Is it me or is the master bow really bad now.

leepalmer95

With the weapon/ spell dmg enchant and infused you can have 100% uptime on the glyph. The weapon dmg from it is higher than the masters bow, works with heals and isn't tied to 1 person. It also isn't reliant on injection which can be purged which makes master bow pretty useless vs templars.

Avran_Sylt

If Masters is backbar and they decide to leave it inconsistent such that it will still add the extra weapon damage while off that bar (similar to vMA staff) then it can be stacked with the infused weapon/spell damage buff.

Dymence

Realistic uptime on the enchant is 70%.

That said, all master weapons are extremely out of date when it comes to newer gear and they all need to be overhauled, at least stat wise.

Izaki

They stack... And the Master's Bow enchant lasts much longer. So I wouldn't say that its useless.

leepalmer95

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

They stack... And the Master's Bow enchant lasts much longer. So I wouldn't say that its useless.

Its really low and only vs 1 person though.

I think they need updating, the effects where not updated when they went from v14 to v16.

A 20-30% increase in effects would be nice.

Asardes

And the 1K stamina bonus has been left behind by the recent buff to 1-4p set bonuses too. VDSA could be more attractive if they buffed all Master's weapons, not only the bow. The daggers for example would be quite nice if they increased the bonus by 50% or more.

starkerealm

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I think they need updating, the effects where not updated when they went from v14 to v16.

To be fair, when we went from v14 to v16, all our v14 gear was nerfed, and the v16 stuff was at the level of our pre-patch v14 stuff.

incite

Make Master weapons great again please

idk

leepalmer95 wrote: »

With the weapon/ spell dmg enchant and infused you can have 100% uptime on the glyph. The weapon dmg from it is higher than the masters bow, works with heals and isn't tied to 1 person. It also isn't reliant on injection which can be purged which makes master bow pretty useless vs templars.

There is not a guarantee the weapon/spell damage enchant will proc even with an infused trait. With a DW/Bow or 2H/Bow build the enchant will not last the full duration iirc. The Master Bow enchant will affect damage for the entire 9 seconds.

Not saying that is better, but the comparison seems a little off to me.

leepalmer95

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

With the weapon/ spell dmg enchant and infused you can have 100% uptime on the glyph. The weapon dmg from it is higher than the masters bow, works with heals and isn't tied to 1 person. It also isn't reliant on injection which can be purged which makes master bow pretty useless vs templars.

There is not a guarantee the weapon/spell damage enchant will proc even with an infused trait. With a DW/Bow or 2H/Bow build the enchant will not last the full duration iirc. The Master Bow enchant will affect damage for the entire 9 seconds.

Not saying that is better, but the comparison seems a little off to me.

It always procs if its off cooldown doesn't it?

Lasts 5s

Has a 5s cooldown. Seems like it should always proc.

starkerealm

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

With the weapon/ spell dmg enchant and infused you can have 100% uptime on the glyph. The weapon dmg from it is higher than the masters bow, works with heals and isn't tied to 1 person. It also isn't reliant on injection which can be purged which makes master bow pretty useless vs templars.

There is not a guarantee the weapon/spell damage enchant will proc even with an infused trait. With a DW/Bow or 2H/Bow build the enchant will not last the full duration iirc. The Master Bow enchant will affect damage for the entire 9 seconds.

Not saying that is better, but the comparison seems a little off to me.

It always procs if its off cooldown doesn't it?

Lasts 5s

Has a 5s cooldown. Seems like it should always proc.

Just the initial hit, I thought. I mean, I haven't even looked at the thing in years, and don't have one, so I can't check.

idk

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

With the weapon/ spell dmg enchant and infused you can have 100% uptime on the glyph. The weapon dmg from it is higher than the masters bow, works with heals and isn't tied to 1 person. It also isn't reliant on injection which can be purged which makes master bow pretty useless vs templars.

There is not a guarantee the weapon/spell damage enchant will proc even with an infused trait. With a DW/Bow or 2H/Bow build the enchant will not last the full duration iirc. The Master Bow enchant will affect damage for the entire 9 seconds.

Not saying that is better, but the comparison seems a little off to me.

It always procs if its off cooldown doesn't it?

Lasts 5s

Has a 5s cooldown. Seems like it should always proc.

I do not think enchants have a 100% chance to proc. Especially when once considers Torugs with Infused weapon likely is still less than 100% chance to proc.

I have not tested it. Would be easy with addons. Tap a light attack every 6 seconds over a couple minutes. If it procs each time then it would be 100% chance. I would test only with a infused weapon though, not Torugs since that is what is being discussed here.

Theosis

I never could level the bow

RoyJade

Any enchant has 100% proc chance when off cooldown. Poisons have 10% chance, but enchant (without bug) have 100%.

idk

Ok, given a 100% chance for the enchant to proc:

Master bow keeps 301 weapon damage up for 9 seconds.
Berserker enchant keeps 348 weapon damage up for about 5 seconds.

