Work in progress Stam NB

KingJ

Trashs1 wrote: »

that thing with armour of the truth and tactican is really interesting.

could anyone do a test if its working or not? (dont have the set)

I wanted to try it and talked to @Xvorg about it at the time he told me it wasn't working.

It could be a very intresting set combine it with Bone pirate so you can have robust jewlery or a senche with recovery jewlery would hit very hard.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

KingJ wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

@deepseamk20b14_ESO tactician doesn't work with armor of truth they never fixed it was brought up in its around Morrowwind.

Really? I just watched a video posted a couple of days ago from a guy and it's from the HotR DLC and he was getting the set to proc using tactician. You sure it wasn't fixed?

Maybe theystealth fixed It but don't remember them saying anything about it in the patch notes.

Well, it is ZOS we are talking about here hahaha.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

KingJ wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

that thing with armour of the truth and tactican is really interesting.

could anyone do a test if its working or not? (dont have the set)

I wanted to try it and talked to @Xvorg about it at the time he told me it wasn't working.

It could be a very intresting set combine it with Bone pirate so you can have robust jewlery or a senche with recovery jewlery would hit very hard.

It would hit like a freaking truck!

leem1988

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

that thing with armour of the truth and tactican is really interesting.

could anyone do a test if its working or not? (dont have the set)

I wanted to try it and talked to @Xvorg about it at the time he told me it wasn't working.

It could be a very intresting set combine it with Bone pirate so you can have robust jewlery or a senche with recovery jewlery would hit very hard.

It would hit like a freaking truck!

I thought about pairing truth with hundings, but senche seems like the better option.

Unfadingsilence

leem1988 wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

that thing with armour of the truth and tactican is really interesting.

could anyone do a test if its working or not? (dont have the set)

I wanted to try it and talked to @Xvorg about it at the time he told me it wasn't working.

It could be a very intresting set combine it with Bone pirate so you can have robust jewlery or a senche with recovery jewlery would hit very hard.

It would hit like a freaking truck!

I thought about pairing truth with hundings, but senche seems like the better option.

I'm in the process of trying that set out as well but currently I'm enjoying my set up right now here is the full set up CP and all and full buffed stats I just need to gold out the gear and get the gold Jewellery

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/UnfadingSilence/video/36376705

Unfadingsilence

runningtings wrote: »

i like it, am going to try this out myself, impressive stats.

Need gold gear and jewellery but here is the set up with CP included

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/UnfadingSilence/video/36376705

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Putting truth with hundings is just way to low recovery in my eyes, under 2k even if using the serpent and aren't a wood elf/vamp. Bone pirate gives near 4.2 stamina and 279 stamina recovery. With this you can use the warrior mundus and keep jewelery with all weapon damage enchants.

senche would be a better option than hundings. Keep serpent stone but the extra damage from the 5 pc bonus would be better.

Jjitsuboy98

So what's better senche and hundings or senche with bone pirate?

KingJ

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Putting truth with hundings is just way to low recovery in my eyes, under 2k even if using the serpent and aren't a wood elf/vamp. Bone pirate gives near 4.2 stamina and 279 stamina recovery. With this you can use the warrior mundus and keep jewelery with all weapon damage enchants.

senche would be a better option than hundings. Keep serpent stone but the extra damage from the 5 pc bonus would be better.

@deepseamk20b14_ESO you could also combine it with way of the air more stam recovery which would allow you to put damage on your jewlery.But less weapon crit which sucks.Could make it a 2h/bow build run senche on your bow bar.

DDuke

Meh, regen is really a matter of playstyle - you can make any amount of regen work by adjusting it.

Low regen, high dmg=more heavy attacks, more burst, more healing, less dodging, less sustained dmg
High regen, low dmg=more light attacks more dodging, more sustained dmg, less burst, less healing


It's been a while since I tested Senche. Do you still get the buff at the beginning of dodge roll animation, or after the animation has finished?

That's what initially put me off about the set - you'd actually get only around 3 seconds of buffed weapon dmg/crit and that means it's impossible to have 100% uptime due to the stacking modifier being on 4s cooldown.

That, and the fact that very often you can't dodge roll without losing momentum if you've got your opponent pressured & are weaving light attacks, perhaps preparing an incap combo.


Personally Selene+Hunding's+Sheer Venom has been doing well for me, but I realize that's not for everyone.

Izaki

Ditch Senche for something better. Its an okay set, but there's better stuff out there.
Obviously Bone Pirate is great. Shacklebreaker is also very neat.
Two Fanged Snake is actually amazing in PvP, the stacks build up really quickly and as long as you have at least 1 DoT ticking on any of the targets you're facing you won't lose the 4.3k penetration. And it gives a crit bonus which makes it way better than Spriggan (not to mention the fact that its max penetration is almost 1k higher).

