Why does the Ravager set not proc from Venomous Claw?

Savos_Saren

I was answering a question in the forums and it brought up this issue. So, I did some testing of my own with various classes and melee skills- all using the Ravager set.

Templar: Ravager will proc from Biting Jabs
Nightblade: Ravager will proc from Killer's Blade and Surprise Attack
Dragonknight: Ravager will not proc from Venomous Claw

At first, I thought that perhaps it was because Venomous Claw is considered a DoT... but that can't be right. Technically speaking, both morphs of Puncturing Strikes proc Valkyn Skoria (which only procs on DoTs)- so, if the logic is that Ravager doesn't proc on DoTs, ipso facto it shouldn't proc on Biting Jabs.

So what's the logic behind Ravager not proccing off Venomous Claw?

KingJ

Biting jabs is a channel channel proc skoria.Not sure why jabs proc ravager but claw is a dot and so doesnt proc ravager.

sevomd69

jaburns wrote: »

I was answering a question in the forums and it brought up this issue. So, I did some testing of my own with various classes and melee skills- all using the Ravager set.

Templar: Ravager will proc from Biting Jabs
Nightblade: Ravager will proc from Killer's Blade and Surprise Attack
Dragonknight: Ravager will not proc from Venomous Claw

At first, I thought that perhaps it was because Venomous Claw is considered a DoT... but that can't be right. Technically speaking, both morphs of Puncturing Strikes proc Valkyn Skoria (which only procs on DoTs)- so, if the logic is that Ravager doesn't proc on DoTs, ipso facto it shouldn't proc on Biting Jabs.

So what's the logic behind Ravager not proccing off Venomous Claw?

ZoS logic... for how long did Twisted path proc Scathing Mage?

SmellyUnlimited

Because Twisted Path isn't a true dot. It doesn't stay attached to an enemy, but rather, only when they are within the path. So essentially they are taking direct damage every few seconds, as opposed to rending slash/venomous claw, which attach themselves to an enemy regardless of where they go.

Savos_Saren

KingJ wrote: »

Biting jabs is a channel channel proc skoria.Not sure why jabs proc ravager but claw is a dot and so doesnt proc ravager.

@ZOS_RichLambert can you clarify this?

Savos_Saren

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Because Twisted Path isn't a true dot. It doesn't stay attached to an enemy, but rather, only when they are within the path. So essentially they are taking direct damage every few seconds, as opposed to rending slash/venomous claw, which attach themselves to an enemy regardless of where they go.

Does Rending Slash proc Ravager?

sevomd69

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Because Twisted Path isn't a true dot. It doesn't stay attached to an enemy, but rather, only when they are within the path. So essentially they are taking direct damage every few seconds, as opposed to rending slash/venomous claw, which attach themselves to an enemy regardless of where they go.

Then why did they patch it?... it is now considered a DoT and doesn't proc Scathing Mage anymore...

KingJ

jaburns wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Biting jabs is a channel channel proc skoria.Not sure why jabs proc ravager but claw is a dot and so doesnt proc ravager.

@ZOS_RichLambert can you clarify this?

It's Los logic doesnt make sense.

SnubbS

Well—there goes Ravager next patch. Thanks OP.

Thogard

SnubbS wrote: »

Well—there goes Ravager next patch. Thanks OP.

Ravager has been dead for a while. Clever alchemist is the new hotness lol.

Danksta

Is Jabs proccing Ravager? Or Burning Light?

SirDopey

There's nothing in Ravager's tool tip saying it needs to be direct melee damage, it just stats melee damage so it's appropriate that Jab's is proc'ing it no?. But I guess then steel tornado should too?

I think this is a legit bug though as the first hit at least of VC should be able to proc the set, remember it does a small amount of direct damage and then a nice amount of dot

Vapirko

The way ravager is proced has been screwy for ages. Still no one can explain why jabs procs it but flurry doesn't.

Mappy2kx

imdeed !

Savos_Saren

ZoS needs to correct Ravager to say physical melee damage within 8 meters or something along those lines.

KochDerDamonen

@jaburns @KingJ @Vapirko

Templar Aedric Spear Passive "Burning Light": When you deal damage with an Aedric Spear ability, you have a 25% chance to deal an additional X Physical Damage or X Magic Damage, whichever is higher. This effect can occur once every 0.5 seconds.

This passive proc counts as direct damage, allowing templars to proc DoT and DD effects from a single spell (jabs)

(it should still clarify that it means direct melee damage, if that's why it doesn't proc off of venomous claw)

Vapirko

@KochDerDamonen yeah I get that part of it but put it this way. I understand why the bleed from say bloodscrazy doesn't proc ravager. But it also has the advantage of completing the attack but getting the bleed while you perform other moves. Flurry however require you to actually carry out each hit like jabs, and yet it doesn't proc ravager. I understand that for whatever reason flurry counts as a dot but based on how the animation is carried out it really shouldn't be. In my mind and based on all attacks I can think of a dot is damage that carries on after the animation is completed no? Or at least that seems to be the idea. But the flurry/jabs distinction seems really wonky to me. I guess some staff heavy attacks are continuous dots, idk. I want ZOS to explain the choice behind that. Because ravagers could be a great set for dw builds in pvp if that were the case and give more people a reason to consider using dw.

Everstorm

Hmmm, was playing around with the Morag Tong set and that one does work with claw and breath but not with bloodthirst..

Savos_Saren

OP here:


What's ultimately upsetting about all of this is that Ravager specifically says "melee attacks". It doesn't say non-DoT melee, stamina-based melee, magicka-based melee, or direct damage melee.

