Optimal BG Domination Strategy

Thogard

Many of the BG players tend to get frustrated when they are the best group but they keep getting out maneuvered by pesky nightbladed who are back capping flags immediately after rezzing. I've seen many people complain about this and so I wanted to share the counter to this strategy, primarily because I hate solo nivhtblades that queue up in BGs and play without any effort towards teamwork, but also because this strategy promotes 4v4 fights.

It's a bit counter intuitive, and you'll need a basic understanding of the map layout. I strongly recommend using Miat's addon because it will help you identify the enemy spawn points, which is absolutely crucial for this strat. i also want to emphasize that this only works if you're the strongest four man team in the BG. If you can't win a 4v4, this strat won't work.

Think about the last time you played a Domination game. What happened when you died? When you rezzed? Where did you run imedately after jumping down? I bet I know. I bet you looked at the two flags on either side of your base, looked to see which one was undefended, and then ran to cap it. That's what everybody does, even what a premade member will do before joining his group.

And it's annoying because by killing someone, all you're really doing is teleporting them to another side of the map and letting them get an easy cap.

So assuming you're a good group, and organized (need voice comms for this), here's what you do:
1. Figure out on the map where the first place team's spawn point is
2. Figure out which two flags are the ones to either side of their base. We'll call the flag that they share with the third team's base the "beta" flag, and the flag they share with your base the "alpha" flag. The distinction between the two is important.
3. Go to middle flag and start killing some scrubs
4. Once you've killed 2+ of the crappy backcapping team, immediately run to the beta flag with your four man. If the third team is there in small numbers, kill them, if it's all four, goto Alpha. Let's assume you goto beta.
5. Once you cap that flag, immediately sweep across to alpha. Do not run through the middle!! instead, run right next to the Cheese team's spawn. One of two things will happen: either the backcapping team will be respawned and dropping down, in which case you spawn kill those cheesey scrubs, or they'll be trying to 1 or 2 man cap the alpha flag, in which case you kill them on the flag. Worst case scenario, they run away without getting either of their "home" flags

But let's stop for a second and think about that third team. What are they going to do? They'll grab the flag they share with you, OR they'll grab middle. Those are the only two options unless they want a 4v4 against you. But here's the beauty of it- by grabbing those flags, they'll be killing any of the Cheese scrubs that somehow escape your net. That also puts them adjacent to the beta flag.

So now you've wiped the Cheese team again and you have capped Alpha. Where do you go? Do NOT try to grab the flag you share with the third team, that will draw both you and the third team away from the flags sureounding the Cheese team's spawn.

6. Look at the map. Is the third team going to try to cap beta, or are they going for mid? Usually they go mid, but either way you want to grab whichever flag they don't go for. This ensures that the Cheese team is still trapped without a flag to grab
7. By this point, Cheese will have respawned again and run into either you or the third team. Kill them again.

They will have now spent about a minute with 0 flags. This will kill any chance they have of winning.

8. Now you need to worry about the third team, so goto middle and wipe them, and then do the exact same strategy to them.

TL:DR
It's impossible in domination to reliably hold more than two flags at a time, and often times even two flags is too many. But by using a "net" approach you can prevent a team from having flags. Run back and forth between the two flags on either side of first place's spawn, and sacrifice the other flags to the third place team to goad them into helping you keep a spawncamp going on the first place team. Once they're behind the third place team, switch it up and do the same thing to the third team. This will usually result in you and team B having two flags each for the first half of the fight, and you and team C having two flags each for the second half of the fight, resulting in (ideally) a 500 - 250 - 250 win for you.

Betsararie

run run run. And whatever you do, don' fight.

Thogard

Blanco wrote: »

run run run. And whatever you do, don' fight.

yeah thats the kind of thinking that doesn't actually work against the strategy i posted.

Mojomonkeyman

So, basically, your tip is: gather a superior premade, run a around in a blob and spawncamp inferior teams to death?

If I would premade in the first place, I'd never lose a domination for sure. And this running around in a 4 man train in BGs is just pathetic and not exactly a winning strategy, if enemy teams are smart enough not to suicide into you.

Not a fan. Only ESO players come up with such fine strategies and think they have reinvented the Art of War.

Thogard

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

So, basically, your tip is: gather a superior premade, run a around in a blob and spawncamp inferior teams to death?

If I would premade in the first place, I'd never lose a domination for sure. And this running around in a 4 man train in BGs is just pathetic and not exactly a winning strategy, if enemy teams are smart enough not to suicide into you.

Not a fan. Only ESO players come up with such fine strategies and think they have reinvented the Art of War.

