Maintenance for the week of September 24:
• PC/Mac: North American and European megaservers for patch maintenance – September 24, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC)

How many plain immortals have we encountered in the Elder Scrolls games?

WhiteCoatSyndrome
WhiteCoatSyndrome
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I use 'plain immortal' for lack of a better way to phrase it; I mean people or other mortal-by-default entities, who for whatever reason were prevented from dying indefinitely, but otherwise have no special powers or effects laid on them. Thus not things like Daedra, dragons or undead.

Dyus is one example; not transformed into anything just unable to die. As I recall Haras was in a similar position until the end of his quest ('not allowed to die until completing the hunt for the pale senche') and in Morrowind
Mistress Dratha after the appropriate quest.

I suspect there are more, so who am I forgetting?
#proud2BAStarObsessedLoony
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
A useful explanation for how RNG works
  • Yakidafi
    Yakidafi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar
    Moons and sands shall be your guide and path.
    PC EU/NA
  • theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO
    Gelebor? Also maybe Yagrum since he's only still alive due to corprus.

    The Drake of Blades and Wilderking/Queen seem to be immortal as well, but probably violate the special powers condition.
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Divayth Fyr may not technically be immortal, but he's in both ESO and the single player games, so...

    Similarly, Neloth is effectively immortal. Though non-canon paths through Morrowind can result in his death (as I recall).

    EDIT: There may be other members of House Telvanni that are effectively immortal due to magic, but it's not completely clear.

    Credit to Mankar Camoran, who may not actually be immortal, but was around for the entirety of the third era.

    Beyond this, the three members of the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur probably count.

    Yagrum is immortal due to Corprus, as is the Nerevarine. The Ash Vampires, and most members of the Sixth House might also be immortal, but that's a bigger question mark. (Worth remembering, the Ash Vampires are neither vampires nor undead, so they do qualify. Their immortality is derived from Corprus mutations as I recall.)

    Cadwell may be mortal, but I kinda doubt it.

    Laloriaran Dynar is another one. He's kind of a special case, the flashback to Glenumbra Moors that you see is just under 3,000 years before the events of ESO proper.

    The Champion of Cyrodiil may have been rendered immortal by the events of Shivering Isles, depending on your perspective. You may also choose to consider them a daedra at that point, and strike them from the options.

    The Vestiage is another big question mark, but it's pretty clear they can't be killed through normal means, and even the extraordinary efforts used against them in Bangkorai seem to have been ineffective.

    Most vampires would technically fit the bill. I know, you said, ignoring undead, though these guys are a slightly different situation than something like a lich or spirit. The oldest one we've encountered in game would be Lamae. Though I'm a little unclear on exactly how old she is. It's possible, tacking on the extra millennia between ESO and Skyrim could make Serana or Valerica the oldest vampire we've actually interacted with.

    Incidentally, depending on how you feel about it, Tiber Septum, and Wulfharth may also fit the bill. You may encounter Talos personally during the main quest of Morrowind (there's a way to miss this encounter, but I don't remember how). Wulfharth is more of a question. There's theories that you're actually playing him in Skryim... so... *shrugs*

    Edited by starkerealm on August 18, 2017 3:07PM
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yakidafi wrote: »
    Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar

    M'aiq's a weird case. He's kinda like Patches in the Fromsoft games. A gag character, but one that keeps coming back.
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • WhiteCoatSyndrome
    WhiteCoatSyndrome
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    @theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO Ooo, Gelebor's a good one! :smiley:
    I know, you said, ignoring undead

    I also said 'mortal-by-default' and 'no special powers or effects laid on them' other than being immortal - which discounts vampires, gods and demi-gods as none of those fit those criteria. The idea being to get an idea of how 'common' the condition is.

    Dynar counts as far as I can tell though. Hard to say if Divayth pulled a trick like
    Dratha

    but I agree it's likely he pulled SOME kind of shenanigans to live to be 4,000 years old.

    Now I think on it, there was an orc in one quest who was basically immortal.
    #proud2BAStarObsessedLoony
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
    A useful explanation for how RNG works
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know, you said, ignoring undead

    I also said 'mortal-by-default' and 'no special powers or effects laid on them' other than being immortal - which discounts vampires, gods and demi-gods as none of those fit those criteria. The idea being to get an idea of how 'common' the condition is.

    The tricky part is that there are a lot of ways for characters to achieve functional immortality on Tamriel, and a delineation like this makes it a little difficult to know who would or wouldn't fit.

    I mean, that definition could absolutely include corprus sufferers, so Yagrum, and the Nerevarine.

