Magicka Nightblade pvp build, discussing Amberplasm vs Seducer, weapon traits, mundus

Tawrich

Hello ppl! As the title says, here is my endeavor at creating a build video for magicka nightblade for HotR patch!

Its a simple but well rounded build with the potential to reach 52K max mag. I included time stamps if you want to see buffed up stats first hand!

I will also discuss amberplasm vs seducer, their different applications cuz Ive seen many ppl say how good or bad seducer is compared to amber, I give my take on both in this,

Also discussing necropotence set, many think its horrible after the nerf but I think this build utilizes it in a great way!

And talking a little bit about weapon traits and mundus stones and how they can go together! If you are a pro some stuff might seem pretty obvious but keep in mind that after years of sharpened being BiS, now many want to know whats best to run, so I talk a bit about that too, go in a bit more details in the description since I didn't want the vid to be too long.

I sincerely hope that you will find it useful also plz give me feedback!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w98qNImC6xs&

Hurika

What is the addon you're using that shows the shadow image?

arkansas_ESO

Hurika wrote: »

What is the addon you're using that shows the shadow image?

@Hurika Miat's PVP Tools

KingJ

I would believe the best person to ask would be @CavalryPK or MR magblade himself @NightbladeMechanics

Tawrich

@Hurika Its a recent addition to Miat's pvp alerts addon. I don't recommend using other features as most are distracting but the shade helps quite alot.

Tawrich

@KingJ Its a Miat's addon.

On another note, @CavalryPK and @NightbladeMechanics are both great Magicka Nightblades and I recommend them. @CavalryPK is a good friend of mine and @NightbladeMechanics helped me alot as well in theorycrafting.

IlCanis_LupuslI

I personally prefer shackle breaker over seducer, otherwise seems nice.

Tawrich

@Mangeli200194 I experimented with Shacklebreaker in UESP build editor for an entire week to find some use for it. It will end up giving u less than 1k more max mag than seducer, and 2K more max stam. It will give u a 129 stam regen that wont change anything at all in your performance, its not enough to force you to invest in mooncalf CP for a good gain and without that, if you use leeching strikes you will not feel its stam regen at all, And its definitely not enough to allow you to go siphoning attacks instead of leeching strikes.

It will give u 1 more line of damage and 1 line of recovery. Seducer gives u 2 line of recovery and reduce cost, allowing u to invest in damage glyphs for jewelry (highest priority glyphs because of their high value). With Shackle , u will be forced to at least put 1 mag regen glyph to reach the recovery seducer gives you WITHOUT reduce cost meaning you are losing damage by not having the juicy damage glyph, and the total value of seducer reduce cost is equal to about 1.5 - 2 reduce cost glyphs, so when it comes to damage, its 129 spell damage of shackle VS 174 of glyph u use with seducer.

My conclusion : Shackle breaker gimps your overall damage in favor of 2K more max stam and 129 weapon damage (which is irrelevant) 129 of stam regen (which you wont feel and cant amplify much with mooncalf), and you will lose a reduce cost worth of 1.5 - 2 glyphs.

What I do when I need more max stam, is put 1 or 2 mag regen glyph, keep seducer, go trifood. Thats 2 k more stam than shackle.

BUT, Shackle will certainly still work, it won't give you a non functional setup, u certainly can go with it if u like it I just wrote why I went a different way but it DOES work. However if u really don't want seducer, I recommend Amberplasm over shackle, its far better sustain than shackle.

kaithuzar

What are your thoughts on lich back bar with tri-stat food?

Tawrich

@kaithuzar Lich back bar will mean u have to go with a front bar damage set and a 2 pc monster. Seducer is more magic sustain than lich but seducer can't be only on back bar so as back bar only lich wins. Lich will not give u better sustain than seducer, so food will stay the same anyway, if u wanna change food, u may need atro mundus or mag regen glyphs.

I didn't go that way because I don't like relying on a monster proc and felt like a build with 2 double barred sets will be better well rounded. Necropotence is also a great double bar set cuz with it ur heal wards are MASSIVE ( healing ward scales by missing health AND max mag). Seducer is also the best mag sustain set in the game, far outperforms lich if double barred.

