Why not post patch notes earlier?

Mystrius_Archaion

We're waiting for the patch and we have all this time while the servers are down, so why not post the patch notes for us to read and digest before the servers come back up so we can get right in as soon as possible?
Other games usually do it that way, and I, for one, am happier that way. Don't tell me the patch notes aren't complete as they have to be complete or the patch wouldn't be able to be pushed live.

How does everyone else feel?

TeIvanni

Hold patch notes back like they do now.

Well for these maintenance updates i think it makes sense for them to post the patch notes like they currently do.

For these maintenance updates, I assume they have things they want to address and change.

However they're usually not major issues, so if they don't get around to it, or there is an issue patching the game with the updates. They might just not do everything they want to on a given week.

Would be awkward for them if they posted patch notes, got in there, realized... you know what, we're not actually gonna change this/be able to change this this week.

I'm not a developer. But i assume patching the game is like surgery. You have a plan of what you want to do. But you won't know if it will work for sure until you actually get in there and start patching.

Better to just wait and release the patch notes once its pretty much done.

Mystrius_Archaion

Post patch notes soon after maintenance starts.

TeIvanni wrote: »

Well for these maintenance updates i think it makes sense for them to post the patch notes like they currently do.

For these maintenance updates, I assume they have things they want to address and change.

However they're usually not major issues, so if they don't get around to it, or there is an issue patching the game with the updates. They might just not do everything they want to on a given week.

Maybe I wasn't clear.
(Edit Vote how you want it to be, not how you think it has to be.)

Patch notes will be published, one way or the other, and the patch contents were already listed on a file likely at least 24 hours earlier and all bundled together as an all or nothing update. I'm just asking to be able to read them sooner rather than waiting until the very end of maintenance when servers go live and the possibility of somebody jumping on the game and finding "surprise! NERF!" and bug reporting and forum raging because they didn't expect it and think it was a mistake(or just hope it was).

After all, the servers are already down. It is impossible to exploit something with advance notice before the patch that fixes it while servers are down to patch. It's no longer advance notice.

Sergun

Post patch notes soon after maintenance starts.

ye , patch is ready 5 days ago

logarifmik

Post patch notes soon after maintenance starts.

Agreed! Even if not all listed changes and fixes will go live, it'll be great to read them till maintenance is in progress.

AzraelKrieg

Hold patch notes back like they do now.

logarifmik wrote: »

Agreed! Even if not all listed changes and fixes will go live, it'll be great to read them till maintenance is in progress.

The full patch not going live is the reason they don't release the patches ahead of time. Because people will get annoyed that something that was listed in the patch notes was not actually addressed.

TeIvanni

Hold patch notes back like they do now.

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

Agreed! Even if not all listed changes and fixes will go live, it'll be great to read them till maintenance is in progress.

The full patch not going live is the reason they don't release the patches ahead of time. Because people will get annoyed that something that was listed in the patch notes was not actually addressed.

pretty much what azrael is saying.

TeIvanni

Hold patch notes back like they do now.

Still... I'm surprised no one has started the "Natch Potes?" thread yet.

Its a forum tradition.

Thogard

Hold patch notes back like they do now.

because maybe they dont go into work until a normal time on monday morning?

The patch notes aren't written by the devs. Or the server maintenance people. They're written by the community relations people...

who dont work sunday at midnight lol.

FoolishHuman

Doesn't matter to me, I can't play the new patch when the server is down anyway.

Mystrius_Archaion

Post patch notes soon after maintenance starts.

Thogard wrote: »

because maybe they dont go into work until a normal time on monday morning?

The patch notes aren't written by the devs. Or the server maintenance people. They're written by the community relations people...

who dont work sunday at midnight lol.

1) They are informed and part of the decision team on what goes in the patch, and they can write the notes ahead of time.

2) The patch contents are decided by the end of the previous week, at the very latest. It's "set in stone", which allows notes to be written before the weekend and morning monday patch.

3) They're high enough rank to be salaried, meaning "on call" if need be.

4) Do you really know there schedule? Not every company keeps the same 9-5 days or sunday through saturday week. My company I work for switched to a "friday through thursday" week this year, and all employees are held to a 24/7, mostly, staffing schedule. I imagine they have somebody on duty in community relations during the proper time to post patch notes written up by someone else.

Narvuntien

Hold patch notes back like they do now.

I think it is a time zone issue. ZoS is based in the USA Maintenance goes overnight for them, then someone comes to work in the morning and puts up the patch notes.

