Best Self-Sustaining Magicka Class?

TheJarvisMan

Hey gang! I'm fresh back to the game. My main last time I played was a Magblade which I got to roughly 260cp. I'm looking to start over this time around, clear all maps, and really take in the story. Once I hit endgame, I'd like to do some solo self-challenges (dungeons and stuff), as well as vMA. I'm looking for a magicka class that has tons of self-healing and sustain. I understand that every class has self-heals available, and I also understand that tons of people would suggest I go Stamsorc for the surge ability, but I really want to find the magicka class in the game that is the best in this regard. I'm mainly trying to decide between DK, Warden, and Templar, but I'd open to any suggestions. Thanks in advance for any and all advice/thoughts!

Asardes

Why not continue with that char then? Magicka NB still has has good sustain and self heals, even if it's not as good as it used to be. Or was on a different server or platform?

TheJarvisMan

Asardes wrote: »

Why not continue with that char then? Magicka NB still has has good sustain and self heals, even if it's not as good as it used to be. Or was on a different server or platform?

I want to start the game over and go through all the quests and areas. I'll still play my Magblade, just later on once I've gotten a fresh character back to endgame.

beetleklee

I play a MagDK and wouldn't recommend it if you want a class with good sustain. It's definitely great if there's a lot of offbalance in your group so your flame lash procs to power lash which costs no magicka, but MagDK's skills tend to cost a lot. I run food that has magicka recovery to help. Also quite a bit of DoTs to keep track. Definitely a fun class though.

theamazingx

Magdk has excellent magicka sustain with support, and solo if you build it to support itself (shock enchant frontbar, lightning wall backbar), and the heals from Power Lash and Embers are absurd. Both sorc setups do quite well with Surge alone, enough that I put off getting vigor for my stamsorc forever and zoomed through vma grinding without it.

Countcalorie

Magsorc has good sustain when buit right and magwarden has good sustain too.I would go warden as its a rather easy playstyle to master.gearing up a warden is easy to as necropotance/spinners is farmable solo and julianis/shacklebreacker is craftable.

kaithuzar

Magsorc OP

TheJarvisMan

Okay, so I've narrowed down my choices to Magicka Templar or Magicka Warden. Which of these two classes holds its own better when soloing difficult content? Templar seems to be great with all the direct heals and innate heal on two of its main attacks (jabs & Jesus beam). Warden also has direct heals, and it looks like there is a passive that cause animal attacks to heal your character every time you cast them (though I'm not sure how good this trait is). From just a math standpoint, it looks like Templar is the clear winner here, but I'd like to hear what you guys think. Thanks!

Oreyn_Bearclaw

If you are looking for a Magic class with self heals that excels in solo content, you are looking at Mageblade or mSorc. Surge is not limited to the stam sorc. Templar and warden have nice oh crap heals on demand (even DK does now), but the best way to run solo content is with passive heals. i.e. You heal while you do damage. Funnel Health (NB) and Power Surge (Sorc) are the answers you seek. These two skills are the reason that everyone says mageblade and mSorc are the easist classes for VMA.

Minno

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you are looking for a Magic class with self heals that excels in solo content, you are looking at Mageblade or mSorc. Surge is not limited to the stam sorc. Templar and warden have nice oh crap heals on demand (even DK does now), but the best way to run solo content is with passive heals. i.e. You heal while you do damage. Funnel Health (NB) and Power Surge (Sorc) are the answers you seek. These two skills are the reason that everyone says mageblade and mSorc are the easist classes for VMA.

Magplars have sweeps that heals on hit. They also can can use puryfing light that adds burst and has a strong Hot effect afterwards.

TheJarvisMan

Minno wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you are looking for a Magic class with self heals that excels in solo content, you are looking at Mageblade or mSorc. Surge is not limited to the stam sorc. Templar and warden have nice oh crap heals on demand (even DK does now), but the best way to run solo content is with passive heals. i.e. You heal while you do damage. Funnel Health (NB) and Power Surge (Sorc) are the answers you seek. These two skills are the reason that everyone says mageblade and mSorc are the easist classes for VMA.

Magplars have sweeps that heals on hit. They also can can use puryfing light that adds burst and has a strong Hot effect afterwards.