Going back bar lich means u have a bit less sustain and a front bar set means u will lose the defense necro gives, BUT u gain a monster set, lich back bar + spinner front bar + monster. Not my thing cuz seducer is more sustain, necro is defense and offense at the same time, domihaus 1pc is sexy, and monster set proc is RNG, but thats me, its not better or worse, its different preferences .

Carelxss

Have you compared spinner, necro, and maiden?

kaithuzar

@Tawrich
I get what you mean about the rng proc thing, but grothdarr proc's so often because I'm using crushing shock!
Right now I'm using julianos for my 5 piece but soon I'm swapping that out for scathing mage as I just need the destro staff now.

I've typically done the meteor + agony combo to get many of the more difficult kills but I've been playing around with whenever grothdarr procs using bats for ult as well & just sap; pretty decent tri-fecta of aoe damage since I'm running spell pen mundus stone giving the ~15k penetration total; i just haven't been able to sustain as you stated but i haven't tried with lich yet as i wanted to ask.

I do agree that your setup is really good, but i'm not sure if i could utilize it for my playstyle & definitely don't have the necro gear at current.

Synozeer

IMO Lich gives a lot more sustain that Seducer. I've used both on my build and I run out of magicka a lot more with Seducer than Lich.

Tawrich

@Synozeer The only time when recovery wins against reduce cost is when u are line of sighting and not casting anything at all, other than that seducer is overall more sustain if u are actually weaving and mostly offensive.

Seducer's reduce cost averages about 400-700 recovery if converted ( very very roughly converted). Lich's recovery is 20 sec and has to be procced and has cooldown, giving seducer the upperhand as its available all the time.

What class are u and what food/mundus/items u run them with? Was seducer the only variable u swapped for lich?

Tawrich

@Carelxss yes, I have in the video. Spinner and war maiden are good when u have them active front bar only, necropotence truly shines when u both bar it as it helps both ur defense and offense.

Tawrich

@kaithuzar to understand the difference between lich and seducer u have to compare reduce cost to recovery.

Recovery helps u alot when u line of sight from ur opponent and don't cast anything.

Reduce cost helps when u are in the fight and casting stuff, it also helps u more when effected by cost poisons or siphoner cp. It saves u when u are so pressured by several enemies that u have to ward and cloak to save urself.

A good build must have a respectable amount of both cuz both situations can happen. Usually 2k recovery is recommended but with seducer I sit at 1.8k without any sustain problems.

If u go with lich having a reduce cost glyph can make everything even smoother.

Brrrofski

Tawrich wrote: »

@Mangeli200194 I experimented with Shacklebreaker in UESP build editor for an entire week to find some use for it. It will end up giving u less than 1k more max mag than seducer, and 2K more max stam. It will give u a 129 stam regen that wont change anything at all in your performance, its not enough to force you to invest in mooncalf CP for a good gain and without that, if you use leeching strikes you will not feel its stam regen at all, And its definitely not enough to allow you to go siphoning attacks instead of leeching strikes.

It will give u 1 more line of damage and 1 line of recovery. Seducer gives u 2 line of recovery and reduce cost, allowing u to invest in damage glyphs for jewelry (highest priority glyphs because of their high value). With Shackle , u will be forced to at least put 1 mag regen glyph to reach the recovery seducer gives you WITHOUT reduce cost meaning you are losing damage by not having the juicy damage glyph, and the total value of seducer reduce cost is equal to about 1.5 - 2 reduce cost glyphs, so when it comes to damage, its 129 spell damage of shackle VS 174 of glyph u use with seducer.

My conclusion : Shackle breaker gimps your overall damage in favor of 2K more max stam and 129 weapon damage (which is irrelevant) 129 of stam regen (which you wont feel and cant amplify much with mooncalf), and you will lose a reduce cost worth of 1.5 - 2 glyphs.

What I do when I need more max stam, is put 1 or 2 mag regen glyph, keep seducer, go trifood. Thats 2 k more stam than shackle.

BUT, Shackle will certainly still work, it won't give you a non functional setup, u certainly can go with it if u like it I just wrote why I went a different way but it DOES work. However if u really don't want seducer, I recommend Amberplasm over shackle, its far better sustain than shackle.

On a NB with vamp, the Stam regen is nice. With shacklebreaker, 3 hajeikos and withmothers it's great max stats and sustain. Plus a bit of damage too.

