Best vma backbar trait HOTR?

Exodium

So I know the live HOTR patch threw a lot of theorycrafting done during the PTS out the window. Has anyone actually tested what they find gives them the best dps between vma lightning staffs as a backbar, particularly between infused, precised, sharpened, and nirnhoned?

I've seen some make the argument for infused because it buffs the enchantment - however I've also heard that the dps increase is so minor even with the infused buff that it's not worth it.

I've seen some make the argument for nirnhoned because of a flat increase damage, but does this transfer when you weapon swap to frontbar?

I've also seen some make the argument fore precise - I think someone said you keep the precise crit bonus from your backbar even if you swap to your frontbar, however, not sure how accurate this is.

And then there;s some who still make the case for sharpened, because, well, it's sharpened.

So yeah, you theorycrafters out there, now that you've had about a week to experiment with HOTR live what are you finding works best?

dpencil1

The traits don't transfer to the front bar except the inceased damage from light and heavy attacks that Infused gives, but there the only benefit is the 30% potency buff since there is no cooldown anyway.

If you're going sharp on the back bar, you're probably sharp on the front bar too, so you can have consistent penetration. Honestly, this is still often the best trait when you're not being given massive trials group penetration buffs. Precise is a good choice if you're planning to go Infused on your front bar. I think you'd probably get more out of Infused than Nirnhoned on the vMA staff since you're not on your back bar as much.

Now that the PTS is updated, I'm sure we'll get some good parse data.

Septimus_Magna

I dont know what is BiS but Gilliam said that infused now carries over if you cast Blockade from the backbar with a vMA staff.

Exodium

dpencil1 wrote: »

The traits don't transfer to the front bar except the inceased damage from light and heavy attacks that Infused gives, but there the only benefit is the 30% potency buff since there is no cooldown anyway.

If you're going sharp on the back bar, you're probably sharp on the front bar too, so you can have consistent penetration. Honestly, this is still often the best trait when you're not being given massive trials group penetration buffs. Precise is a good choice if you're planning to go Infused on your front bar. I think you'd probably get more out of Infused than Nirnhoned on the vMA staff since you're not on your back bar as much.

Now that the PTS is updated, I'm sure we'll get some good parse data.

So why precise backbar infused front bar?

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

I dont know what is BiS but Gilliam said that infused now carries over if you cast Blockade from the backbar with a vMA staff.

Yeah I've heard that too which makes the comparison interesting

dpencil1

Nirnhoned gives you about 187 more spell damage than Infused, while Infused gives you about 500 more damage per tick on your light and heavy attacks. So not accounting for the light and heavy attacks, the order on the Build Editor is Sharp > Precise > Nirnhoned > Infused, Since Infused could potentially giving you roughly an extra 500 dps, that might make it more desirable depending on your build. Charged is also not bad if you don't have much help from others to proc Concussed.

dpencil1

Infused has the potential to be the strongest front bar when you don't need the extra Pen from sharp. It's good with either a Shock enchant for more Concussed uptime or a Weapon Dmg enchant. Nirnhoned is a safer bet for close to 350 extra spell damage, but you can push Infused to 400-450 with the right rotation.

Tyrion87

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

I dont know what is BiS but Gilliam said that infused now carries over if you cast Blockade from the backbar with a vMA staff.

It indeed carries over which means that your light and heavy attacks on frontbar are much stronger (I tested it).

I also noticed that my best dps results are with infused vMA staff on backbar. On frontbar I use infused staff with shock dmg enchant.

Exodium

dpencil1 wrote: »

Infused has the potential to be the strongest front bar when you don't need the extra Pen from sharp. It's good with either a Shock enchant for more Concussed uptime or a Weapon Dmg enchant. Nirnhoned is a safer bet for close to 350 extra spell damage, but you can push Infused to 400-450 with the right rotation.

Does precise backbar have any benefits for a vma staff?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Exodium wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

Infused has the potential to be the strongest front bar when you don't need the extra Pen from sharp. It's good with either a Shock enchant for more Concussed uptime or a Weapon Dmg enchant. Nirnhoned is a safer bet for close to 350 extra spell damage, but you can push Infused to 400-450 with the right rotation.

Does precise backbar have any benefits for a vma staff?

You will have more crit when on your back bar casting DOTS, thats about it. I think infused has clearly emerged as the best Front bar Staff. I think it is debatable between Nirn and infused back bar, but I am seeing better numbers with Nirn.