Or if you want to keep going down the proc set road... Ophidian Venom is insane. Pair that proc with an Infused Poison enchant and you can get some insane damage with your light and heavy attacks.

Just a few ideas. But Senche really isn't that great IMO, the damage proc doesn't last long enough and I personally hate roll dodging without the need for it.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

KingJ wrote: »

you could also combine it with way of the air more stam recovery which would allow you to put damage on your jewlery.But less weapon crit which sucks.Could make it a 2h/bow build run senche on your bow bar.

Yeah, you could go way of air. As a wood elf i can make senche work with all the extra regen. Honestly not even worried about crit. Everyone runs impen and though crit works well for heals NB gets 100% crit chance on rally heal and all vigor ticks while cloaked.

BTW, just tested armor of truth with tactician passive. Can confirm it works when dodging and enemy attack.

Izaki

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

you could also combine it with way of the air more stam recovery which would allow you to put damage on your jewlery.But less weapon crit which sucks.Could make it a 2h/bow build run senche on your bow bar.

Yeah, you could go way of air. As a wood elf i can make senche work with all the extra regen. Honestly not even worried about crit. Everyone runs impen and though crit works well for heals NB gets 100% crit chance on rally heal and all vigor ticks while cloaked.

BTW, just tested armor of truth with tactician passive. Can confirm it works when dodging and enemy attack.

People saying that crit isn't important kinda makes me laugh.

1. Why waste a morph on having a guaranteed crit instead of some pretty hefty damage mitigation for after when your cloak bugs out? With 60% Crit chance your Vigor and Rally is going to heal you just fine. Cloak is far too buggy to rely on it to heal yourself. Much better to use Dark Cloak and get some mitigation when you get pulled out.
2. The more you crit, the more likely you're to burst down your target on the first try with the least amount of effort which allows you to move on to the next target.
3. Impen or not, stacking Crit Damage is just as easy as stacking Impen. In fact its easier, especially as a NB. I for one, have a 100% crit damage multiplier meaning that my crits hit twice as hard as my normal attacks. Against someone with full impen and 50 points into resistant, I'll still have about 40% crit damage. Who needs proc sets when you can land 8k Surprise Attacks? You can't rely on that sort of burst without having a high crit chance and a high crit damage multiplier.

DDuke

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

you could also combine it with way of the air more stam recovery which would allow you to put damage on your jewlery.But less weapon crit which sucks.Could make it a 2h/bow build run senche on your bow bar.

Yeah, you could go way of air. As a wood elf i can make senche work with all the extra regen. Honestly not even worried about crit. Everyone runs impen and though crit works well for heals NB gets 100% crit chance on rally heal and all vigor ticks while cloaked.

BTW, just tested armor of truth with tactician passive. Can confirm it works when dodging and enemy attack.

PSA: you might want to reconsider running the Shadowy Disguise morph:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/367271/dot-ticks-ruin-shadowy-disguise

deepseamk20b14_ESO

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

you could also combine it with way of the air more stam recovery which would allow you to put damage on your jewlery.But less weapon crit which sucks.Could make it a 2h/bow build run senche on your bow bar.

Yeah, you could go way of air. As a wood elf i can make senche work with all the extra regen. Honestly not even worried about crit. Everyone runs impen and though crit works well for heals NB gets 100% crit chance on rally heal and all vigor ticks while cloaked.

BTW, just tested armor of truth with tactician passive. Can confirm it works when dodging and enemy attack.

People saying that crit isn't important kinda makes me laugh.

1. Why waste a morph on having a guaranteed crit instead of some pretty hefty damage mitigation for after when your cloak bugs out? With 60% Crit chance your Vigor and Rally is going to heal you just fine. Cloak is far too buggy to rely on it to heal yourself. Much better to use Dark Cloak and get some mitigation when you get pulled out.
2. The more you crit, the more likely you're to burst down your target on the first try with the least amount of effort which allows you to move on to the next target.
3. Impen or not, stacking Crit Damage is just as easy as stacking Impen. In fact its easier, especially as a NB. I for one, have a 100% crit damage multiplier meaning that my crits hit twice as hard as my normal attacks. Against someone with full impen and 50 points into resistant, I'll still have about 40% crit damage. Who needs proc sets when you can land 8k Surprise Attacks? You can't rely on that sort of burst without having a high crit chance and a high crit damage multiplier.

