Sorc kill counts

Biro123

Feanor wrote: »

Maybe just increase the value of assists for Deathmatches. I think that would be best without changing skills significantly.

That's all that's needed. Or simply award the kill to the team that did the most damage (note "team".. cos support builds shouldn't lose out either)

starkerealm

Hollery wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Slot an execute.

Mu excute just triggers their's

Execute their execute first, then execute them.

But, seriously, hard kill credit scoring does need to be reevaluated. The last hit system for credit is just annoying.

Ratzkifal

@ArchMikem

ArchMikem wrote: »

Theres no such thing as kill stealing when its a Team based multiplayer.

I believe OP is complaining about not getting the emperor slayer achievement because Sorc's always steal it from him. In that sense, of course kill stealing is a thing.
But to @Hollery I can only say "gid gud". I got my emperor slayer achievement on a nightblade, so it's definitely possible, even with sorcs spamming.

starkerealm

@Ratzkifal, it was BG leaderboards. But, I mean, I was getting a ton of kills on my Magblade in there during Midyear Madness, and competing with sorcs, so, I don't know.

NyassaV

Ratzkifal wrote: »

@ArchMikem

ArchMikem wrote: »

Theres no such thing as kill stealing when its a Team based multiplayer.

I believe OP is complaining about not getting the emperor slayer achievement because Sorc's always steal it from him. In that sense, of course kill stealing is a thing.
But to @Hollery I can only say "gid gud". I got my emperor slayer achievement on a nightblade, so it's definitely possible, even with sorcs spamming.

Oh I have emp slayer on my nightblade. But there are more achievements that require killing blows

seedubsrun

Yeah there's definitely nothing wrong with the execute the issue is certainly in how the kill is calculated. I like the idea of assists being weighted differently. Changing the way a skill works because of one part of one game mode is overkill for sure but it's obviously an unintended effect of the execute mechanic paired with BG mechanics. Maybe they could find a way to credit the player that activates the execute instead. That way the killing blow goes to the right player. That would fix issues in regular PvP too.

Thogard

seedubsrun wrote: »

Yeah there's definitely nothing wrong with the execute the issue is certainly in how the kill is calculated. I like the idea of assists being weighted differently. Changing the way a skill works because of one part of one game mode is overkill for sure but it's obviously an unintended effect of the execute mechanic paired with BG mechanics. Maybe they could find a way to credit the player that activates the execute instead. That way the killing blow goes to the right player. That would fix issues in regular PvP too.

Great idea!

Waffennacht

Medals should be based upon total damage done to opponent, reducing the value of kill stealing

PathwayM

Solution: l2p

Crom_CCCXVI

I know for a fact BG kills don't work right, not sure what how it works, but I've killed people under 15k sheilds with sheild breaker on, clearly the killing blow and not gotten the kill.

Biro123

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

I know for a fact BG kills don't work right, not sure what how it works, but I've killed people under 15k sheilds with sheild breaker on, clearly the killing blow and not gotten the kill.

That's where the anti-cheese scoring system comes in and awards the sorc 10 kills.

ak_pvp

The only place I found a real issue is in domination. Where offensive/defensive executions gave 100 points, but no such thing as an off/dev assist. They changed them to 10 and 5pts each, not sure if a bug or not. But in deathmatch, assists/kills get the same points.

NyassaV

I'm not even mentioning Implosion here soooooo... That makes it so much worse

Johnnny

The whole BG points system should be reworked. Healers being the highest winrates and yet having the lowest points in deathcmatches is just ***.

Stop complaining about the game not rewarding YOUR "solo player mentality" and start asking why the hell this game is not rewarding all the facets of teamwork.
What I'm trying to say is, the killing blow is far from the most important thing in a team game, even if it's deathmatch, why does this facet of the game gets rewarded and others don't?

Just make battleground wins count more than kills or "single player statuses".

CatchMeTrolling

Johnnny wrote: »

The whole BG points system should be reworked. Healers being the highest winrates and yet having the lowest points in deathcmatches is just ***.

Stop complaining about the game not rewarding YOUR "solo player mentality" and start asking why the hell this game is not rewarding all the facets of teamwork.
What I'm trying to say is, the killing blow is far from the most important thing in a team game, even if it's deathmatch, why does this facet of the game gets rewarded and others don't?