If you're using cloak on your NB, I prefer regen over reduced cost. Two cloak last 6 seconds. That's three ticks of regen vs two uses of reduced cost. I've played around a lot with NB and don't rate reduced cost. If you were going reduced cost, I'd probably go alteration mastery anyway. 2% less cost reduction on magica abilities but 6% reduction on ults, block, bash, Sprint, dodge etc

Tawrich

Brrrofski wrote: »

Tawrich wrote: »

@Mangeli200194 I experimented with Shacklebreaker in UESP build editor for an entire week to find some use for it. It will end up giving u less than 1k more max mag than seducer, and 2K more max stam. It will give u a 129 stam regen that wont change anything at all in your performance, its not enough to force you to invest in mooncalf CP for a good gain and without that, if you use leeching strikes you will not feel its stam regen at all, And its definitely not enough to allow you to go siphoning attacks instead of leeching strikes.

It will give u 1 more line of damage and 1 line of recovery. Seducer gives u 2 line of recovery and reduce cost, allowing u to invest in damage glyphs for jewelry (highest priority glyphs because of their high value). With Shackle , u will be forced to at least put 1 mag regen glyph to reach the recovery seducer gives you WITHOUT reduce cost meaning you are losing damage by not having the juicy damage glyph, and the total value of seducer reduce cost is equal to about 1.5 - 2 reduce cost glyphs, so when it comes to damage, its 129 spell damage of shackle VS 174 of glyph u use with seducer.

My conclusion : Shackle breaker gimps your overall damage in favor of 2K more max stam and 129 weapon damage (which is irrelevant) 129 of stam regen (which you wont feel and cant amplify much with mooncalf), and you will lose a reduce cost worth of 1.5 - 2 glyphs.

What I do when I need more max stam, is put 1 or 2 mag regen glyph, keep seducer, go trifood. Thats 2 k more stam than shackle.

BUT, Shackle will certainly still work, it won't give you a non functional setup, u certainly can go with it if u like it I just wrote why I went a different way but it DOES work. However if u really don't want seducer, I recommend Amberplasm over shackle, its far better sustain than shackle.

On a NB with vamp, the Stam regen is nice. With shacklebreaker, 3 hajeikos and withmothers it's great max stats and sustain. Plus a bit of damage too.

If you're using cloak on your NB, I prefer regen over reduced cost. Two cloak last 6 seconds. That's three ticks of regen vs two uses of reduced cost. I've played around a lot with NB and don't rate reduced cost. If you were going reduced cost, I'd probably go alteration mastery anyway. 2% less cost reduction on magica abilities but 6% reduction on ults, block, bash, Sprint, dodge etc

Alteration if combined with necro makes 6 light 1 heavy instead of 5/ 1/ 1, on a max mag oriented setup that 2% does matter but they both in the end perform similarly.

With leeching strikes i just don't need anything else for stam thus alteration wouldn't give me anything extra.(I did play with it too).

Siphoner cp can reduce ur stam and mag rec, while it doesn't effect leeching strikes and cost reduction.

Which amount of regen are u comparing to reduce cost? If cloak costs 3654, 8% of that is almost 300 magicka, so if we are talking 2 cloaks, thats 600 magicka gain equivalent, how much mag recovery are we comparing it to? Seducer also has 2 lines of recovery while shackle has 1.

I use witch mother with seducer, 3 prism, domihaus and I sit at 13k stam which is enough, if I needed more stam id go trifood, that gives 2k more stam than shackle, 1k more hp and same mag as shackle, but again, why? Id take more mag sustain over 2k stam every day.

For no cp i go trifood and 2 mag rec glyph, 3prism, 15k+ stam in no cp ( u can see the max stam in my gameplay video no cp part.)

Shackle doesn't allow u to go full spell damage glyphs while seducer does. The only time it does allow u is if u go atro mundus, and losing mage mundus for a necro build isn't worth it. So its not overall more damage. U have to consider that seducer+witch mother opens mundus options.

If my word isn't enough and u want someone else's opinion, read @NightbladeMechanics forum post on shackle and how it compares.