1. My mitigation is equal to someone in full heavy armor and shield and I'm in full medium, 8% extra mitigation is nothing useful to me. I'd rather have damage.

2. Crit damage, even negated by impen is still higher than normal. Yes I agree on that point. However, there will be no "next target" if you don't have sustain. Sustain > crit in PvP any day of the week. Good luck landing single target attack crits when I'm dodging them constantly without running out of stamina.

3. If your crit multiplier is that high you are severely lacking in other areas. If it was that useful every build out there would put all CP into crit damage and people would build around it more. That's simply not the case.

Survivability, consistent damage, and sustain > crit. Every time.

And as far as running shadowy disguise....dude I've been running it for a long time, even before the change to dark cloak and everyone used that. I've had little problem with it. I've found that 99% of the issues people have with either morph of cloak is self imposed. My shadowy disguise works damn near flawlessly (it still breaks of sheer venom tick is on me but that's it). If cloaks breaks, learn to use it. It took me awhile to figure out the issue, but I have and it works fine. They certaintly could tweak it to make it more user friendly, but it works for me.

KingJ

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

you could also combine it with way of the air more stam recovery which would allow you to put damage on your jewlery.But less weapon crit which sucks.Could make it a 2h/bow build run senche on your bow bar.

Yeah, you could go way of air. As a wood elf i can make senche work with all the extra regen. Honestly not even worried about crit. Everyone runs impen and though crit works well for heals NB gets 100% crit chance on rally heal and all vigor ticks while cloaked.

BTW, just tested armor of truth with tactician passive. Can confirm it works when dodging and enemy attack.

Your sleeping on crit its very important man.I like raw damage for when I face sorcs.

DDuke

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

And as far as running shadowy disguise....dude I've been running it for a long time, even before the change to dark cloak and everyone used that. I've had little problem with it. I've found that 99% of the issues people have with either morph of cloak is self imposed. My shadowy disguise works damn near flawlessly (it still breaks of sheer venom tick is on me but that's it). If cloaks breaks, learn to use it. It took me awhile to figure out the issue, but I have and it works fine. They certaintly could tweak it to make it more user friendly, but it works for me.

That's not what I meant (though it often still breaks when it shouldn't).

What I meant is that the morph Shadowy Disguise is broken and doesn't actually give you guaranteed crits on either heals or your next damaging attack if you have a DoT on target.

One PI or axe bleed tick and the buff is consumed and the morph is rendered useless, essentially giving you no benefit whatsoever.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

DDuke wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

And as far as running shadowy disguise....dude I've been running it for a long time, even before the change to dark cloak and everyone used that. I've had little problem with it. I've found that 99% of the issues people have with either morph of cloak is self imposed. My shadowy disguise works damn near flawlessly (it still breaks of sheer venom tick is on me but that's it). If cloaks breaks, learn to use it. It took me awhile to figure out the issue, but I have and it works fine. They certaintly could tweak it to make it more user friendly, but it works for me.

That's not what I meant (though it often still breaks when it shouldn't).

What I meant is that the morph Shadowy Disguise is broken and doesn't actually give you guaranteed crits on either heals or your next damaging attack if you have a DoT on target.

One PI or axe bleed tick and the buff is consumed and the morph is rendered useless, essentially giving you no benefit whatsoever.

I'll have to check it out. I normally run shadow image, I wonder if that will mess with it since it's technically a DoT.

And KingJ, but you can't crit shields and even without high crit you should be able to burst them down when you finally get passed their shields. Well timed attacks of course.

I have 5 pieces of armor of truth ATM for testing purposes but not the pieces I want. Still need a necklace to be complete how I want it. Going to try it with both bone pirate and senche. With senche and a crit pot I'll hit 59% crit I believe. With bone pirate I hit only 52% with crit pot. Not terrible just not as high.

Looks like I'm a bit low on stamina recovery if using senche with warrior but it might be manageable. When popping a pot it's around 2350 recovery. With the serpent I hit just over 2600 without popping a pot, I just lose that nice damage boost from the warrior mundus.

With bone pirate and warrior mundus I'm hitting over 2400 recovery without popping a pot.

Rounding up of course:

The way I'm looking at it is bone pirate nets 4200 stam, 279 recovery, 238 weapon damage. Warrior mundus. Comfortable amount of total recovery.

Senche 1100 stamina, 367 recovery, 430 weapon damage, 6% crit (I think?). Serpent mundus. Even more recovery.

Per tool tip the armor of truth/bone pirate does hit harder and heals more. However the armor of truth/senche has slightly higher burst potential due to a bit higher crit which can also lead to slightly better heals, and also better recovery.

