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Burning Light proc chance not as advertised : /
Solariken
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The Burning Light tooltip states:
When you deal damage with an Aedric Spear ability, you have a 25% chance to deal an additional X Phyical Damage or Y Magic Damage, whichever is higher. This effect can occur once every 0.5 seconds.
The 25% stated chance seems off. I'm not sure if it's bugged or if ZOS is being deceptive (as they often are with tooltips). I ran several tests with Binding Javelin, Biting Jabs, and Blazing Spear and the results were very similar each time, as follows:
22% with 100 Binding Javelins,
15% with 100 hits of Biting Jabs,
Blazing Spear should have been the best indication of proper proc chance, but only 20%:
Edited by Solariken on August 24, 2017 2:51AM When you deal damage with an Aedric Spear ability, you have a 25% chance to deal an additional X Phyical Damage or Y Magic Damage, whichever is higher. This effect can occur once every 0.5 seconds.
The 25% stated chance seems off. I'm not sure if it's bugged or if ZOS is being deceptive (as they often are with tooltips). I ran several tests with Binding Javelin, Biting Jabs, and Blazing Spear and the results were very similar each time, as follows:
22% with 100 Binding Javelins,
15% with 100 hits of Biting Jabs,
Blazing Spear should have been the best indication of proper proc chance, but only 20%:
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Speed_Kills✭✭✭If I'm seeing correctly, I see 15%-22% proc chances in 3 tests.... if you test more you will get some that are >25%.... that's how RNG works. Sometimes you will get below 25% procs and sometimes more. In a very large test you will average 25% procs though. (100 hits isn't a very large sample size)Some say speed kills, I hope to be proof of that.
Main- Speed Kills Nord Stamina Sorcerer
+11 alts (every class, mag+stam)3 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Note: the Biting Jabs proc chance for Burning Light would be expected to be lower due to cooldown. Probably nothing to see there.4 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Speed_Kills wrote: »If I'm seeing correctly, I see 15%-22% proc chances in 3 tests.... if you test more you will get some that are >25%.... that's how RNG works. Sometimes you will get below 25% procs and sometimes more. In a very large test you will average 25% procs though. (100 hits isn't a very large sample size)
I did each test 3 times and could upload those screens if needed. They we're all very similar but I'm not about to waste time throwing a thousand Javelins. It doesn't take that much rigor to see that the chance is not as stated.2 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭Speed_Kills wrote: »If I'm seeing correctly, I see 15%-22% proc chances in 3 tests.... if you test more you will get some that are >25%.... that's how RNG works. Sometimes you will get below 25% procs and sometimes more. In a very large test you will average 25% procs though. (100 hits isn't a very large sample size)
100 sample size is plenty large enough and more than 3 times the minimum needed.
To the OP, this is very interesting data. I am wondering a few things.
Was Jabs used 25 times for the 100 hits? I'm guessing it was by your wording.
Was Blazing spear cast only 15 times and the rest of the hits all dot ticks?
Can you test it with the other morph of Blazing spear?0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Speed_Kills wrote: »If I'm seeing correctly, I see 15%-22% proc chances in 3 tests.... if you test more you will get some that are >25%.... that's how RNG works. Sometimes you will get below 25% procs and sometimes more. In a very large test you will average 25% procs though. (100 hits isn't a very large sample size)
100 sample size is plenty large enough and more than 3 times the minimum needed.
To the OP, this is very interesting data. I am wondering a few things.
Was Jabs used 25 times for the 100 hits? I'm guessing it was by your wording.
Was Blazing spear cast only 15 times and the rest of the hits all dot ticks?
Can you test it with the other morph of Blazing spear?
Correct, 25 casts of Jabs. This one is difficult to test because it's the only skill that interacts with the cooldown...
Blazing Spear is separated by Combat Metrics into the strike damage and the DOT damage, both of which can proc BL but there is a full second from strike to DOT so there is no cooldown interaction.
Honestly the Javelin data is what worries me most and was the reason for the testing - I use it religiously in my PvP burst rotation and have long felt there was something amiss with the Burning Light proc chance.
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Karm1cOne✭✭✭✭✭Out of curiosity, could you try a few hits without cp and compare results?Edited by Karm1cOne on August 24, 2017 2:31AM0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Out of curiosity, could you try a few hits without cp and compare results?