A Difference of 47 weapon damage but a loss of at least 4 seconds with a typical DW/Bow or 2H/Bow builds. That equates approximately 193 weapon damage from the berserker enchant over a 9 second rotation.

So, even if the berserker lasted 6 seconds the Master Bow would still provide significantly more weapon damage by comparison.

The comparison did not compare infused weapons, but since both would be affected by the infused trait similarly that is irrelevant.

Unless the bow is bugged like lightning staves were on PTS or a poor rotation is being used, the above is fairly correct and 100% uptime of the berserker enchant will not occur.

Hence, the vDSA bow is pretty good. Probably still 2nd best to vMA bow which is appropriate.

overclocker303b14_ESO

ZOS has clearly shown they don't feel like they should do something meaningful like update vDSA gear and would rather spend their time 'balancing' / 'fixing and improving' every patch to keep the hamsters moving forward towards an ultimately unobtainable objective.

Thread is useless.

Now if you had said something like...dear ZOS...I play PVP and I feel <fill in the blank here> is OP I'm betting they would gladly oblige and nerf <fill in the blank here>...but not because they actually give a damn about you.

SanTii.92

Yeah, it is. Backbar infused with weapn enchant is too good to pass by.

idk

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Yeah, it is. Backbar infused with weapn enchant is too good to pass by.

Do not think it would be better in the context OP is mentioning. A non infused master bow would probably deliver more than an infused bow with the berserker enchant due to the shorter uptime for the berserker enchant. The math above is considering non infused all around and the difference is fairly large.

Maybe someone has better math than I provided.

leepalmer95

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Yeah, it is. Backbar infused with weapn enchant is too good to pass by.

Do not think it would be better in the context OP is mentioning. A non infused master bow would probably deliver more than an infused bow with the berserker enchant due to the shorter uptime for the berserker enchant. The math above is considering non infused all around and the difference is fairly large.

Maybe someone has better math than I provided.

Well im of course going to use infused, hence why i said 100% uptime.

idk

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Yeah, it is. Backbar infused with weapn enchant is too good to pass by.

Do not think it would be better in the context OP is mentioning. A non infused master bow would probably deliver more than an infused bow with the berserker enchant due to the shorter uptime for the berserker enchant. The math above is considering non infused all around and the difference is fairly large.

Maybe someone has better math than I provided.

Well im of course going to use infused, hence why i said 100% uptime.

@leepalmer95

How will infused provide 100% uptime if you only visit that bar once every 9 to 10 seconds? It will proc off your first light attack weave going into what, one or two skills. Will probably be off that bar just before the berserker finishes.

leepalmer95

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Yeah, it is. Backbar infused with weapn enchant is too good to pass by.

Do not think it would be better in the context OP is mentioning. A non infused master bow would probably deliver more than an infused bow with the berserker enchant due to the shorter uptime for the berserker enchant. The math above is considering non infused all around and the difference is fairly large.

Maybe someone has better math than I provided.

Well im of course going to use infused, hence why i said 100% uptime.

@leepalmer95

How will infused provide 100% uptime if you only visit that bar once every 9 to 10 seconds? It will proc off your first light attack weave going into what, one or two skills. Will probably be off that bar just before the berserker finishes.

Who only visits the bar every 10s? Back bar is where most of my buffs are, where my relentless is to use assassins will etc..

It's where i heal and when i heal i usually light weave, it's where my cloak is as well.

idk

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Yeah, it is. Backbar infused with weapn enchant is too good to pass by.

Do not think it would be better in the context OP is mentioning. A non infused master bow would probably deliver more than an infused bow with the berserker enchant due to the shorter uptime for the berserker enchant. The math above is considering non infused all around and the difference is fairly large.

Maybe someone has better math than I provided.

Well im of course going to use infused, hence why i said 100% uptime.

@leepalmer95

How will infused provide 100% uptime if you only visit that bar once every 9 to 10 seconds? It will proc off your first light attack weave going into what, one or two skills. Will probably be off that bar just before the berserker finishes.

Who only visits the bar every 10s? Back bar is where most of my buffs are, where my relentless is to use assassins will etc..

It's where i heal and when i heal i usually light weave, it's where my cloak is as well.

You must be talking PvP (which you did not state) because in PvE it is a loss in DPS to swap bars that often and creates a very clunky rotation. In PvE, and especially with stam in PvE, it is about keeping the dots up and doing is smoothly. Makes the difference between getting something like 30-40k dps and breaching 50k. Master bow is certainly the second best bow in the game for PvE.

Additionally, even with swapping back and forth to keep the berserker enchant up it would have to be timed pretty well to get significantly higher benefit on PvE boss fights (for boss dps) and 1v1 fights in PvP. For PvP there are may be better choices as well unless one is just running with zergs.

leepalmer95

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Yeah, it is. Backbar infused with weapn enchant is too good to pass by.

Do not think it would be better in the context OP is mentioning. A non infused master bow would probably deliver more than an infused bow with the berserker enchant due to the shorter uptime for the berserker enchant. The math above is considering non infused all around and the difference is fairly large.

