Why are skill lines "hidden" now?

MakeMeUhSamich

Seriously, I don't get it. It just seems to make it even more confusing to new players. Is there an advantage to this that I'm missing?

rootimus

If anyone finds the real answer, they'll probably also discover why screwing up rune nodes was their "solution" to enchanting being the red-headed stepchild of crafting. In the mean time, I'm just going to assume someone was on drugs and had what they thought was a good idea.

MLGProPlayer

They've been hidden since Morrowind.

ZOS thought it would make the game simpler. But instead, you have people asking in every zone chat how to unlock armour skill lines since they don't know that you need to equip 3 pieces of something to unlock it.

A classic, ill-advised change to the game that nobody asked for and that doesn't actually improve the game in anyway (in fact, it makes it worse).

Nestor

This is one of the more baffling decisions that ZOS has made. I now make sure to hit every crafting station, kill a squirrel with each weapon type and wear 3 of each type of armor on every alt that comes out of the tutorial that I am going to play.

It really sucks as I am someone who likes squirrels.

Jhalin

Supposedly ZoS was afraid seeing skill lines would scare off new players

geonsocal

from boss_geo...

that's a very fair question you all have regarding the implementation of accessing skill lines with new characters since morrowind...

it's was actually a very brilliant strategy designed to...ooops, wait a minute - i got molag bal on the other line...i'll need to finish this later...

MasterSpatula

Pretty sure someone really important at ZOS thought this was a good idea, and no one with any sense thought it was worth having the fight over.

zaria

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Pretty sure someone really important at ZOS thought this was a good idea, and no one with any sense thought it was worth having the fight over.

This is pretty standard, all politic is run this way.

s7732425ub17_ESO

This is one of the worst decisions ZOS has made recently. Really no need for this at all. It has actually caused more problems!!

Reorx_Holybeard

Classic case of a solution in search of a problem. I mean, if ESO's skill tree looked like this:



(from Path of Exile) then I would understand. But with a skill tree you can mostly count on one hand it seems grossly unnecessary.

<continues to mutter something about UI discoverability...>

zaria

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

This is one of the worst decisions ZOS has made recently. Really no need for this at all. It has actually caused more problems!!

This, its ok to hide guild skills until joining, some people probably don't want TG and DB skill lines anyway.
But hiding armor skills unless you equip 3.

MLGProPlayer

zaria wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

This is one of the worst decisions ZOS has made recently. Really no need for this at all. It has actually caused more problems!!

This, its ok to hide guild skills until joining, some people probably don't want TG and DB skill lines anyway.
But hiding armor skills unless you equip 3.

Even for the ones you don't want, they're hidden behind their own tabs, completely out of the way.

Luigi_Vampa

ZOS thought that all skill lines being visable was overwhelming and confusing for new players. They actually said that during Morrowind Beta. Most of the people that I talked to gave them feedback that this change was weird and unnecessary, but they went through with it. They probably have some data, or studies or something that said new players were intimidated by too much information.

As mostly long time ESO players in the Morrowind Beta, we were not really an unbiased group for this manner of feedback. How can you give feedback as if you're a new player when you've been playing the game for years?

Vizikul

I would be happy if I could hide all those skill lines that I don't ever use like light armor, destruction and restoration staff on my stamina DK. It would save me some seconds every time I need to scroll down when I swap out skills to switch from DPS to Tank and back again. Though, my characters were created before Morrowind and there is no way I'm going to delete and recreate them.

leepalmer95

It's a stupid idea, like the hiding friendly aoes idea.

I think they just spin a wheel every patch for something to mess up the game and make it a little be worse.

Eso suffers from a very general lack of information in game.

You get a half asses tutorial that tells you to block , dodge, bash and thats it. It needs a lot more in game tutorials.

Taleof2Cities

Nestor wrote: »

This is one of the more baffling decisions that ZOS has made.

This hits the nail on the head.^

If the Community Ambassadors don't understand why it was done, well ...

Maryal

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Pretty sure someone really important at ZOS thought this was a good idea, and no one with any sense thought it was worth having the fight over.

This pretty much sums it up.
This would also explain the Morrowind sustain nerfs, as well as the cost increase poisons ... yea, pretty sad.

chris25602

I think this whole feature would be great if there were some config options buried in the settings window ie:

skills display:
default (show only unlocked)
aspirant (show locked and unlocked --not being able to actually put points in locked trees)
sadist (only show locked skills bc Zos need more useless features)

vyndral13preub18_ESO

It is fun engaging game play when you have no idea what is possible...