I'm also planning on trying AoT/senche with dubious camoran throne. Recovery will still be fine but more health and more damage compared to the blue drink I normally run. It's just hard for me to lose all that magicka recovery because it's just so nice!

Jjitsuboy98

Do you guys ever run shield breaker? Been messing around with it lately as I have been frustrated with shields.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Just tested several DoTs with shadowy disguise with vigor and rally ticking in background and they still all crit. There are no issues like the linked post suggests.

Shield breaker is a novelty set in my opinion. You nerf yourself against most of the players in cyrodiil. I'd rather put some CP into shattering blows then have some sets that give massive damage and go through shields like a hot knife through butter. Personally I use spectral bow to take out shields then use IC after they are down. Just watch the shield user absolutely melt.

Tormy

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

Do you guys ever run shield breaker? Been messing around with it lately as I have been frustrated with shields.

Yea I run spriggans 2h front bar and shieldbreaker bow on back. Wrecks sorcs

DDuke

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Just tested several DoTs with shadowy disguise with vigor and rally ticking in background and they still all crit. There are no issues like the linked post suggests.

Shield breaker is a novelty set in my opinion. You nerf yourself against most of the players in cyrodiil. I'd rather put some CP into shattering blows then have some sets that give massive damage and go through shields like a hot knife through butter. Personally I use spectral bow to take out shields then use IC after they are down. Just watch the shield user absolutely melt.

Really? I just tested it about a month ago and it did consume the crit buff every time a Poison Injection or axe bleed ticked while I was cloaked. I guess I'll have to test it again in case they've ninja fixed it.

I tested it in a duel btw, dunno if that makes a difference (Shadow Image for example is bugged and keeps shooting at cloaked targets in duels, but works fine in Cyrodiil).

deepseamk20b14_ESO

DDuke wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Just tested several DoTs with shadowy disguise with vigor and rally ticking in background and they still all crit. There are no issues like the linked post suggests.

Shield breaker is a novelty set in my opinion. You nerf yourself against most of the players in cyrodiil. I'd rather put some CP into shattering blows then have some sets that give massive damage and go through shields like a hot knife through butter. Personally I use spectral bow to take out shields then use IC after they are down. Just watch the shield user absolutely melt.

Really? I just tested it about a month ago and it did consume the crit buff every time a Poison Injection or axe bleed ticked while I was cloaked. I guess I'll have to test it again in case they've ninja fixed it.

I tested it in a duel btw, dunno if that makes a difference (Shadow Image for example is bugged and keeps shooting at cloaked targets in duels, but works fine in Cyrodiil).

The DoTs I tested were rending slash and shadow image. Those are the only ones I really use. They seemed to work fine. Gave each one a try 5 or 6 times to make sure it wasn't just a fluke. Rending slash was on mobs not another player, but I can confirm shadow image doesn't consume the crit when used against a player in cyrodiil. Not sure about in duels.

Izaki

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

you could also combine it with way of the air more stam recovery which would allow you to put damage on your jewlery.But less weapon crit which sucks.Could make it a 2h/bow build run senche on your bow bar.

Yeah, you could go way of air. As a wood elf i can make senche work with all the extra regen. Honestly not even worried about crit. Everyone runs impen and though crit works well for heals NB gets 100% crit chance on rally heal and all vigor ticks while cloaked.

BTW, just tested armor of truth with tactician passive. Can confirm it works when dodging and enemy attack.

People saying that crit isn't important kinda makes me laugh.

1. Why waste a morph on having a guaranteed crit instead of some pretty hefty damage mitigation for after when your cloak bugs out? With 60% Crit chance your Vigor and Rally is going to heal you just fine. Cloak is far too buggy to rely on it to heal yourself. Much better to use Dark Cloak and get some mitigation when you get pulled out.
2. The more you crit, the more likely you're to burst down your target on the first try with the least amount of effort which allows you to move on to the next target.
3. Impen or not, stacking Crit Damage is just as easy as stacking Impen. In fact its easier, especially as a NB. I for one, have a 100% crit damage multiplier meaning that my crits hit twice as hard as my normal attacks. Against someone with full impen and 50 points into resistant, I'll still have about 40% crit damage. Who needs proc sets when you can land 8k Surprise Attacks? You can't rely on that sort of burst without having a high crit chance and a high crit damage multiplier.

1. My mitigation is equal to someone in full heavy armor and shield and I'm in full medium, 8% extra mitigation is nothing useful to me. I'd rather have damage.

2. Crit damage, even negated by impen is still higher than normal. Yes I agree on that point. However, there will be no "next target" if you don't have sustain. Sustain > crit in PvP any day of the week. Good luck landing single target attack crits when I'm dodging them constantly without running out of stamina.

