Magicka regeneration lower than displayed?

ZeroXFF

The story and my setup...
So I wanted to make a NB build that can stay invisible indefinitely. I think it's very helpful while farming mats, because of the run speed boost and not having to waste time on mounting while still reaching comparable movement speed. With 5p Seducer set (1 heavy, 1 medium, 2 light and staff), 5p Warlock set (jewelry and 2 light) and 1p Shadowrend, with 157 magicka regen on the necklace and 203 spell cost reduction on both rings I get 2580 passive magicka regeneration (without the warlock 5p bonus). With this setup Shadow Cloak (the NB invisibility spell) costs 3076 magicka, and lasts 2.9 seconds due to a Shadow tree passive. My character is also a High Elf and has 75 CP in Arcanist (14%). I set up a macro on my mouse that recasts Shadow Cloak every 2.8 seconds (and I verified that it is indeed 2.8 seconds).

Now to my actual problem...
With a magicka cost of 3076 and the spell being used every 2.8 seconds, the average magicka usage would be:
3076 / 2.8 * 2 = 2198 (rounded up)
My passive regen is 2580, so 382 higher than what should be required to keep recasting Shadow Cloak, so I would expect my magicka bar to always be full. But when I actually tested it, the regeneration was so much lower (or the spell cost so much higher) that despite the warlock 5p bonus I ran out of magicka in 5:24 minutes, and couldn't recast it any more.

I also have another warlock necklace that has a 203 magicka cost reduction enchant, so I swapped that one in. With this setup I have 2332 regen and 2910 spell cost, which means an expected cost per 2s of 2079, meaning my regen is 253 above what would be required to keep it up. However with this setup, I do lose magicka until the warlock 5p kicks in, and this time it's actually sufficient to make me invisible permanently (presumably because of the higher ratio of the restored magicka from 5p warlock compared to the spell cost). But still, with my current setup the magicka bar should never get low enough to trigger the warlock set in the first place.

Am I missing something about how regeneration is supposed to work? Or is it a bug with displayed regeneration or some of the multipliers not working properly (CP, High Elf passive)?

getemshauna

I am pretty sure Magicka Regeneration is capped somewhere. I use Lich in PvP, and sometimes my mag regen goes to 3500, but the actual value is around 2400. I don't know why it works like that, someone responsible should investigate this issue.

ZeroXFF

If the cap is at 2400, it should still work, because the spell costs less than 2400 per 2s, in both of the configurations I used.

GaunterODim

Yes there is a cap around that value, but its only there when youre out of combat, so in combat you should get the actual regen that is stated in the character screen.
If you want to make it work out of combat, then cost reduction might be better for that than having unnecessarily much regen.

ZeroXFF

GaunterODim wrote: »

Yes there is a cap around that value, but its only there when youre out of combat, so in combat you should get the actual regen that is stated in the character screen.
If you want to make it work out of combat, then cost reduction might be better for that than having unnecessarily much regen.

Using seducer set and 3x 203 spell cost reduction on jewelry, the only way I can reduce spell cost any more is by switching to a Breton or swapping out warlock set for worm's raiment, but even if I do both, they together give less spell cost reduction than Seducer, I lose the 9% regen from High Elf and the 5p warlock set that is effectively bumping up the regen beyond the cap.

And I also tested the in combat regen, and you are right. If I do the test the same way, but use a light attack after each cast to stay in combat with my target skeleton, my magicka indeed returns to full every time.

I guess the only sensible thing for me to do now is to replace the atronach mundus stone with something more interesting, since it's doing nothing in my use case.

Do you know why they put a cap on out of combat regen? Wouldn't it make more sense for the out of combat regen to be higher?

ZeroXFF

Just tested out without atronach mundus stone, and it was too much. Running out of magicka after just 3 minutes with the 1st setup (2054 regen).

Also, the numbers still don't add up. With warlock set I get 8686 magicka every minute, wich translates to 250 regen (actually 289, but it isn't always exactly 1 minute, so let's assume somewhat lower). 2054+250=2304. That's still significantly more than the 2198/2s used by the spell, and I still run out of magicka, even though the warlock set gets triggered twice before that happens. Seeing how the amount of time I can stay invisible was reduced by reducing the regen, It's safe to say that the cap is above 2k, if there is such a cap (as opposed to a multiplier), and I'm definitely under it. But my regen should still be high enough to be able to cast this spell indefinitely. There must be some other hidden nerf.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Pretty sure you can only cast an ablity every second, so it would be 3076 / 2 * 2, this would account for the more magic use.

Destruent

It would be helpful to check your out of combat magicka-regeneration. The Addon "Harven's extended Stats" should show this info for you.
Afaik this regen is completely different to our incombat regen, but i have no idea how to effect it or if it is even affected by anything etc.

ZeroXFF

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Pretty sure you can only cast an ablity every second, so it would be 3076 / 2 * 2, this would account for the more magic use.

What you say makes no sense. I'm casting it every 2.8 seconds, which is significantly more than the 1s cooldown. Even if the game calculated the values once a second, I'm still only pressing the button at the 2.8s mark, so there would be times when the spell isn't cast if this was the approach, and the magicka regen should have been enough for when it is. Furthermore, the regen is good enough while in combat.

ZeroXFF

Destruent wrote: »

It would be helpful to check your out of combat magicka-regeneration. The Addon "Harven's extended Stats" should show this info for you.
Afaik this regen is completely different to our incombat regen, but i have no idea how to effect it or if it is even affected by anything etc.

It says 2163, with both setups (I'm guessing this is the cap?). This is still higher than what the spell would cost per 2s in the 2nd scenario (2079), and yet it's not enough.

Destruent

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

It would be helpful to check your out of combat magicka-regeneration. The Addon "Harven's extended Stats" should show this info for you.
Afaik this regen is completely different to our incombat regen, but i have no idea how to effect it or if it is even affected by anything etc.

It says 2163, with both setups (I'm guessing this is the cap?). This is still higher than what the spell would cost per 2s in the 2nd scenario (2079), and yet it's not enough.

Do you have an addon to show you how many magicka you get every 2 seconds (the real ticks, not a number in character screen. iirc lui extended can show it)? Tbh you don't need to calculate it, you just need an addon to make that data visible

SodanTok

Just install combat metrics and check out the log for resource loss/gain? You would have to be in combat for that, so I guess if your problem is mainly outside of it that wont help.

For precise stuff like this you really need exact numbers

ZeroXFF

I can't find where the Lui Extended addon shows magicka regen, and Combat Metrics only works in combat, and I didn't have an issue in combat.

However it seems my character was bugged in the morning. I re-tested it now, and with the regen enchant, the magicka bar is going down very slowly over time, while with the spell cost reduction enchant it returns to 100% every few casts, without triggering warlock set 5p. This would be consistent with the regen displayed by Harven's Extended Stats addon.

Regen with both setups according to addon: 2163
Spell cost per 2s with regen enchant: 2198 (Slightly higher than the regen)
Spell cost per 2s with cost reduction enchant: 2079 (Somewhat lower than the regen)

Now the world makes sense again, but the inconsistency with the previous results still bothers me. Very weird behavior.

Hookgrin

AUI can show resource "incoming", "regeneration" and "degeneration" as they call it. Not enabled by default, settings are in the Messages section of the Combat module. You have to enable the Combat module if it is not enabled by default, you do that in Module Management.