Brrrofski

Tawrich wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Tawrich wrote: »

@Mangeli200194 I experimented with Shacklebreaker in UESP build editor for an entire week to find some use for it. It will end up giving u less than 1k more max mag than seducer, and 2K more max stam. It will give u a 129 stam regen that wont change anything at all in your performance, its not enough to force you to invest in mooncalf CP for a good gain and without that, if you use leeching strikes you will not feel its stam regen at all, And its definitely not enough to allow you to go siphoning attacks instead of leeching strikes.

It will give u 1 more line of damage and 1 line of recovery. Seducer gives u 2 line of recovery and reduce cost, allowing u to invest in damage glyphs for jewelry (highest priority glyphs because of their high value). With Shackle , u will be forced to at least put 1 mag regen glyph to reach the recovery seducer gives you WITHOUT reduce cost meaning you are losing damage by not having the juicy damage glyph, and the total value of seducer reduce cost is equal to about 1.5 - 2 reduce cost glyphs, so when it comes to damage, its 129 spell damage of shackle VS 174 of glyph u use with seducer.

My conclusion : Shackle breaker gimps your overall damage in favor of 2K more max stam and 129 weapon damage (which is irrelevant) 129 of stam regen (which you wont feel and cant amplify much with mooncalf), and you will lose a reduce cost worth of 1.5 - 2 glyphs.

What I do when I need more max stam, is put 1 or 2 mag regen glyph, keep seducer, go trifood. Thats 2 k more stam than shackle.

BUT, Shackle will certainly still work, it won't give you a non functional setup, u certainly can go with it if u like it I just wrote why I went a different way but it DOES work. However if u really don't want seducer, I recommend Amberplasm over shackle, its far better sustain than shackle.

On a NB with vamp, the Stam regen is nice. With shacklebreaker, 3 hajeikos and withmothers it's great max stats and sustain. Plus a bit of damage too.

If you're using cloak on your NB, I prefer regen over reduced cost. Two cloak last 6 seconds. That's three ticks of regen vs two uses of reduced cost. I've played around a lot with NB and don't rate reduced cost. If you were going reduced cost, I'd probably go alteration mastery anyway. 2% less cost reduction on magica abilities but 6% reduction on ults, block, bash, Sprint, dodge etc

Alteration if combined with necro makes 6 light 1 heavy instead of 5/ 1/ 1, on a max mag oriented setup that 2% does matter but they both in the end perform similarly.

With leeching strikes i just don't need anything else for stam thus alteration wouldn't give me anything extra.(I did play with it too).

Siphoner cp can reduce ur stam and mag rec, while it doesn't effect leeching strikes and cost reduction.

Which amount of regen are u comparing to reduce cost? If cloak costs 3654, 8% of that is almost 300 magicka, so if we are talking 2 cloaks, thats 600 magicka gain equivalent, how much mag recovery are we comparing it to? Seducer also has 2 lines of recovery while shackle has 1.

I use witch mother with seducer, 3 prism, domihaus and I sit at 13k stam which is enough, if I needed more stam id go trifood, that gives 2k more stam than shackle, 1k more hp and same mag as shackle, but again, why? Id take more mag sustain over 2k stam every day.

For no cp i go trifood and 2 mag rec glyph, 3prism, 15k+ stam in no cp ( u can see the max stam in my gameplay video no cp part.)

Shackle doesn't allow u to go full spell damage glyphs while seducer does. The only time it does allow u is if u go atro mundus, and losing mage mundus for a necro build isn't worth it. So its not overall more damage. U have to consider that seducer+witch mother opens mundus options.

If my word isn't enough and u want someone else's opinion, read @NightbladeMechanics forum post on shackle and how it compares.

I don't need to use leeching or syphoning on my NB. my sustain for both Stam and magica is spot on for how I play. So it also frees up a spot. If I dropped shackle for seducer I'd either have to drop mag regen for max stam or try to fit leeching strikes on a bar for the class with imo the hardest time choosing 10 skills for.

I did see kena's post on it. Using seducer has it's good points but so does shackle. Increasing Stam regen for a vamp NB works better than just a decent Stam pool imo. I also prefer magica regen over cost reduction on a NB.