    Though, the basic implication seems to be that there are ways to indefinitely extend your life through magic. Something we've seen from characters like Mankar Camoran, and multiple members of House Telvanni.

    In the grand scheme of things, it's probably safe to say, "not very." The assumption is that people will die of old age, but, with mages, that's never completely certain.

    To pull dialog from Oblivion: "The "Commentaries" are contemporary with Tiber Septim, over 400 years ago. So he is unlikely to be still alive, although you never know."
    Now I think on it, there was an orc in one quest who was basically immortal.

    I think the Orc in question was a vampire, but it's been awhile since I ran the quest.
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • Countcalorie
    Countcalorie
    ✭✭✭
    Gelebor? Also maybe Yagrum since he's only still alive due to corprus.

    The Drake of Blades and Wilderking/Queen seem to be immortal as well, but probably violate the special powers condition.
    Divayth Fyr may not technically be immortal, but he's in both ESO and the single player games, so...

    Similarly, Neloth is effectively immortal. Though non-canon paths through Morrowind can result in his death (as I recall).

    EDIT: There may be other members of House Telvanni that are effectively immortal due to magic, but it's not completely clear.

    Credit to Mankar Camoran, who may not actually be immortal, but was around for the entirety of the third era.

    Beyond this, the three members of the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur probably count.

    Yagrum is immortal due to Corprus, as is the Nerevarine. The Ash Vampires, and most members of the Sixth House might also be immortal, but that's a bigger question mark. (Worth remembering, the Ash Vampires are neither vampires nor undead, so they do qualify. Their immortality is derived from Corprus mutations as I recall.)

    Cadwell may be mortal, but I kinda doubt it.

    Laloriaran Dynar is another one. He's kind of a special case, the flashback to Glenumbra Moors that you see is just under 3,000 years before the events of ESO proper.

    The Champion of Cyrodiil may have been rendered immortal by the events of Shivering Isles, depending on your perspective. You may also choose to consider them a daedra at that point, and strike them from the options.

    The Vestiage is another big question mark, but it's pretty clear they can't be killed through normal means, and even the extraordinary efforts used against them in Bangkorai seem to have been ineffective.

    Most vampires would technically fit the bill. I know, you said, ignoring undead, though these guys are a slightly different situation than something like a lich or spirit. The oldest one we've encountered in game would be Lamae. Though I'm a little unclear on exactly how old she is. It's possible, tacking on the extra millennia between ESO and Skyrim could make Serana or Valerica the oldest vampire we've actually interacted with.

    Incidentally, depending on how you feel about it, Tiber Septum, and Wulfharth may also fit the bill. You may encounter Talos personally during the main quest of Morrowind (there's a way to miss this encounter, but I don't remember how). Wulfharth is more of a question. There's theories that you're actually playing him in Skryim... so... *shrugs*
    I think its assumed that the Vestige is a Daedra or Perfect soulshriven vestige.something about being attuned to Nirn instead of the Waters of Oblivion.
    arnt all soulshriven a form of daedra?I mean your physical body is gone and your soul is too if your soulshriven.
  • Countcalorie
    Countcalorie
    ✭✭✭
    Yakidafi wrote: »
    Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar

    M'aiq's a weird case. He's kinda like Patches in the Fromsoft games. A gag character, but one that keeps coming back.

    Patches in bloodborne was weird.just some spider with a bald guys head.very weird.
  • Countcalorie
    Countcalorie
    ✭✭✭
    how is Neloth Immortal? he's just old.remember that the elven lifespan is 1-1000 years and it was only two hundred and something years from when the Nevereane meets Neloth to when the Dragonborn meets Neloth.unless I'm wrong and theres a larger year gap between the Nevereane Prophecy and the Oblivion Crisis.but even if thats true Neloth would still be alive and mortal.
  • Sharee
    Sharee
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    In Cydoriil? A dime dozen :smirk:

    (sorry couldn't resist :))
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yakidafi wrote: »
    Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar

    M'aiq's a weird case. He's kinda like Patches in the Fromsoft games. A gag character, but one that keeps coming back.

    Patches in bloodborne was weird.just some spider with a bald guys head.very weird.

    Also remember, Patches isn't (originally) a Souls character. His first appearance was in Armored Core, as I recall.
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • Rahotu
    Rahotu
    ✭✭✭
    Yakidafi wrote: »
    Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar

    who told you that?
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    arnt all soulshriven a form of daedra?

    We honestly don't know, and there's no official statements on the subject. I mean, if you buy Mankar Camoran's comments in Oblivion, then, yeah, sure, along with everyone else on Nirn.

    The assumption is that the Soul Shriven are effectively daedric is put to the test in Bankorai, and... apparently not.