What gives? I mean, honestly, melee is melee. Up-close-and-personal attacks. Regardless of the attack- melee abilities are just any attack not considered "ranged" or "ground based", right?

Feanor

I think we should start at a point several steps earlier. ZOS stated they wanted to find ways to make clearer what the different types of damage mean when they changed Path. We're still waiting for that clarification. Right now it's at best confusing which abilities are doing which type of damage and why, and nothing of that is documented in game or officially. It's educated guesswork by dedicated and knowledgeable players. That shouldn't be necessary.

Brrrofski

Danksta wrote: »

Is Jabs proccing Ravager? Or Burning Light?

I always assumed it was burning light that procced it, not have itself.

Same reason scathing mage works well on a magplar.

WatchYourSixx

Just want to point out for those that don't know, jabs is direct damage and damage over time. Each hit counts as both. Don't ask me why, but just check it yourself using the CPS that buff dot and direct, you'll see jabs increases from both stars.

It procs ravager, selenes, and is buffed by the orc passive. Flurry is only a dot, therefore would not proc it.

If I were a betting man, I'd say venom claw doesn't proc ravager because it's not physical damage. Idk why that's the case, but I'm almost certain that's why.

Does rending slashes initial hit proc ravager?

Liofa

I came here to see people who would say Venomous Claw won't proc it because it is a DoT , completely ignoring the initial hit of it being direct damage . I am not disappointed .

What it means is , when you cast Venomous Claw , if you read the tooltip , it does an initial damage first and then starts ticking as DoT . If Ravager is not proccing from the first hit , that means it is bugged . Ticks cannot proc it because they are not direct damage , they count as DoT , which cannot proc Ravager .

About Jabs , they proc sets like Selene , Ravager because they proc the passive Burning Light which is a direct damage hit .

Brrrofski

Liofa wrote: »

I came here to see people who would say Venomous Claw won't proc it because it is a DoT , completely ignoring the initial hit of it being direct damage . I am not disappointed .

What it means is , when you cast Venomous Claw , if you read the tooltip , it does an initial damage first and then starts ticking as DoT . If Ravager is not proccing from the first hit , that means it is bugged . Ticks cannot proc it because they are not direct damage , they count as DoT , which cannot proc Ravager .

About Jabs , they proc sets like Selene , Ravager because they proc the passive Burning Light which is a direct damage hit .

Bloodthorns touch is bugged to in the same way. It procs off a light resto attack, but not off crippling grasp, which does up front damage and then a dot.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Just want to point out for those that don't know, jabs is direct damage and damage over time. Each hit counts as both. Don't ask me why, but just check it yourself using the CPS that buff dot and direct, you'll see jabs increases from both stars.

It procs ravager, selenes, and is buffed by the orc passive. Flurry is only a dot, therefore would not proc it.

If I were a betting man, I'd say venom claw doesn't proc ravager because it's not physical damage. Idk why that's the case, but I'm almost certain that's why.

Does rending slashes initial hit proc ravager?

That would've been my guess too.

sevomd69

Liofa wrote: »

I came here to see people who would say Venomous Claw won't proc it because it is a DoT , completely ignoring the initial hit of it being direct damage . I am not disappointed .

What it means is , when you cast Venomous Claw , if you read the tooltip , it does an initial damage first and then starts ticking as DoT . If Ravager is not proccing from the first hit , that means it is bugged . Ticks cannot proc it because they are not direct damage , they count as DoT , which cannot proc Ravager .

About Jabs , they proc sets like Selene , Ravager because they proc the passive Burning Light which is a direct damage hit .

First hit Jabs and initial hit of reflective light as well as all the ticks all proc scathing that's why good for templars...

Savos_Saren

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Just want to point out for those that don't know, jabs is direct damage and damage over time. Each hit counts as both. Don't ask me why, but just check it yourself using the CPS that buff dot and direct, you'll see jabs increases from both stars.

It procs ravager, selenes, and is buffed by the orc passive. Flurry is only a dot, therefore would not proc it.

If I were a betting man, I'd say venom claw doesn't proc ravager because it's not physical damage. Idk why that's the case, but I'm almost certain that's why.

Does rending slashes initial hit proc ravager?

@WatchYourSixx

If that were the case- then Killer's Blade shouldn't procc Ravager... because it's Disease damage.

ParaNostram

The abilities that proc it require you to be in melee range for the ability to be doing damage. See flurry, jabs, those both require you to be in melee range for the entirety of it.

KingJ

jaburns wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Biting jabs is a channel channel proc skoria.Not sure why jabs proc ravager but claw is a dot and so doesnt proc ravager.

@ZOS_RichLambert can you clarify this?

It's Los logic doesnt make sense.

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

@jaburns @KingJ @Vapirko

Templar Aedric Spear Passive "Burning Light": When you deal damage with an Aedric Spear ability, you have a 25% chance to deal an additional X Physical Damage or X Magic Damage, whichever is higher. This effect can occur once every 0.5 seconds.

This passive proc counts as direct damage, allowing templars to proc DoT and DD effects from a single spell (jabs)

(it should still clarify that it means direct melee damage, if that's why it doesn't proc off of venomous claw)

I just upset jabs proc ravager more than surprise attack.

WatchYourSixx

Jabs procs ravager more because it has several hits that each can proc it, in addition to the burning light procs.

Dymence

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Because Twisted Path isn't a true dot. It doesn't stay attached to an enemy, but rather, only when they are within the path. So essentially they are taking direct damage every few seconds, as opposed to rending slash/venomous claw, which attach themselves to an enemy regardless of where they go.

Faulty logic, because then blockade from destro staves would've worked the same. Not to mention other ground target AOEs.