Tawrich

Brrrofski wrote: »

Tawrich wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Tawrich wrote: »

@Mangeli200194 I experimented with Shacklebreaker in UESP build editor for an entire week to find some use for it. It will end up giving u less than 1k more max mag than seducer, and 2K more max stam. It will give u a 129 stam regen that wont change anything at all in your performance, its not enough to force you to invest in mooncalf CP for a good gain and without that, if you use leeching strikes you will not feel its stam regen at all, And its definitely not enough to allow you to go siphoning attacks instead of leeching strikes.

It will give u 1 more line of damage and 1 line of recovery. Seducer gives u 2 line of recovery and reduce cost, allowing u to invest in damage glyphs for jewelry (highest priority glyphs because of their high value). With Shackle , u will be forced to at least put 1 mag regen glyph to reach the recovery seducer gives you WITHOUT reduce cost meaning you are losing damage by not having the juicy damage glyph, and the total value of seducer reduce cost is equal to about 1.5 - 2 reduce cost glyphs, so when it comes to damage, its 129 spell damage of shackle VS 174 of glyph u use with seducer.

My conclusion : Shackle breaker gimps your overall damage in favor of 2K more max stam and 129 weapon damage (which is irrelevant) 129 of stam regen (which you wont feel and cant amplify much with mooncalf), and you will lose a reduce cost worth of 1.5 - 2 glyphs.

What I do when I need more max stam, is put 1 or 2 mag regen glyph, keep seducer, go trifood. Thats 2 k more stam than shackle.

BUT, Shackle will certainly still work, it won't give you a non functional setup, u certainly can go with it if u like it I just wrote why I went a different way but it DOES work. However if u really don't want seducer, I recommend Amberplasm over shackle, its far better sustain than shackle.

On a NB with vamp, the Stam regen is nice. With shacklebreaker, 3 hajeikos and withmothers it's great max stats and sustain. Plus a bit of damage too.

If you're using cloak on your NB, I prefer regen over reduced cost. Two cloak last 6 seconds. That's three ticks of regen vs two uses of reduced cost. I've played around a lot with NB and don't rate reduced cost. If you were going reduced cost, I'd probably go alteration mastery anyway. 2% less cost reduction on magica abilities but 6% reduction on ults, block, bash, Sprint, dodge etc

Alteration if combined with necro makes 6 light 1 heavy instead of 5/ 1/ 1, on a max mag oriented setup that 2% does matter but they both in the end perform similarly.

With leeching strikes i just don't need anything else for stam thus alteration wouldn't give me anything extra.(I did play with it too).

Siphoner cp can reduce ur stam and mag rec, while it doesn't effect leeching strikes and cost reduction.

Which amount of regen are u comparing to reduce cost? If cloak costs 3654, 8% of that is almost 300 magicka, so if we are talking 2 cloaks, thats 600 magicka gain equivalent, how much mag recovery are we comparing it to? Seducer also has 2 lines of recovery while shackle has 1.

I use witch mother with seducer, 3 prism, domihaus and I sit at 13k stam which is enough, if I needed more stam id go trifood, that gives 2k more stam than shackle, 1k more hp and same mag as shackle, but again, why? Id take more mag sustain over 2k stam every day.

For no cp i go trifood and 2 mag rec glyph, 3prism, 15k+ stam in no cp ( u can see the max stam in my gameplay video no cp part.)

Shackle doesn't allow u to go full spell damage glyphs while seducer does. The only time it does allow u is if u go atro mundus, and losing mage mundus for a necro build isn't worth it. So its not overall more damage. U have to consider that seducer+witch mother opens mundus options.

If my word isn't enough and u want someone else's opinion, read @NightbladeMechanics forum post on shackle and how it compares.

I don't need to use leeching or syphoning on my NB. my sustain for both Stam and magica is spot on for how I play. So it also frees up a spot. If I dropped shackle for seducer I'd either have to drop mag regen for max stam or try to fit leeching strikes on a bar for the class with imo the hardest time choosing 10 skills for.

I did see kena's post on it. Using seducer has it's good points but so does shackle. Increasing Stam regen for a vamp NB works better than just a decent Stam pool imo. I also prefer magica regen over cost reduction on a NB.

Its personal preference. I don't like dropping leeching strikes because i feel safer with its stam sustain since siphoner doesn't touch it, the point was to make something that can work in most situations and few things counter it,(also love the small heal ticks.)
Only a decent max stam pool is ofc not enough, u are correct, thats why i kept to leeching.