Sergun

Post patch notes soon after maintenance starts.

Narvuntien wrote: »

I think it is a time zone issue. ZoS is based in the USA Maintenance goes overnight for them, then someone comes to work in the morning and puts up the patch notes.

Gina !!! Wake up

Mystrius_Archaion

Post patch notes soon after maintenance starts.

Vote how you want it to be, not how you think it has to be.

DRXHarbinger

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

Agreed! Even if not all listed changes and fixes will go live, it'll be great to read them till maintenance is in progress.

The full patch not going live is the reason they don't release the patches ahead of time. Because people will get annoyed that something that was listed in the patch notes was not actually addressed.

Exactly this, Patch gets deployed, some form of UAT involved after to make sure it's gone through then notes can be drawn up to mirror the deployment. Not difficult to understand at all, no reason to hate on it.

Or possibly, it's their house, their policy, their methods. I wouldn't change the way I work to appease a minority of people sitting at home staring at an in progress message for hours on end.

Mystrius_Archaion

Post patch notes soon after maintenance starts.

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

Agreed! Even if not all listed changes and fixes will go live, it'll be great to read them till maintenance is in progress.

The full patch not going live is the reason they don't release the patches ahead of time. Because people will get annoyed that something that was listed in the patch notes was not actually addressed.

Exactly this, Patch gets deployed, some form of UAT involved after to make sure it's gone through then notes can be drawn up to mirror the deployment.

That's not how it works though.
The patch notes and patch contents are decided well ahead of time, the previous week at the latest. If anything changes then they apply an extra fix patch that either reverts the offending change or adds more to it, usually as a hotfix after servers go live.

The only thing that can happen to a patch during patching maintenance is a major malfunction stopping the patch from being applied at all or another completely unrelated issue. In which case, the patch will still eventually go live with the exact same change notes.


So, the patch notes are already decided on ahead of time and posting them is just a timing choice.
Based on that, what timing would you prefer? When you could be playing the game and reading is just taking up your play time or when you're waiting to play as it patches? I prefer reading the notes while I wait so I can play immediately.

AzraelKrieg

Hold patch notes back like they do now.

The patch notes are decided ahead of time yes but there have been instances where there were things that were in the patch notes that didn't make it to the live servers and that has resulted in an edit being done after the fact. The patch notes are more than likely already up but they are in a hidden section of the forums until they are ready to be released.

Mystrius_Archaion

Post patch notes soon after maintenance starts.

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

The patch notes are decided ahead of time yes but there have been instances where there were things that were in the patch notes that didn't make it to the live servers and that has resulted in an edit being done after the fact. The patch notes are more than likely already up but they are in a hidden section of the forums until they are ready to be released.

So they already have done this even when they post the patch notes late?
1) That would have been a problem from the week before as well then because they were given an out of date version of the patch to base the notes on, not that the patch changed over the weekend or that morning.
2) Seems to support my point that they can, and do, post them and make edits later.

And yes, I forgot they likely are already up and hidden and should be released earlier.



And finally, do you disagree because you think it would be a problem to release them earlier than they do or because you don't want to see the patch notes earlier?
If the former, why? They should be able to release them a little earlier. If the latter, everyone has their opinion.

zaria

Post patch notes soon after maintenance starts.

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

The patch notes are decided ahead of time yes but there have been instances where there were things that were in the patch notes that didn't make it to the live servers and that has resulted in an edit being done after the fact. The patch notes are more than likely already up but they are in a hidden section of the forums until they are ready to be released.

If it made it trough internal testing and verification its included in patch.
Yes it might be things who not make that pass.

More likely its the work of writing it, then have some check it out.
the internal patch note is probably far more technical and includes various stuff who is rolled into general performance tweaks.

Demolitionary

Hold patch notes back like they do now.

TeIvanni wrote: »

Well for these maintenance updates i think it makes sense for them to post the patch notes like they currently do.

For these maintenance updates, I assume they have things they want to address and change.

However they're usually not major issues, so if they don't get around to it, or there is an issue patching the game with the updates. They might just not do everything they want to on a given week.

Would be awkward for them if they posted patch notes, got in there, realized... you know what, we're not actually gonna change this/be able to change this this week.

I'm not a developer. But i assume patching the game is like surgery. You have a plan of what you want to do. But you won't know if it will work for sure until you actually get in there and start patching.