3. If your crit multiplier is that high you are severely lacking in other areas. If it was that useful every build out there would put all CP into crit damage and people would build around it more. That's simply not the case.

Survivability, consistent damage, and sustain > crit. Every time.

And as far as running shadowy disguise....dude I've been running it for a long time, even before the change to dark cloak and everyone used that. I've had little problem with it. I've found that 99% of the issues people have with either morph of cloak is self imposed. My shadowy disguise works damn near flawlessly (it still breaks of sheer venom tick is on me but that's it). If cloaks breaks, learn to use it. It took me awhile to figure out the issue, but I have and it works fine. They certaintly could tweak it to make it more user friendly, but it works for me.

1. You might have the resistances, yet you're not in heavy armor. You don't have the health passives, the healing passives or the health regeneration passives. Resistances are one thing, but medium armor will never come close to heavy armor in terms of mitigation in its current state.

2. Sustain vs crit... That's a new one. Precise Strikes isn't in the same tree as Tumbling, Warlord, Tenacity, Mooncalf or Shadow Ward. There is no drink or food that sacrifices crit for recovery. You don't get Sustain and Crit damage from the same sources, so one does not influence the other. And I mean, if another nightblade dodges everything like a monkey, it means he's on the defensive, and a nightblade on the defensive, no matter how much sustain or resistances he has, will never end up winning a fight.

3. I'm not lacking in any other areas, I just have a few points into Precise Strikes (20% to be exact) and I use Rearming Trap on top of the Shadow mundus. There's nothing to lack in other areas since I'm not investing much at all. I'm using Crit Rush since I'm so focused on crit damage, which synergizes pretty well with my build. My crit is at around 61% which is more than enough for good healing and good burst. Oh wait, you're right I am lacking one thing: Shuffle. Not exactly lacking though, it was a concious choice to leave it out. And you're not the only one to wear Bloodspawn on your nightblade, its actually pretty common these days to have the same resistances in medium as you do in heavy.

Cloak... I mean, you're in Cloak, right? You heal to full health in both cases, be it Shadowy Disguise or Dark Cloak, you're going to be at full health by the time it ends, what's better afterwards? To have a guaranteed crit on the next hit or 8% less damage taken from all sources for 5 seconds? Now obviously, in both have their advantages. In my opinion, Shadowy Disguise is better if there are few targets on you (I'd say 3 tops), Dark Cloak is better if there are more than 3 people on you. I still think its a waste of a morph if you have over 60% crit chance.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

you could also combine it with way of the air more stam recovery which would allow you to put damage on your jewlery.But less weapon crit which sucks.Could make it a 2h/bow build run senche on your bow bar.

Yeah, you could go way of air. As a wood elf i can make senche work with all the extra regen. Honestly not even worried about crit. Everyone runs impen and though crit works well for heals NB gets 100% crit chance on rally heal and all vigor ticks while cloaked.

BTW, just tested armor of truth with tactician passive. Can confirm it works when dodging and enemy attack.

People saying that crit isn't important kinda makes me laugh.

1. Why waste a morph on having a guaranteed crit instead of some pretty hefty damage mitigation for after when your cloak bugs out? With 60% Crit chance your Vigor and Rally is going to heal you just fine. Cloak is far too buggy to rely on it to heal yourself. Much better to use Dark Cloak and get some mitigation when you get pulled out.
2. The more you crit, the more likely you're to burst down your target on the first try with the least amount of effort which allows you to move on to the next target.
3. Impen or not, stacking Crit Damage is just as easy as stacking Impen. In fact its easier, especially as a NB. I for one, have a 100% crit damage multiplier meaning that my crits hit twice as hard as my normal attacks. Against someone with full impen and 50 points into resistant, I'll still have about 40% crit damage. Who needs proc sets when you can land 8k Surprise Attacks? You can't rely on that sort of burst without having a high crit chance and a high crit damage multiplier.

1. My mitigation is equal to someone in full heavy armor and shield and I'm in full medium, 8% extra mitigation is nothing useful to me. I'd rather have damage.

2. Crit damage, even negated by impen is still higher than normal. Yes I agree on that point. However, there will be no "next target" if you don't have sustain. Sustain > crit in PvP any day of the week. Good luck landing single target attack crits when I'm dodging them constantly without running out of stamina.

3. If your crit multiplier is that high you are severely lacking in other areas. If it was that useful every build out there would put all CP into crit damage and people would build around it more. That's simply not the case.

Survivability, consistent damage, and sustain > crit. Every time.

