Should Stamina Nightblades get a class based on demand self heal ?

Betsararie

No...I am happy the way things are

Soleya wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Uhm, sap essence, swallow soul and refreshing path heal pretty darn well.

None of those are Stam NB abilities. The heals on those are pretty much non existent on a stamina build.

Blanco wrote: »

Ok Surge is not an on demand self heal, it's based off of RNG more than anything and is totally overrated. I achieve the same spell damage bonus through other means and heal myself with other means. Works fine for me.

Sorcs do not have an access to an on demand heal such as vigor, green dragon blood, etc.

Surge pretty much procs every single second. So it's a permanent Heal Over Time. And Dark Exchange is an on demand heal + gives magicka back.

Its ok you just don't understand that Dark Conversion HAS A 1.2 SEC CAST TIME. WOW. It must be so hard to understand!

You also are missing the fact that Surge does not PROC every single second. Nope. That isn't true.

Maybe you should increase your crit.

In 30 seconds of hitting the target dummy my mag sorc proc-ed surge 26 times for a total of 93,075 healing....or 2774 heals per second. That's with 51% crit.

And again, sorcs have other heals, but you already said you don't want pets. That's your choice.

Ok , so I just reread this and if youre hitting 51% crit in PvP, there is no way your build is optimized for damage.

my build is not BiS but I am hitting 2.2k regen, 3420 spell damage and 41 k mag. That is not fully optimized but it's darn near close for mag sorc.

My crit is 38% and I have tested surge and I was not happy with the heal. I have no idea how you are getting 51% crit, but you are sacrificing something to get there and it likely is lowering your overall damage output.

LadyNalcarya

No...I am happy the way things are

Vaoh wrote: »

Because Stam NB is so weak no one plays it.... def not the most popular class or anything.

This is a thread created by biased Stam NBs for biased Stam NBs.

This.
Stamblade pulls extremely high st numbers in pve and its still one of the strongest pvp classes.
But of course, it desperately needs a buff! Probably because proc gankers dont know what to do after Viper nerf or something.

neverwalk

Other

at level 10 i go to Cyrodiil and do the seige weapon training which open Alliance War skill line, then do some PvE content in Cyrodiil to level up skill to unlock VIGOR. there's my heal.

RavenSworn

Other

I'm gonna put it out there that nbs do have a class heal, it just takes a different route in getting it. Even by talking about Stam nbs, you still have access to killer's blade and reaper's mark. Getting it to heal though requires you to kill. It fits the class design, fits the theme for a Nightblade and honestly, a much better 'heal' to compensate the lack of an on-demand one.

Stam users also have access to weapon heals, which is, complementary to what a Nightblade can do as a class. While agony will be reworked, it still fits the whole theme around 'hurt to heal' game play of nightblades.

starkerealm

Other

neverwalk wrote: »

at level 10 i go to Cyrodiil and do the seige weapon training which open Alliance War skill line, then do some PvE content in Cyrodiil to level up skill to unlock VIGOR. there's my heal.

Wait... you can run the PvE content to advance the alliance war skill lines now? When did that change?

LadyNalcarya

No...I am happy the way things are

starkerealm wrote: »

neverwalk wrote: »

at level 10 i go to Cyrodiil and do the seige weapon training which open Alliance War skill line, then do some PvE content in Cyrodiil to level up skill to unlock VIGOR. there's my heal.

Wait... you can run the PvE content to advance the alliance war skill lines now? When did that change?

Daily quests in towns give 250 ap each... And theyre very easy and fast. AP gain is nothing special, but I guess it provides an option for pve-only players.
You can also get some rare items, such as Alteration MAstery and Morag Tong weapons from doing these quests. And exp is pretty good, too.

Xoelarasizerer

No...I am happy the way things are

A Stamina morph of funnel health might be interesting, but desperately needed? LOLNO

DW and 2h offer skills, yeah they may not be as good as class exclusive heals, but they are enough to keep a Stam NB from being dead in the water.

My Stamina NB is built to Werewolf asap so healing isn't ever an issue for them.

Denyiir

Other

I just wish they moved Rally to another skill line like medium armor or fighters guild.

Killset

Vaoh wrote: »

Because Stam NB is so weak no one plays it.... def not the most popular class or anything.

This is a thread created by biased Stam NBs for biased Stam NBs.