@Karm1cOne I could definitely do that but I would want to know the reason for your curiosity before I blow 3000g and 10 minutes replacing all my CP :P0 -
Karm1cOne✭✭✭✭✭Reduction of variables. It looks, from your data, that the burning light is proccing around 15-22%. The 60% you point to is the damage %, not proc %.Edited by Karm1cOne on August 24, 2017 2:37AM0
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Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Reduction of variables. It looks, from your data, that the burning light is proccing around 15-22%. The 60% you point to is the damage %, not proc %.
Oops, thanks I was in a hurry when posting, corrected.0 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭well upon further consideration...
10-15% proc chance on the AOE's and 22% on the single target.
I remember when they nerfed the proc chance for Skoria on aoe dots, I wonder if they did that to every proc for every aoe.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The jabs one makes sense.
It should only be able to proc twice at most within 1 jabs.
You did a 100 hits but only 50 of them had a chance to proc it.
25% of 50 is 12.5~ so thats about right.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...4 -
Burning light has a cooldown. Jabs tick faster than every 0.5s and the 1st tick of blazing spear ticks less than 0.5s after the initial impact, so burning light will proc on less than 25% of the hits done by those skills.Edited by Ultimate_Overlord on August 24, 2017 9:23AM0 -
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
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Honestly the Javelin data is what worries me most and was the reason for the testing - I use it religiously in my PvP burst rotation and have long felt there was something amiss with the Burning Light proc chance.
I run Stamplar in PVP. Front my point of view, we shouldn't worry about a proc and it's damage. They are built to be unreliable sources of damage. When I run my burst in PVP, I can still kill my opponents--and plan to kill them without the proc. There is no way for us to control it. If it happens on the off chance we hit someone with Javelin it's a happy little accident and it usually hurts a lot. Especially something like Power of The Light in our tool kit, we need to be very careful how we ask for buffs because if we up BL proc chance we can easily become overpowered.
Think of the proc in this way, if you are fighting a potato in PvP chances are you will rarely see it proc since your target is dead quick. Long term fights, this is where BL proc becomes our friend, it's definitely much more important to see it show up in heated fights then it is against a little zergling.Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on August 24, 2017 11:44AM0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »
Honestly the Javelin data is what worries me most and was the reason for the testing - I use it religiously in my PvP burst rotation and have long felt there was something amiss with the Burning Light proc chance.
I run Stamplar in PVP. Front my point of view, we shouldn't worry about a proc and it's damage. They are built to be unreliable sources of damage. When I run my burst in PVP, I can still kill my opponents--and plan to kill them without the proc. There is no way for us to control it. If it happens on the off chance we hit someone with Javelin it's a happy little accident and it usually hurts a lot. Especially something like Power of The Light in our tool kit, we need to be very careful how we ask for buffs because if we up BL proc chance we can easily become overpowered.
Think of the proc in this way, if you are fighting a potato in PvP chances are you will rarely see it proc since your target is dead quick. Long term fights, this is where BL proc becomes our friend, it's definitely much more important to see it show up in heated fights then it is against a little zergling.
The proc is there to help tanks gain a little burst, since you need high resistance to take full advantage of the time spent acquiring those procs.
I'll take the passive DMG increase, especially since it's generally unavoidable, further promoting Templars as having consistent damage in PvP.
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭I see what you mean about tanks.
What type of DMG increase do you mean? We have 6% on Balanced Warrior 2/2-- though when I looked over the tooltip for this on PS4 I was under the impression it was for stamina users only.0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just did a quick test, and proccchance looks good for spearshards (~25.3%)
Noobplar0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »I see what you mean about tanks.
What type of DMG increase do you mean? We have 6% on Balanced Warrior 2/2-- though when I looked over the tooltip for this on PS4 I was under the impression it was for stamina users only.
I mean the passive chance to do extra DMG through aeadric spear abilities (burning light). For magplars, stacking minor sorcery+major sorcery is about as good as we are going to get to increase DMG stats (that's why stamplar got the 6% balanced warrior stat; they needed the offensive boost since they don't have another source.)Edited by Minno on August 24, 2017 2:00PMMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »
Honestly the Javelin data is what worries me most and was the reason for the testing - I use it religiously in my PvP burst rotation and have long felt there was something amiss with the Burning Light proc chance.