Just make battleground wins count more than kills or "single player statuses".

Not sure where you're going with the healer part but with the recent update they changed the value of points you get for healing, allowing support player's to benefit a bit more.

Albeit dishing damage AND healing is a much better choice than pure healer because that way you get multiple medals.

I go in as a flexer on my Templar, meaning if my team needs more healing I'll do more of that, if I'm able to just do damage I'll do that & throw off heals.

Thogard

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Johnnny wrote: »

The whole BG points system should be reworked. Healers being the highest winrates and yet having the lowest points in deathcmatches is just ***.

Stop complaining about the game not rewarding YOUR "solo player mentality" and start asking why the hell this game is not rewarding all the facets of teamwork.
What I'm trying to say is, the killing blow is far from the most important thing in a team game, even if it's deathmatch, why does this facet of the game gets rewarded and others don't?

Just make battleground wins count more than kills or "single player statuses".

Not sure where you're going with the healer part but with the recent update they changed the value of points you get for healing,

Made perfect sense to me. When premade groups fight each other, a magplar healer is practically a requirement to win.

But once all is said and done, the healer is still the lowest scorer on the team by a HUGE margin. And yes, that's even under the new medals.

What I'd like to see is points being awarded for your total heals + damage. I'd also like to see your points multiplied by 1.5 if you win and cut in half if you lose. That would be a step towards making the leaderboards mean something, too.

CatchMeTrolling

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Johnnny wrote: »

The whole BG points system should be reworked. Healers being the highest winrates and yet having the lowest points in deathcmatches is just ***.

Stop complaining about the game not rewarding YOUR "solo player mentality" and start asking why the hell this game is not rewarding all the facets of teamwork.
What I'm trying to say is, the killing blow is far from the most important thing in a team game, even if it's deathmatch, why does this facet of the game gets rewarded and others don't?

Just make battleground wins count more than kills or "single player statuses".

Not sure where you're going with the healer part but with the recent update they changed the value of points you get for healing,

Made perfect sense to me. When premade groups fight each other, a magplar healer is practically a requirement to win.

But once all is said and done, the healer is still the lowest scorer on the team by a HUGE margin. And yes, that's even under the new medals.

What I'd like to see is points being awarded for your total heals + damage. I'd also like to see your points multiplied by 1.5 if you win and cut in half if you lose. That would be a step towards making the leaderboards mean something, too.

I know what you mean but if you tweak the scoring for healing even more then people like me will benefit more than a pure healer. Playing a Warden or magplar would pretty much put you at the top every time, right now if I have 500k damage I also have 500k healing.

Would be ridiculous lol

Johnnny

That's where wins start kicking off being more important than individual scores.

Derra

So the issue is scoring in bgs => nerf sorc execute instead of changing the scoring system?

Ok.

Ragnaroek93

The scoring system is messed up. In Capture the Flag you also get no points for defending your own flag while the person who drops the flag gets all the points (incoming mobility builds nerf? ).

In my opinion, everyone from a team should get the same rewards (the winning team should get the most rewards). The only condition which effects the reward should be, if your team won or not, it's the most unbiased condition you can make. Every condition (like number of killing blows) just encourages people to enter ego mode and start doing stuff which interferes with the main goal: Winning the game.

Of course bad players would get sometimes carried and getting "undeserved" rewards but in the long term this is the best approach which you can do. Competitive games like League of Legends also don't reward someone who gained the most gold from a game, if you lose the game you lose ELO, no matter how good you played and this is how things should be in team games, period.

CatchMeTrolling

The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

Thogard

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

Premade teams SHOULD be higher in the leaderboards because they are better... that's like saying groups who do vet dungeons through the group finder should be just as highly ranked as the premade groups... that just doesn't make sense.

Separating the queues out would be a bad idea because we barely have enough players as-is.

But I would be OK with having two separate leaderboards - if you queue up in a premade, your points goto the premade leaderboard, and if you queue up solo your points go to the solo leaderboard.

CatchMeTrolling

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

Premade teams SHOULD be higher in the leaderboards because they are better... that's like saying groups who do vet dungeons through the group finder should be just as highly ranked as the premade groups... that just doesn't make sense.

Separating the queues out would be a bad idea because we barely have enough players as-is.

But I would be OK with having two separate leaderboards - if you queue up in a premade, your points goto the premade leaderboard, and if you queue up solo your points go to the solo leaderboard.