Yup That's a great TLDR.

I'm not sure why you're reading the BG message boards if you don't play in BGs. In any case, if you read the threads about domination game mode you'll see a lot of people saying that domination promotes avoiding fights and that in order to win all you have to do is run around solo capping flags rather than staying together as a 4man. This post is showing a counter to that strategy.

Feanor

Oh @Mojomonkeyman does play BGs. Witnessed his Warden in there and I must say that I'd rather want to avoid it

I think the topic outlines one of the design flaws of BGs and the 4v4v4 concept. Actually one of the best winning strategy in every game mode not being Deathmatch or Chaos Ball is to get the other two teams to engage while your team plays the objective. This is not that uncommon if you don't play vs. premades as a lot of random players just have a tunnel vision and treat every game as if it were a Deathmatch.

Example from yesterday: Red is holding the chaos ball for ages but green attacks my team without ever relenting. Outside of collaboration- which is possible but unlikely- this shows just how few players actually care for the objectives. They just want fights and kills.

Thus the best way to win is usually to avoid fighting at all. Design failure.

Thogard

Feanor wrote: »

Oh @Mojomonkeyman does play BGs. Witnessed his Warden in there and I must say that I'd rather want to avoid it

I think the topic outlines one of the design flaws of BGs and the 4v4v4 concept. Actually one of the best winning strategy in every game mode not being Deathmatch or Chaos Ball is to get the other two teams to engage while your team plays the objective. This is not that uncommon if you don't play vs. premades as a lot of random players just have a tunnel vision and treat every game as if it were a Deathmatch.

Example from yesterday: Red is holding the chaos ball for ages but green attacks my team without ever relenting. Outside of collaboration- which is possible but unlikely- this shows

Thus the best way to win is usually to avoid fighting at all. Design failure.

No. That is not the best way to win. That belief is why I made this post. Avoiding fights is a sub par strategy, and this post specifically addresses how to beat teams that do that in domination.

That's the whole reason I wrote this... and it works every time.

I really need to stop trying to help people. It seems so pointless sometimes. If you want to keep playing domination and running around without fighting and still lose to a pug nightblade group that back caps flags, be my guest.

Feanor

@Thogard

Your strategy works under the premise that you can win any 4v4 with your group. How often is that the case in your average PuG? I'll wager that you'd win the Domination match regardless if you're so dominant most times.

Spawn camping is a valid strategy as you described. ROFLstomping scrubs is not that much fun though. But to each his own I guess.

Edit: Also my comment you bolded didn't only include Domination. For CTR most teams try to avoid fights until they can kill the relic bearer of their home relic and have another relic close to their base.

Toc de Malsvi

Avoiding fighting works okay as long as the other teams reasonably ignore you. If have seen many a game go south because my team got a big lead before being focused by both teams until one of the others won.

Toc de Malsvi

The challenge of three sides competition is that one strategy often is not enough to carry you. Generally you will have to change and adapt your strategy as the BG unfolds. Getting an early lead is a sure way to lose versus competitent competition as often both teams will focus you for the rest of the fight.

Thogard

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Avoiding fighting works okay as long as the other teams reasonably ignore you. If have seen many a game go south because my team got a big lead before being focused by both teams until one of the others won.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

The challenge of three sides competition is that one strategy often is not enough to carry you. Generally you will have to change and adapt your strategy as the BG unfolds. Getting an early lead is a sure way to lose versus competitent competition as often both teams will focus you for the rest of the fight.

Yes, these are valid points. This strategy is how you counter that.

Cinbri

Spread on two grops and only calture flag. That the best strategy that will allow to beat any premade of OPs strategy. Blob of 4man maybe will stomp everyone but than it will never be able to capture more than 1 flag.

Lexxypwns

Cinbri wrote: »

Spread on two grops and only calture flag. That the best strategy that will allow to beat any premade of OPs strategy. Blob of 4man maybe will stomp everyone but than it will never be able to capture more than 1 flag.

You can easily control 2 flags with a strong 4 man and try to manipulate the other two teams into fighting each other by choosing the right flags.

However, if they decide to both engage you rather than falling into the trap of picking each other off so you can get wipes and hold flags then you WILL most likely lose, unless your team is far far superior.

Cinbri

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Spread on two grops and only calture flag. That the best strategy that will allow to beat any premade of OPs strategy. Blob of 4man maybe will stomp everyone but than it will never be able to capture more than 1 flag.

You can easily control 2 flags with a strong 4 man and try to manipulate the other two teams into fighting each other by choosing the right flags.

However, if they decide to both engage you rather than falling into the trap of picking each other off so you can get wipes and hold flags then you WILL most likely lose, unless your team is far far superior.