Since when is asking for peoples input and opinions on a subject biased? OP expressed his concern then asked for other people's input through the use of a poll. Perhaps everyone should run their thread ideas by you before posting so we can have better understanding of what is biased!

Feanor

Yes...NB should have some sort of class based healing

Along with a reduction of Incap to 20 Ult and unbreakable cloak for 20 seconds. Maybe then the constant whining stops at last.

Soleya

Blanco wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Uhm, sap essence, swallow soul and refreshing path heal pretty darn well.

None of those are Stam NB abilities. The heals on those are pretty much non existent on a stamina build.

Blanco wrote: »

Ok Surge is not an on demand self heal, it's based off of RNG more than anything and is totally overrated. I achieve the same spell damage bonus through other means and heal myself with other means. Works fine for me.

Sorcs do not have an access to an on demand heal such as vigor, green dragon blood, etc.

Surge pretty much procs every single second. So it's a permanent Heal Over Time. And Dark Exchange is an on demand heal + gives magicka back.

Its ok you just don't understand that Dark Conversion HAS A 1.2 SEC CAST TIME. WOW. It must be so hard to understand!

You also are missing the fact that Surge does not PROC every single second. Nope. That isn't true.

Maybe you should increase your crit.

In 30 seconds of hitting the target dummy my mag sorc proc-ed surge 26 times for a total of 93,075 healing....or 2774 heals per second. That's with 51% crit.

And again, sorcs have other heals, but you already said you don't want pets. That's your choice.

Ok , so I just reread this and if youre hitting 51% crit in PvP, there is no way your build is optimized for damage.

my build is not BiS but I am hitting 2.2k regen, 3420 spell damage and 41 k mag. That is not fully optimized but it's darn near close for mag sorc.

My crit is 38% and I have tested surge and I was not happy with the heal. I have no idea how you are getting 51% crit, but you are sacrificing something to get there and it likely is lowering your overall damage output.

I was talking PVE. I can't find anything in the original post about this being a conversation about PVP.

AhPook_Is_Here

Other

There is something happening here, what it is aint' exactly clear.

NyassaV

Magicka night blades have tons of healing and if you say otherwise you are doing something stupidly wrong. STAMINA, nightblade could use a little bit of healing (The Leeching strikes change was stupid and nearly useless) but anything more than a slight passive heal will break things

Chronicburn

Yes...NB should have some sort of class based healing

I'd rather see a self heal then the bastardized thing they are doing now ... but it was better just to leave things alone

idk

No...I am happy the way things are

Stamblades have an on demand self heal. Vigor. Pretty decent heal. Also has the ability to reduce AoE damage significantly via dual wield.

Only two classes have stam heals and one acts more like a hot. The other three son of have an ok demand heal that scales off stamina. Templar heal that doesn't scale off magicks requires a corpse and is pretty small per corpse.

Really no justification has been provided for making the NB special.

PlagueSD

No...I am happy the way things are

TheShadowScout wrote: »

No.

Why make every class the same after all... magblades are more then fine with their continous lifedrain-HoT, and stamblades... just have to find other ways to deal with their lack of class based "oh, crud!" selfheal. There are more then enough options hidden in weapon or other skill lines after all...

...and I say that as having a stamblade as my main!

Exactly,

I have enough HoTs from Bahrah's Curse and Briarheart procs, Bloodthirst, and Blood Craze. I have no issues with health.


Besides, our "oh #$%#" heal is actually the siphon ultimate, Soul Tether.

Kode

No...I am happy the way things are

If they get a heal on demand, it should deal heal for 50% but cost 65% of their health to cast... Gotta siphon and all...

Phinix1

Yes...NB should have some sort of class based healing

I think their siphoning attacks or whatever the stamina morph is need to leech quite a bit more health as healing than it does on light/heavy attacks.

Between that and relentless focus, maybe the aoe power drain for major brutality when solo or on trash, and whatever other utility (mark target, shades, etc.) NB already has too many cooldowns to constantly juggle to be worried about another heal mechanic.

I think ZOS should just buff the relatively weak heal from siphoning attacks and/or add a burst heal at the end along with the resource return.

EDIT: Casting it again before the duration was up should instantly restore a percent of the final burst of stats and health much like Rally, only better.

templesus

Other

KingJ wrote: »

Yes Nightblade need better healing.Our only way to get a decent heal compared to other classes is to combine it with Cloak which breaks randomly alot.Stamblading healing sucks even with rally and vigor.