I myself free up space with spell power potions, frees 2 slots, lets u drop inner light and degen, both very important, but again thats the whole reason why this mmo is great, we can go play it with our own styles!

Also, if u like dropping leeching, give a small consideration to amber too!

I just tried to explain why I went with what I went but if shackle is working for u don't let anyone say no to it and I hope I didn't seem offensive

Shackle and assassin guile makes me feel like ZoS is preparing for some dramatic mechanic changes which would allow hybrid builds to be really good in the future, its not the first time they prepare for some dramatic change before doing it. Cuz both sets flood u with stats that come to full realization if u are a hybrid (example: weapon damage+spell damage as 1 bonus).

IlCanis_LupuslI

Tawrich wrote: »

@Mangeli200194 I experimented with Shacklebreaker in UESP build editor for an entire week to find some use for it. It will end up giving u less than 1k more max mag than seducer, and 2K more max stam. It will give u a 129 stam regen that wont change anything at all in your performance, its not enough to force you to invest in mooncalf CP for a good gain and without that, if you use leeching strikes you will not feel its stam regen at all, And its definitely not enough to allow you to go siphoning attacks instead of leeching strikes.

It will give u 1 more line of damage and 1 line of recovery. Seducer gives u 2 line of recovery and reduce cost, allowing u to invest in damage glyphs for jewelry (highest priority glyphs because of their high value). With Shackle , u will be forced to at least put 1 mag regen glyph to reach the recovery seducer gives you WITHOUT reduce cost meaning you are losing damage by not having the juicy damage glyph, and the total value of seducer reduce cost is equal to about 1.5 - 2 reduce cost glyphs, so when it comes to damage, its 129 spell damage of shackle VS 174 of glyph u use with seducer.

My conclusion : Shackle breaker gimps your overall damage in favor of 2K more max stam and 129 weapon damage (which is irrelevant) 129 of stam regen (which you wont feel and cant amplify much with mooncalf), and you will lose a reduce cost worth of 1.5 - 2 glyphs.

What I do when I need more max stam, is put 1 or 2 mag regen glyph, keep seducer, go trifood. Thats 2 k more stam than shackle.

BUT, Shackle will certainly still work, it won't give you a non functional setup, u certainly can go with it if u like it I just wrote why I went a different way but it DOES work. However if u really don't want seducer, I recommend Amberplasm over shackle, its far better sustain than shackle.

Shacklebreaker saves my Life 20 times a day when People cant Run me out of stamina in PvP im sticking with it thanks

Tawrich

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Tawrich wrote: »

@Mangeli200194 I experimented with Shacklebreaker in UESP build editor for an entire week to find some use for it. It will end up giving u less than 1k more max mag than seducer, and 2K more max stam. It will give u a 129 stam regen that wont change anything at all in your performance, its not enough to force you to invest in mooncalf CP for a good gain and without that, if you use leeching strikes you will not feel its stam regen at all, And its definitely not enough to allow you to go siphoning attacks instead of leeching strikes.

It will give u 1 more line of damage and 1 line of recovery. Seducer gives u 2 line of recovery and reduce cost, allowing u to invest in damage glyphs for jewelry (highest priority glyphs because of their high value). With Shackle , u will be forced to at least put 1 mag regen glyph to reach the recovery seducer gives you WITHOUT reduce cost meaning you are losing damage by not having the juicy damage glyph, and the total value of seducer reduce cost is equal to about 1.5 - 2 reduce cost glyphs, so when it comes to damage, its 129 spell damage of shackle VS 174 of glyph u use with seducer.

My conclusion : Shackle breaker gimps your overall damage in favor of 2K more max stam and 129 weapon damage (which is irrelevant) 129 of stam regen (which you wont feel and cant amplify much with mooncalf), and you will lose a reduce cost worth of 1.5 - 2 glyphs.

What I do when I need more max stam, is put 1 or 2 mag regen glyph, keep seducer, go trifood. Thats 2 k more stam than shackle.

BUT, Shackle will certainly still work, it won't give you a non functional setup, u certainly can go with it if u like it I just wrote why I went a different way but it DOES work. However if u really don't want seducer, I recommend Amberplasm over shackle, its far better sustain than shackle.

