Mag Sorc PVp build help

bardx86

Anyone have an optimal PVP build for spinners/lich (add any monster set)? Current stats are 44.5k mag 2700 SD buffed with surge 3k with spell damage glyph 15k pen, 44.5% crit 1800 reg around 575 CP. Not concerned about stam/stam regen in this conversation ATM and will adjust as needed. Now i can swap stuff around and have tired different configuration but my max frag PVE is around 16k non crib 27k crit. I mention PVE as max damage as I just use that to test and understand what that damage will equate to in PVP. No matter how i adjust (like switch mundus to SD or Mag, or change CP points) I still only hit with frags for around 27k PVE. I guess I'm looking for an optional damage output with theses sets that will translate to competitive damage in PVP, or am I already optimal?

Thanks,
Elured

Biro123

I'm guessing you have all 3 jewels with spell damage? I'd kind of think you're probably already optimal(or close to it) for damage with those sets. I'd be a little concerned about your sustain though. 1800 before lich proc feels low to me if using the staff spammable.

What weapon and traits are you using (and is that flexible)? What skills are you slotting?

bardx86

Biro123 wrote: »

I'm guessing you have all 3 jewels with spell damage? I'd kind of think you're probably already optimal(or close to it) for damage with those sets. I'd be a little concerned about your sustain though. 1800 before lich proc feels low to me if using the staff spammable.

What weapon and traits are you using (and is that flexible)? What skills are you slotting?

Ya all damage. I agree on sustain and as i said i can move that around and run with 2300 regen but i was looking for optimal damage with these sets. Spells are pretty normal front wrath, inner light, frags, force plus, harden, meteor. But ya I'm thinking I'm close to optima.

oh and I'm using the spell damage glyph with sharpened.

Beardimus

Does all sound pretty good, remember your CP setup can make a big difference so listing those make help folks diagnose too

Biro123

I usually run my spelldamage glyph on an infused resto - and have curse back-barred.. (so used to starting on the back-bar with LA->curse-> to give that spell-dmg boost)

That frees up your front-bar staff to have a damaging glyph... Perhaps switch it for infused too? (Your pen is already good with spinners/light-armour - and a bit of cp?)

For monster sets, you could go for slimcraw for the straight 8% boost (never tried it myself) - or look for individual pieces for max mag/spell-dmg bonuses.. But its hard to know if those could be out-performed by something like shadowrend or IG.. its kind of situational.

bardx86

Beardimus wrote: »

Does all sound pretty good, remember your CP setup can make a big difference so listing those make help folks diagnose too

pretty standard 60 elfborn, 60 elemental , 50 erosion, and remained I'm putting into master at arms.

Biro123

Maybe prioritise master at arms rather that having it as a leftover.?

bardx86

Biro123 wrote: »

I usually run my spelldamage glyph on an infused resto - and have curse back-barred.. (so used to starting on the back-bar with LA->curse-> to give that spell-dmg boost)

That frees up your front-bar staff to have a damaging glyph... Perhaps switch it for infused too? (Your pen is already good with spinners/light-armour - and a bit of cp?)

For monster sets, you could go for slimcraw for the straight 8% boost (never tried it myself) - or look for individual pieces for max mag/spell-dmg bonuses.. But its hard to know if those could be out-performed by something like shadowrend or IG.. its kind of situational.

oh i like the idea of the damage glyph on the back bar, I already run curse on the back bar. I tried the slimcraw and added damage on frags was around 1k PVE wasn't all that great, PVP would be worse, altho i didn't try it on overall damage in PVP. The overall damage on the rotation could be more, might have to try.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Biro123 wrote: »

Maybe prioritise master at arms rather that having it as a leftover.?

Yes, his 50 Spell Erosion seems a little high. He's already running spinners, and Erosion won't give him as much fire power imo compared to Master At Arms. And I run around with about 35 M-A-A on my 630cp Sorc.

bardx86

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Maybe prioritise master at arms rather that having it as a leftover.?

Yes, his 50 Spell Erosion seems a little high. He's already running spinners, and Erosion won't give him as much fire power imo compared to Master At Arms. And I run around with about 35 M-A-A on my 630cp Sorc.

Ya i was thinking that. Whats a good number on that? I was running high pen as i was tired of all the heavy meta and spells hit like a wet noodle.

Hatoreehanzo

First is to think outside of the box.

2 Julianos Swords
3 Julianos Body 1 Heavy, 1 Medium, 1 Light (Infused chest/legs)
2 War Maiden Body (light, impen)
3 War Maiden Jewelry (I reduced/2 recov)
2 Engine Guardian (light, impen)
1 Maelstrom Resto

DW
Entrop, frags, wrath, curse, inner light, DBoS

Resto
Absorb magic, healing ward, hardened ward, dark exchange, streak, lights champion

Takes-No-Prisoner

bardx86 wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Maybe prioritise master at arms rather that having it as a leftover.?

Yes, his 50 Spell Erosion seems a little high. He's already running spinners, and Erosion won't give him as much fire power imo compared to Master At Arms. And I run around with about 35 M-A-A on my 630cp Sorc.