Stam sorc have rally vigor crit surge and when they need stam dark conversion.
Stamdk has major mending
Stamplar has minor mending and vitality

Stamblades have a crit heal which every other class can also get rather easily.Stamblade has the worst out of every class.

False. Stamina nightblades have an inherent ability to achieve higher crit then the other classes, and cloak rally can be arguably the highest burst heal in the game. Just because cloak may randomly break does not mean you aren't getting that free crit heal, you get it regardless of the fact. If you want something to cry about go play your stamblade build on stamplar and then tell me stamblade has the worst healing. You'll probably last 5 minutes before raging off

Surak73

No...I am happy the way things are

Where is my LOL button?...

OdinForge

No...I am happy the way things are

Swallow soul is quite strong of a heal for low levels, it's perfectly fine for low level healing and damage. They'll have access to things like blood craze from DW, and rally from 2H and/or draining shot from bow.

I've leveled three nightblades now since the game came out, at least a year apart each time. Swallow soul never fails to get me through early game.

At end game pvp nightblades have access additionally to vigor, adding another heal would break a class that already has access to on demand stealth.

Phinix1

Yes...NB should have some sort of class based healing

templesus wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Yes Nightblade need better healing.Our only way to get a decent heal compared to other classes is to combine it with Cloak which breaks randomly alot.Stamblading healing sucks even with rally and vigor.

Stam sorc have rally vigor crit surge and when they need stam dark conversion.
Stamdk has major mending
Stamplar has minor mending and vitality

Stamblades have a crit heal which every other class can also get rather easily.Stamblade has the worst out of every class.

False. Stamina nightblades have an inherent ability to achieve higher crit then the other classes, and cloak rally can be arguably the highest burst heal in the game. Just because cloak may randomly break does not mean you aren't getting that free crit heal, you get it regardless of the fact. If you want something to cry about go play your stamblade build on stamplar and then tell me stamblade has the worst healing. You'll probably last 5 minutes before raging off

And you have to slot 2h which is largely crap especially post AOE nerf and outperformed on every level by dual wield/bow in any PVE content.

Unless you are making assumptions solely on the less than 10% of the game that has anything to do with PVP, which less than 40% of the players even use regularly.

KingJ

Yes...NB should have some sort of class based healing

templesus wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Yes Nightblade need better healing.Our only way to get a decent heal compared to other classes is to combine it with Cloak which breaks randomly alot.Stamblading healing sucks even with rally and vigor.

Stam sorc have rally vigor crit surge and when they need stam dark conversion.
Stamdk has major mending
Stamplar has minor mending and vitality

Stamblades have a crit heal which every other class can also get rather easily.Stamblade has the worst out of every class.

False. Stamina nightblades have an inherent ability to achieve higher crit then the other classes, and cloak rally can be arguably the highest burst heal in the game. Just because cloak may randomly break does not mean you aren't getting that free crit heal, you get it regardless of the fact. If you want something to cry about go play your stamblade build on stamplar and then tell me stamblade has the worst healing. You'll probably last 5 minutes before raging off

False higher crit means nothing it's the crit modifier you are thinking off which NB and templar have a similar crit modifier. Again your wrong BOL is the highest Burst heal and you don't have to wait 20 seconds to use it and hope cloak work or a dot didn't take the crit buff.Your better off on other class using rally you know other classes can crit heal as well but I guess you might not know that.A stamdk with Major mending 12% healing received and cp into Quick recovery and bless will always have the best rally burst heal or strongest Vigor ticks even without crit.A stamplar with similar crit modifier to Stamblade also have access to minor mending and vitality which even without a crit will have a bigger rally heal and again vigor ticks not to mention if they do crit which isn't hard on a templar will be a large heal.A stamsorc will have similar crit but lower crit modifier has access to a third heal the other 3 original stam spec don't have access to Crit surge,rally and vigor will be overall better heal than a crit rally heal from a stamblade.

I play my stamplar every other day @templesus and have no problem healing and have way better healing than my stamblade.Stamplar is fun if you know how to play it and has helped me sustain better on my stamblade since sustain is worst on a stamplar so It helped me play with less sustain and add more damage to my other builds and perform just as well.Only thing that make me rage it on my stamplar is Soul assault but that's because its stupid asf.