^ This. It seemed to me that Templar gets the whole added heals with damage attacks along with the burst heals. I've played Magblade quite a bit, and it seems like Templar would at least be comparable in this regard (maybe even better?). What am I missing?

Also, I'm guessing the passive trait that heals on all of Warden's animal attacks is pretty meaningless, yeah? Even on the the aoe swarm one?

Minno

jarvis440_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you are looking for a Magic class with self heals that excels in solo content, you are looking at Mageblade or mSorc. Surge is not limited to the stam sorc. Templar and warden have nice oh crap heals on demand (even DK does now), but the best way to run solo content is with passive heals. i.e. You heal while you do damage. Funnel Health (NB) and Power Surge (Sorc) are the answers you seek. These two skills are the reason that everyone says mageblade and mSorc are the easist classes for VMA.

Magplars have sweeps that heals on hit. They also can can use puryfing light that adds burst and has a strong Hot effect afterwards.

^ This. It seemed to me that Templar gets the whole added heals with damage attacks along with the burst heals. I've played Magblade quite a bit, and it seems like Templar would at least be comparable in this regard (maybe even better?). What am I missing?

Also, I'm guessing the passive trait that heals on all of Warden's animal attacks is pretty meaningless, yeah? Even on the the aoe swarm one?

They are in similar DMG brackets:
- both get 10% extra crit DMG
- both have a DMG spamming skill that heals
- both have access to some burst for PvP

Templar lacks Regen passives, but reduces their cost by a percentage while the nightblade has extra Regen. They both have an ability that returns mag but nightblade can return Stam as well. Templar has to use repentance on kills to return Stam.

It's really about how you want to play; mobility ranged DMG or stationary "protect your house" attacks with burst heals.

s7732425ub17_ESO

Magblade or Magsorc. Then Warden. Mag DK and templar are super squishy compared to everyone else.

You really, really, really want passive healing while doing damage. NB and Sorcs have this. DK healing is only on-demand, and it's very weak. Templar has this only for melee ranged, and you really want a max ranged character. Warden does have this, but the ability must be refreshed every 10 seconds.

Mag DK is not a good solo class. It relies a lot on group support to be viable due to super low self healing, low mobility, and high ability costs.

If you look at the VMA leaderboards, Sorcs and NBs have the highest average weekly and overall scores. Barely anyone uses a DK to complete the weekly. There are even fewer Wardens on the list. There are some Templars, but the scores are lower.

TheJarvisMan

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Magblade or Magsorc. Then Warden. Mag DK and templar are super squishy compared to everyone else.

You really, really, really want passive healing while doing damage. NB and Sorcs have this. DK healing is only on-demand, and it's very weak. Templar has this only for melee ranged, and you really want a max ranged character. Warden does have this, but the ability must be refreshed every 10 seconds.

Mag DK is not a good solo class. It relies a lot on group support to be viable due to super low self healing, low mobility, and high ability costs.

If you look at the VMA leaderboards, Sorcs and NBs have the highest average weekly and overall scores. Barely anyone uses a DK to complete the weekly. There are even fewer Wardens on the list. There are some Templars, but the scores are lower.

I just checked the leaderboards. The overall weekly world leader is a Nightblade followed by a Templar followed then by a Sorcerer. I didn't even see a category for Wardens.

TheJarvisMan

Minno wrote: »

jarvis440_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you are looking for a Magic class with self heals that excels in solo content, you are looking at Mageblade or mSorc. Surge is not limited to the stam sorc. Templar and warden have nice oh crap heals on demand (even DK does now), but the best way to run solo content is with passive heals. i.e. You heal while you do damage. Funnel Health (NB) and Power Surge (Sorc) are the answers you seek. These two skills are the reason that everyone says mageblade and mSorc are the easist classes for VMA.

Magplars have sweeps that heals on hit. They also can can use puryfing light that adds burst and has a strong Hot effect afterwards.

^ This. It seemed to me that Templar gets the whole added heals with damage attacks along with the burst heals. I've played Magblade quite a bit, and it seems like Templar would at least be comparable in this regard (maybe even better?). What am I missing?

Also, I'm guessing the passive trait that heals on all of Warden's animal attacks is pretty meaningless, yeah? Even on the the aoe swarm one?