No you can't really compare pve & pvp for starters and just because you're in a group doesn't mean you're necessarily better than a team that's random.

The advantage they have usually is communication & not getting grouped with someone who doesn't really know what they're doing. It's little things as such that can make mediocre teams look better than they actually are. Plus they'll never do that because it'll turn more player's away rather than bringing more in.

Killset

Remove the timer on endless fury. There should be no preemptive executes in this game. Also change BGs so that whoever does the most damage on a target gets the kill credit.

Thogard

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

Premade teams SHOULD be higher in the leaderboards because they are better... that's like saying groups who do vet dungeons through the group finder should be just as highly ranked as the premade groups... that just doesn't make sense.

Separating the queues out would be a bad idea because we barely have enough players as-is.

But I would be OK with having two separate leaderboards - if you queue up in a premade, your points goto the premade leaderboard, and if you queue up solo your points go to the solo leaderboard.

No you can't really compare pve & pvp for starters and just because you're in a group doesn't mean you're necessarily better than a team that's random.

The advantage they have usually is communication & not getting grouped with someone who doesn't really know what they're doing. It's little things as such that can make mediocre teams look better than they actually are. Plus they'll never do that because it'll turn more player's away rather than bringing more in.

You've got to be trolling me. A team that's organized is definitely better than a team that isn't organized. It might not have better individual players, but it's a better team.

If you want to measure individual player ability, go duel people.

When two teams play each other, whichever one wins is better... the premade might be better BECAUSE it's more organized, but it's still better... it still won...

Separate leaderboards for solo queue and for premade would give you what you want. Just don't go down the scrub path of thinking "they beat me because of X, which I didn't use, therefore I'm still better".

CatchMeTrolling

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

Premade teams SHOULD be higher in the leaderboards because they are better... that's like saying groups who do vet dungeons through the group finder should be just as highly ranked as the premade groups... that just doesn't make sense.

Separating the queues out would be a bad idea because we barely have enough players as-is.

But I would be OK with having two separate leaderboards - if you queue up in a premade, your points goto the premade leaderboard, and if you queue up solo your points go to the solo leaderboard.

No you can't really compare pve & pvp for starters and just because you're in a group doesn't mean you're necessarily better than a team that's random.

The advantage they have usually is communication & not getting grouped with someone who doesn't really know what they're doing. It's little things as such that can make mediocre teams look better than they actually are. Plus they'll never do that because it'll turn more player's away rather than bringing more in.

You've got to be trolling me. A team that's organized is definitely better than a team that isn't organized. It might not have better individual players, but it's a better team.

If you want to measure individual player ability, go duel people.

When two teams play each other, whichever one wins is better... the premade might be better BECAUSE it's more organized, but it's still better... it still won...

Separate leaderboards for solo queue and for premade would give you what you want. Just don't go down the scrub path of thinking "they beat me because of X, which I didn't use, therefore I'm still better".

I've beaten plenty of premade team's, so no they aren't necessarily better. Hence the word NECESSARILY meaning they can be but not all the time.

I honestly don't get how you can't comprehend that.

Thogard

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

Premade teams SHOULD be higher in the leaderboards because they are better... that's like saying groups who do vet dungeons through the group finder should be just as highly ranked as the premade groups... that just doesn't make sense.

Separating the queues out would be a bad idea because we barely have enough players as-is.

But I would be OK with having two separate leaderboards - if you queue up in a premade, your points goto the premade leaderboard, and if you queue up solo your points go to the solo leaderboard.

No you can't really compare pve & pvp for starters and just because you're in a group doesn't mean you're necessarily better than a team that's random.

The advantage they have usually is communication & not getting grouped with someone who doesn't really know what they're doing. It's little things as such that can make mediocre teams look better than they actually are. Plus they'll never do that because it'll turn more player's away rather than bringing more in.

You've got to be trolling me. A team that's organized is definitely better than a team that isn't organized. It might not have better individual players, but it's a better team.

If you want to measure individual player ability, go duel people.

When two teams play each other, whichever one wins is better... the premade might be better BECAUSE it's more organized, but it's still better... it still won...

Separate leaderboards for solo queue and for premade would give you what you want. Just don't go down the scrub path of thinking "they beat me because of X, which I didn't use, therefore I'm still better".