I played everything but magdk it sounds like you don't know how to build your stamplar @templesus if you have bad healing I can help you its not hard just take skill and learning how the game works.

Neoauspex

Other

And Templars/Wardens can have stealth, everybody wins!

Biro123

I can understand it being useful for brand new players and it being their first class, but end-game NB doesn't need it imho. Instead, I wonder if think Vigor should be in the fighters guild line instead of alliance-war and one of the first things to get.

Would make the new-player stam journey so much easier.

KingJ

Yes...NB should have some sort of class based healing

Neoauspex wrote: »

And Templars/Wardens can have stealth, everybody wins!

Everyone can stealth all you have to do is crouch

templesus

Other

KingJ wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Yes Nightblade need better healing.Our only way to get a decent heal compared to other classes is to combine it with Cloak which breaks randomly alot.Stamblading healing sucks even with rally and vigor.

Stam sorc have rally vigor crit surge and when they need stam dark conversion.
Stamdk has major mending
Stamplar has minor mending and vitality

Stamblades have a crit heal which every other class can also get rather easily.Stamblade has the worst out of every class.

False. Stamina nightblades have an inherent ability to achieve higher crit then the other classes, and cloak rally can be arguably the highest burst heal in the game. Just because cloak may randomly break does not mean you aren't getting that free crit heal, you get it regardless of the fact. If you want something to cry about go play your stamblade build on stamplar and then tell me stamblade has the worst healing. You'll probably last 5 minutes before raging off

False higher crit means nothing it's the crit modifier you are thinking off which NB and templar have a similar crit modifier. Again your wrong BOL is the highest Burst heal and you don't have to wait 20 seconds to use it and hope cloak work or a dot didn't take the crit buff.Your better off on other class using rally you know other classes can crit heal as well but I guess you might not know that.A stamdk with Major mending 12% healing received and cp into Quick recovery and bless will always have the best rally burst heal or strongest Vigor ticks even without crit.A stamplar with similar crit modifier to Stamblade also have access to minor mending and vitality which even without a crit will have a bigger rally heal and again vigor ticks not to mention if they do crit which isn't hard on a templar will be a large heal.A stamsorc will have similar crit but lower crit modifier has access to a third heal the other 3 original stam spec don't have access to Crit surge,rally and vigor will be overall better heal than a crit rally heal from a stamblade.

I play my stamplar every other day @templesus and have no problem healing and have way better healing than my stamblade.Stamplar is fun if you know how to play it and has helped me sustain better on my stamblade since sustain is worst on a stamplar so It helped me play with less sustain and add more damage to my other builds and perform just as well.Only thing that make me rage it on my stamplar is Soul assault but that's because its stupid asf.

I played everything but magdk it sounds like you don't know how to build your stamplar @templesus if you have bad healing I can help you its not hard just take skill and learning how the game works.

Tldr

KingJ

Yes...NB should have some sort of class based healing

templesus wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Yes Nightblade need better healing.Our only way to get a decent heal compared to other classes is to combine it with Cloak which breaks randomly alot.Stamblading healing sucks even with rally and vigor.

Stam sorc have rally vigor crit surge and when they need stam dark conversion.
Stamdk has major mending
Stamplar has minor mending and vitality

Stamblades have a crit heal which every other class can also get rather easily.Stamblade has the worst out of every class.

False. Stamina nightblades have an inherent ability to achieve higher crit then the other classes, and cloak rally can be arguably the highest burst heal in the game. Just because cloak may randomly break does not mean you aren't getting that free crit heal, you get it regardless of the fact. If you want something to cry about go play your stamblade build on stamplar and then tell me stamblade has the worst healing. You'll probably last 5 minutes before raging off

False higher crit means nothing it's the crit modifier you are thinking off which NB and templar have a similar crit modifier. Again your wrong BOL is the highest Burst heal and you don't have to wait 20 seconds to use it and hope cloak work or a dot didn't take the crit buff.Your better off on other class using rally you know other classes can crit heal as well but I guess you might not know that.A stamdk with Major mending 12% healing received and cp into Quick recovery and bless will always have the best rally burst heal or strongest Vigor ticks even without crit.A stamplar with similar crit modifier to Stamblade also have access to minor mending and vitality which even without a crit will have a bigger rally heal and again vigor ticks not to mention if they do crit which isn't hard on a templar will be a large heal.A stamsorc will have similar crit but lower crit modifier has access to a third heal the other 3 original stam spec don't have access to Crit surge,rally and vigor will be overall better heal than a crit rally heal from a stamblade.