Better to just wait and release the patch notes once its pretty much done.

I don't think many understand at all how it is when patching.
Being working along side dev teams for software many times, not everything they think will go into the patch will actually make it.

Yes they have a road map of what they want to put in, but, some things may have a undesirable side effect or just have no more time to put the minor stuff in.

Must
o
Should
Could
o
Would

Many dev methods are different but that is just an example. It is all about time, they may take longer than expected to put some things in so, Must goes first without a doubt and are a NEED to be basis unless another bug surfaces upon applying.
Should is next; "We should put this in and will find time to fit this in.
Could is minor but noticeable bug/feature, but only if there is some time left if all else goes well and on time, If not, it will be in Should next cycle, Would is last, no time in this cycle and is extremely minor and MAY be pushed into Could next cycle.

Take the above as a pinch of salt though, although the base MoSCoW in DSDM dev method is always there, many devs change this method to whatever suits the company best, some don't even use DSDM and use things like Hardcore which is crude but extremely effective in the right hands.

Many many devs don't release notes until after the patching. Many FTSE 500 businesses go this way too.

It is better to provide correct info that will not change(As it has already happened) than to provide information that will then change after the patch is applied, which is actually a bad thing and unprofessional in a way.

I for one would prefer 100% correct information over information that may and will change. What is the point in providing information that has a 70% chance to change upon patching? Pointless and a waste of resource and time, time that could be spent elsewhere while the patching is in motion.

Asardes

Hold patch notes back like they do now.

Maybe because they are still in the process of figuring out what to nerf/break next. Remember how the last major patch came with changes that were not even tested on PTS?

Mystrius_Archaion

Post patch notes soon after maintenance starts.

Demolitionary wrote: »

I don't think many understand at all how it is when patching.
Being working along side dev teams for software many times, not everything they think will go into the patch will actually make it.

Yes they have a road map of what they want to put in, but, some things may have a undesirable side effect or just have no more time to put the minor stuff in.

I don't think you understand your own point.
All that I have quoted above that you said all occur before any programs get taken down for the patch to be applied at that time.

Those decisions about what makes the cut and what doesn't have already taken place. We have a set in stone list now. We just can't see it yet because nobody has hit "new discussion" and "save comment" yet, or hit "make visible" if they have it posted but hidden.

I just want to read it while I wait for the patch and plan my gameplay accordingly. I don't want to have to wait until I should be playing to read notes to find out what I should look for that changed so I can plan around it. I want to play ASAP.

DRXHarbinger

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

Agreed! Even if not all listed changes and fixes will go live, it'll be great to read them till maintenance is in progress.

The full patch not going live is the reason they don't release the patches ahead of time. Because people will get annoyed that something that was listed in the patch notes was not actually addressed.

Exactly this, Patch gets deployed, some form of UAT involved after to make sure it's gone through then notes can be drawn up to mirror the deployment.

That's not how it works though.
The patch notes and patch contents are decided well ahead of time, the previous week at the latest. If anything changes then they apply an extra fix patch that either reverts the offending change or adds more to it, usually as a hotfix after servers go live.

The only thing that can happen to a patch during patching maintenance is a major malfunction stopping the patch from being applied at all or another completely unrelated issue. In which case, the patch will still eventually go live with the exact same change notes.


So, the patch notes are already decided on ahead of time and posting them is just a timing choice.
Based on that, what timing would you prefer? When you could be playing the game and reading is just taking up your play time or when you're waiting to play as it patches? I prefer reading the notes while I wait so I can play immediately.

This is exactly how it is....because zos have said several times. Not sure why you disagree.

Not sure why it's such a burning issue to play immediately. You can read incremental patch notes whilst the game boots up...nothing ground breaking is going to drop today.

Mystrius_Archaion

Post patch notes soon after maintenance starts.

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

Agreed! Even if not all listed changes and fixes will go live, it'll be great to read them till maintenance is in progress.

The full patch not going live is the reason they don't release the patches ahead of time. Because people will get annoyed that something that was listed in the patch notes was not actually addressed.

Exactly this, Patch gets deployed, some form of UAT involved after to make sure it's gone through then notes can be drawn up to mirror the deployment.

That's not how it works though.
The patch notes and patch contents are decided well ahead of time, the previous week at the latest. If anything changes then they apply an extra fix patch that either reverts the offending change or adds more to it, usually as a hotfix after servers go live.