I've beaten plenty of premade team's, so no they aren't necessarily better. Hence the word NECESSARILY meaning they can be but not all the time.

I honestly don't get how you can't comprehend that.

Because your whole point originally was that the leaderboards unfairly favor premade teams and that that should stop:

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

I'm not sure why you changed your argument's direction to say that solo queues can beat premades... that's certainly true but it isn't exactly lending any validity to your argument.

Please help me understand what you're trying to say. To me, it seems like you're saying that premades have an advantage in teamwork and coordination, and that gives them an unfair advantage and that the leaderboards therefore shouldn't count their wins. I then said that if they win because they're premade, it's still a win, and still means they're the better group. Then you said that PUGs can still sometimes beat premades.. but that had no relevance at all to what I was saying other than to strengthen my own argument that the premade SHOULD be ranked higher in the leaderboards than the PUG, assuming it's the same leaderboard. Given the context of your discussion, I assumed you meant something else, but apparently I was wrong?

Please Clarify your position.

CatchMeTrolling

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

Premade teams SHOULD be higher in the leaderboards because they are better... that's like saying groups who do vet dungeons through the group finder should be just as highly ranked as the premade groups... that just doesn't make sense.

Separating the queues out would be a bad idea because we barely have enough players as-is.

But I would be OK with having two separate leaderboards - if you queue up in a premade, your points goto the premade leaderboard, and if you queue up solo your points go to the solo leaderboard.

No you can't really compare pve & pvp for starters and just because you're in a group doesn't mean you're necessarily better than a team that's random.

The advantage they have usually is communication & not getting grouped with someone who doesn't really know what they're doing. It's little things as such that can make mediocre teams look better than they actually are. Plus they'll never do that because it'll turn more player's away rather than bringing more in.

You've got to be trolling me. A team that's organized is definitely better than a team that isn't organized. It might not have better individual players, but it's a better team.

If you want to measure individual player ability, go duel people.

When two teams play each other, whichever one wins is better... the premade might be better BECAUSE it's more organized, but it's still better... it still won...

Separate leaderboards for solo queue and for premade would give you what you want. Just don't go down the scrub path of thinking "they beat me because of X, which I didn't use, therefore I'm still better".

I've beaten plenty of premade team's, so no they aren't necessarily better. Hence the word NECESSARILY meaning they can be but not all the time.

I honestly don't get how you can't comprehend that.

Because your whole point originally was that the leaderboards unfairly favor premade teams and that that should stop:

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

I'm not sure why you changed your argument's direction to say that solo queues can beat premades... that's certainly true but it isn't exactly lending any validity to your argument.

Please help me understand what you're trying to say. To me, it seems like you're saying that premades have an advantage in teamwork and coordination, and that gives them an unfair advantage and that the leaderboards therefore shouldn't count their wins. I then said that if they win because they're premade, it's still a win, and still means they're the better group. Then you said that PUGs can still sometimes beat premades.. but that had no relevance at all to what I was saying other than to strengthen my own argument that the premade SHOULD be ranked higher in the leaderboards than the PUG, assuming it's the same leaderboard. Given the context of your discussion, I assumed you meant something else, but apparently I was wrong?

Please Clarify your position.

Lol are you serious. I never said the leaderboards currently favor premades or anything should stop...

I'll end this here because this is a clear example of reading to reply rather than to understand.

Thogard

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

Premade teams SHOULD be higher in the leaderboards because they are better... that's like saying groups who do vet dungeons through the group finder should be just as highly ranked as the premade groups... that just doesn't make sense.

Separating the queues out would be a bad idea because we barely have enough players as-is.

But I would be OK with having two separate leaderboards - if you queue up in a premade, your points goto the premade leaderboard, and if you queue up solo your points go to the solo leaderboard.

No you can't really compare pve & pvp for starters and just because you're in a group doesn't mean you're necessarily better than a team that's random.

The advantage they have usually is communication & not getting grouped with someone who doesn't really know what they're doing. It's little things as such that can make mediocre teams look better than they actually are. Plus they'll never do that because it'll turn more player's away rather than bringing more in.

You've got to be trolling me. A team that's organized is definitely better than a team that isn't organized. It might not have better individual players, but it's a better team.

If you want to measure individual player ability, go duel people.