I play my stamplar every other day @templesus and have no problem healing and have way better healing than my stamblade.Stamplar is fun if you know how to play it and has helped me sustain better on my stamblade since sustain is worst on a stamplar so It helped me play with less sustain and add more damage to my other builds and perform just as well.Only thing that make me rage it on my stamplar is Soul assault but that's because its stupid asf.

I played everything but magdk it sounds like you don't know how to build your stamplar @templesus if you have bad healing I can help you its not hard just take skill and learning how the game works.

Tldr

Being able to crit heal is crap when everyone can have a crit heal plus other classes have several other bonuses to healing can crit heal and have passives that boost there healing.Some classes have inclass stam heals,if you think that being able to crit on a heal really matters then you need to l2p or learn how the game works.

templesus

Other

KingJ wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Yes Nightblade need better healing.Our only way to get a decent heal compared to other classes is to combine it with Cloak which breaks randomly alot.Stamblading healing sucks even with rally and vigor.

Stam sorc have rally vigor crit surge and when they need stam dark conversion.
Stamdk has major mending
Stamplar has minor mending and vitality

Stamblades have a crit heal which every other class can also get rather easily.Stamblade has the worst out of every class.

False. Stamina nightblades have an inherent ability to achieve higher crit then the other classes, and cloak rally can be arguably the highest burst heal in the game. Just because cloak may randomly break does not mean you aren't getting that free crit heal, you get it regardless of the fact. If you want something to cry about go play your stamblade build on stamplar and then tell me stamblade has the worst healing. You'll probably last 5 minutes before raging off

False higher crit means nothing it's the crit modifier you are thinking off which NB and templar have a similar crit modifier. Again your wrong BOL is the highest Burst heal and you don't have to wait 20 seconds to use it and hope cloak work or a dot didn't take the crit buff.Your better off on other class using rally you know other classes can crit heal as well but I guess you might not know that.A stamdk with Major mending 12% healing received and cp into Quick recovery and bless will always have the best rally burst heal or strongest Vigor ticks even without crit.A stamplar with similar crit modifier to Stamblade also have access to minor mending and vitality which even without a crit will have a bigger rally heal and again vigor ticks not to mention if they do crit which isn't hard on a templar will be a large heal.A stamsorc will have similar crit but lower crit modifier has access to a third heal the other 3 original stam spec don't have access to Crit surge,rally and vigor will be overall better heal than a crit rally heal from a stamblade.

I play my stamplar every other day @templesus and have no problem healing and have way better healing than my stamblade.Stamplar is fun if you know how to play it and has helped me sustain better on my stamblade since sustain is worst on a stamplar so It helped me play with less sustain and add more damage to my other builds and perform just as well.Only thing that make me rage it on my stamplar is Soul assault but that's because its stupid asf.

I played everything but magdk it sounds like you don't know how to build your stamplar @templesus if you have bad healing I can help you its not hard just take skill and learning how the game works.

Tldr

Being able to crit heal is crap when everyone can have a crit heal plus other classes have several other bonuses to healing can crit heal and have passives that boost there healing.Some classes have inclass stam heals,if you think that being able to crit on a heal really matters then you need to l2p or learn how the game works.

If you knew basic reading comprehension you would understand what I said, through passive NBs can get higher crit then other classes and also have a passive to increase the crit heals, you will very seldomly see any class other then NB with over 50% crit that isn't running a precise weapon. That crit along with their modifier increase their overall hps (healing per second) drastically.

Axoinus

I think everyone is thinking far too one-dimensionally. This is not about healing. It is about mitigation.

Give the Nightblade something unique. Right now, the NB signature power is cloaking/stealth. This power is largely useless in PvE groups.

I purpose a change where Major Evasion kicks in for 5 seconds after a cloak power wear off. After 5 seconds, the buff drops to minor evasion for another 5.

This gives Nightblades a little extra mitigation, gives stealth more combat usefulness in PvE groups, and injects a little bit of realism into the skill. Seriously, somebody appears out of thin air, they should get a better chance to evade attacks.