They are in similar DMG brackets:
- both get 10% extra crit DMG
- both have a DMG spamming skill that heals
- both have access to some burst for PvP

Templar lacks Regen passives, but reduces their cost by a percentage while the nightblade has extra Regen. They both have an ability that returns mag but nightblade can return Stam as well. Templar has to use repentance on kills to return Stam.

It's really about how you want to play; mobility ranged DMG or stationary "protect your house" attacks with burst heals.

This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking. I think the style differs a lot more than the actual math of sustain between the two. Thanks for the insight!

DeHei

You can actually play with magicka builds on every class and able to have a easy sustainable rotation with a full damage build.

But the best should be a magicka nightblade

cpuScientist

MagDK has the best sustain by a million miles, in solo just have lighting wall and shock enchant. In groups that will be done for you. And flip whip to never ending magicka.

Septimus_Magna

Magicka sorc for sure, heavy attack pet builds has the best sustain.

cpuScientist wrote: »

MagDK has the best sustain by a million miles, in solo just have lighting wall and shock enchant. In groups that will be done for you. And flip whip to never ending magicka.

Haha, good joke mate!

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Minno wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you are looking for a Magic class with self heals that excels in solo content, you are looking at Mageblade or mSorc. Surge is not limited to the stam sorc. Templar and warden have nice oh crap heals on demand (even DK does now), but the best way to run solo content is with passive heals. i.e. You heal while you do damage. Funnel Health (NB) and Power Surge (Sorc) are the answers you seek. These two skills are the reason that everyone says mageblade and mSorc are the easist classes for VMA.

Magplars have sweeps that heals on hit. They also can can use puryfing light that adds burst and has a strong Hot effect afterwards.

Very true, I didnt really go into sweeps because I dont believe they are in the top tier for solo builds. Yes, they can heal while they damage, and they have great heals all around. The problem is that you must be in melee range for it to work, and unless you plan to slot a gap closer, they dont have great mobility. There is a reason they are clearly a step behind Sorcs and Nightblades in VMA. That said, they are certainly a viable class for just about anything.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Magicka sorc for sure, heavy attack pet builds has the best sustain.

cpuScientist wrote: »

MagDK has the best sustain by a million miles, in solo just have lighting wall and shock enchant. In groups that will be done for you. And flip whip to never ending magicka.

Haha, good joke mate!

Honestly the best sustain right now is on the stamina side of things. On the magic side, any class has great sustain with a heavy attack build. Sorcs do better then some for HA builds, but all classes sustain just fine if you do 2-3 Heavy Attacks per rotation. Unless you slot dark conversion, sorc really have nothing to help them sustain. Dark Conversion mid rotation in PVE is not a good option. DKs do have battle roar which is great for sustain, but they also tend to have higher cost class skills. They certainly do not have the "best sustain by a million miles."

mNB is frankly they only class that can DPS without heavies because of siphoning strikes. They have the best sustain for what it's worth.

Drakkdjinn

Magsorc

Oreyn_Bearclaw

OP did mention solo stuff and VMA, which is why self heals are so important. Being able to comfortably farm VMA is certainly a good goal, and there is arguably no better test of self reliance and soloing skills in PVE. You also still need the weapons for a lot of BIS builds, but this patch does make running without them much more viable.

Ease of Magic Classes to clear VMA: Sorc>Nightblade>>Templar>>Warden=DK

First, I am not talking about potential for highest score, I am talking about ease for a first time clear or mindless farming. I think that Sorc and NB are pretty darn close, but if I had to pick, sorc is a touch easier. Admittedly, I have way more hours on a sorc. Both have very similar playstyles. Both have great Ranged passive self heals (should have mentioned the ranged part in my first post, Haha). The downside to these two classes is that the weekly leaderboards require a near flawless run if you want your score to stick, which makes sense as they are the easiest clears.

I think that Templars come in third, but there is a noticeable difficulty gap (a lot of the really high Templar scores are Stamplar). They lack mobility without a gap closer, and also struggle with resources more than probably any other class. These two problems compound one another because your best resource skill requires you to stand your ground. You do have good passive heals, but you must be in Melee which diminishes the effectiveness to some degree. You will always take more damage in melee range.