And as far as running shadowy disguise....dude I've been running it for a long time, even before the change to dark cloak and everyone used that. I've had little problem with it. I've found that 99% of the issues people have with either morph of cloak is self imposed. My shadowy disguise works damn near flawlessly (it still breaks of sheer venom tick is on me but that's it). If cloaks breaks, learn to use it. It took me awhile to figure out the issue, but I have and it works fine. They certaintly could tweak it to make it more user friendly, but it works for me.

1. You might have the resistances, yet you're not in heavy armor. You don't have the health passives, the healing passives or the health regeneration passives. Resistances are one thing, but medium armor will never come close to heavy armor in terms of mitigation in its current state.

2. Sustain vs crit... That's a new one. Precise Strikes isn't in the same tree as Tumbling, Warlord, Tenacity, Mooncalf or Shadow Ward. There is no drink or food that sacrifices crit for recovery. You don't get Sustain and Crit damage from the same sources, so one does not influence the other. And I mean, if another nightblade dodges everything like a monkey, it means he's on the defensive, and a nightblade on the defensive, no matter how much sustain or resistances he has, will never end up winning a fight.

3. I'm not lacking in any other areas, I just have a few points into Precise Strikes (20% to be exact) and I use Rearming Trap on top of the Shadow mundus. There's nothing to lack in other areas since I'm not investing much at all. I'm using Crit Rush since I'm so focused on crit damage, which synergizes pretty well with my build. My crit is at around 61% which is more than enough for good healing and good burst. Oh wait, you're right I am lacking one thing: Shuffle. Not exactly lacking though, it was a concious choice to leave it out. And you're not the only one to wear Bloodspawn on your nightblade, its actually pretty common these days to have the same resistances in medium as you do in heavy.

Cloak... I mean, you're in Cloak, right? You heal to full health in both cases, be it Shadowy Disguise or Dark Cloak, you're going to be at full health by the time it ends, what's better afterwards? To have a guaranteed crit on the next hit or 8% less damage taken from all sources for 5 seconds? Now obviously, in both have their advantages. In my opinion, Shadowy Disguise is better if there are few targets on you (I'd say 3 tops), Dark Cloak is better if there are more than 3 people on you. I still think its a waste of a morph if you have over 60% crit chance.

Lacking as in if you're focusing on armor with crit stats you're probably losing out on either sustain or straight damage. Not talking about CP, though I would also argue mundus, but I do like the shadow from time to time as well.

40% (at 26k resist) damage mitigation is better than 24% (avg medium armor resist total) damage mitigation, healing passive or not. You can't even argue that.

And 8% from dark cloak for how many seconds after cloak wears off? You cloak just to expect to get hit? Not the best use of invisibility IMO, but I get it. Dark cloak is decent in a heavy armor build because of passives but in a medium armor build no thanks, that's just me.

And back to full health? No way. My vigor crits at almost 3k a tick. Non crit not even close. I'll get back closer to full HP in one cloak where it would take two without 100% crit ticks.

And dodge rolling means on the defensive? I have to disagree there as well. animation canceling using dodge roll goes a long way. Offense and defense same exact time, and I can do it over and over with my sustain. Since I use blade cloak I'm barely even worried about AoE damage either since we know how ZOS loves their undodgable attacks.

sustain>crit or do you think your crits will save you against a shield stacker?

deepseamk20b14_ESO

And I'm not saying crit isn't important. A crit attack, even mitigated by crit resist still hits harder than a non crit. I'm just saying sustain is more important.

Izaki

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

And I'm not saying crit isn't important. A crit attack, even mitigated by crit resist still hits harder than a non crit. I'm just saying sustain is more important.

Like I said, you don't get crit damage and sustain from the same sources. So one does not affect your ability to have the other. So saying that sustain is more important than crit basically does not make any sense, since you can have high amounts of both without investing much. Hell, even crit chance is easy to get without any actual Crit bonuses on your gear.

Izaki

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

you could also combine it with way of the air more stam recovery which would allow you to put damage on your jewlery.But less weapon crit which sucks.Could make it a 2h/bow build run senche on your bow bar.

Yeah, you could go way of air. As a wood elf i can make senche work with all the extra regen. Honestly not even worried about crit. Everyone runs impen and though crit works well for heals NB gets 100% crit chance on rally heal and all vigor ticks while cloaked.

BTW, just tested armor of truth with tactician passive. Can confirm it works when dodging and enemy attack.

People saying that crit isn't important kinda makes me laugh.