The only thing that can happen to a patch during patching maintenance is a major malfunction stopping the patch from being applied at all or another completely unrelated issue. In which case, the patch will still eventually go live with the exact same change notes.


So, the patch notes are already decided on ahead of time and posting them is just a timing choice.
Based on that, what timing would you prefer? When you could be playing the game and reading is just taking up your play time or when you're waiting to play as it patches? I prefer reading the notes while I wait so I can play immediately.

This is exactly how it is....because zos have said several times. Not sure why you disagree.

Not sure why it's such a burning issue to play immediately. You can read incremental patch notes whilst the game boots up...nothing ground breaking is going to drop today.

I want to read the notes immediately. I have no choice about waiting to play, but there is no reason to delay the notes now that the patch is being written to the server after all decisions have been made and they can keep it down however long they want to ensure every last detail gets in.

And no, the incremental patch notes you read on the launcher or the forums are from weeks ago. The last one being August 28th.
Also, some bigger things do change, especially if they notice an exploit they need to correct that may cause something to not work correctly until they can patch in a better fix. And no, that's not a last second decision. They just release a bandaid fix that they know how to do while they figure out how to fix it the right way, nothing half-baked on a list they can decide whether or not to keep it because they would patch it fully if they knew how and had ti tested already.

Turelus

Hold patch notes back like they do now.

Things can change, better they post what happens than what should happen then have to amend it causing rage because they didn't deliver on something.

Also then you would remove the Natch Potes? meme and threads, you want to kill all our fun?

Tandor

Hold patch notes back like they do now.

Do people really get uptight over something like patch notes not coming out until shortly before the patch goes live? Get a life!

Mystrius_Archaion

Post patch notes soon after maintenance starts.

Turelus wrote: »

Things can change, better they post what happens than what should happen then have to amend it causing rage because they didn't deliver on something.

Also then you would remove the Natch Potes? meme and threads, you want to kill all our fun?

1) It's already happening.
The steak is cooked and on its way to your table. Time for the waiter to at least tell you what you are getting after you said "surprise me".

2) The patch notes and full patch data was already decided, likely on Friday, and just has not been shown to us yet. There is no changing it now.
The only thing that could change is that they have to redo the patch and keep the servers down longer to do so if somebody hits the wrong button and instead of applying patch formats the server drives. FYI, that happened to Everquest and was a story in the now defunct magazine Massively or whatever: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMO_Games_Magazine

Demolitionary

Hold patch notes back like they do now.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Demolitionary wrote: »

I don't think many understand at all how it is when patching.
Being working along side dev teams for software many times, not everything they think will go into the patch will actually make it.

Yes they have a road map of what they want to put in, but, some things may have a undesirable side effect or just have no more time to put the minor stuff in.

I don't think you understand your own point.
All that I have quoted above that you said all occur before any programs get taken down for the patch to be applied at that time.

Those decisions about what makes the cut and what doesn't have already taken place. We have a set in stone list now. We just can't see it yet because nobody has hit "new discussion" and "save comment" yet, or hit "make visible" if they have it posted but hidden.

I just want to read it while I wait for the patch and plan my gameplay accordingly. I don't want to have to wait until I should be playing to read notes to find out what I should look for that changed so I can plan around it. I want to play ASAP.

I understand my own point completely, because I have worked with dev teams and still do.

You really don't understand at all with that response and clearly you didn't read all of the post. Yes some decisions are made already but sometimes/ a lot of the time with ZoS, some things don't make it because things took longer than expected or a change while patching caused some other bug which they don't want in the game ect so they have to change the patch notes accordingly, so it is more effective to send out patch notes after the patch so the information is 100%.

You are making out like the game is a full time job, it isn't. Most people will read the patch notes during downloading or during a break at work. So it isn't really impeding with "game time".

Can't really explain a thing to the completely naive and self entitled I guess...

Sergun

Post patch notes soon after maintenance starts.

fat-ass-team is coming as soon as possible

anitajoneb17_ESO

Hold patch notes back like they do now.

Turelus wrote: »

Things can change, better they post what happens than what should happen then have to amend it causing rage because they didn't deliver on something.

Also then you would remove the Natch Potes? meme and threads, you want to kill all our fun?

It's better to quote someone who expressed something perfectly than saying the same thing in a less brilliant form ;-)

EDIT : let's rephrase that one : How does @Turelus manage to say it all in two simple sentences ? Just quoted of truth ;-)

Sergun

Post patch notes soon after maintenance starts.

main server at usa