When two teams play each other, whichever one wins is better... the premade might be better BECAUSE it's more organized, but it's still better... it still won...

Separate leaderboards for solo queue and for premade would give you what you want. Just don't go down the scrub path of thinking "they beat me because of X, which I didn't use, therefore I'm still better".

I've beaten plenty of premade team's, so no they aren't necessarily better. Hence the word NECESSARILY meaning they can be but not all the time.

I honestly don't get how you can't comprehend that.

Because your whole point originally was that the leaderboards unfairly favor premade teams and that that should stop:

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

I'm not sure why you changed your argument's direction to say that solo queues can beat premades... that's certainly true but it isn't exactly lending any validity to your argument.

Please help me understand what you're trying to say. To me, it seems like you're saying that premades have an advantage in teamwork and coordination, and that gives them an unfair advantage and that the leaderboards therefore shouldn't count their wins. I then said that if they win because they're premade, it's still a win, and still means they're the better group. Then you said that PUGs can still sometimes beat premades.. but that had no relevance at all to what I was saying other than to strengthen my own argument that the premade SHOULD be ranked higher in the leaderboards than the PUG, assuming it's the same leaderboard. Given the context of your discussion, I assumed you meant something else, but apparently I was wrong?

Please Clarify your position.

Lol are you serious. I never said the leaderboards currently favor premades or anything should stop...

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

Does this mean I caught you trolling?

I'll remember not to take you seriously in future posts...

Well played, mr troll, you got me

CatchMeTrolling

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

Premade teams SHOULD be higher in the leaderboards because they are better... that's like saying groups who do vet dungeons through the group finder should be just as highly ranked as the premade groups... that just doesn't make sense.

Separating the queues out would be a bad idea because we barely have enough players as-is.

But I would be OK with having two separate leaderboards - if you queue up in a premade, your points goto the premade leaderboard, and if you queue up solo your points go to the solo leaderboard.

No you can't really compare pve & pvp for starters and just because you're in a group doesn't mean you're necessarily better than a team that's random.

The advantage they have usually is communication & not getting grouped with someone who doesn't really know what they're doing. It's little things as such that can make mediocre teams look better than they actually are. Plus they'll never do that because it'll turn more player's away rather than bringing more in.

You've got to be trolling me. A team that's organized is definitely better than a team that isn't organized. It might not have better individual players, but it's a better team.

If you want to measure individual player ability, go duel people.

When two teams play each other, whichever one wins is better... the premade might be better BECAUSE it's more organized, but it's still better... it still won...

Separate leaderboards for solo queue and for premade would give you what you want. Just don't go down the scrub path of thinking "they beat me because of X, which I didn't use, therefore I'm still better".

I've beaten plenty of premade team's, so no they aren't necessarily better. Hence the word NECESSARILY meaning they can be but not all the time.

I honestly don't get how you can't comprehend that.

Because your whole point originally was that the leaderboards unfairly favor premade teams and that that should stop:

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

I'm not sure why you changed your argument's direction to say that solo queues can beat premades... that's certainly true but it isn't exactly lending any validity to your argument.

Please help me understand what you're trying to say. To me, it seems like you're saying that premades have an advantage in teamwork and coordination, and that gives them an unfair advantage and that the leaderboards therefore shouldn't count their wins. I then said that if they win because they're premade, it's still a win, and still means they're the better group. Then you said that PUGs can still sometimes beat premades.. but that had no relevance at all to what I was saying other than to strengthen my own argument that the premade SHOULD be ranked higher in the leaderboards than the PUG, assuming it's the same leaderboard. Given the context of your discussion, I assumed you meant something else, but apparently I was wrong?

Please Clarify your position.

Lol are you serious. I never said the leaderboards currently favor premades or anything should stop...

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

Does this mean I caught you trolling?

I'll remember not to take you seriously in future posts...

Well played, mr troll, you got me

Loool you're the troll here. Key word is would because the leaderboards has nothing to do with wins right now, instead it's all about individual performance. Can solo queue right now and still dominate the leaderboards, what I was saying is IF they decided to CHANGE the scoring system to wins it'll be in the favor of pre mades.

Albeit most solo anyways BUT doing that would surely make others start to group up more, that's if they care though.


Leaderboards are pretty pointless right now, so honestly I don't get the fuss about scoring in general. Still for those that care and play solo I know they wouldn't like that.