Shacklebreaker saves my Life 20 times a day when People cant Run me out of stamina in PvP im sticking with it thanks

I'm glad you found a use for it, and I'm happy that you are happy hope it will save you many more times.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Its a nice middleground between amber and seducer thats why i like it

Carelxss

@Tawrich for running dual wield what two traits would be optimal if youre running around 45k max magic? I was thinking two infused swords

Tawrich

@Carelxss It can depend alot on what sets you are running. If u want my advice, infused+shock is a good combo, u could do infused + shock + flame. I wouldnt go oblivion, its damage is low, but ur choice.

If you are not using spinner or lover mundus, sharp is also still good. Nirnhoned in my own testings came really really close to sharp.

Infused simply means your light attacks with ur swords do big damage cuz of the enchant (like, really big hits), while going sharp/nirnhoned means ur abilities will do more damage, its a choice of playstyle.

If u want stable pressure, infused is awesome, if you want those juicy ultimate combos with merciless proc, sharp/nirn is great!

Infused shines better if u are up-close and personal with ur opponent, cloak less and brawl more, sharp/nirn does a bit better when u cloak away, get distance, then gap close back in, do a rotation, a combo, then cloak away and repeat.

Carelxss

@Tawrich i think im going seducer and mostly likely necro or warmaiden, so i was thinking of either doing 2 infused since i will be weaving alot for merciless or 1 nirn 1 infused

Brrrofski

Tawrich wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Tawrich wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Tawrich wrote: »

@Mangeli200194 I experimented with Shacklebreaker in UESP build editor for an entire week to find some use for it. It will end up giving u less than 1k more max mag than seducer, and 2K more max stam. It will give u a 129 stam regen that wont change anything at all in your performance, its not enough to force you to invest in mooncalf CP for a good gain and without that, if you use leeching strikes you will not feel its stam regen at all, And its definitely not enough to allow you to go siphoning attacks instead of leeching strikes.

It will give u 1 more line of damage and 1 line of recovery. Seducer gives u 2 line of recovery and reduce cost, allowing u to invest in damage glyphs for jewelry (highest priority glyphs because of their high value). With Shackle , u will be forced to at least put 1 mag regen glyph to reach the recovery seducer gives you WITHOUT reduce cost meaning you are losing damage by not having the juicy damage glyph, and the total value of seducer reduce cost is equal to about 1.5 - 2 reduce cost glyphs, so when it comes to damage, its 129 spell damage of shackle VS 174 of glyph u use with seducer.

My conclusion : Shackle breaker gimps your overall damage in favor of 2K more max stam and 129 weapon damage (which is irrelevant) 129 of stam regen (which you wont feel and cant amplify much with mooncalf), and you will lose a reduce cost worth of 1.5 - 2 glyphs.

What I do when I need more max stam, is put 1 or 2 mag regen glyph, keep seducer, go trifood. Thats 2 k more stam than shackle.

BUT, Shackle will certainly still work, it won't give you a non functional setup, u certainly can go with it if u like it I just wrote why I went a different way but it DOES work. However if u really don't want seducer, I recommend Amberplasm over shackle, its far better sustain than shackle.

On a NB with vamp, the Stam regen is nice. With shacklebreaker, 3 hajeikos and withmothers it's great max stats and sustain. Plus a bit of damage too.

If you're using cloak on your NB, I prefer regen over reduced cost. Two cloak last 6 seconds. That's three ticks of regen vs two uses of reduced cost. I've played around a lot with NB and don't rate reduced cost. If you were going reduced cost, I'd probably go alteration mastery anyway. 2% less cost reduction on magica abilities but 6% reduction on ults, block, bash, Sprint, dodge etc

Alteration if combined with necro makes 6 light 1 heavy instead of 5/ 1/ 1, on a max mag oriented setup that 2% does matter but they both in the end perform similarly.

With leeching strikes i just don't need anything else for stam thus alteration wouldn't give me anything extra.(I did play with it too).

Siphoner cp can reduce ur stam and mag rec, while it doesn't effect leeching strikes and cost reduction.

Which amount of regen are u comparing to reduce cost? If cloak costs 3654, 8% of that is almost 300 magicka, so if we are talking 2 cloaks, thats 600 magicka gain equivalent, how much mag recovery are we comparing it to? Seducer also has 2 lines of recovery while shackle has 1.