    "Like a daedra," is a good analogy, but the vestige isn't, actually, one.
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    how is Neloth Immortal? he's just old.remember that the elven lifespan is 1-1000 years and it was only two hundred and something years from when the Nevereane meets Neloth to when the Dragonborn meets Neloth.unless I'm wrong and theres a larger year gap between the Nevereane Prophecy and the Oblivion Crisis.but even if thats true Neloth would still be alive and mortal.

    That's (probably) the statistics for high elves. Dunmer only live for 200-300 years. So, for him to be as spry as he is in Dragonborn, suggests he's been kicking around for a bit longer than he should be.
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO
    In the same vein as the oldest orc how about Nairume?
  • lordrichter
    lordrichter
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rahotu wrote: »
    Yakidafi wrote: »
    Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar

    who told you that?

    I am pretty sure I heard it from Maiq, but he could have been lying.
    PC North America since March 2014
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say NO to Crown Crates! Don't buy what they give for free.
    I collect free, unopened, virgin Crown Crates! 229, so far!

  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rahotu wrote: »
    Yakidafi wrote: »
    Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar

    who told you that?

    I am pretty sure I heard it from Maiq, but he could have been lying.

    "M'aiq's father was Q'iam, from a long line of Q'iams, but he was a known liar."

    And, yeah, you're right, it is from M'aiq dialog, where he claims to be part of a long family, using the same name.
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • MUSTACHMAN654
    MUSTACHMAN654
    ✭✭
    Well Almalexia Sotha Sil and Vivec are kind of immortal being that they are living gods, though Vivec did almost die by Barbas when he tricked you into using Sunrah to give him his powers back.
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well Almalexia Sotha Sil and Vivec are kind of immortal being that they are living gods, though Vivec did almost die by Barbas when he tricked you into using Sunrah to give him his powers back.

    Slight spoiler alert from 2003...

    Almalexia goes bugnuts, and kills Sotha Sil a few years down the line.

    Also makes a credible attempt to wax the real Nerevarine by unleashing Fabricants into Mournhold. Things do not go well from her after that.

    It's an open question if the Nerevarine killed Vivec or not. The game lets you choose to do so, but there's no concrete information which way this went in subsequent games.
    Edited by starkerealm on August 19, 2017 3:36PM
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • WhiteCoatSyndrome
    WhiteCoatSyndrome
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    It's an open question if the Nerevarine killed Vivec or not. The game lets you choose to do so, but there's no concrete information which way this went in subsequent games.

    There was a rumor he got kidnapped by Daedra in Oblivion.
    #proud2BAStarObsessedLoony
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
    A useful explanation for how RNG works
  • Countcalorie
    Countcalorie
    ✭✭✭
    It's an open question if the Nerevarine killed Vivec or not. The game lets you choose to do so, but there's no concrete information which way this went in subsequent games.

    There was a rumor he got kidnapped by Daedra in Oblivion.

    I think its implied he either died or became completely powerless(and therefore useless to any daedra aside for punishing him) as baan dar crashed into nirn causing Red Mountain to erupt didn't it?
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's an open question if the Nerevarine killed Vivec or not. The game lets you choose to do so, but there's no concrete information which way this went in subsequent games.

    There was a rumor he got kidnapped by Daedra in Oblivion.

    I think its implied he either died or became completely powerless(and therefore useless to any daedra aside for punishing him) as baan dar crashed into nirn causing Red Mountain to erupt didn't it?

    Yeah, more or less. In Oblivion it's said that he'd removed himself from public life after the deaths of Almalexia and Sotha Sil. Though that could have meant he was simply dead, and his priesthood was trying to keep it quiet. EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, Oblivion might have suggested that both Vivec and Almalexia were doing fine but had withdrawn, and we know Almalexia is toast.

    When you move into Skyrim, so 200 years later. The assumed outcomes was that he had been put on trial by "the Daedra," but I can't remember what the source for that detail was.
    Edited by starkerealm on August 19, 2017 4:18PM
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • WhiteCoatSyndrome
    WhiteCoatSyndrome
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Yeah, more or less. In Oblivion it's said that he'd removed himself from public life after the deaths of Almalexia and Sotha Sil. Though that could have meant he was simply dead, and his priesthood was trying to keep it quiet. EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, Oblivion might have suggested that both Vivec and Almalexia were doing fine but had withdrawn, and we know Almalexia is toast.