I think there is a step down again, and then you are splitting hairs with DK or Warden. The nice thing about these classes is getting a score to stick is easy. Any reasonable clear will get you on the board. Warden has better survivability, DK has more damage. I prefer DK because I know the mechanics, but I would probably recommend warden over DK for a first timer. DK is perhaps the only class that almost forces you into a back bar resto staff, the other 4 can comfortably survive without one in there.

As to other solo content, I will offer this. Every time I have ever watched a solo video of someone tackling 4 man content where I was like "holy crap, someone soloed that?" It has ALWAYS been done on a magic sorc. Pet builds are great because your pets can serve as tank and healer and even a spare DPS to some degree.

LegendaryMage

You will probably want a magicka templar. I'd suggest Breton.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

LegendaryMage wrote: »

You will probably want a magicka templar. I'd suggest Breton.

Breton is a pretty poor choice for magic races these days. If you want to push damage, go with altmer. If you want to tank or heal, go Argonian. Breton is a reasonable choice for a pure healer, but that's about it.

LegendaryMage

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

You will probably want a magicka templar. I'd suggest Breton.

Breton is a pretty poor choice for magic races these days. If you want to push damage, go with altmer. If you want to tank or heal, go Argonian. Breton is a reasonable choice for a pure healer, but that's about it.

No, Breton is the perfect choice for a magicka templar solo build, even more so for PVE. Argonian is decent, High Elf is decent but not as good as Breton since most of your high damaging abilities will be pure magic damage where Altmer won't help you at all. Breton's spell resistance passive goes very well with templar's spell resistance bonus, making them a very strong opponent in pvp against other magicka characters. Especially now that defending and sharpened have been nerfed.

Merkabeh

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Magblade or Magsorc. Then Warden. Mag DK and templar are super squishy compared to everyone else.

You really, really, really want passive healing while doing damage. NB and Sorcs have this. DK healing is only on-demand, and it's very weak. Templar has this only for melee ranged, and you really want a max ranged character. Warden does have this, but the ability must be refreshed every 10 seconds.

Mag DK is not a good solo class. It relies a lot on group support to be viable due to super low self healing, low mobility, and high ability costs.

If you look at the VMA leaderboards, Sorcs and NBs have the highest average weekly and overall scores. Barely anyone uses a DK to complete the weekly. There are even fewer Wardens on the list. There are some Templars, but the scores are lower.

Lol

Burning Embers and Power Lash say otherwise. Both heal off doing damage.

I can't speak to vMA, because I've never done it, but to act like DK's don't have passive heals, that is wrong.

Not to mention, ult usage restoring all 3 resources.

Asardes

My Breton Templar sits at 23.5K spell resistance in 5/1/1. Very useful I'd say especially since you need to stay in melee range for optimum DPS. The 3% spell cost reduction is quite nice since Templar has one of the most costly spells. In end game I'd say the difference between Breton and High Elf or Dark Elf is under 2% overall DPS, you won't notice that in trials, let alone if you are running solo.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

You will probably want a magicka templar. I'd suggest Breton.

Breton is a pretty poor choice for magic races these days. If you want to push damage, go with altmer. If you want to tank or heal, go Argonian. Breton is a reasonable choice for a pure healer, but that's about it.

No, Breton is the perfect choice for a magicka templar solo build, even more so for PVE. Argonian is decent, High Elf is decent but not as good as Breton since most of your high damaging abilities will be pure magic damage where Altmer won't help you at all. Breton's spell resistance passive goes very well with templar's spell resistance bonus, making them a very strong opponent in pvp against other magicka characters. Especially now that defending and sharpened have been nerfed.

Argonians heal better, Altmers do noticeably more damage. The more damage you are capable of, the more noticeable it will be. My Magplar used to be Breton, but I switched to Altmer. I was shocked at the difference in damage. I could not tell a difference with survival or sustain. You could certainly do a lot worse than Breton for a magic build, but it is frankly in 4th place behind the two I listed and probably Dunmer. I will concede that for a solo build, the difference is going to be less noticable, but in a good raid, you will feel it. For pure PVP, I would take Argonian over breton any day of the week.

The best argument for a breton magplar is that you really dont like beast races or pointed ears.

s7732425ub17_ESO

jarvis440_ESO wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Magblade or Magsorc. Then Warden. Mag DK and templar are super squishy compared to everyone else.