I run Stamplar in PVP. Front my point of view, we shouldn't worry about a proc and it's damage. They are built to be unreliable sources of damage. When I run my burst in PVP, I can still kill my opponents--and plan to kill them without the proc. There is no way for us to control it. If it happens on the off chance we hit someone with Javelin it's a happy little accident and it usually hurts a lot. Especially something like Power of The Light in our tool kit, we need to be very careful how we ask for buffs because if we up BL proc chance we can easily become overpowered.
Think of the proc in this way, if you are fighting a potato in PvP chances are you will rarely see it proc since your target is dead quick. Long term fights, this is where BL proc becomes our friend, it's definitely much more important to see it show up in heated fights then it is against a little zergling.
The proc is there to help tanks gain a little burst, since you need high resistance to take full advantage of the time spent acquiring those procs.
I'll take the passive DMG increase, especially since it's generally unavoidable, further promoting Templars as having consistent damage in PvP.
It's hard to argue that it's for tanks since it scales directly with damage stats. The BL damage on a full tank spec is going to be very negligible. BL is a DPS passive.1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »
Honestly the Javelin data is what worries me most and was the reason for the testing - I use it religiously in my PvP burst rotation and have long felt there was something amiss with the Burning Light proc chance.
I run Stamplar in PVP. Front my point of view, we shouldn't worry about a proc and it's damage. They are built to be unreliable sources of damage. When I run my burst in PVP, I can still kill my opponents--and plan to kill them without the proc. There is no way for us to control it. If it happens on the off chance we hit someone with Javelin it's a happy little accident and it usually hurts a lot. Especially something like Power of The Light in our tool kit, we need to be very careful how we ask for buffs because if we up BL proc chance we can easily become overpowered.
Think of the proc in this way, if you are fighting a potato in PvP chances are you will rarely see it proc since your target is dead quick. Long term fights, this is where BL proc becomes our friend, it's definitely much more important to see it show up in heated fights then it is against a little zergling.
The proc is there to help tanks gain a little burst, since you need high resistance to take full advantage of the time spent acquiring those procs.
I'll take the passive DMG increase, especially since it's generally unavoidable, further promoting Templars as having consistent damage in PvP.
It's hard to argue that it's for tanks since it scales directly with damage stats. The BL damage on a full tank spec is going to be very negligible. BL is a DPS passive.
Well, the time it takes to proc is for tankier builds (since you'll draw out the battle timeframe.) Otherwise you can't rely on that DMG; it's just there when it happens. Templars in general are better if played tankier than the standard DPS classes.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭That's why I got excited over the prospect of finally getting a Troll King shoulder last weekend. Been running it in Cyrodiil with 5/1/1 set up and love how my mainly Medium Armor focused build can still stay in the fight when she gets hit by a bomb.
Go under 50% health, poop out a ritual, get HoT for 320, Troll King starts pop'n like;
Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on August 24, 2017 5:01PM1 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »
Honestly the Javelin data is what worries me most and was the reason for the testing - I use it religiously in my PvP burst rotation and have long felt there was something amiss with the Burning Light proc chance.
I run Stamplar in PVP. Front my point of view, we shouldn't worry about a proc and it's damage. They are built to be unreliable sources of damage. When I run my burst in PVP, I can still kill my opponents--and plan to kill them without the proc. There is no way for us to control it. If it happens on the off chance we hit someone with Javelin it's a happy little accident and it usually hurts a lot. Especially something like Power of The Light in our tool kit, we need to be very careful how we ask for buffs because if we up BL proc chance we can easily become overpowered.
Think of the proc in this way, if you are fighting a potato in PvP chances are you will rarely see it proc since your target is dead quick. Long term fights, this is where BL proc becomes our friend, it's definitely much more important to see it show up in heated fights then it is against a little zergling.
The proc is there to help tanks gain a little burst, since you need high resistance to take full advantage of the time spent acquiring those procs.
I'll take the passive DMG increase, especially since it's generally unavoidable, further promoting Templars as having consistent damage in PvP.
It's hard to argue that it's for tanks since it scales directly with damage stats. The BL damage on a full tank spec is going to be very negligible. BL is a DPS passive.
Well, the time it takes to proc is for tankier builds (since you'll draw out the battle timeframe.) Otherwise you can't rely on that DMG; it's just there when it happens. Templars in general are better if played tankier than the standard DPS classes.