    Where in Oblivion is this info?
    #proud2BAStarObsessedLoony
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
    A useful explanation for how RNG works
  • Asardes
    Asardes
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    I've met a smurf sorc on Vivec once who was only casting hardened ward, harness magicka and healing ward, streaked and jumped on rocks like crazy. Nobody could kill him :)
    Beta tester since February 2014, playing ESO-TU since October 2015
    vMA | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+0
    EU PC CP 1000+
    Member of:
    Pact Veteran Trade
    The Alchemist's Emporium
    Handelsgilde
    Call of the Undaunted


    Characters:
    Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 31 | Master Crafter: all traits, styles & recipes
    Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 17 |
    Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 17 |
    Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 17 |
    Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 17 |
    Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 17 |

    Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 2 |
    Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 2 |
    Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 2 |
    Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 2 |
    Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 2 |
    Milariel | 50 Wolld Elf Warden | AD AR 2 |
    Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 2 |
    Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 2 |
    Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 15 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 0 |
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, more or less. In Oblivion it's said that he'd removed himself from public life after the deaths of Almalexia and Sotha Sil. Though that could have meant he was simply dead, and his priesthood was trying to keep it quiet. EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, Oblivion might have suggested that both Vivec and Almalexia were doing fine but had withdrawn, and we know Almalexia is toast.

    Where in Oblivion is this info?

    Random background dialog off NPCs. In practice the easiest place to farm this stuff is in the Market District, but anywhere with multiple NPCs who will talk about current events should work. I'm not 100% how Oblivion populates its background chatter.

    EDIT: I should add, I think that's the source. It's been a few years, so it could be direct dialog with a dark elf somewhere in the province, and I'm just not remembering it.
    Edited by starkerealm on August 20, 2017 7:40AM
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • Countcalorie
    Countcalorie
    ✭✭✭
    Asardes wrote: »
    I've met a smurf sorc on Vivec once who was only casting hardened ward, harness magicka and healing ward, streaked and jumped on rocks like crazy. Nobody could kill him :)
    we've all seen them before just ignore them.thats there major weakness.
  • lordrichter
    lordrichter
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well Almalexia Sotha Sil and Vivec are kind of immortal being that they are living gods, though Vivec did almost die by Barbas when he tricked you into using Sunrah to give him his powers back.

    Slight spoiler alert from 2003...

    Almalexia goes bugnuts, and kills Sotha Sil a few years down the line.

    Also makes a credible attempt to wax the real Nerevarine by unleashing Fabricants into Mournhold. Things do not go well from her after that.

    It's an open question if the Nerevarine killed Vivec or not. The game lets you choose to do so, but there's no concrete information which way this went in subsequent games.

    If the assault on Clockwork City by Clavicus Vile has taught us anything, it is that Baar Dau has no patience for an inattentive Vivec, and would not tolerate even a brief amount of time without him. Baar Dau tells us that Vivec continued to live, with powers waning, for a long time following the Nerevarine and the defeat of Dagoth Ur. Until the time of Vuhon, and the invention of the Ingenium, we can be certain that Vivec is alive.
    PC North America since March 2014
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say NO to Crown Crates! Don't buy what they give for free.
    I collect free, unopened, virgin Crown Crates! 229, so far!

  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well Almalexia Sotha Sil and Vivec are kind of immortal being that they are living gods, though Vivec did almost die by Barbas when he tricked you into using Sunrah to give him his powers back.

    Slight spoiler alert from 2003...

    Almalexia goes bugnuts, and kills Sotha Sil a few years down the line.

    Also makes a credible attempt to wax the real Nerevarine by unleashing Fabricants into Mournhold. Things do not go well from her after that.

    It's an open question if the Nerevarine killed Vivec or not. The game lets you choose to do so, but there's no concrete information which way this went in subsequent games.

    If the assault on Clockwork City by Clavicus Vile has taught us anything, it is that Baar Dau has no patience for an inattentive Vivec, and would not tolerate even a brief amount of time without him. Baar Dau tells us that Vivec continued to live, with powers waning, for a long time following the Nerevarine and the defeat of Dagoth Ur. Until the time of Vuhon, and the invention of the Ingenium, we can be certain that Vivec is alive.

    Yeah, that does seem the most likely outcome. Also running across Neloth on Solstheim kinda suggests that the canon Nerevarine wasn't a relentless psychopath, waxing everyone who they had the option to.
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
  • zaria
    zaria
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Rahotu wrote: »
    Yakidafi wrote: »
    Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar

    who told you that?
    You find an flute somewhere who is labled "To Maiq from his father Maiq"

    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    zaria wrote: »
    Rahotu wrote: »
    Yakidafi wrote: »
    Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar

    who told you that?
    You find an flute somewhere who is labled "To Maiq from his father Maiq"

    One of the justice system treasures?
    Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO.
Sign In or Register to comment.