1. Why waste a morph on having a guaranteed crit instead of some pretty hefty damage mitigation for after when your cloak bugs out? With 60% Crit chance your Vigor and Rally is going to heal you just fine. Cloak is far too buggy to rely on it to heal yourself. Much better to use Dark Cloak and get some mitigation when you get pulled out.
2. The more you crit, the more likely you're to burst down your target on the first try with the least amount of effort which allows you to move on to the next target.
3. Impen or not, stacking Crit Damage is just as easy as stacking Impen. In fact its easier, especially as a NB. I for one, have a 100% crit damage multiplier meaning that my crits hit twice as hard as my normal attacks. Against someone with full impen and 50 points into resistant, I'll still have about 40% crit damage. Who needs proc sets when you can land 8k Surprise Attacks? You can't rely on that sort of burst without having a high crit chance and a high crit damage multiplier.

1. My mitigation is equal to someone in full heavy armor and shield and I'm in full medium, 8% extra mitigation is nothing useful to me. I'd rather have damage.

2. Crit damage, even negated by impen is still higher than normal. Yes I agree on that point. However, there will be no "next target" if you don't have sustain. Sustain > crit in PvP any day of the week. Good luck landing single target attack crits when I'm dodging them constantly without running out of stamina.

3. If your crit multiplier is that high you are severely lacking in other areas. If it was that useful every build out there would put all CP into crit damage and people would build around it more. That's simply not the case.

Survivability, consistent damage, and sustain > crit. Every time.

And as far as running shadowy disguise....dude I've been running it for a long time, even before the change to dark cloak and everyone used that. I've had little problem with it. I've found that 99% of the issues people have with either morph of cloak is self imposed. My shadowy disguise works damn near flawlessly (it still breaks of sheer venom tick is on me but that's it). If cloaks breaks, learn to use it. It took me awhile to figure out the issue, but I have and it works fine. They certaintly could tweak it to make it more user friendly, but it works for me.

1. You might have the resistances, yet you're not in heavy armor. You don't have the health passives, the healing passives or the health regeneration passives. Resistances are one thing, but medium armor will never come close to heavy armor in terms of mitigation in its current state.

2. Sustain vs crit... That's a new one. Precise Strikes isn't in the same tree as Tumbling, Warlord, Tenacity, Mooncalf or Shadow Ward. There is no drink or food that sacrifices crit for recovery. You don't get Sustain and Crit damage from the same sources, so one does not influence the other. And I mean, if another nightblade dodges everything like a monkey, it means he's on the defensive, and a nightblade on the defensive, no matter how much sustain or resistances he has, will never end up winning a fight.

3. I'm not lacking in any other areas, I just have a few points into Precise Strikes (20% to be exact) and I use Rearming Trap on top of the Shadow mundus. There's nothing to lack in other areas since I'm not investing much at all. I'm using Crit Rush since I'm so focused on crit damage, which synergizes pretty well with my build. My crit is at around 61% which is more than enough for good healing and good burst. Oh wait, you're right I am lacking one thing: Shuffle. Not exactly lacking though, it was a concious choice to leave it out. And you're not the only one to wear Bloodspawn on your nightblade, its actually pretty common these days to have the same resistances in medium as you do in heavy.

Cloak... I mean, you're in Cloak, right? You heal to full health in both cases, be it Shadowy Disguise or Dark Cloak, you're going to be at full health by the time it ends, what's better afterwards? To have a guaranteed crit on the next hit or 8% less damage taken from all sources for 5 seconds? Now obviously, in both have their advantages. In my opinion, Shadowy Disguise is better if there are few targets on you (I'd say 3 tops), Dark Cloak is better if there are more than 3 people on you. I still think its a waste of a morph if you have over 60% crit chance.

Lacking as in if you're focusing on armor with crit stats you're probably losing out on either sustain or straight damage. Not talking about CP, though I would also argue mundus, but I do like the shadow from time to time as well.

40% (at 26k resist) damage mitigation is better than 24% (avg medium armor resist total) damage mitigation, healing passive or not. You can't even argue that.

And 8% from dark cloak for how many seconds after cloak wears off? You cloak just to expect to get hit? Not the best use of invisibility IMO, but I get it. Dark cloak is decent in a heavy armor build because of passives but in a medium armor build no thanks, that's just me.

And back to full health? No way. My vigor crits at almost 3k a tick. Non crit not even close. I'll get back closer to full HP in one cloak where it would take two without 100% crit ticks.

And dodge rolling means on the defensive? I have to disagree there as well. animation canceling using dodge roll goes a long way. Offense and defense same exact time, and I can do it over and over with my sustain. Since I use blade cloak I'm barely even worried about AoE damage either since we know how ZOS loves their undodgable attacks.

sustain>crit or do you think your crits will save you against a shield stacker?

