    And yes I am very well informed about the probablity of virus mutations, as well as the consequences of virus ecology, for epidemiology. However I do fail to see any relation to vampirism in eso, here.
  • victoriana-blue
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    Armatesz, it might help to think of blood-borne diseases and STDs as overlapping but not identical categories. Where diseases like HIV and syphilis can be transmitted without sexual contact, afaik that's the main way they're transmitted; on the other hand, diseases like hepatitis are primarily transmitted through blood and drinking water, though I'm sure you could contract the disease through some sexual activity.

    Given that vampirism primarily spreads without sexual contact, I'm on the side of "not an STD."
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  • Armatesz
    Armatesz
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    But it can and has spread through sexual contact before, so it still retains an std category though. Its first introduction through the first vampire was through sexual contact.
    Ärmätèsz
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  • starkerealm
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    Armatesz wrote: »
    But it can and has spread through sexual contact before, so it still retains an std category though. Its first introduction through the first vampire was through sexual contact.

    No, it wasn't. The only time sexual contact has been the vector is when Molag Bal personally participated. Given Molag Bal isn't infected, this means it's highly unlikely there's any sexually transmitted element to vampirism in TES.

    Normally it's a blood borne pathogen, that converts into a curse after it has killed the host. Completely different. If anything, judging by what we've seen in Skyrim and ESO, the most likely vector seems to be saliva (with direct bites having a 100% infection rate, as opposed to minor injuries in combat having a low infection rate.) Assuming, you know, vampires still salivate.
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • Armatesz
    Armatesz
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    You don't understand how a disease can mutate, even though it started off as a disease that was transferred through sexual contact it does make that a std category and has expanded upon later (lesser) versions of vampirism, where even Clavicus vile made his own version of said vampires. Vampirism is an std in the elder scrolls lore, it can be both a curse and disease and it is often labeled as a disease if you want to be specific or all those times in skyrim where you got the before finalization of the fully developed disease cured via potion, but even the usage of the word curse can also be used for addressing an ill stricken disease. Things are what they are and that is how things are. No beating around the bushes on this one, Molag Bal violated someone and they got the disease after the violation, it started from that point and spread around through multiple means. Through bites and scratches and certain diseases can spread through open cuts and who knows if for whatever reasons that because your character is soulless in skyrim that makes you a different case to being infected where certain diseases have to have a certain thing to have itself latched onto the host, where as if it is not there then it might likely fail to apply itself to said host. There can be say certain carriers that have a mutated sort of the disease that might pick up on that missing part and bring that part with it making the said defended host vulnerable to infection.
    Ärmätèsz
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  • ManwithBeard9
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    But, muh skyrim. It haz alls teh lorez.
  • idk
    idk
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    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    I mean, if by this you mean Molag Bal "ravaged" the original vampires creating the children of Coldharbour? It's not as simple as STD as you're making it, but I can see why you view it that way to be sure.

    It's a lot closer to a curse, you are magically altered and lose your soul.

    I think some are getting into semantics and reading into the words chose. For certain dialogue. Basically, they see what they want to see.
    Really, idk
  • Tyrobag
    Tyrobag
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    I don't think you understand the definition of an STD... They are transmitted by sexual interaction. "Sexually transmitted disease: any disease characteristically transmitted by sexual contact, as gonorrhea, syphilis, *** herpes, and chlamydia."

    Vampirisum is not spread from person to person through sexual contact, for Daughters of Coldharbor Molag Bal is a transmission vector (like a tick or a mosquito. Is lyme disease an std contracted from ticks? Is malaria and std contracted from mosquitoes?). Additionally, we have two important facts: that Daughters of Coldharbor actually aren't diseased in a traditional sense(they did not contract Noxiphilic Sanguivoria, Porphyric Hemophilia, or Sanguinare Vampiris), and that Molag Bal doesn't have vampirisum himself, so it isn't even spreading a disease from him to them, it just causes the end result of being a pure vampire.
    Edited by Tyrobag on September 25, 2017 1:26AM
  • victoriana-blue
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    Given that Molag Bal's assaults on the Daughters are strongly implied to have involved multiple kinds of torture (he's the King of Brutality, Domination, and ***, after all), it's also impossible to definitively say he transmitted/inflicted vampirism via sexual contact.

    The existence of fact a + fact b doesn't mean that fact a causes fact b. Just because people eat more ice cream in summer and drowning deaths are more frequent in summer, doesn't mean that eating ice cream causes drowning, y'know?
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  • starkerealm
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    Given that Molag Bal's assaults on the Daughters are strongly implied to have involved multiple kinds of torture (he's the King of Brutality, Domination, and ***, after all), it's also impossible to definitively say he transmitted/inflicted vampirism via sexual contact.

    The existence of fact a + fact b doesn't mean that fact a causes fact b. Just because people eat more ice cream in summer and drowning deaths are more frequent in summer, doesn't mean that eating ice cream causes drowning, y'know?

    The fallacy you're thinking of is, post hoc ergo proctor hoc. Translates to: "after this, therefore because of this."

    EDIT: Technically, there's an alternate Latin name, that I know the word filter will flip out over. Because the Latin version of, "with this," results in modern English word that Autofilter will not appreciate.
    Edited by starkerealm on September 25, 2017 10:38AM
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  • starkerealm
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    Armatesz wrote: »
    You don't understand how a disease can mutate, even though it started off as a disease that was transferred through sexual contact...

    Actually, no. It starts as a curse that's transmitted through sexual contact. This is a very significant distinction, and one that seems to have eluded you. While we don't have full information on Lamae, we do know that Serana and Velerica became Daughters of Coldharbour immediately after the summoning.
    Armatesz wrote: »
    ...it does make that a std category...

    I regret to inform you, but the CDC does not have any category for sexually transmitted curses.
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  • Armatesz
    Armatesz
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    When a disease is more resistant to something like vaccination shots or even something like the common cold or the flu... you can't expect a shot from years back to work always do you?
    Ärmätèsz
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  • Armatesz
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    But as for the terminology of curse and disease is often a thought process that people that have a disease that it is like a curse and some of said things have gotten quite a bit of prejudice as well. Another example is how would you feel if you seen someone coughing really bad and then they accidentally or purposefully cough direct at your face, that it gets into your mouth or at your eyes. Do you feel the same way as that?

    Now lets put it in a more mundane aspect and treat curse as something that causes some kind of hindrance or potential harm. Now does it seem to be in some aspect the same as a disease for some kinds of retrospect on how vampirism is treated in the elder scrolls lore? A lot of people in irl human history have often treated various diseases like people were being possessed by demons or the like. Silly superstitions that got a lot of people harmed or killed unjustly. A lot of medical malpractice as well.
    Ärmätèsz
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  • ZOS_MikaS
    ZOS_MikaS
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    Because this thread has been inappropriate and very off-topic, we are closing it down.
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