Burning Light is ~7% of templars PvE-DPS...i don't think that's nothing to rely on...
This passive won't do anything when playing tank/tankier...it also doesn't help when healing...Noobplar1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »
Honestly the Javelin data is what worries me most and was the reason for the testing - I use it religiously in my PvP burst rotation and have long felt there was something amiss with the Burning Light proc chance.
I run Stamplar in PVP. Front my point of view, we shouldn't worry about a proc and it's damage. They are built to be unreliable sources of damage. When I run my burst in PVP, I can still kill my opponents--and plan to kill them without the proc. There is no way for us to control it. If it happens on the off chance we hit someone with Javelin it's a happy little accident and it usually hurts a lot. Especially something like Power of The Light in our tool kit, we need to be very careful how we ask for buffs because if we up BL proc chance we can easily become overpowered.
Think of the proc in this way, if you are fighting a potato in PvP chances are you will rarely see it proc since your target is dead quick. Long term fights, this is where BL proc becomes our friend, it's definitely much more important to see it show up in heated fights then it is against a little zergling.
The proc is there to help tanks gain a little burst, since you need high resistance to take full advantage of the time spent acquiring those procs.
I'll take the passive DMG increase, especially since it's generally unavoidable, further promoting Templars as having consistent damage in PvP.
It's hard to argue that it's for tanks since it scales directly with damage stats. The BL damage on a full tank spec is going to be very negligible. BL is a DPS passive.
Well, the time it takes to proc is for tankier builds (since you'll draw out the battle timeframe.) Otherwise you can't rely on that DMG; it's just there when it happens. Templars in general are better if played tankier than the standard DPS classes.
Burning Light is ~7% of templars PvE-DPS...i don't think that's nothing to rely on...
This passive won't do anything when playing tank/tankier...it also doesn't help when healing...
My comment was based on PvP. I agree of it's importance in pve for consistent DPS.
But if one ran the same pve setup in PvP, you'll notice very quickly how important it is to pick up defensive/tankier stats in order to maintain consistent procs of burning light. That's all I'm saying
. Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
GrimJaw✭✭✭i wish i had timestamps on in CLS....took about 1.5 seconds from knockback from jav to death.
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Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »
Honestly the Javelin data is what worries me most and was the reason for the testing - I use it religiously in my PvP burst rotation and have long felt there was something amiss with the Burning Light proc chance.
I run Stamplar in PVP. Front my point of view, we shouldn't worry about a proc and it's damage. They are built to be unreliable sources of damage. When I run my burst in PVP, I can still kill my opponents--and plan to kill them without the proc. There is no way for us to control it. If it happens on the off chance we hit someone with Javelin it's a happy little accident and it usually hurts a lot. Especially something like Power of The Light in our tool kit, we need to be very careful how we ask for buffs because if we up BL proc chance we can easily become overpowered.
Think of the proc in this way, if you are fighting a potato in PvP chances are you will rarely see it proc since your target is dead quick. Long term fights, this is where BL proc becomes our friend, it's definitely much more important to see it show up in heated fights then it is against a little zergling.
The proc is there to help tanks gain a little burst, since you need high resistance to take full advantage of the time spent acquiring those procs.
I'll take the passive DMG increase, especially since it's generally unavoidable, further promoting Templars as having consistent damage in PvP.
It's hard to argue that it's for tanks since it scales directly with damage stats. The BL damage on a full tank spec is going to be very negligible. BL is a DPS passive.
Well, the time it takes to proc is for tankier builds (since you'll draw out the battle timeframe.) Otherwise you can't rely on that DMG; it's just there when it happens. Templars in general are better if played tankier than the standard DPS classes.
Burning Light is ~7% of templars PvE-DPS...i don't think that's nothing to rely on...
This passive won't do anything when playing tank/tankier...it also doesn't help when healing...
My comment was based on PvP. I agree of it's importance in pve for consistent DPS.
But if one ran the same pve setup in PvP, you'll notice very quickly how important it is to pick up defensive/tankier stats in order to maintain consistent procs of burning light. That's all I'm saying.
Doesn't change the fact it's a dmg-passive and not made for healers/tanks
@GrimJaw addons like "improved death recap" and "combat metrics" should help you.Edited by Destruent on August 26, 2017 9:12AMNoobplar0