What are you even on about? What I'm saying is that 26k resistances in medium armor don't equal to the same tankyness as 26k resistances in heavy armor. Why? Because with heavy armor you get about 10% more health, way more Healing received and some health regen. Hence, why the extra 8% mitigation will be much more noticeable in Medium armor than in Heavy armor. Simple mechanics of the game. So what you said about Dark Cloak being more effective on a Heavy Armor build, is just made up, in Heavy you'd actually have more trouble noticing the 8% damage mitigation. In Heavy, you need Shadowy Disguise.

I have 1 Crit Bonus on my gear. Boom. That's all I've invested into Crit and I've sacrificed a measly 129 recovery or 129 weapon damage. Wow. Big loss there indeed.

Now you know why your Vigor heals don't heal as much as mine? Because I have a 100% Crit Modifier. What does this mean? It means that if I had Shadowy Disguise (aka 100% crits) my Vigor would heal me for the tooltip value. So once again, crit is also very important for healing. Now lets assume 60% crit chance on my Vigor ticks. 3 out of 5 ticks will be crits. I'd heal for about 75-80% of the Vigor tooltip value, this would take care of about 1/2 or maybe even 2/3 of my health (assuming I was at 0% health when I applied Vigor and Dark Cloak). Add Rally on top of that and no incoming damage since we are in Cloak. So yeah, I'm basically at fully health in the space of 1 Cloak. You know what's even better? Even if I'm not at full health because of a healing debuff or something, I still have that 8% damage mitigation when I come out of Cloak for my counter burst. Shadowy Disguise ends the moment you come out of invisiblity, Dark Cloak offers protection for 5 seconds afterwards, thus removing the need for consecutive Cloaks.

And no I don't Cloak and just expect to get hit while I'm in Cloak, and either way, I don't see how that's relevant to our discussion. Are you suggesting that I'm terrible at using my class? If that's how all constructive discussions must end, then fine: I don't suck, I know how to use Cloak, I don't Cloak and expect to be pulled out the next second.

Dual Wield is good indeed, dancing around in Destro ults is great fun. Used to play like that, but was missing the buggyness of Crit Rush too much, so I had to go back to getting thrown into loading screens after gap closing. (Obvious irony). Now that you mention it, I might actually consider going DW again, getting that extra 10% crit from 2 Daggers...

Xvorg

KingJ wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

that thing with armour of the truth and tactican is really interesting.

could anyone do a test if its working or not? (dont have the set)

I wanted to try it and talked to @Xvorg about it at the time he told me it wasn't working.

It could be a very intresting set combine it with Bone pirate so you can have robust jewlery or a senche with recovery jewlery would hit very hard.

It should work by now, but instead of using senche, I'd go for Air (much better stam recovery, decent weapon dmg buff on dodgeroll and it lasts 6 secs instead of senche's 5)

And air is quite easy to farm

deepseamk20b14_ESO

This is why I was saying senche with armor of truth before the conversation got derailed because it has everything. Crit, weapon damage, stamina, and recovery.

It comes down to play style not what's overall better no matter the play style.

And I play 5 medium 2 heavy so I'm already getting a bit from heavy passives and I can invest CP to help with additional healing so it's not quite as far off from being more "tanky" as say going full medium and investing nothing into something like quick recovery or blessed. Though lately I don't put anything into blessed anymore, not for awhile.

Help me remember here because I can't login to the game. So assuming you are using cloak well, meaning you are cloaked for 2.9 seconds, leave 2 seconds of extra mitigation after cloak ends? I haven't used it in forever but the mitigation starts upon casting dark cloak right? I can't really remember. But if that's correct that's a complete waste compared to what you get with shadowy disguise IF you're in full medium armor setup. To each their own though as I don't feel squishy so I don't feel I need dark cloak, even being in 5/2.

And I still believe Heavy armor builds synergizes better with dark cloak. full heavy adds longer times to shadow abilities per heavy piece making dark cloak an obvious choice for someone who is probably already looking for more protection considering they are wearing full heavy. Like you said, they could invest more into crit and crit damage modifier not even needing shadowy disguise. This is of course depending on when the 8% mitigation starts because I honestly can't remember lol.

and how many points do you have into crit damage (precise) by the way?

And 129 recovery is a pretty big loss for a vampire wood elf (which I happen to be). That "129" isn't just 129 after doing all the math.

I'm honestly trying for a dagger at the moment but that damn thing won't drop. If I was able to hit 60%ish crit i'd probably invest a bit more into crit damage as well. Since my current setup is high penetration but low crit I don't bother investing to much into crit damage modifiers. This will probably change with this new setup though.