Also, I want to do some testing on the issue of infused carrying over to the front bar. I think what might actually be happening is that your infused trait on your front bar can effect your back bar VMA weapon enchant. I need to do some more testing, but it sure would explain some of my results. It would also clearly point to Nirn as a back bar trait.

C4Bliss

I dont have an infused vma staff, but between precise, sharp and nirn I get best results with nirn

Faulgor

Just my luck that I get a sharpened lightning staff and bow now that the meta has changed ...

What are the arguments for bow traits, though?

Exodium

Faulgor wrote: »

Just my luck that I get a sharpened lightning staff and bow now that the meta has changed ...

What are the arguments for bow traits, though?

Ouch. I had a precise lightning one that was sitting in my bank for ages unused. When the pts came out I golded it knowing that precise would be strong...then they undid the change...

So it's back to sitting in my bank. Thanks ZOS.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Faulgor wrote: »

Just my luck that I get a sharpened lightning staff and bow now that the meta has changed ...

What are the arguments for bow traits, though?

You will be fine with sharpened unless you are in the top 1% of guilds in the game.

the_man_of_steal

Exodium wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

Infused has the potential to be the strongest front bar when you don't need the extra Pen from sharp. It's good with either a Shock enchant for more Concussed uptime or a Weapon Dmg enchant. Nirnhoned is a safer bet for close to 350 extra spell damage, but you can push Infused to 400-450 with the right rotation.

Does precise backbar have any benefits for a vma staff?

Precise back back gives the crit chance to direct damage DoTs such as crippling grasp... So you could have precise backbar as a Mag NB with crip grasp, swallow soul, and wall of elements then swap to your sharpened frontbar and the two DoTs will retain the precise modifier, but not your frontbar sharpened/nirn... Wall of Elements being a AOE will be affected by your frontbar sharpened or nirn... So it depends if this is a preference you'd like.

Also Gilliam did not confirm if the Infused VMA staff retains infused when you swap... He simply said he was hearing it does.

-Cheers

WhoSlappedThePie

I thought vma wasn't necessarily best in slot now? So julianos is? Can anyone confirm, or is it a case of multiple builds can perform similarly?

SoLooney

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

I thought vma wasn't necessarily best in slot now? So julianos is? Can anyone confirm, or is it a case of multiple builds can perform similarly?

the meta was gonna be mothers sorrow and julianos and a monster piece before they nerfed shadow and i believe mothers sorrow. Ive seen testing from people like nosferatu and others saying they get better results with 2 piece monster, specifically maw of the infernal, 4 piece minor slayer set aka infall, moondancer, master architect and then a 5 piece that fit for your mag class with backbar vma, it seems 50 50 on whether infused or nirn vma staff is a better option, need more testing

WhoSlappedThePie

^^ that is interesting. Weird that it's maw of the infernal. Thanks for the info - I can keep my moondancwr & necro/netchs

C4Bliss

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

Exodium wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

Infused has the potential to be the strongest front bar when you don't need the extra Pen from sharp. It's good with either a Shock enchant for more Concussed uptime or a Weapon Dmg enchant. Nirnhoned is a safer bet for close to 350 extra spell damage, but you can push Infused to 400-450 with the right rotation.

Does precise backbar have any benefits for a vma staff?

Precise back back gives the crit chance to direct damage DoTs such as crippling grasp... So you could have precise backbar as a Mag NB with crip grasp, swallow soul, and wall of elements then swap to your sharpened frontbar and the two DoTs will retain the precise modifier, but not your frontbar sharpened/nirn... Wall of Elements being a AOE will be affected by your frontbar sharpened or nirn... So it depends if this is a preference you'd like.

Also Gilliam did not confirm if the Infused VMA staff retains infused when you swap... He simply said he was hearing it does.

-Cheers

For me the precise trait is not carried over to the front bar... will test it more this weekend!

Haquor

Exodium wrote: »

Does precise backbar have any benefits for a vma staff?

If you have heals on your backbar they will benefit from precise and also nirn. Not infused or sharpened.

Exodium

Haquor wrote: »

Exodium wrote: »

Does precise backbar have any benefits for a vma staff?

If you have heals on your backbar they will benefit from precise and also nirn. Not infused or sharpened.

Actually yes! Yes I do. On my magicka templar which is where my vma precise staff is beinf used, I run extended ritual backbar. So I guess that it does have some use!

bebynnag

I dont have infused MD or IA staves

would an infused master inferno be any good as a front bar on a Sorc, DK, NB or warden

and are precice moondancer swords any good on a magplar?