Ya i was thinking that. Whats a good number on that? I was running high pen as i was tired of all the heavy meta and spells hit like a wet noodle.

I don't run spinners, and I don't want to say any particular number is best for your toon, Only you know that. Me personnaly, I liked having around 20~30 Master At Arms. I wouldn't use that number as a 'dead set' number you should reach for, just make sure you have a good chunk of gold on you and change the stars as the build sees fit.

How I rer-adjust stars is; Typically when I make star changes, I PvP for an hour with the change, re-evaluate, re-open my champion map and reallocate stars as I see fit. There is a delicate eco-system with my stars on my toons, so changing a Star here for me means it's extremely important for survivaliability.

Example of how not to change stars: One guy last night recommended this other player run 50 Ironclad. Other player was complaining about having 28k Resists and getting penetrated and dying quickly(in 1vX). I told him 'Watch for debuffs, LoS, purge debuffs since those are what kill you quick." He proceeded to ignore my advice and change his star.(iE: Want's easy way out, though L2P could be just as effective here)

This is why it's imperative you understand you are the master of your toon, no advice an outsider like me can make him get better. That comes from yourself.

bardx86

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

First is to think outside of the box.

2 Julianos Swords
3 Julianos Body 1 Heavy, 1 Medium, 1 Light (Infused chest/legs)
2 War Maiden Body (light, impen)
3 War Maiden Jewelry (I reduced/2 recov)
2 Engine Guardian (light, impen)
1 Maelstrom Resto

DW
Entrop, frags, wrath, curse, inner light, DBoS

Resto
Absorb magic, healing ward, hardened ward, dark exchange, streak, lights champion

Ran DW for about a year. I'll smoke a DW sorc.

Hatoreehanzo

bardx86 wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

First is to think outside of the box.

2 Julianos Swords
3 Julianos Body 1 Heavy, 1 Medium, 1 Light (Infused chest/legs)
2 War Maiden Body (light, impen)
3 War Maiden Jewelry (I reduced/2 recov)
2 Engine Guardian (light, impen)
1 Maelstrom Resto

DW
Entrop, frags, wrath, curse, inner light, DBoS

Resto
Absorb magic, healing ward, hardened ward, dark exchange, streak, lights champion

Ran DW for about a year. I'll smoke a DW sorc.

I always welcome duels if you'd like to try.

bardx86

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Maybe prioritise master at arms rather that having it as a leftover.?

Yes, his 50 Spell Erosion seems a little high. He's already running spinners, and Erosion won't give him as much fire power imo compared to Master At Arms. And I run around with about 35 M-A-A on my 630cp Sorc.

Ya i was thinking that. Whats a good number on that? I was running high pen as i was tired of all the heavy meta and spells hit like a wet noodle.

I don't run spinners, and I don't want to say any particular number is best for your toon, Only you know that. Me personnaly, I liked having around 20~30 Master At Arms. I wouldn't use that number as a 'dead set' number you should reach for, just make sure you have a good chunk of gold on you and change the stars as the build sees fit.

How I rer-adjust stars is; Typically when I make star changes, I PvP for an hour with the change, re-evaluate, re-open my champion map and reallocate stars as I see fit.

Example of how not to change stars: One guy last night recommended this other player run 50 Ironclad. Other player was complaining about having 28k Resists and getting penetrated and dying quickly(in 1vX). I told him 'Watch for debuffs, LoS, purge debuffs since those are what kill you quick." He proceeded to ignore my advice and change his star.

This is why it's imperative you understand you are the master of your toon, no advice an outsider like me can make him get better. That comes from yourself.

Thanks for the help, much appreciated. I've been playing this game for a few years. I think I'm decent in PVP and I get trying other specs. I guess what I'm looking for maybe is whats a good number for say a frag in PVP? Maybe I'm there. It just seems during my testing that changing say 300 SD or even 3000 Mag it really doesn't effect damage output all that much once battle spirt is applied, maybe 1k. I can kill potatoes all day long, seems thats what a sorcs really built to do. However skilled player running high resist and can heal are virtually unkillable, honestly they could prolly just stand still, hands of the keyboard and mitigate my output (exaggerating a bit but you get the point). I guess i'm looking for the counter to that. Can I build a burst spec to take them out? It's looking like that is a no.

Biro123

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Maybe prioritise master at arms rather that having it as a leftover.?

Yes, his 50 Spell Erosion seems a little high. He's already running spinners, and Erosion won't give him as much fire power imo compared to Master At Arms. And I run around with about 35 M-A-A on my 630cp Sorc.

I go 51. Would go more if not for diminishing returns. I don't really know why people don't value it more. I mean, about the only thing in the PVP sorc toolkit that isn't affected by it is eots, soul-assault and dot components from other ulti's. (along with the splash damage from stuff like curse/wrath etc)

bardx86

Biro123 wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Maybe prioritise master at arms rather that having it as a leftover.?

Yes, his 50 Spell Erosion seems a little high. He's already running spinners, and Erosion won't give him as much fire power imo compared to Master At Arms. And I run around with about 35 M-A-A on my 630cp Sorc.