If enemies not brainless, the first flag will start turning couple seconds already after blob will move toward second one.

Waffennacht

Allow your PUG buds to run together and distract everyone, while you cap the flags nobodies near.

In one night went from not ranked to top 100

Thogard

Cinbri wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Spread on two grops and only calture flag. That the best strategy that will allow to beat any premade of OPs strategy. Blob of 4man maybe will stomp everyone but than it will never be able to capture more than 1 flag.

You can easily control 2 flags with a strong 4 man and try to manipulate the other two teams into fighting each other by choosing the right flags.

However, if they decide to both engage you rather than falling into the trap of picking each other off so you can get wipes and hold flags then you WILL most likely lose, unless your team is far far superior.

If enemies not brainless, the first flag will start turning couple seconds already after blob will move toward second one.

That's why I wrote this post. That is not true with this strategy.

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

Allow your PUG buds to run together and distract everyone, while you cap the flags nobodies near.

In one night went from not ranked to top 100

That is great for PUGs but will not work against organized groups.

FloppyTouch

90% of the time we run around taking the outside flags and let's the other teams fight it out for that middle flag, retreating maneuvers wins dom game 100% of the time lol

Thogard

i give up.

Beardimus

The sooner they spilt premade and solo queues the better

FloppyTouch

Beardimus wrote: »

The sooner they spilt premade and solo queues the better

Some much this! Nothing I hate more then getting stomped into the ground by a pre made group when I'm soloed que.

I also don't like being in my pre made group and having no competition.

Zer0oo

Best Strategy is to make a premade grp and fight against pugs: almost 100% success rate - Best match-making-system ever



Also i think the best Strategy is to use your brain: Split in groups if there are no enemies at flags and merge if you need more ppl to take a defended flag or want to turn a flag fast. But never fight longer than ~10 sec just leave and go to another flag.

Betsararie

I think I've made it clear that I don't like this game mode, but if I were being serious I would really say the only optimal time to fight during this game mode is when a flag you are already actively going for is threatened. And it is better to go for unoccupied flags first.

Sometimes I'll just try and PvP in this game type especially if it's clear we're going to lose anyway, but if I'm trying to win absolutely avoiding fighting the most possible is always the best strategy to win.

Waffennacht

Seeing as I too am on the leaderboards... Best strategy really is just play, the ranking system really doesn't care about win or loss, but the scores gained during the match.

Seeing as sometimes I get paired up with a player higher on the leaderboards, why would I want his score increased just for a "win" winning does provide any real reward, while sabotage and selfish play is promoted.

Pre mades is fun and all, but you really wanna shoot up the ranks, go solo and go for yourself

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

Seeing as I too am on the leaderboards... Best strategy really is just play, the ranking system really doesn't care about win or loss, but the scores gained during the match.

Seeing as sometimes I get paired up with a player higher on the leaderboards, why would I want his score increased just for a "win" winning does provide any real reward, while sabotage and selfish play is promoted.

Pre mades is fun and all, but you really wanna shoot up the ranks, go solo and go for yourself

True.. but who really cares about the leaderboards other than being on them for the gold item? I'd rather hit leaderboards with 3 characters and get 9 items than be #1 with just one character and get three items. Especially with the recent price increase of tempering alloy...

I play BGs because I want to lead the best four man group. I am not currently leading the best four man group. My objective is to improve my group's teamwork so that if we try our hardest we won't lose. In other words, for me it's more about my ego than my ranking

I'm an old school DAoC 8v8 guy and I'm just trying to relive my glory days

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Thogard wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

run run run. And whatever you do, don' fight.

yeah thats the kind of thinking that doesn't actually work against the strategy i posted.

My stamblade gets 700-900k damage normally when it's a domination I my normal kill armor off and put on 5 cowards Armor 3 jewelry and 2 well fitted and Blood Spawn well fitted extra ult is great for this play style and Eternal Hunt all well fitted. I roll and run never fighting. I see teams doing with you do and I just wait 10 seconds behind them and back cap.

What you said seems working but stealth up drop down and take flags well the premade camps get kills that awesome in this made kills are not the goal flags are.

exeeter702

You cant turn water (eso bgs) into wine (deep complex competitive instanced pvp).

No one cares enough, so for a small 4 man group to try as mightily as possible to be the best of the best is such a joke. Most solid players realized this VERY early on.

Bgs are a party game, treat them as such and stop putting toi much stock into it. Because zos has no interest in returning the favor.

This is like Friday Night Lights, except its kick ball and you are Billy Bob Thorton.