You really, really, really want passive healing while doing damage. NB and Sorcs have this. DK healing is only on-demand, and it's very weak. Templar has this only for melee ranged, and you really want a max ranged character. Warden does have this, but the ability must be refreshed every 10 seconds.

Mag DK is not a good solo class. It relies a lot on group support to be viable due to super low self healing, low mobility, and high ability costs.

If you look at the VMA leaderboards, Sorcs and NBs have the highest average weekly and overall scores. Barely anyone uses a DK to complete the weekly. There are even fewer Wardens on the list. There are some Templars, but the scores are lower.

I just checked the leaderboards. The overall weekly world leader is a Nightblade followed by a Templar followed then by a Sorcerer. I didn't even see a category for Wardens.

You misunderstood what I said. I'm talking about average score. Every week, you will see 100 Sorc scores over 500k. You will see 100 NB scores over 500k. You will only see 30 Templar scores over 500k. You will only see 30 DK scores over 500k, etc.

dickeybarret

Anyone that thinks you can't use a dk as a solo class and still heal and sustain isn't dking right. Embers, lash, and let's not forget about molten to make those heavy attacks hit like trucks. See the elemental fury build as a prime example.

Minno

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

You will probably want a magicka templar. I'd suggest Breton.

Breton is a pretty poor choice for magic races these days. If you want to push damage, go with altmer. If you want to tank or heal, go Argonian. Breton is a reasonable choice for a pure healer, but that's about it.

No, Breton is the perfect choice for a magicka templar solo build, even more so for PVE. Argonian is decent, High Elf is decent but not as good as Breton since most of your high damaging abilities will be pure magic damage where Altmer won't help you at all. Breton's spell resistance passive goes very well with templar's spell resistance bonus, making them a very strong opponent in pvp against other magicka characters. Especially now that defending and sharpened have been nerfed.

Argonians heal better, Altmers do noticeably more damage. The more damage you are capable of, the more noticeable it will be. My Magplar used to be Breton, but I switched to Altmer. I was shocked at the difference in damage. I could not tell a difference with survival or sustain. You could certainly do a lot worse than Breton for a magic build, but it is frankly in 4th place behind the two I listed and probably Dunmer. I will concede that for a solo build, the difference is going to be less noticable, but in a good raid, you will feel it. For pure PVP, I would take Argonian over breton any day of the week.

The best argument for a breton magplar is that you really dont like beast races or pointed ears.

Breton combined with templars get a cost reduction similar to running seducers. Add in LA and you are at 17%.

There are benefits to running Breton, but you need damage/stats for dmg. But in PvP, Breton > high well for Templars looking for survivability, especially to help offset vampire weaknesses.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Minno wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

You will probably want a magicka templar. I'd suggest Breton.

Breton is a pretty poor choice for magic races these days. If you want to push damage, go with altmer. If you want to tank or heal, go Argonian. Breton is a reasonable choice for a pure healer, but that's about it.

No, Breton is the perfect choice for a magicka templar solo build, even more so for PVE. Argonian is decent, High Elf is decent but not as good as Breton since most of your high damaging abilities will be pure magic damage where Altmer won't help you at all. Breton's spell resistance passive goes very well with templar's spell resistance bonus, making them a very strong opponent in pvp against other magicka characters. Especially now that defending and sharpened have been nerfed.

Argonians heal better, Altmers do noticeably more damage. The more damage you are capable of, the more noticeable it will be. My Magplar used to be Breton, but I switched to Altmer. I was shocked at the difference in damage. I could not tell a difference with survival or sustain. You could certainly do a lot worse than Breton for a magic build, but it is frankly in 4th place behind the two I listed and probably Dunmer. I will concede that for a solo build, the difference is going to be less noticable, but in a good raid, you will feel it. For pure PVP, I would take Argonian over breton any day of the week.

The best argument for a breton magplar is that you really dont like beast races or pointed ears.

Breton combined with templars get a cost reduction similar to running seducers. Add in LA and you are at 17%.

There are benefits to running Breton, but you need damage/stats for dmg. But in PvP, Breton > high well for Templars looking for survivability, especially to help offset vampire weaknesses.

I certainly agree that Breton makes a much better PVP race than a PVE race.