Maybe someone has better math than I provided.

Well im of course going to use infused, hence why i said 100% uptime.

@leepalmer95

How will infused provide 100% uptime if you only visit that bar once every 9 to 10 seconds? It will proc off your first light attack weave going into what, one or two skills. Will probably be off that bar just before the berserker finishes.

Who only visits the bar every 10s? Back bar is where most of my buffs are, where my relentless is to use assassins will etc..

It's where i heal and when i heal i usually light weave, it's where my cloak is as well.

You must be talking PvP (which you did not state) because in PvE it is a loss in DPS to swap bars that often and creates a very clunky rotation. In PvE, and especially with stam in PvE, it is about keeping the dots up and doing is smoothly. Makes the difference between getting something like 30-40k dps and breaching 50k. Master bow is certainly the second best bow in the game for PvE.

Additionally, even with swapping back and forth to keep the berserker enchant up it would have to be timed pretty well to get significantly higher benefit on PvE boss fights (for boss dps) and 1v1 fights in PvP. For PvP there are may be better choices as well unless one is just running with zergs.

Well know i didn't specifically state pve but though't you would of got it when i referred to 'person' and the fact it can be purged.

Why would i use a master bow in pve over Msa bow.

idk

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Yeah, it is. Backbar infused with weapn enchant is too good to pass by.

Do not think it would be better in the context OP is mentioning. A non infused master bow would probably deliver more than an infused bow with the berserker enchant due to the shorter uptime for the berserker enchant. The math above is considering non infused all around and the difference is fairly large.

Maybe someone has better math than I provided.

Well im of course going to use infused, hence why i said 100% uptime.

@leepalmer95

How will infused provide 100% uptime if you only visit that bar once every 9 to 10 seconds? It will proc off your first light attack weave going into what, one or two skills. Will probably be off that bar just before the berserker finishes.

Who only visits the bar every 10s? Back bar is where most of my buffs are, where my relentless is to use assassins will etc..

It's where i heal and when i heal i usually light weave, it's where my cloak is as well.

You must be talking PvP (which you did not state) because in PvE it is a loss in DPS to swap bars that often and creates a very clunky rotation. In PvE, and especially with stam in PvE, it is about keeping the dots up and doing is smoothly. Makes the difference between getting something like 30-40k dps and breaching 50k. Master bow is certainly the second best bow in the game for PvE.

Additionally, even with swapping back and forth to keep the berserker enchant up it would have to be timed pretty well to get significantly higher benefit on PvE boss fights (for boss dps) and 1v1 fights in PvP. For PvP there are may be better choices as well unless one is just running with zergs.

Well know i didn't specifically state pve but though't you would of got it when i referred to 'person' and the fact it can be purged.

Why would i use a master bow in pve over Msa bow.

I said second best. I thought you would have gotten that when I mentioned the master bow was second best.

There may still a better choice of enchant for the bow in PvP like poison, disease or oblivion damage since when in combat with a person, singular. Just thinking out load. Certainly not suggesting those are the best.

Olupajmibanan

incite wrote: »

Make Master weapons great again please

Isn't Master Restoration Staff the best healing staff in the game? And there is no suitable replacement at all. Master Staff or you have no place in vet trials.

Back to bow. Master Bow has been PvP-only thing for very long. There is no PvE situation where you want Master Bow over Maelstrom bow. And currently, even in PvP you are better off running poisons.

templesus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

With the weapon/ spell dmg enchant and infused you can have 100% uptime on the glyph. The weapon dmg from it is higher than the masters bow, works with heals and isn't tied to 1 person. It also isn't reliant on injection which can be purged which makes master bow pretty useless vs templars.

Sure maybe in that one instance masters bow is not better then a berserker glyphed bow but it is completely asinine to say it is "really bad now". I would much rather run a defending or precise bow long before an infused one for PvP and most people would agree, defending for tankiness and precise for crit heals. In both cases the masters bow far outshines the crafted in terms of damage uptime (unless against a templar as stated in which you're *** out of luck) and the max stam part of the enchant is great for your heals as well.

wolfxspice

i personally think that some of master and maelstrom need to be reworked and a 4 piece to compliment the 1h weapon (clearly designed for tanking) but i have a feeling that the "mini trial" later this year is going to have the next must have weapon/gear and this trait rework is a setup for it.

idk

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

incite wrote: »

Make Master weapons great again please

Isn't Master Restoration Staff the best healing staff in the game? And there is no suitable replacement at all. Master Staff or you have no place in vet trials.

Back to bow. Master Bow has been PvP-only thing for very long. There is no PvE situation where you want Master Bow over Maelstrom bow. And currently, even in PvP you are better off running poisons.

Yes, Master rStaff is fabulous, even more so post Morrowind, though there are some fights were the enchant (stam returned) is useless. vHoF second boss is an example. However, vSO troll boss it is great since blocking is required so often.

It is probably more useful to the healer than the Master Bow is to the stam dps, but considering the Master Bow is second best, especially in PvE, it is pretty good and easier for many to get.