I use witch mother with seducer, 3 prism, domihaus and I sit at 13k stam which is enough, if I needed more stam id go trifood, that gives 2k more stam than shackle, 1k more hp and same mag as shackle, but again, why? Id take more mag sustain over 2k stam every day.

For no cp i go trifood and 2 mag rec glyph, 3prism, 15k+ stam in no cp ( u can see the max stam in my gameplay video no cp part.)

Shackle doesn't allow u to go full spell damage glyphs while seducer does. The only time it does allow u is if u go atro mundus, and losing mage mundus for a necro build isn't worth it. So its not overall more damage. U have to consider that seducer+witch mother opens mundus options.

If my word isn't enough and u want someone else's opinion, read @NightbladeMechanics forum post on shackle and how it compares.

I don't need to use leeching or syphoning on my NB. my sustain for both Stam and magica is spot on for how I play. So it also frees up a spot. If I dropped shackle for seducer I'd either have to drop mag regen for max stam or try to fit leeching strikes on a bar for the class with imo the hardest time choosing 10 skills for.

I did see kena's post on it. Using seducer has it's good points but so does shackle. Increasing Stam regen for a vamp NB works better than just a decent Stam pool imo. I also prefer magica regen over cost reduction on a NB.

Its personal preference. I don't like dropping leeching strikes because i feel safer with its stam sustain since siphoner doesn't touch it, the point was to make something that can work in most situations and few things counter it,(also love the small heal ticks.)
Only a decent max stam pool is ofc not enough, u are correct, thats why i kept to leeching.

I myself free up space with spell power potions, frees 2 slots, lets u drop inner light and degen, both very important, but again thats the whole reason why this mmo is great, we can go play it with our own styles!

Also, if u like dropping leeching, give a small consideration to amber too!

I just tried to explain why I went with what I went but if shackle is working for u don't let anyone say no to it and I hope I didn't seem offensive

Shackle and assassin guile makes me feel like ZoS is preparing for some dramatic mechanic changes which would allow hybrid builds to be really good in the future, its not the first time they prepare for some dramatic change before doing it. Cuz both sets flood u with stats that come to full realization if u are a hybrid (example: weapon damage+spell damage as 1 bonus).

Yeh, it's good that there are so many options to run. Which is nice.

I cannot drop inner light on magica builds. More for the max magica to be honest. Tried but always go back to it.

I ran Amber for a long time on my sorc when mazzatun first came out. Allowed me to use shuffle on my overload to annoy people that little bit more who hate sorcs I choose shacklebreaker over it due to crafting in all honesty. 5,1,1 trait and even appearence to be fair are all nice choices to have.

Tawrich

@Carelxss I can't comment on 1 nirn 1 infused, I'm really clueless about how that will perform but 2 infused is something I myself tried and it worked decent. Some choose to weave with resto staff and then use their duel wield bar ONLY for ult+ merciless proc (in this case u are better off with nirn or sharp), but this is totally a preference and playstyle thing.

If u are ok with weaving with ur swords, infused is really good Warmaiden, necro and spinner all work good!

Make sure to include leeching strikes for ur stamina, if you don't want to have it with u, u need amberplasm or tripot, but if you have it, u are good to go. DW generally has less problem with bar space than staff because you don't need to include a staff ability there anymore so you should have enough bar space for leeching strikes.

If u need more bar space, use spell power potion and take out degeneration/ sap from ur bar.

Best of luck for you there, I hope you will enjoy your setup

Exodium

Spinner front bar lich back bar valkyn is working amazingly for me. 3 dots with crippling, entropy and destructive reach means that my valkyn procs consistently and hits people for 5k thanks to spinners. I think this setup has best burst potential.

In saying that maybe the above posts thst mention seducer or necro give more sustained dps, but definitely not as bursty.

Carelxss

@Tawrich okay ill try the 2 infused swords and i was going to go argonian for the stam management with potions to see if i wouldnt have to use leeching

Tawrich

Carelxss wrote: »

@Tawrich okay ill try the 2 infused swords and i was going to go argonian for the stam management with potions to see if i wouldnt have to use leeching

If u go Argonian then u might get away with pots alone Argonian OP, lizards!