BlueViolet

If people ( though I don't know who ) apparently found the skills menu too cluttered or too confusing, or whatever excuse is FOTM at ZoS right now, I too think it would have been better to add a config option, as mentioned above.

I've seen new people in zone, wondering why they have no skills available, only to groan when they're told that they must equip 3 pieces of armour, or kill something with a weapon to unlock the lines.
If the people that Zenimax apparently targeted this change toward think it's idiotic to have hidden the skills, then I am not sure why they keep making these overly dumb decisions. i.e - Enchanting, also mentioned above.

I've said before, I don't understand why Zeni keep asking for feedback from players and the community, only to utterly ignore it the majority of the time.

SFDB

max_only

We told them.

WaltherCarraway

You all missed the point, here you go:

https://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkills.php

Loralai_907

It was a pretty bad idea. I know a lot of people gave feedback, both for it and against it. Apparently they decided that it was still a brilliant idea and went ahead with it. I find it annoying as a seasoned player, and thought it would be a bad idea for new players. I don't see how not knowing what options you even have helps anyone. And the whole idea about needing 3 pieces of armor to unlock the skill line was so random and not intuitive, I was against it from the start.

Ryan1704

leepalmer95 wrote: »

It's a stupid idea, like the hiding friendly aoes idea.

I think they just spin a wheel every patch for something to mess up the game and make it a little be worse.

Eso suffers from a very general lack of information in game.

You get a half asses tutorial that tells you to block , dodge, bash and thats it. It needs a lot more in game tutorials.

Hiding the friendly aoes would have been fine if they had added a toggle on/off. Still think it's good for pve but deffinately not pvp

twev

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

ZOS thought that all skill lines being visable was overwhelming and confusing for new players. They actually said that during Morrowind Beta. Most of the people that I talked to gave them feedback that this change was weird and unnecessary, but they went through with it. They probably have some data, or studies or something that said new players were intimidated by too much information.

As mostly long time ESO players in the Morrowind Beta, we were not really an unbiased group for this manner of feedback. How can you give feedback as if you're a new player when you've been playing the game for years?

As stated above many times:
Put in a switch that defaults to 'off' for first time newbs.

Turn it on, it shows the tree, and stays on.

Magdalina

I find it uber stupid myself but I'm not bothered too much because I have read patch notes and know how to unlock things(and what things I need to unlock). But new players? Wtf? I've seen heaps of new players' feedback both in zchat and on forums and overwhelming majority of them is just super confused and ends up having to ask what before was obvious. The game is already as un-transparent about game mechanics as possible, why make it WORSE? If they don't think to ask, it's literally 100% possible to level up to cp levels without even ever finding out that other armors/weapons have their own skill trees that you can unlock.

geonsocal

SFDB wrote: »

too funny

Swifigames

Two words: Role Playing

ESO is a fantasy MMO.

There are many users who love to role play their characters.
I've often wanted to be able to unlearn a certain skill line.
Whether an Altmer Sorc is capable of using a two-handed great ax or not is irrelevant if someone doesn't want their character to use them.
You're role playing a DK Orc who can only use Heavy armor and sword and shield? No problem...
Your farmer John Imperial is only for harvesting mats, blacksmithing and tanning? Covered...

I don't mind the change, not that my opinion matters to anybody per-say. It's just nice to be able to have only class skills and whatever other skill lines your role play character is going to able to use. Now we don't need to be able to unlearn certain skill lines, we only need not activate it.
I say two thumbs up & great move by ZoS.

*Edit - Changed incapable to capable.

starkerealm

Nestor wrote: »

This is one of the more baffling decisions that ZOS has made. I now make sure to hit every crafting station, kill a squirrel with each weapon type and wear 3 of each type of armor on every alt that comes out of the tutorial that I am going to play.

It really sucks as I am someone who likes squirrels.

Then pick off rabbits. Problem solved.

FoolishHuman

Swifigames wrote: »

Two words: Role Playing

ESO is a fantasy MMO.

There are many users who love to role play their characters.
I've often wanted to be able to unlearn a certain skill line.
Whether an Altmer Sorc is capable of using a two-handed great ax or not is irrelevant if someone doesn't want their character to use them.
You're role playing a DK Orc who can only use Heavy armor and sword and shield? No problem...
Your farmer John Imperial is only for harvesting mats, blacksmithing and tanning? Covered...

I don't mind the change, not that my opinion matters to anybody per-say. It's just nice to be able to have only class skills and whatever other skill lines your role play character is going to able to use. Now we don't need to be able to unlearn certain skill lines, we only need not activate it.
I say two thumbs up & great move by ZoS.

*Edit - Changed incapable to capable.

Isn't looking into your skill sheet out of character anyway? So why does it matter for RP?