I go 51. Would go more if not for diminishing returns. I don't really know why people don't value it more. I mean, about the only thing in the PVP sorc toolkit that isn't affected by it is eots, soul-assault and dot components from other ulti's. (along with the splash damage from stuff like curse/wrath etc)

Coolio I'll move some stuff around.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Biro123 wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Maybe prioritise master at arms rather that having it as a leftover.?

Yes, his 50 Spell Erosion seems a little high. He's already running spinners, and Erosion won't give him as much fire power imo compared to Master At Arms. And I run around with about 35 M-A-A on my 630cp Sorc.

I go 51. Would go more if not for diminishing returns. I don't really know why people don't value it more. I mean, about the only thing in the PVP sorc toolkit that isn't affected by it is eots, soul-assault and dot components from other ulti's. (along with the splash damage from stuff like curse/wrath etc)

On my other toons, I put around 30 ish. That includes all Magic and Stam class that are DPS focused. I like to sprinkle some of those ~20 flex points into other damage outlets depending on whats on the ability bar. In fact my abiltiy bar plays a big part in my Star purchases.

My guess, is a lot of folks don't understand the different between what I call; 'Single Hit' abilities, and 'Multi-hit' abilities.

2H skill, Executioner = Single Hit, is buffed by MAA
Biting Jabs = Multi-hit, is buffed by Thaumaturge

bardx86

Hey guys thanks for the feedback!

Takes-No-Prisoner

bardx86 wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Maybe prioritise master at arms rather that having it as a leftover.?

Yes, his 50 Spell Erosion seems a little high. He's already running spinners, and Erosion won't give him as much fire power imo compared to Master At Arms. And I run around with about 35 M-A-A on my 630cp Sorc.

Ya i was thinking that. Whats a good number on that? I was running high pen as i was tired of all the heavy meta and spells hit like a wet noodle.

I don't run spinners, and I don't want to say any particular number is best for your toon, Only you know that. Me personnaly, I liked having around 20~30 Master At Arms. I wouldn't use that number as a 'dead set' number you should reach for, just make sure you have a good chunk of gold on you and change the stars as the build sees fit.

How I rer-adjust stars is; Typically when I make star changes, I PvP for an hour with the change, re-evaluate, re-open my champion map and reallocate stars as I see fit.

Example of how not to change stars: One guy last night recommended this other player run 50 Ironclad. Other player was complaining about having 28k Resists and getting penetrated and dying quickly(in 1vX). I told him 'Watch for debuffs, LoS, purge debuffs since those are what kill you quick." He proceeded to ignore my advice and change his star.

This is why it's imperative you understand you are the master of your toon, no advice an outsider like me can make him get better. That comes from yourself.

Thanks for the help, much appreciated. I've been playing this game for a few years. I think I'm decent in PVP and I get trying other specs. I guess what I'm looking for maybe is whats a good number for say a frag in PVP? Maybe I'm there. It just seems during my testing that changing say 300 SD or even 3000 Mag it really doesn't effect damage output all that much once battle spirt is applied, maybe 1k. I can kill potatoes all day long, seems thats what a sorcs really built to do. However skilled player running high resist and can heal are virtually unkillable, honestly they could prolly just stand still, hands of the keyboard and mitigate my output (exaggerating a bit but you get the point). I guess i'm looking for the counter to that. Can I build a burst spec to take them out? It's looking like that is a no.

Do not build to counter just one players gameplay type. This is not the recommended thing to do. You end up being a master of nothing and losing in situations where you can clearly win. I've been there before.

It's not so much you want to burst them out, it's the learning curve for MagSorc is relatively high that your running into. You start out with a small curve, then it bends up really sharply once you learn to kill potato players. This is where you are at right now.

First off, when I watch good Sorcs take down tanky targets, they play a cat and mouse game. Protecting their resources first, peppering out not-heavily-committing attacks, then bursting when the timing is right. This is the path you have to follow next in your adventure with your MagSorc. This learning what I call 'tempo'.

In musical terminology, tempo [ˈtɛmpo] ("time" in Italian; plural: tempi [ˈtɛmpi]) is the speed or pace of a given piece.

Now you have to learn to out pace your opponent if they can't be bursted down like a potato. To do that, you have to pay attention to combat cues, pre-planning escape routes among other things like it, having confidence, and most importantly knowing your MagSorcs rotation very very tightly.

This is why we see MagSorcs run around with Engine Guardian, it gives them ample resources to play with so they can stay in the fight much longer and get more chances to learn the 'tempo' of the fight without dying too quickly. The Guardian also gets the Hardened Ward shield if used when it's out, allow it to be a secondary target, and hopefully giving you a chance to punish the opponents mistake if they click on the Guardian to attack it.

That is a very quick summary of the L2P you'll have to do, there is much much more I could add, but that is about as simple as I can write it without making a huge wall of text.

I understand you are worried about numbers, so my advice here is, try the L2P route first, It's the least expensive. If you start to see where it all the L2P fits into place, this is when you can go back and say 'This build doesn't work, but here is what I need to do because experience tells me I need X,Y,Z.'

Vanzen

5 amberplasm / 2 Infernal guardian / 4 Magnus

Well rounded build that gets a lot and lot of kills in BG